3659 réponses à ce sujet

[jcainhaze]

Why does everyone hate origin so bad? Because it collects your info?? Have any of you actually run a process checker to see if any of it is true??? Or is this just a get mad fest cuz everyone is getting sick of DRM, PIPA, SOPA combo of bad stuff that seems like it might become a runaway train? Just curious

I use Origin. It's made me want to punch every single EA employee in the face a thousand times. But thats just because it's brand new. IMO it's already gotten alot better. I'm also glad that every game I ever buy will always be sittin there in my account waiting to be downloaded at my convenience.

I do hate the fact that eventually things like Origins and Steam mean the used game market will vanish. Eventually we will never be able to re-sale our used games and get credit towards something different. To me this is the worst aspect.

I'm not really sure that Origin is truely spying on me. If this was true they would probably be leaving themselves open to huge legal liabilities. Plus if this was true then I'm sure a group like anonymous would blast it into orbit.

Don't get me wrong though.  If EA is using Origins to spy on me then they should all go to jail.

I bought a 50" panasonic TV at Bestbuy....this doensn't give Panasonic any legal ability to bypass my front door deadbolt and rummage around my house collecting info.

Same thing with the firestone tires I bought. That doesn't give firestone the authority to rummage around the inside of my locked vehicle.

My point is that my home and my vehicle are locked property. It is illegal for anyone violate that security.

Last time I checked I still have passwords and other security measures to protect my pc. So my pc is locked property.

For some reason, at this point, corporations are allowed to bypass all those security measures. An individual would be arrested if caught for such a thing.

With the cyber world being so young most of the attention has been on locking down corporate privacy and corporate rights. Try casually spying (stealing info) on corporate databases. LOL it's a crime and you would suffer hard.

I think eventually more people will become aware of what's happening. Then probably very slowly we will see a change leaning towards protecting the privacy of consumers. Hopefully there will be big enough consequences that corporations will stay away from spyware and such. That and quit selling our private infomation.

I think a good start is to legally block companies from even asking to access, view, or collect information stored inside your pc. Whatever access is need for strictly functional purposes should be the focus....ie ORIGIN, STEAM, Windows etc. NO MORE can't play without agreeing to be spied on.

Modifié par jcainhaze, 18 janvier 2012 - 10:52 .

[Adugan]

jcainhaze wrote...

Why does everyone hate origin so bad? Because it collects your info?? Have any of you actually run a process checker to see if any of it is true??? Or is this just a get mad fest cuz everyone is getting sick of DRM, PIPA, SOPA combo of bad stuff that seems like it might become a runaway train? Just curious

Hello. You must be new here, welcome.

Modifié par Adugan, 18 janvier 2012 - 10:49 .

[Homebound]

Adugan wrote...

Gotholhorakh wrote...

casadechrisso wrote...

Also, where's EA's banhammer if you really need it? I'm slowly changing my mind and think in some cases it's REALLY needed... not that these people have an Origin library to lose anyway, but just saying... I'm getting a real headache now. If you want to fight Origin, don't ****** off your comrads in arms! Sheesh.

Well, if you put it like that, you weren't called an idiot.

I remember "you're holding your phone wrong" - certainly amounted to being treated like an idiot to me. Rather than being one.



Anyway, let's furiously paddle away from the vortex of off-topicness.

The point is that you can lose your games library - be banned from your paid-for single player games without refund because someone doesn't like your online forum posts - that's wrong, how can there even be such a stipulation? Oh well at least you can choose not to sign up, right?

The fact that you can be expected, through a video game EULA, to self-censor so you never criticise some company, is... mindboggling in itself, but at least you can choose not to sign up, right?

Well if it's put in front of your game when you try to install, wrong.
Unless you have 60 bucks to burn for a non-refundable game.


The fact that you can be expected, through a video game EULA, to sign over rights to your data and even data of other people, is... intrusive in itself, but at least you can choose not to sign up, right?

Well if it's put in front of your game when you try to install, wrong.
Unless you have 60 bucks to burn for a non-refundable game.

All of this can be updated and made worse, too - they could literally expect you to agree to anything before you can play your game, add terms and demands that weren't on the box, weren't mentioned when you handed over your cash, and which can stop you playing your bought and paid for game if you disagree. You are effectively agreeing to infinitely changeable "terms" with someone who has included intrusive privacy terms before, before you can fire up your single player game.

I don't think EA is evil or has any kind of terrible intent. This is all easy for EA to fix. They will fix it, unless people rush in their droves to endorse this sort of thing by buying it anyway.

I won't do that. I don't seek to make or persuade anyone else to do the same, but I can't endorse these sort of requirements with my hard-earned cash until some action has been taken to fix things

If people endorse it, it will be this and more in the future, and they will have only themselves to blame. They probably will, but I will vote with my conscience.

This is probably the best post with the most concise wording about why Origin is bad, and an explanation of EA in the two Origin threads combined.
+1 internets to you.

thats the thing though, people WILL rush in their droves to BUY games with Origin on it.  Everybody says they dont want Origin, but almost none of them are doing anything about it. Origin WILL get that sort of endorsement, from the people who dont want it.

[jcainhaze]

Kinda new Adugan. And thanks for the welcome unless you were being a smartarse in which case you can suck it.

Would you be so polite to highlight why origins is causing people so much hate? Just a sorta short simple bullet point? That would be great. I've been reading the thread but it's honestly huge and all over the place.

I like proof that any of these accusations are factual.  That way I know what I should be mad about if I should be mad at all.

Modifié par jcainhaze, 18 janvier 2012 - 11:00 .

[Rockworm503]

Well its 4 AM here and I'm getting tired. As it is my concerns are more heavy than just Origin (SOPA for example)
I joined MOO and I am welcome to any ideas but repeating the same blah blah others have said isn't helping anyone Hellbound.
I'm fixing to go to bed its too late to even think about it.

[Troodon80]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

It is not being used to circumvent any copy protection mechanism, so it is not a problem under the DMCA. From a technical standpoint, anyway.

Upon being asked to sign over rights to an environment's data, you choose not to put any data of yours in that environment, that has nothing to do with the DMCA or any kind of circumvention of copy protection mechanisms.

When I installed Origin I installed it on a machine with no other data on it, because that is how much data I was comfortable with sharing under the DMCA.

I didn't use a sandboxing tool, just a fresh computer and OS, partially because signing the Origin EULA with other people's data on a connected drive would have amounted to me violating the UK's Data Protection Act as it applied to those people's data but the effect is the same:

None of anyone else's business.

That's another thing, since I come under the Data Protection Act, too. I have data from companies that I have contracts with. I don't want Origin scanning them, period, whether or not it is a standard windows function. Most applications that are programmed around the .Net Framework use standard Windows functions. Most known viruses/spyware/malware use standard Windows functions. That doesn't mean they don't scan files or do any harm, though. I've seen that Origin apparently uses the Windows Indexing Service to search, and then uses TCP/IP protocols.

I dislike the ambiguity in some of the answers given. What I would like from BioWare/EA is a guarantee that none of my personal data or files, nor the data that I have about contracts, companies, and individuals is sent back to EA in any form, "accidental" or otherwise.

I do have more than one computer, but they are work related, things like Linux distros. Not gaming PCs.

I could multiboot, but that still doesn't detract from the apparent scanning.

jcainhaze wrote...

Why does everyone hate origin so bad? Because it collects your info?? Have any of you actually run a process checker to see if any of it is true???

I can't vouch for the validity of this, but it looks legit.

http://s3.amazonaws....m0i5o1_1280.jpg

Correct me if I am mistaken.

[Adugan]

jcainhaze wrote...

Kinda new Adugan. And thanks for the welcome unless you were being a smartarse in which case you can suck it.

Would you be so polite to highlight why origins is causing people so much hate? Just a sorta short simple bullet point? That would be great. I've been reading the thread but it's honestly huge and all over the place.

-Origin is 7 years old, and STILL has tons of bugs. 



-Getting banned here, or on any other EA forum means you potentially lose ALL of your Origin games in your library. Potentially forever.



-People have no choice but to download Origin for BF3, ME3, and probably future games.

Chris Priestly wrote...
3) Is Origin required for the retail versions of the game?[/b]
Origin is required for the PC versions of Mass Effect 3, both physical and digital.

-Origin allegedly spies or has spied on us in the past. 
[http://images.iplays...riginSpying.jpg]

-Origin's EULA is so shady that EA can basically do whatever they want with any information they choose, as well as change the EULA to suit their needs.
[As seen here] 

-ME3 is not available on Steam either on principle, or to divide and conquer the Steam userbase. 

Chris Priestly wrote...
4) Will ME3 be available on Steam?
During initial release Mass Effect 3 will be available on Origin and a number of other 3rd party digital retailers, but not on Steam at this time. Steam has adopted a set of restrictive terms of service which limit how developers interact with customers to deliver patches and other downloadable content.  We are intent on providing Mass Effect to players with the best possible experience no matter where they purchase or play their game, and are happy to partner with any download service that does not restrict our ability to connect directly with our consumers.

What did I miss?

Modifié par Adugan, 18 janvier 2012 - 11:24 .

[Metalrocks]

wow. just gone for a few days and already a new thread with nearly 80 pages. and what a surprise, nothing has changed. origin is still required. looks like i dint miss anything.
still no ME3 for me, even when max payne 3 has just been postponed to may. maybe it was €As idea to do postpone MP3 so that people think to get ME3 after all.
doesnt work on me €A. you still cant get my infos and my money. haha

[Bogsnot1]

Troodon80 wrote...
I can't vouch for the validity of this, but it looks legit.

http://s3.amazonaws....m0i5o1_1280.jpg

Correct me if I am mistaken.

Its not mine, so I cant say its 100% legit, but apparently, EA has changed Origin's behaviour so it no longer does scanning to that extent. I say apparently because those who "have tested it recently" also wax a little bit too lyrical about, which makes me suspect they are EA shills posing as Joe Customer.
Unfortunately, they have left the clause within the EULA that gives them the right to go along and scan your system anyway, even if it doesnt do itt at the present time. Nothing is stopping a future Origin update from doing so, or a blackhat hacker cracking EA's servers, and pushing through a modified version of the old code, so the next Origin update will resume the scanning, but will send the data off to less than honest folks, or will turn trhe persons PC into part of a zombie botnet the same way Sony's rootkit was repurposed.
As you could imagine, something like that would represent a veritable gold mine of information for those who are willing to do some coding and cracking.

[triggerhippy]

Ea and Bioware have just ensured that I will never buy another game from them for my pc OR even my Xbox just on principal alone. Origin sucks.

[Homebound]

Metalrocks wrote...

wow. just gone for a few days and already a new thread with nearly 80 pages. and what a surprise, nothing has changed. origin is still required. looks like i dint miss anything.
-snip-

no kidding.


As for me, my reasons for not wanting any games with Origin is a bit more personal. I'm under the impression that unless EA doesnt read its own ToS, the ambiguity that was and is still found in the wording is there on purpose. Also before being caught, Origin still scanned things that it shouldnt be scanning, such as mentioned above. Lastly, from personal experience, I know how damaging it can be to have private information fall into the hands of those that have no business having it. This comes from when Sony was hacked. Luckily I was not hit with creditfraud as some people did but I have learned to be more cautious since then. And from what I experienced, Origin raises a lot of redflags for me.

[jcainhaze]

Adugan, thanks. I'm not really sure what a lexware datafile is though. Do you? Is it related to lexmark hardware? I have no idea...that's all that comes to mind. Could it be related to Origin somehow? Just asking.

The EULA is pretty annoying too.

[Fredvdp]

Adugan wrote...

-Origin is brand new, and has tons of bugs.

Origin is almost seven years old. Only the name is brand new.

[Adugan]

jcainhaze wrote...

Adugan, thanks. I'm not really sure what a lexware datafile is though. Do you? Is it related to lexmark hardware? I have no idea...that's all that comes to mind. Could it be related to Origin somehow? Just asking.

The EULA is pretty annoying too.

This is what it is.


Fred, good point. Edited.

Modifié par Adugan, 18 janvier 2012 - 11:24 .

[Wittand25]

Adugan wrote...

Every publisher can change their EULAs at their own leisure. The paragraph that the EULA can be modified and that the user has from two weeks up to 30 days to accept or reject that change is standart and part of every single EULA out there. I know nobody really reads them but the Origin EULA hardly contains anything exeptional.

That image is legit and has been explained often enough (just to point out: look at the path (a Windows system folder that does not contain any personal information), what actually happens (not a single file is opened, it rather seems as if Origin is looking for folders containing games if it even does that) and the time that took place (all actions displayed in that picture took less than 0.005 seconds)). And in newer version Origin even stopped doing this, so it does not seem to be a good reason.

The banning thing is bad but a.) you need to pull quite some stunts to get even just temporäry banned and b.) allegidaly it is already worked on to stop this from happening in the future. Though I have to say that having all of your interactions with EA take place through a single account was a bad idea on their part and I really hope that they soon will come up with a way to make sure that forum, online and offline modes will be seperate and you do not loose access to sinlge player games even temporary because on a bad day you vented your anger in an chatroom.

[Gotholhorakh]

Wittand25 wrote...

Adugan wrote...

Every publisher can change their EULAs at their own leisure.

Yes, this is entirely usual, although people are rarely conscious of it.

The issue is that it is a lot of responsibility to give to the other party in an agreement, so usually requires that you trust them not to introduce unacceptable terms. Unless ongoing privacy concerns are addressed before you enter into that agreement, they are likely to be compounded horribly by ongoing EULA changes.


As for your points about what is currently implemented, that's not really the issue. I made a post in the last page to this effect so I won't repeat those points.

Troodon80 wrote...

That's another thing, since I come under the Data Protection Act, too. I have data from companies that I have contracts with. I don't want Origin scanning them, period, whether or not it is a standard windows function.

Ditto. In some cases, (laws/privacy/work contract/NDAs etc.) transmission of a list of file names would be more than bad enough, so in theory it could be a big deal for me to sign away the right for someone to collect that.

Now I don't generally have gaming stuff installed on work machines outside what's required (obviously), but I would like some sort of reassurance that I can have this thing installed in my home and that it does not involve me signing over rights to things it is not appropriate for it to look at.

At the moment for instance, if I have Origin installed on my network, and if hypothetically I were to, say, plug a disk in to that machine repair its ntfs structure, even though the files are individually encrypted I've potentially authorised someone to collect and transmit the names of tax and legal documents, file names from a software I'm working on, document names from consultancy work et cetera.

I also can't use that machine to test stuff on a "typical gaming rig" on the assumption that might have Origin installed because I'm possibly signing my life away there, too.

What I'm saying is not "I am going to do all of these stupid things tomorrow, then for an encore I'm going to stick a fork in a plug socket and see if it tingles", it's "What are we signing ourselves up for here, why not back off a little, and be unambiguous until it reads as a sane requirement? Why not actually manage the impression you're creating of intrusiveness?".

As for IP addresses, an IP address in the age of DSL IS USUALLY PERSONALLY IDENTIFIABLE INFORMATION. If I can send an ISP a letter containing that IP saying "this person is sharing my game illegally" and get contact with the individual, it's personally identifiable bloody information. C'mon, play it straight EA, we're not all morons.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 18 janvier 2012 - 11:40 .

[Wittand25]

Gotholhorakh wrote...
Yes, this is entirely usual, although people are rarely conscious of it.

The issue is that it is a lot of responsibility to give to the other party in an agreement, so usually requires that you trust them not to introduce unacceptable terms. Unless ongoing privacy concerns are addressed before you enter into that agreement, they are likely to be compounded horribly by ongoing EULA changes.

It is a good thing then that with the newest update to Origin you now can just if you want to update the client or start in offline mode if an update is available. unless I am mistaken steam does not seem to have the option to refuse a software update.
Not to mention that EA´s still has to adhere to the law regarding both the EULA and the client and that alone strongly limits what data they can collect automatically without customer input at least here in europe.

[Gabey5]

so origin is not only needed to download the game, it is need to play it offline? Are you kidding me?

[Bogsnot1]

Wittand25 wrote...
Not to mention that EA´s still has to adhere to the law regarding both the EULA and the client and that alone strongly limits what data they can collect automatically without customer input at least here in europe.

If they do, then the entire line about updating the EULA whenever they feel like it puts them in breach of the consumer protection laws in many countries.

In Australia, not only must I be given prior notice of the change, I have the legal right to refuse it, and EA has no choice but to honour my decision, and continue to provide me with service under the old EULA. They do not have the legal right to say "You have 30 days to agree, and then service will be suspended/cancelled if you do not."

[Gotholhorakh]

Wittand25 wrote...

Gotholhorakh wrote...
Yes, this is entirely usual, although people are rarely conscious of it.

The issue is that it is a lot of responsibility to give to the other party in an agreement, so usually requires that you trust them not to introduce unacceptable terms. Unless ongoing privacy concerns are addressed before you enter into that agreement, they are likely to be compounded horribly by ongoing EULA changes.

It is a good thing then that with the newest update to Origin you now can just if you want to update the client or start in offline mode if an update is available. unless I am mistaken steam does not seem to have the option to refuse a software update.

...and how does the EULA read to install that update?

Last time I used it, it was agree to the new EULA and install the update, or exit. I will believe that when I see it, but I will check. Assuming the EULA doesn't require I sign over my first-born son or anything.

Not to mention that EA´s still has to adhere to the law regarding both the EULA and the client and that alone strongly limits what data they can collect automatically without customer input at least here in europe.

User input like agreeing to a EULA that says "yeah, take everything"?

As for limits to automatic data collection? I see no clear limits on that yet. We will be able to judge the merits of "limits" on their data collection when they are more specific than "we have the right to look at everything".

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 18 janvier 2012 - 11:57 .

[_Guy_Fawkes_]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

_Guy_Fawkes_ wrote...

[...]

 

[...]
Bet you wished you never asked now eh? 

Hehe  No, actually I am glad that I did and I really do appreciate the time you put into your reply; seriously! As it surely was a long reply (not saying "too long") I decided not to quote it and hope that this is okay for you. To those who want to read this long reply being referred to, it can be found on page #63 of this thread.

So in brief the benefits to you are about the interaction with friends and the automation of receiving updates/patches; nothing to say against that, it's plausible.

What I am asking myself now is, the more distributors establish their own DD platforms with ways to communicate with friends/online acquantances, wouldn't it be easier to have one single channel of communication by which you could reach all of them, instead of having to know which game they probably might be playing at the according time instead of having to check numerous?
Yes, I do understand the intentions of those corporations, trying to bind customers to their platform. Let's take Facebook as an example: as far as I know they try to keep their information ressources a.k.a. users on their site as long as possible, by embedding things and offering certain functionalities like chat, joined listening to music etc.. I do understand that this is their business model. They could not offer it for free if there was no money in for them, which they make from selling profiles and showing advertisements.
To come to full circle regarding this point in terms of Origin, maybe also other DD platforms, which I know little about, as so far I had no need to look into them - EA will have already received money from me for the product, the game I bought. So effectively it's about making additional money off that, plus binding the customers to their platform/services (which I understand from a business perspective and under certain preconditions could even agree to).

About the ease of use receiving updates&patches: a game integrated solution could fulfill the same purpose. And it eludes me, that "we" are capable to keep the software we use up-to-date (to avoid being an easy target of exploits and alike) but when it comes to games this is supposed to pose a problem? Now if we were talking about a different OS platform like Linux, where you have a centralised, fully integrated update mechanism, where users don't really have to take care of anything (just click ok/start/install to perform the pending updates), I would agree. Windows is different, althought there are workaround tools for that like Secunia PSI and other similar tools.

Regarding DD platforms in general: wouldn't one assume that the prices for a digital download should be WAY lower than a physical copy? No DVD's to be pressed, no box to be designed and manufactured - same goes for all other content of such a physical unit one bought. Less people need to be employed, the distribution costs are incomparably lower.
And in addition to that, one could chose to buy the game in say Singapore or the UK just because of it's price being lower or something contained that would not be in there if one bought it elsewhere.

On the privacy thing: yes, I am convinced that it plays an important role where one grew up and what was/is perceived as "normal" in those countries. An example which pretty well shows what the loss of privacy means is East Germany, before the tearing down of the wall. It led to people being afraid of what they were and could be  saying to whom. But as this could be rated as going off-topic I will leave it at that, as the history of that can be found on Wikipedia. BLAST - lol - just not today, because it's shut down because of a SOPA boycott (stop online piracy act).
All in all, I guess the best the two of us could agree on, if that was one of our intentions or aims, is to acknowledge that we do disagree and respect the other's point of view. Very solomonic, huh ? 

I guess that one of the few reasons why I am still around this forum is part of letting go; letting go of Bioware and the ME3 trilogy, whose third part I have decided not to buy and play because of the strings attached to it.

However, thanks again that you took that much time to answer my questions.

P.S.: Nope, not going to scroll back and check for typos. Should I spot something horribly misguiding later on, I shall correct that.

[Baron Warlock]

Fredvdp wrote...

The main question I want answered is "What does Origin add to the Mass Effect 3 single-player experience?" If the answer is "nothing" it means you're doing it wrong.

I've been following EA and Origin for a while now, and this has to be the best criticism of it. People can disagree about the finer points of the EULA, or that Origin is apparently spyware, or how it compares with Steam, or any number of items brought up in this and other EA forums. But to me this is its biggest fundamental problem, it adds no value to the end user.

Looking at BF3, it adds nothing, zero intergration with the Battlelog, so what's the point in it? When I talk to friends who play BF3, in reference to Origin, they only tell me negatives. At least with the Battlelog some people love it. I never hear anything good about Origin.

It means EA has a problem, because it fundamentally doesn't understand the service it has entered.

Bioware potentially has a problem with being another quality developer house to be brought by EA and die a horrible death.

Modifié par Baron Warlock, 18 janvier 2012 - 11:53 .

[Fredvdp]

Gabey5 wrote...

so origin is not only needed to download the game, it is need to play it offline? Are you kidding me?

You don't need to download it through Origin. You can install it from the DVD or download it from another third party digital service.

[_Guy_Fawkes_]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Adugan wrote...

Every publisher can change their EULAs at their own leisure.

Yes, this is entirely usual, although people are rarely conscious of it.

The issue is that it is a lot of responsibility to give to the other party in an agreement, so usually requires that you trust them not to introduce unacceptable terms. Unless ongoing privacy concerns are addressed before you enter into that agreement, they are likely to be compounded horribly by ongoing EULA changes.


As for your points about what is currently implemented, that's not really the issue. I made a post in the last page to this effect so I won't repeat those points.

Troodon80 wrote...

That's another thing, since I come under the Data Protection Act, too. I have data from companies that I have contracts with. I don't want Origin scanning them, period, whether or not it is a standard windows function.

Ditto. In some cases, (laws/privacy/work contract/NDAs etc.) transmission of a list of file names would be more than bad enough, so in theory it could be a big deal for me to sign away the right for someone to collect that.

Now I don't generally have gaming stuff installed on work machines outside what's required (obviously), but I would like some sort of reassurance that I can have this thing installed in my home and that it does not involve me signing over rights to things it is not appropriate for it to look at.

At the moment for instance, if I have Origin installed on my network, and if hypothetically I were to, say, plug a disk in to that machine repair its ntfs structure, even though the files are individually encrypted I've potentially authorised someone to collect and transmit the names of tax and legal documents, file names from a software I'm working on, document names from consultancy work et cetera.

I also can't use that machine to test stuff on a "typical gaming rig" on the assumption that might have Origin installed because I'm possibly signing my life away there, too.

What I'm saying is not "I am going to do all of these stupid things tomorrow, then for an encore I'm going to stick a fork in a plug socket and see if it tingles", it's "What are we signing ourselves up for here, why not back off a little, and be unambiguous until it reads as a sane requirement? Why not actually manage the impression you're creating of intrusiveness?".

As for IP addresses, an IP address in the age of DSL IS USUALLY PERSONALLY IDENTIFIABLE INFORMATION. If I can send an ISP a letter containing that IP saying "this person is sharing my game illegally" and get contact with the individual, it's personally identifiable bloody information. C'mon, play it straight EA, we're not all morons.

Regarding the bolded bit: I hope you are seated as the collection of ones network adapter's MAC address is even worse. Just my two cents.

[Adugan]

Fredvdp wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

so origin is not only needed to download the game, it is need to play it offline? Are you kidding me?

You don't need to download it through Origin. You can install it from the DVD or download it from another third party digital service.

The final part of downloading ME3 through a DD service or off the disc is an Origin verification. So yes, you DO need Origin to install the game.