3659 réponses à ce sujet

[DownyTif]

Happy to see another thread on the topic still well alive. I seriously HATE the decision and add my voice again to the people who don't give a **** about Origin and are disgusted that it is forced on us, gamers who only want to play the final chapter. Rest assured Bioware/EA that you lost a sell with me until ME3 DOES NOT require Origin for retail store copies. I won't even buy the 360 version of the game (I have 3 playthroughts of ME1+ME2 waiting) and will ensure my friends too will wait. You won't get our money.

[billy the squid]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

From a practical stand point if you choose not to accept the patches and DLC with any associated EULA then you do not accept the new terms of the EULA and are still bound by the existing terms. The problem with using a contract which contains a retention of rights clause is that the EULA is a unilateral contract and a contract of adhesion as such it is the standard terms of business which can be accepted by millions.

It becomes an issue when there are multiple variations of the same contract for 1 IP and EA has to abide by the terms of each or risk breach of contract. Hence the use of Standard terms of business which have become prevalent in the most sectors of the economy.

Well yes, a business is a selfish creature, but the concept is not unheard of in licensing, and IANAL but doesn't it generally only cover stuff you're absolutely sure you've got no intention of changing for precisely the reasons you set out?

I'd like to see it because of that - the disincentive to change their EULA later and maintain several licenses would, on the whole be no bad thing from a PR or customer point of view.

As it stands the EU and the UK benefit from the Data Protection Act, EA won't has to abide by this regardless of what its own EULA may say. The current EULA does not go into a lot of detail on the rights of individual's privacy, but I don't expect it to. The purpose is not to reitterate the provisions of the DPA, but give general terms of what it can do, but only in the scope of the legislation.

I won't type out the principles of the Data protection Act, as it is huge. But, EA has to abide by them whther they like it or not, and whether they decide to revert back to their more nebulous terms again.

Yeah tell me about it - and because you can't do business in the EU/UK without understanding Data Protection on some level, yet more documentation to read that has little to do with my job.

True. I studied company, contract and commercial law, among other topics but I would squirm at a series of terms which I could not change at a future date if the legislation is ammended or exclusions are added. If you are drafting clauses you don't want to risk cornering yourself with your own EULA. Clauses which prevent amendments to the contract tend to be more specific in the nature of their wording because of this and and don't often extend to generalised  terms as it causes legal disputes, it's a practical point more than anything.
 
For instance, if your terms are more specific and exclude somthing which could be included under the Data Protection Act, but according to the wording of the EULA is not, one can't then claim that it is allowed as it was expressly excluded. Contracts can offer better terms that the Law allows for, but can't offer terms which place the user in a detrimental position in comparison to the legislation.

It tends to be a balancing act, if you make the terms too restrictive, as soon as something comes up which is not encompased by the letter of the terms parties claim breach of contract, if they're too wide it falls foul of uncertainty principles. It has to be wide enough to allow some scope for situations which the contractor has not forseen, as unfortunately no one can forsee all eventualities.

I suppose you could use a force majeure clause to circumvent it, but it still creates problems in the commercial context.

As to the Data Protection Act it's a hefty piece of legislation and a bit of a pain to read, I've used nutshell guides and typed notes for an explaination of each of the governing principles of the DPA instead of bashing my head against a wall by trying to read the statutes. It's a bit of a pain, that the law gets into everything.

Modifié par billy the squid, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:44 .

[ObserverStatus]

DownyTif wrote...

Happy to see another thread on the topic still well alive. I seriously HATE the decision and add my voice again to the people who don't give a **** about Origin and are disgusted that it is forced on us, gamers who only want to play the final chapter. Rest assured Bioware/EA that you lost a sell with me until ME3 DOES NOT require Origin for retail store copies. I won't even buy the 360 version of the game (I have 3 playthroughts of ME1+ME2 waiting) and will ensure my friends too will wait. You won't get our money.

I definitely will, lol.  Not like my Xbox's harddrive has any data worth stealing.  Might be tempted to wait if I hear rumors of a Wii U port though.

[Stanley Woo]

A lot of spam, off-topic discussion and bickering removed. Many bans have been handed out.

[Killjoy Cutter]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

I don't quite understand what this banning business is all about... I do hope that this doesn't happen to me because I'll probably alter the coalesced.ini file to adjust the mouse and maxsmoothedframe settings. Because I needs my mouse to move right, and I need my movie-esque games to be no more than 30 frames per second. >.<

Plus I want my Shepard to retain the purple eyes she's had since ME1 - and unless you direct import from ME1 without making changes, the only way to do that is to use Gibbed. :/

Anyone know if Origin could have a problem with this sort of thing?

Unless Origin actually opens the coalesced file, there's no way it could know. And if it's opening files, it needs to be stopped.

It shouldn't surprise anyone if ME3's MP element leads to the inclusion of anti-"cheating" methods that prevent the game from running if certain files don't pass the check. 

Whether this happens through Origin, or internally to ME3, is another question.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:47 .

[fisuk]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Excellent post, fisuk. Very informative and objective (a nice change of pace in this tiring debate). I just installed Origin to play the KoA demo. I find it to act very similar to Steam and my process monitoring has found that it is only looking at the Origin directory, so far. It did find that I had DA2 registered before, so it linked to my EA account and it gave me the option to download the game (even though I have a boxed copy). I think this is a nice option.

I really have nothing to hide on my gaming rig as all my personal files are located elsewhere. So, Origin is not the devil, to me. I find it unnecessary if I wish to buy a boxed copy of the game and play offline, though. So I am not sure what EA is trying to do other then enact some DNR.

I don't think it is some shady, evil AI out to get your system files, though. If you want another content download manager, it may be a nice feature. I tend to not be so emotional over these things.

If I see something on process monitor, moving forward, I will post here.

Thank you for having the time to read it :-)

[Doodledorf]

fisuk wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

Excellent post, fisuk. Very informative and objective (a nice change of pace in this tiring debate). I just installed Origin to play the KoA demo. I find it to act very similar to Steam and my process monitoring has found that it is only looking at the Origin directory, so far. It did find that I had DA2 registered before, so it linked to my EA account and it gave me the option to download the game (even though I have a boxed copy). I think this is a nice option.

I really have nothing to hide on my gaming rig as all my personal files are located elsewhere. So, Origin is not the devil, to me. I find it unnecessary if I wish to buy a boxed copy of the game and play offline, though. So I am not sure what EA is trying to do other then enact some DNR.

I don't think it is some shady, evil AI out to get your system files, though. If you want another content download manager, it may be a nice feature. I tend to not be so emotional over these things.

If I see something on process monitor, moving forward, I will post here.

Thank you for having the time to read it :-)

Yeh it was a good post. Informative. I feel similar to Hammer on this on what he said with exception of the offline part he mentions.

So Mass Effect 3 will come with Origin then I see, this is fine to me as Skyrim also came with Steam. Not something I'm offended by. 

Used both in past and had no problems myself personally. Saw can play the single player game Mass Effect 3 if have no internet connection after activiation if wished from earlier in thread. Not saying will but just in case lose connection or internet goes down can still play. This is good news to me.

Question saw as skimmed through about does Mass Effect 3 still have like Cerberus/DLC type thing where log in inside game or is this handled now completley by Origin? Any idea when Origin will have new titles not made by EA on it? I assume all patches and DLC for Mass Effect 3 can and will be available through Origin?

Only came here to see what news is and get information.

Modifié par Doodledorf, 18 janvier 2012 - 08:22 .

[Rudy Lis]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

That is something wrong with your system, both can be running and working fine at same time on mine.

Yeah, even I can confirm that.

Doodledorf wrote...

Yeh it was a good post. Informative. I feel similar to Hammer on this on what he said.

Second that. (Or third?)

Doodledorf wrote...

Only came here to see what news is and get information.

Likewise. The only problem for me: my question still remains unanswered.
I hope you, Doodledorf, not offended by way I used your post.

[Doodledorf]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Likewise. The only problem for me: my question still remains unanswered.
I hope you, Doodledorf, not offended by way I used your post.

Ofcourse not. You are welcome to use in any way you wish. :3

What was your question?

[Frek]

Feanor_II wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

Here goes a good one for you, Mr. Priestly

1) How does Origin Work? Does it work as a Windows Service (continues background execution)?
2) Must Origin be running to execute the game? <------ Please, this is the important one


Thanks for your atention.

Just in case, I wouldn't like to miss these.

He already answered this question in the OP. See question #9. Can I uninstall Origin after activation.....etc etc.
The answer is no. You MUST have Origin installed to play either the single or multiplayer game.

[Rudy Lis]

Doodledorf wrote...

Ofcourse not. You are welcome to use in any way you wish. :3

Thanks!

Doodledorf wrote...

What was your question?

About possible regional restrictions and incompatibilities between ME3 and possible DLCs. Since I switched to DD because of bloody heap of problems with retail here. DD really “get out of jail free card” for me. It'll be a kill for me, if they decide to sell only region-locked version via DD - since I have absolutely no wish to deal with localized versions. One and only person I want to blame for bad translation is one whose mug I shave in mirror every morning.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 18 janvier 2012 - 08:12 .

[AloraKast]

I just wanted to say thank you, fisuk, for a truly wonderful post and an excellent read:

http://social.biowar...6121/76#9011170

I have many, many reservations and worries with respect to Origin and Chris's confirmation that Origin WILL be required for retail copies of ME3 - even for the single player campaign, no less - only deepens said reservations and does nothing for my dwindling faith in Bioware. *sad panda*

*sigh* I would be absolutely fabulous to get some insight into this whole mess and I think, fisuk, your post is a very good starting point for such an exachange.  Now, if only we could get those concerns addressed...

All that being said, I'd like to thank Chris and everyone else very much for providing the answers to some of our concerns thus far. I do appreciate the confirmation... even though it doesn't allay my worries.

*off to think long and hard about my ME3 CE pre-order, as I'm not holding out much hope for any positive response... not anymore, at least*

Incognito JC wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I promise you, no one here will think any differently of you regardless of your choice.

Mr. Woo, why do you take your fans and customers for granted? Not even a word of sympathy, or an attempt to persuade us to buy your game at a minimal level. I might have misunderstood your intent, but this roughly translate to, "we don't care if you buy our product or not, take it or leave it".

I know you've already addressed this in a PM to the poster Stanley, but when skimming through the thread, I have to agree with Incognito - that is the impression I get and I'm sorry to say, it doesn't leave me particularly appreciated or even reassured. I truly hope you can see this from our (or in this case, my) point of view - I WANT to support a company I've been a fan of for a long, long time, I WANT to purchase said company's product and experience the labour of love that is ME3, that a great deal of talented people have spent countless hours creating/perfecting... I truly do not understand why doing so is proving more and more difficult every single day.

[_Guy_Fawkes_]

Frek wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

Here goes a good one for you, Mr. Priestly

1) How does Origin Work? Does it work as a Windows Service (continues background execution)?
2) Must Origin be running to execute the game? <------ Please, this is the important one


Thanks for your atention.

Just in case, I wouldn't like to miss these.

He already answered this question in the OP. See question #9. Can I uninstall Origin after activation.....etc etc.
The answer is no. You MUST have Origin installed to play either the single or multiplayer game.

No. Actually #9 does not answer it, as there is a big difference in between unistalling it (i.e. removing it off your harddrive)

and

regarding his question to have it present on your harddrive but not a single element (be it a windows service process running in the background or other any other part of Origin) being present in your RAM - in other words it being active. 

[Lumikki]

One of issues here seem to be that people have different consept of what is intrusion of privacy.

1. Nothing, meaning sending ANY information is break of privacy.
2. Hardware, OS and softwares info. (Origin client)
3. Game and gameplay related info. (ME3)
4. Personal documents or info what is connected to person or information what identifies person
5. Everyting, don't care, because i have nothing to hide, I have no privacy.

Point been when we talk about break of privacy. It can have little different meaning for different people here. How ever we all have to understand that meaning of break of privacy can be different for different people. There is no right answer for it, because privacy is personal choice.

Old origin client was little more intrusive than current one, but as far I know this is the current situation.

Example for me it doesn't matter what information is send, because I believe it's my choices to make. So I consider any information send as break of privacy, when the info was send without my permission.

Now the second hand break of privacy is little different, I call it security or user issue. This means when the private information is collected by the company and connected to the company. This creates new issues.

1. Company using this information someways (development)?
2. Company sells this information to someone else (advertising)?
3. Someone steals the information from company (hacker)?
4. Account is banned? (Can't play Origin related games)
5. Origin client doesn't work, we need to reinstall it to play any Origin connected game.
6. Account security? (Hacked, lose ability play your Origin related online games)

In this case it's important to know, if we accept information collection and Origin client, what kind of risks that information can create for us, if the information is abused by someone. Usually to protect agaist this is give just minimal information, what is needed to products function. Companies usually ask more than they need.

What happens when you lose control of Origin account or Origin client doesn't work. This can create many small issues for players ability play games. You can even be situation where you are totally in mercy of EA's customer service. How good does customer service works, when this happen.

Modifié par Lumikki, 18 janvier 2012 - 08:44 .

[Finwik]

So I was in Gamestop cancelling my mass effect 3 special edition preorder, like 80 somethnig bucks. And I asked if they'd had anyone else cancel since this origin announcment and they said no. I was the only person to come back to cancel my preorder at all. For any reason.

Just thought I'd drop that in here. A real shame.

I just transferred my preorder to Diablo 3.

[craigdolphin]

AloraKast wrote...

I just wanted to say thank you, fisuk, for a truly wonderful post and an excellent read:

http://social.biowar...6121/76#9011170

Agreed. That is an excellent summary of the various objections to this decision. I hope that if Bioware/EA decide to attempt to address the situation and retrieve lost sales that they consult that post as a checklist of issues that should be considered and addressed as much as is possible.

[Doodledorf]

Finwik wrote...

So I was in Gamestop cancelling my mass effect 3 special edition preorder, like 80 somethnig bucks. And I asked if they'd had anyone else cancel since this origin announcment and they said no. I was the only person to come back to cancel my preorder at all. For any reason.

Just thought I'd drop that in here. A real shame.

I just transferred my preorder to Diablo 3.

I think in another post I just saw that someone said that Gamestop have offically run out of pre-orders fro CE because so many people were pre-ordering. I'm not trying to argue about anything, just that was mentioned in thread on here I just read.

Modifié par Doodledorf, 18 janvier 2012 - 08:40 .

[Gotholhorakh]

billy the squid wrote...
True. I studied company, contract and commercial law, among other topics but I would squirm at a series of terms which I could not change at a future date if the legislation is ammended or exclusions are added.

Oh, I don't doubt it wouldn't be advocated as the pinnacle of self-interest for EA - but I've got to admit such is not my primary concern.

Let's say I'd like to see a compromise that restored trust, so things could move on.

If you are drafting clauses you don't want to risk cornering yourself with your own EULA. Clauses which prevent amendments to the contract tend to be more specific in the nature of their wording because of this and and don't often extend to generalised  terms as it causes legal disputes, it's a practical point more than anything.
 
For instance, if your terms are more specific and exclude somthing which could be included under the Data Protection Act, but according to the wording of the EULA is not, one can't then claim that it is allowed as it was expressly excluded. Contracts can offer better terms that the Law allows for, but can't offer terms which place the user in a detrimental position in comparison to the legislation.

It tends to be a balancing act, if you make the terms too restrictive, as soon as something comes up which is not encompased by the letter of the terms parties claim breach of contract, if they're too wide it falls foul of uncertainty principles. It has to be wide enough to allow some scope for situations which the contractor has not forseen, as unfortunately no one can forsee all eventualities.

I suppose you could use a force majeure clause to circumvent it, but it still creates problems in the commercial context.

Well you've already identified an issue and proposed a solution for it, although I'm not in a position to assess it because of two things: 1) ianal and 2) the nature of unforeseen consequences, so I shall defer to your superior knowledge on the matter.

As to the Data Protection Act it's a hefty piece of legislation and a bit of a pain to read, I've used nutshell guides and typed notes for an explaination of each of the governing principles of the DPA instead of bashing my head against a wall by trying to read the statutes. It's a bit of a pain, that the law gets into everything.

I still have to return to it to check specific issues (especially since some of my work moves people's data between countries) - it seems to be quite ambiguously worded.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 18 janvier 2012 - 08:42 .

[Finwik]

Doodledorf wrote...

Finwik wrote...

So I was in Gamestop cancelling my mass effect 3 special edition preorder, like 80 somethnig bucks. And I asked if they'd had anyone else cancel since this origin announcment and they said no. I was the only person to come back to cancel my preorder at all. For any reason.

Just thought I'd drop that in here. A real shame.

I just transferred my preorder to Diablo 3.

I think in another post I just saw that someone said that Gamestop have offically run out of pre-orders fro CE because so many people were pre-ordering. I'm not trying to argue about anything, just that was mentioned in thread on here I just read.

Right? So no one is actually cancelling because of this crap they're pulling. It's terrible That's the only way that they'll cut it out.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Lumikki wrote...

One of issues here seem to be that people have different consept of what is intrusion of privacy.

1. Nothing, meaning sending ANY information is break of privacy.
2. Hardware, OS and softwares info. (Origin client)
3. Game and gameplay related info. (ME3)
4. Personal dokuments or info what is connected to person or information what identifies person
5. Everyting, don't care, because i have nothing to hide, I have no privacy.

Point been when we talk about break of privacy. It can have little different meaning for different people here. How ever we all have to understand that meaning of break of privacy can be different for different people. There is no right answer for it, because privacy is personal choice.

Old origin client was little more intrusive than current one, but as far I know this is the current situation.

Example for me it doesn't matter what information is send, because I believe it's my choices to make. So I consider any information send as break of privacy, when the info was send without my permission.

Now the second hand break of privacy is little different, I call it security or user issue. This means when the private information is collected by the company and connected to the company. This creates new issues.

1. Company using this information someways (development)?
2. Company sells this information to someone else (advertising)?
3. Someone steals the information from company (hacker)?
4. Account is banned? (Can't play Origin related games)
5. Origin client doesn't work, we need to reinstall it to play any Origin connected game.
6. Account security? (Hacked, lose ability play your Origin related online games)

In this case it's important to know, if we accept information collection, what kind of risks that information can create for us, if the information is abused by someone. Usually to protect agaist this is give just minimal information, what is needed to products function. Companies usually ask more than they need.

What happens when you lose control of Origin account or Origin client doesn't work. This can create many small issues for players ability play games. You can even be situation where you are totally in mercy of EA's customer service. How good does customer service works, when this happen.

It probably obvious by now that I fall into the catagory of "any information taken from my system without my full willing consent is a breach of privacy".  In other words, if I don't what to share the information, it's not EA's business, and making the sharing of that information a requirement for use of the product is utterly onerous. 

[Troodon80]

I know you've already addressed this in a PM to the poster Stanley, but when skimming through the thread, I have to agree with Incognito - that is the impression I get and I'm sorry to say, it doesn't leave me particularly appreciated or even reassured. I truly hope you can see this from our (or in this case, my) point of view - I WANT to support a company I've been a fan of for a long, long time, I WANT to purchase said company's product and experience the labour of love that is ME3, that a great deal of talented people have spent countless hours creating/perfecting... I truly do not understand why doing so is proving more and more difficult every single day.

I agree with this. I also want to support BioWare, I've been supporting BioWare since it was born. I want to keep supporting them.

And to be honest I don't care if Origin needs to be installed, but I do need my previous questions answered, otherwise I have no choice but to cancel my pre-order and miss out on ME3.

*Sad panda*

[Splinter Cell 108]

Finwik wrote...

So I was in Gamestop cancelling my mass effect 3 special edition preorder, like 80 somethnig bucks. And I asked if they'd had anyone else cancel since this origin announcment and they said no. I was the only person to come back to cancel my preorder at all. For any reason.

Just thought I'd drop that in here. A real shame.

I just transferred my preorder to Diablo 3.

There's two things that could be happening. People don't know or they just don't care. I don't understand why more people aren't making a mess out of this, one would think that they would've started complaining ever since BF3 became Origin exclusive. I really don't get it, is it because people don't care or because they don't know? Quite frankly I don't know which is worse. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Finwik wrote...

So I was in Gamestop cancelling my mass effect 3 special edition preorder, like 80 somethnig bucks. And I asked if they'd had anyone else cancel since this origin announcment and they said no. I was the only person to come back to cancel my preorder at all. For any reason.

Just thought I'd drop that in here. A real shame.

I just transferred my preorder to Diablo 3.

There's two things that could be happening. People don't know or they just don't care. I don't understand why more people aren't making a mess out of this, one would think that they would've started complaining ever since BF3 became Origin exclusive. I really don't get it, is it because people don't care or because they don't know? Quite frankly I don't know which is worse. 

One of the following: 

1)  They're uninformed as to the true nature of Origin.
2)  They know, but they're willing to bite the bullet because playing a game is more important than their privacy.
3)  They know, and they don't care because they're part of the Facebook / Twitter / reality television generation, and think that other people knowing the intimate details of your life is normal or even desirable. 

[Avorous]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Finwik wrote...

So I was in Gamestop cancelling my mass effect 3 special edition preorder, like 80 somethnig bucks. And I asked if they'd had anyone else cancel since this origin announcment and they said no. I was the only person to come back to cancel my preorder at all. For any reason.

Just thought I'd drop that in here. A real shame.

I just transferred my preorder to Diablo 3.

There's two things that could be happening. People don't know or they just don't care. I don't understand why more people aren't making a mess out of this, one would think that they would've started complaining ever since BF3 became Origin exclusive. I really don't get it, is it because people don't care or because they don't know? Quite frankly I don't know which is worse. 

One of the following: 

1)  They're uninformed as to the true nature of Origin.
2)  They know, but they're willing to bite the bullet because playing a game is more important than their privacy.
3)  They know, and they don't care because they're part of the Facebook / Twitter / reality television generation, and think that other people knowing the intimate details of your life is normal or even desirable. 

Or, their still gathering as much information on Origin as possible so that they can make the desicion on whether or not they should cancel their pre-order. 

At least, that's how it is in my case. I can't say the same for everyone. <_<