3659 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

_Guy_Fawkes_ wrote...

Regarding DD platforms in general: wouldn't one assume that the prices for a digital download should be WAY lower than a physical copy? No DVD's to be pressed, no box to be designed and manufactured - same goes for all other content of such a physical unit one bought. Less people need to be employed, the distribution costs are incomparably lower.
And in addition to that, one could chose to buy the game in say Singapore or the UK just because of it's price being lower or something contained that would not be in there if one bought it elsewhere.

One of my only major beefs with DD services is [when] they charge the same amount for a digital version as retail. Like you I feel it should always be cheaper regardless because of nothing but data instead of physical materials used. But then most of the time they are cheaper if go down the DD route so it's swings and roundabouts. I do admit I think only having Steam as a big player is detrimental to customer in sense competition makes for better prices as they try to out do each other.

However, thanks again that you took that much time to answer my questions.

Your welcome and it is refreshing and nice to see some people like yourself willing to not revert to attacks when discussing with others their views. Makes a nice change on BSN and is appreciated.

[Feanor_II]

Feanor_II wrote...

Here goes a good one for you, Mr. Priestly

1) How does Origin Work? Does it work as a Windows Service (continues background execution)?
2) Must Origin be running to execute the game? <------ Please, this is the important one


Thanks for your atention.

Just in case, I wouldn't like to miss these.

[Troodon80]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Well take comfort in the fact that all of your other rights are about 1,000 years ahead of the whole EU.

And that after you click on the "I Agree" button, most of those rights are ignored.

Not to put a dampener on sending the complaints, I think it's a good idea and may get some attention, but to any number of them EA will just say that if you don't want to download Origin and play ME3, that is the choice of the consumer, not EA's problem.

As for the Data Protection Act in the UK, reading the section on who it applies to may help. The UK Data Protection Act may not actually apply to EA since they are not based in the UK. I am assuming call/support centres are not covered since they do not actually store user data collected from Origin, nor, I am assuming, do they even process this information from Origin, either.

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Second, does it matter if patches are Origin only? Anyone who legally has the game will have to have Origin installed, and those who aquired the game through other means don't deserve the patches. If EA were to change Origin's necessity then I could understand this point, but otherwise it doesn't seem worth mentioning - if you've got ME3 on PC you'll have Origin and so you'll have access to patches.

I am going to assume you didn't see my post previously.

[Gotholhorakh]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...

To anyone that REALLY wants to try to make a difference in this issue, I would direct you here:

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

https://www.bbb.org/...int/get-started

It wouldn't take but probably a few hundred or a thousand complaints filed in quick succession to get someone's attention. I think there are some legitimate arguments to made that Origin is detrimental to the industry, the competition, and the customers and gives entirely too much power to EA while leveraging Mass Effect 3 to force this on to customers. I'm waiting for a few more bits of information about Origin before I file my own complaints so that I might file them accurately and to the strongest effect. I would urge you to consider doing the same. The worst that could happen is nothing. At best, we get a few people REALLY investigating the legal ramifications of Origin and *maybe* get EA to give Origin a chance to earn it's way onto everyone's pcs rather than trying to force it on us. If you are interested to see what points I'll be bringing up in my complaints, PM me and I'll get back to you when I'm ready to file them.

Complaints filed:

Electronic Arts (EA) and their subsidiary Bioware are now requiring that purchasers of many of their software titles install a secondary application named "Origin" in order to use their purchased software.  This software has, in past tests, been shown to scan the contents of the user's hard drive, and transmit encryted data to EA.  What is and is not being transmitted to EA is hidden from the user.  EA also reserves the "right" to share or sell this data with third parties, and to change the behavior of Origin at any time. 

EA and Bioware's representatives have been evasive and deceitful regarding the Origin requirement on future titles that are currently in the pre-order phase.  They have also been evasive and deceitful on the details of Origin's behavior on customers' systems. 

The proported fuction of Origin is to serve as a "one-stop" digital distribution system and online multiplayer login system.  However, even retail hard copies of games will require the installation of Origin, and Origin will be required even if the user is not accessing the online multiplayer or other online content. 

It is likely, based on known information, that patches, updates, and fixes for software requiring Origin will also only be available through the Origin software, and not as seperate downloadable patch files. 

This behavior by EA and Bioware place an undue burden on the customer, and an unrealistic requirement on the purchase of their products.  It is as if an appliance manufacturer were to require a key to the house of every customer who bought a microwave or washing machine, as a condition of sale. 

This is excellent. Do you mind if I file this text as a complaint under my own name as well?

I would seriously consider writing your own complaint, and not using form letters for complaints unless you have an idea there will be several thousands/tens of thousands of similar ones (enough that the numbers will be impossible to ignore).

Different complaints == separate complaints by individuals.

[johhnytrash]

I found that Origin and Steam don't work on my PC at the same time. I find that somehow... suspicious.

[Shepard the Leper]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

One of my only major beefs with DD services is [when] they charge the same amount for a digital version as retail. Like you I feel it should always be cheaper regardless because of nothing but data instead of physical materials used. But then most of the time they are cheaper if go down the DD route so it's swings and roundabouts. I do admit I think only having Steam as a big player is detrimental to customer in sense competition makes for better prices as they try to out do each other.

You might want to try GOG.com. It's the only DD platform I use. They are a DD platform only (unlike Steam and Origin); they have one price for everyone around the world (no 50 dollar = 50 euro BS); and best of all, there is no DRM (GOG.com doesn't accept DRM because they actually care about their customers).
 
Unfortunately you won't be able to buy (recent) EA games there. It are mostly old games, but I did buy the Witcher 2 (pre-order) at GOG. Perfect services imho.

[Harley_Dude]

"Steam as a big player is detrimental to customer in sense competition makes for better prices as they try to out do each other."

And yet you are fine with Origin creating a monopoly for DLC. Even the 360 and PS3 DLC is available for purchase at Amazon, Best Buy, etc. With Origin there is only one reseller of PC DLC which is anti-competitive.

[Dragoonlordz]

Daeel wrote...

I see we finally chased of that banshee dragonlords. Either way, love all the support I am seeing. Let's keep it up. Only way EA games will understand is if we show it through dollars. Even if this is a losing battle, everyone should have the self respect. No game is worth my privacy.

Incorrect, believe it or not some of us do not live inside forums like purely on BSN. Some of us have lives outside the internet we need to attend to but I am glad your thinking of me.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:16 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

One of my only major beefs with DD services is [when] they charge the same amount for a digital version as retail. Like you I feel it should always be cheaper regardless because of nothing but data instead of physical materials used. But then most of the time they are cheaper if go down the DD route so it's swings and roundabouts. I do admit I think only having Steam as a big player is detrimental to customer in sense competition makes for better prices as they try to out do each other.

You might want to try GOG.com. It's the only DD platform I use. They are a DD platform only (unlike Steam and Origin); they have one price for everyone around the world (no 50 dollar = 50 euro BS); and best of all, there is no DRM (GOG.com doesn't accept DRM because they actually care about their customers).
 
Unfortunately you won't be able to buy (recent) EA games there. It are mostly old games, but I did buy the Witcher 2 (pre-order) at GOG. Perfect services imho.

Yes I have a GoG account and use them a from time to time. They are really good especially when looking for those old classics wish are no longer sold in shops and more importantly doing it legally.

[Daeel]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Daeel wrote...

I see we finally chased of that banshee dragonlords. Either way, love all the support I am seeing. Let's keep it up. Only way EA games will understand is if we show it through dollars. Even if this is a losing battle, everyone should have the self respect. No game is worth my privacy.

Incorrect, believe it or not some of us do not live inside this forums purely on BSN. Some of us have lives outside the internet we need to attend to but I am glad your thinking of me.

I'll believe you have a life when you stop posting on almost every single page.

[Dragoonlordz]

Daeel wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Daeel wrote...

I see we finally chased of that banshee dragonlords. Either way, love all the support I am seeing. Let's keep it up. Only way EA games will understand is if we show it through dollars. Even if this is a losing battle, everyone should have the self respect. No game is worth my privacy.

Incorrect, believe it or not some of us do not live inside this forums purely on BSN. Some of us have lives outside the internet we need to attend to but I am glad your thinking of me.

I'll believe you have a life when you stop posting on almost every single page.

Petty sure I did not post in around last 5-10 pages but feel free to carry on. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:17 .

[Gotholhorakh]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Daeel wrote...

I see we finally chased of that banshee dragonlords. Either way, love all the support I am seeing. Let's keep it up. Only way EA games will understand is if we show it through dollars. Even if this is a losing battle, everyone should have the self respect. No game is worth my privacy.

Incorrect, believe it or not some of us do not live inside this forums purely on BSN. Some of us have lives outside the internet we need to attend to but I am glad your thinking of me.

Lives outside the internet? I gather you mean single player RPGs or a tabletop game, but I'm not sure which.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:20 .

[casadechrisso]

... or it's just that the body needs sleep every 48 hours (aka, collapsing over the keyboard)

[Daeel]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Daeel wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Daeel wrote...

I see we finally chased of that banshee dragonlords. Either way, love all the support I am seeing. Let's keep it up. Only way EA games will understand is if we show it through dollars. Even if this is a losing battle, everyone should have the self respect. No game is worth my privacy.

Incorrect, believe it or not some of us do not live inside this forums purely on BSN. Some of us have lives outside the internet we need to attend to but I am glad your thinking of me.

I'll believe you have a life when you stop posting on almost every single page.

Petty sure I did not post in around last 5-10 pages but feel free to carry on. 

Yes. Sleeping is not "having a life" Thank you very much. Anyways if you're back. I believe Bogsnot left you a very good post back on page 67. Do you wish to respond to it?

Modifié par Daeel, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:24 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Most of this is agreeable, but there are a couple of bits I disagree with.

Firstly, Origin's EULA since August do not allow EA to sell any data to third parties of any kind.

Second, does it matter if patches are Origin only? Anyone who legally has the game will have to have Origin installed, and those who aquired the game through other means don't deserve the patches. If EA were to change Origin's necessity then I could understand this point, but otherwise it doesn't seem worth mentioning - if you've got ME3 on PC you'll have Origin and so you'll have access to patches.

1)  They reserve the right to alter the EULA at any time.
2)  If someone has limited or troublesome connectivity, downloading manual installation files for patches and DLC is a superior method.  Also, it speaks to the strongarm tactics used by EA to force Origin on customers.

You are not wrong. But under law they all can make changes to their EULA, I'm don't just mean EA's which caused a lot of the problems (not all but quite few) but also Steams and even non cleint based services. They have done what all do and said you have 30 days to accept or decline in written form. Ofcourse this does not mean I think the end result is acceptable with the bans issue which I think stretches into even bigger issues of cross platforms and titles. For example ban on account would be acceptable to me on an MMO like ToR but stopping the playing of single player not. I think their system is just to broad and should be segregated. This is something they claimed are doing but others say is still ongoing.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:27 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Feanor_II wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

Here goes a good one for you, Mr. Priestly

1) How does Origin Work? Does it work as a Windows Service (continues background execution)?
2) Must Origin be running to execute the game? <------ Please, this is the important one


Thanks for your atention.

Just in case, I wouldn't like to miss these.

One more I think would be nice to have answer for is whether ME3 has a log in process in game on top of Origin or just Origin alone.

[taine]

Well, I bought BG1 and its expansion on Day 1.
I bought BG2 and ToB both on Day 1.
I bought NWN and its expansions on Day 1, and bought it again when my discs got damaged.
I bought KotOR on Day 1.
I bought JE on Day 1 for PC.
I bought both ME1 and ME2 for PC on Day 1.
I bought DA:O and DA II on Day 1.

I won't be buying ME3.

My question is, when will large game publishers learn that forcing consumers into installing unwanted software, and using overly-intrusive DRM schemes does not in any way bolster their sales. Assassin's Creed 2, by any measure a better game than the first in the series, and protected by a draconian DRM system that was not broken for over 6 weeks, did not outsell the first game by any great margin in spite of piracy being impossible. Actually, it sold less on PC according to vgchartz.

I'm not trying to bash anyone or any company, it just kind of bums me out. I know I won't be changing EA or Bioware's corporate policy, it just sort of feels like a waste.

[Dragoonlordz]

johhnytrash wrote...

I found that Origin and Steam don't work on my PC at the same time. I find that somehow... suspicious.

That is something wrong with your system, both can be running and working fine at same time on mine.

[Raptor2213]

Thanks for the submission.  I modified mine slightly, and submitted:

Electronic Arts (EA) and their subsidiary Bioware are now requiring that purchasers of many of their software titles install a secondary application named "Origin" in order to use their purchased software.  This software has, in past tests, been shown to scan the contents of the user's hard drive, and transmit encrypted data to EA.  What is and is not being transmitted to EA is hidden from the user.  EA also reserves the "right" to share or sell this data with third parties, and to change the behavior of Origin at any time.
Source: http://www.giantbomb...gins-eula/3616/

EA and Bioware's representatives have been evasive and deceitful regarding the Origin requirement on future titles that are currently in the pre-order phase.  They have also been evasive and deceitful on the details of Origin's behavior on customers' systems. For example, it took them until just yesterday to answer if Origin would be required for Mass Effect 3.
Source: http://social.biowar...3/index/8996121

The purported function of Origin is to serve as a "one-stop" digital distribution system and online multiplayer login system.  However, even retail hard copies of games will require the installation of Origin, and Origin will be required to be installed even if the user is not accessing the online multiplayer or other online content.
Source: http://social.biowar...3/index/8996121 (#9)

It is likely, based on known information, that patches, updates, and fixes for software requiring Origin will also only be available through the Origin software, and not as separate downloadable patch files.
Source: http://social.biowar...3/index/8996121 (#4 - partial)

This restriction and information was NOT made known to anyone pre-ordering the game until a few days ago, while pre-orders have been open for several months now, and falls under "dishonest sales practices"

This behavior by EA and Bioware also places an undue burden on the customer, and an unrealistic requirement on the purchase of their products.  It is as if an appliance manufacturer were to require access to video surveillance  to the house of every customer who bought an appliance, as a condition of sale.

I filed it under dishonest sales practices, since they took until just a few days ago to tell the millions of pre-orders about this.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...

To anyone that REALLY wants to try to make a difference in this issue, I would direct you here:

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

https://www.bbb.org/...int/get-started

It wouldn't take but probably a few hundred or a thousand complaints filed in quick succession to get someone's attention. I think there are some legitimate arguments to made that Origin is detrimental to the industry, the competition, and the customers and gives entirely too much power to EA while leveraging Mass Effect 3 to force this on to customers. I'm waiting for a few more bits of information about Origin before I file my own complaints so that I might file them accurately and to the strongest effect. I would urge you to consider doing the same. The worst that could happen is nothing. At best, we get a few people REALLY investigating the legal ramifications of Origin and *maybe* get EA to give Origin a chance to earn it's way onto everyone's pcs rather than trying to force it on us. If you are interested to see what points I'll be bringing up in my complaints, PM me and I'll get back to you when I'm ready to file them.

Complaints filed:

Electronic Arts (EA) and their subsidiary Bioware are now requiring that purchasers of many of their software titles install a secondary application named "Origin" in order to use their purchased software.  This software has, in past tests, been shown to scan the contents of the user's hard drive, and transmit encryted data to EA.  What is and is not being transmitted to EA is hidden from the user.  EA also reserves the "right" to share or sell this data with third parties, and to change the behavior of Origin at any time. 

EA and Bioware's representatives have been evasive and deceitful regarding the Origin requirement on future titles that are currently in the pre-order phase.  They have also been evasive and deceitful on the details of Origin's behavior on customers' systems. 

The proported fuction of Origin is to serve as a "one-stop" digital distribution system and online multiplayer login system.  However, even retail hard copies of games will require the installation of Origin, and Origin will be required even if the user is not accessing the online multiplayer or other online content. 

It is likely, based on known information, that patches, updates, and fixes for software requiring Origin will also only be available through the Origin software, and not as seperate downloadable patch files. 

This behavior by EA and Bioware place an undue burden on the customer, and an unrealistic requirement on the purchase of their products.  It is as if an appliance manufacturer were to require a key to the house of every customer who bought a microwave or washing machine, as a condition of sale. 

This is excellent. Do you mind if I file this text as a complaint under my own name as well?

Feel free, although as suggested by others, writing your own version would make each stand out to some degree.  At the very least, check it for errors, I copied it here before running it through a spellchecker.