3659 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

fisuk wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

I think people assume that freedom to make your own choices is allways guaranteed, but that's not  case. It's like people don't really think what they do, they just go with the flow, it's like personal desire is more important than principles.

I don't know is it really that they don't care  or they just don't understand what it's all about. I ques it's little like because something doesn't really affect them self, there is no really point fight for others. That's how I see it.

I do understand the point you're making, but in this case people do have a choice: don't use Origin / don't buy ME3. It's a hard one, I know, but currently that seems to be the only one. Of course that doesn't mean we shouldn't complain and ask for a change!

I commend you for your zero tolerance on data mining, it's a respectable trait, especially in this "web 2.0 social" world. The thing is, we people usually don't care about things that don't seem to be important at the time, but when those very same things come back and bite our asses, suddenly priorities change. And this is something that is not limited to privacy issues.

Nevertheless, I'd say if EA claimed the right to mine any information they want from our machines, people would revolt... I hope.

Yeah, that's why some people are so carefull with privacy and security, because someday it can bit your own ass. So, we have learn to be carefull and give only what's needed. Some other aren't so carefull and it's they free choices to make.

Origin client and ME3 situation is just so sad, because ability play game has become resticted by peoples different views of computer privacy.

Modifié par Lumikki, 18 janvier 2012 - 10:10 .

[Wardka]

Yes. One of the main reasons I'm so against this is because I know what happens if you give them an inch in questions such as this - they start eyeing that foot you also have, and how about that yard, and before you know it they go "that'ssss a lovely mile you have there, it'd be a shame if sssomething happened to it".

It's my computer. My data. It belongs to no one else. A game is not worth giving up my privacy for.

[The King of Dust]

Not buying ME3 isn't a hard decision at all, it's just a videogame in a sea of numerous other videogames, and if everybody refused to buy it, it wouldn't take long for EA to react and remove the Origin requirement.

So before shelling out the money for that copy of ME3, think about what you, as a consumer, gain and lose if Origin becomes forced on you if you want to play any new EA game, versus what you gain and lose if it's instead an optional Digital Distribution platform only.

As far as I'm concerned, I gain nothing from Origin, and lose much, from the small amount of memory needed to install and run it all the way to some of my privacy and the ability to install and play my single-player games even if I'm stuck without an internet connection, which still happens too often. And for the record, I also refuse to purchase anything tied to Steam. Been boycotting Steam for years. It's not hard, and you don't need videogames to live. Saves a lot of money too.

[Furtled]

To reiterate what I posted in previous threads on this topic:

Personally while I'm not overjoyed at the idea of any software that pokes around my system, or the problematic wording of the EULA, I don't think that EA are not going to run off with my data to sell it to the highest bidder (although I can completely understand why some people feel differently given EAs track record); my main issue with this is having to install yet another piece of bloatware I don't want (and will never use) on my PC.

I buy retail editions of games, partly because I'm old and curmudgeonly, but mainly because I want to control what goes onto my PC and only keep what I want to use; I don't want to use Origin, I'll likely never want to use it and I don't appreciate being forced to install something utterly unnecessary on my system simply to play a game, no matter how much I love the series or the developer.

Origin does not improve my player experience, Origin will not make my Shepard faster or more godlike etc. it adds nothing to my enjoyment of the game and will simply take up hardrive space I can find far better uses for, also as mentioned before I'm old and stubborn and don't respond well to having things forced on me/being blackmailed into using software - which is effectively what it boils down to. I get why this doesn't bother other people and more power to them if that's how they feel, sure they'll enjoy the game.

I also appreciate what EA are trying to do with Origin and it's good to have more than one big option out there for digital gaming, but I'm not entirely convinced they're going about it the right way; there's a lot of stick being waved about and not a carrot in sight.

As it stands I have (very reluctantly) cancelled both my own copy of ME3 and the two CE editions I had on pre-order for my dad and the other half. On the upside EA's business practices have just saved me £150 and a weeks holiday; on the downside BioWare have just lost whatever percentage they would have seen of that cash and my Shepard will languish in her ME2 save file until an Origin free version is eventually released (if one ever is), also I need to figure out a new birthday present for my dad, which is more of a pain than any reaper invasion!

tl;dr: Thanks for the insane space opera BioWare - it was damn fun while it lasted.

Modifié par Furtled, 18 janvier 2012 - 11:06 .

[dlhotka]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...

To anyone that REALLY wants to try to make a difference in this issue, I would direct you here:

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

https://www.bbb.org/...int/get-started

It wouldn't take but probably a few hundred or a thousand complaints filed in quick succession to get someone's attention. I think there are some legitimate arguments to made that Origin is detrimental to the industry, the competition, and the customers and gives entirely too much power to EA while leveraging Mass Effect 3 to force this on to customers. I'm waiting for a few more bits of information about Origin before I file my own complaints so that I might file them accurately and to the strongest effect. I would urge you to consider doing the same. The worst that could happen is nothing. At best, we get a few people REALLY investigating the legal ramifications of Origin and *maybe* get EA to give Origin a chance to earn it's way onto everyone's pcs rather than trying to force it on us. If you are interested to see what points I'll be bringing up in my complaints, PM me and I'll get back to you when I'm ready to file them.

Complaints filed:

Electronic Arts (EA) and their subsidiary Bioware are now requiring that purchasers of many of their software titles install a secondary application named "Origin" in order to use their purchased software.  This software has, in past tests, been shown to scan the contents of the user's hard drive, and transmit encryted data to EA.  What is and is not being transmitted to EA is hidden from the user.  EA also reserves the "right" to share or sell this data with third parties, and to change the behavior of Origin at any time. 

EA and Bioware's representatives have been evasive and deceitful regarding the Origin requirement on future titles that are currently in the pre-order phase.  They have also been evasive and deceitful on the details of Origin's behavior on customers' systems. 

The proported fuction of Origin is to serve as a "one-stop" digital distribution system and online multiplayer login system.  However, even retail hard copies of games will require the installation of Origin, and Origin will be required even if the user is not accessing the online multiplayer or other online content. 

It is likely, based on known information, that patches, updates, and fixes for software requiring Origin will also only be available through the Origin software, and not as seperate downloadable patch files. 

This behavior by EA and Bioware place an undue burden on the customer, and an unrealistic requirement on the purchase of their products.  It is as if an appliance manufacturer were to require a key to the house of every customer who bought a microwave or washing machine, as a condition of sale. 

Keep in mind that the usual BBB resolution is a full refund.  In this case, since you haven't already purchased it under false terms, and then been denied a refund, they won't do anything.

And that's the unfortunate truth.  Our only option is simply to either suck it up and accept their terms or not buy the product - we don't have a 'right' to buy it after all.  Sure, we can (and should) voice our opposition to both Origin and the online-always requirements, but in the end, what we're left with is to buy it or not.

Bioware will have to do the calculations:  how many direct sales will they lose, how much piracy will this prevent (and encourage), how much will it cost to implement, what other options there are, and in the end, how much they care.

[Sethan_1]

Ah well. There's some good news in Chris' announcement, but not enough.

Thanks for getting us the info, Chris. Its too bad the news is what it is. I was really looking forward to ME3.

I'll be back in 6 months to see if anything has changed for the better, then 6 months after that.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Wardka wrote...

Yes. One of the main reasons I'm so against this is because I know what happens if you give them an inch in questions such as this - they start eyeing that foot you also have, and how about that yard, and before you know it they go "that'ssss a lovely mile you have there, it'd be a shame if sssomething happened to it".

It's my computer. My data. It belongs to no one else. A game is not worth giving up my privacy for.

Exactly, and it is, to be simple and blunt, grossly unfair of a company to demand access to that information as a condition of playing a video game.

[Rudy Lis]

Furtled wrote...

Origin will not make my Shepard faster or more godlike etc.

Oh please, don't give the mercs ideas.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dlhotka wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...

To anyone that REALLY wants to try to make a difference in this issue, I would direct you here:

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

https://www.bbb.org/...int/get-started

It wouldn't take but probably a few hundred or a thousand complaints filed in quick succession to get someone's attention. I think there are some legitimate arguments to made that Origin is detrimental to the industry, the competition, and the customers and gives entirely too much power to EA while leveraging Mass Effect 3 to force this on to customers. I'm waiting for a few more bits of information about Origin before I file my own complaints so that I might file them accurately and to the strongest effect. I would urge you to consider doing the same. The worst that could happen is nothing. At best, we get a few people REALLY investigating the legal ramifications of Origin and *maybe* get EA to give Origin a chance to earn it's way onto everyone's pcs rather than trying to force it on us. If you are interested to see what points I'll be bringing up in my complaints, PM me and I'll get back to you when I'm ready to file them.

Complaints filed:

Electronic Arts (EA) and their subsidiary Bioware are now requiring that purchasers of many of their software titles install a secondary application named "Origin" in order to use their purchased software.  This software has, in past tests, been shown to scan the contents of the user's hard drive, and transmit encryted data to EA.  What is and is not being transmitted to EA is hidden from the user.  EA also reserves the "right" to share or sell this data with third parties, and to change the behavior of Origin at any time. 

EA and Bioware's representatives have been evasive and deceitful regarding the Origin requirement on future titles that are currently in the pre-order phase.  They have also been evasive and deceitful on the details of Origin's behavior on customers' systems. 

The proported fuction of Origin is to serve as a "one-stop" digital distribution system and online multiplayer login system.  However, even retail hard copies of games will require the installation of Origin, and Origin will be required even if the user is not accessing the online multiplayer or other online content. 

It is likely, based on known information, that patches, updates, and fixes for software requiring Origin will also only be available through the Origin software, and not as seperate downloadable patch files. 

This behavior by EA and Bioware place an undue burden on the customer, and an unrealistic requirement on the purchase of their products.  It is as if an appliance manufacturer were to require a key to the house of every customer who bought a microwave or washing machine, as a condition of sale. 

Keep in mind that the usual BBB resolution is a full refund.  In this case, since you haven't already purchased it under false terms, and then been denied a refund, they won't do anything.

And that's the unfortunate truth.  Our only option is simply to either suck it up and accept their terms or not buy the product - we don't have a 'right' to buy it after all.  Sure, we can (and should) voice our opposition to both Origin and the online-always requirements, but in the end, what we're left with is to buy it or not.

Bioware will have to do the calculations:  how many direct sales will they lose, how much piracy will this prevent (and encourage), how much will it cost to implement, what other options there are, and in the end, how much they care.

I also sent the same complaint to the FTC. 

Consider the BBB complaint "priming the pump" for when the demands for refund start pouring in in March.

[craigdolphin]

The King of Dust wrote...

Not buying ME3 isn't a hard decision at all, it's just a videogame in a sea of numerous other videogames, and if everybody refused to buy it, it wouldn't take long for EA to react and remove the Origin requirement.

So before shelling out the money for that copy of ME3, think about what you, as a consumer, gain and lose if Origin becomes forced on you if you want to play any new EA game, versus what you gain and lose if it's instead an optional Digital Distribution platform only.

As far as I'm concerned, I gain nothing from Origin, and lose much, from the small amount of memory needed to install and run it all the way to some of my privacy and the ability to install and play my single-player games even if I'm stuck without an internet connection, which still happens too often. And for the record, I also refuse to purchase anything tied to Steam. Been boycotting Steam for years. It's not hard, and you don't need videogames to live. Saves a lot of money too.

Y'know, I agree with almost everything you said. And I admire your stand on Steam too.

The only thing I would disagree with you about is the choice not being difficult.

For me it is. I have participated in 2/3 of a story, and I have grown to care about the outcome and some of the characters. So I have a strong emotional reason to want to play the game, even as I have a strong intellectual reason for not wanting Origin on my computer with the current EULA situation.

Head vs Heart. That's a difficult situation to be in for many folks. And that's a part of the reason why people who post here often react angrily at being forced into having to make such a choice.

For myself, I can only reassure myself that I can vote with my wallet AND see the conclusion to the story by buying secondhand for console.

But that doesn't totally remove my disquiet. I would LIKE to buy new and support the creative devs who make the games I enjoy. I would LIKE to play the game on my preferred platform (PC). Being forced to take this third option still makes me angry.

Just not as angry as I would be if I was restricted to the binary option of buying with privacy intrusion/not playing.

[Gold Dragon]

My only real complaint about Origin is when I purchased the Mass Effect DLC Pinnacle Station.

I legally aquired the DLC, but there is no proof of purchase, no email (tho that may be MY fault in deletion or it got mis-labeled as spam, and as such, I accept), nor any sign of such purchase on my end within Origin itself (unlike Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2).

[v_Zalem]

This is just utter madness. I wonder what other nonsense is to come next from EA. I am curious about Open Origin, but there's nothing on the site that explains in detail about what it actually does. Still, I just wanna play a game without having to use a DD client be it Steam, Origin, or whatever. Good ol Games (gog.com) has the right idea IMHO about how to go about digitally distributing their games...why can't all the rest do this? It makes no sense at all. I've said it before and I'll say it again, attempting to put people in shackles and force your will on others is just going to ****** them off. *sighs* Fu(|< Origin/Steam/DRM/SecuROM/SOPA and PIPA. That is all. I must vent the rest of my rage elsewhere lest I be temp banned for some arbitrary reason.

[Furtled]

Rudy Lis wrote...
Oh please, don't give the mercs ideas.

LOL - if only. Practically wrote up the intro chapter to a flaming marketing and PR plan in the last thread that wouldn't hack off half the player base, maybe I should have used powerpoint...

[space_ranger]

I'm not sure if this was discussed in the thread so I will state what I think is the biggest problem with Origin being required to play: The fact that Origin (or any other program like it) was NOT required to play the first two games. The game had always been advertised as a trilogy. You have been allowed to play the first two parts without IT, and now when everyone is hooked on the game they decide to add new conditions for playing the final chapter. That is a betrayal of trust to put it mildly.
Personally, I will not be buying this or any other game which requires Origin to play. It's a hard choice since I love mass effect universe and it's characters, and I damn well want Bioware to prosper and keep making games (and I know that if the game flops EA would blame Bioware and not Origin for the failure).

Modifié par space_ranger, 18 janvier 2012 - 11:16 .

[Doodledorf]

Lumikki wrote...

Doodledorf wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

it's like personal desire is more important than principles.

-snip-

But we all have free will to make our own choices, what ever they are.

I'm sorry if comes across the wrong way, I am curious what is the difference in your opinion between personal desire and the principle of personal desire for more privacy? I am coming from the standpoint of even if personal desire to play games as you mentioned earlier people have different levels of how much privacy they are happy with.

On second part that I think is something everyone agree's on. I thank you for understanding that.

Okey, you understand that all this talk about Origin client is about giving every player ability play ME3?
People have different values, related privacy, but we all want to play ME3. That playing desire exist in all of us.

So, it comes what value is stronger, respect of privacy or the desire to play the game.

Now we all have free will to make choices, but people who have high value for privacy, can't play the game, because they believe principles that NO-ONE should have to give up they privacy, just to play games. So these people stand in wall and say's no to EA, we don't accept this, privacy should be everyones personal choice to make.

Some people how ever, don't value privacy so much. So small amout of lost privacy isn't issue for them. It's they choice to make and we respect it.

But need for privacy should never been issue related ability play ME3.

So, some people don't understand why others don't support this need for everyones ability play ME3. When it doesn't really hurt they choices, because they can allways play ME3. The others can't, because they principles. So, is the desire to play the game so strong that they can't support others? Delay little bit buying the game, so we all could force EA fix the issue related Origin what some people have.

So, question is do you think only for you self, because you don't have issues or do you stand with others as showing little support for they cause. Because you never know when you self could need others.

Thank you for a very respectable reply to what I considered a very reasonable question.

I will admit you have a extremely valid point and understandable take on the situation. This is why I do support the people who desire an Opt in/Opt Out ability vocally even if they may not get this till further down the line in future. The reason why only vocally I will explain in second.

I believe a creator of a product has the right to put in that package additional software, DLC and extras or removal of such. The reason why I said support only vocally on here and will not be cancelling my pre-order however is because different principles have different priorities and responses from me.

Where I would take more action on issues such as the shooting of that lady in Iran who was protesting against corruption or free tibet, even protecting endangered species (when it is possible), privacy is lower issue and lower priority to me which you eluded to at the start.

"How ever we all have to understand that meaning of break of privacy can be different for different people. There is no right answer for it, because privacy is personal choice."

This is not to say I do not have any regard on my own privacy, it is just slightly less than some people and more trust than others (I have read what it did and what does now). This impacts how much I support others, but I do still and will still support the idea of Opt In/Opt Out. But others have to respect that it is in the end my choice and others whether to leave it at verbal support and not cancelling pre-order over it etc.

I felt you showed enough respect and in reasonable way that thought you deserved a reply. Hope you don't mind.

Modifié par Doodledorf, 18 janvier 2012 - 11:25 .

[tishyw]

Here's another question, this time about Origin.
Does it automatically install when Windows is started, and if so can that function be disabled?
Thanks.

[fisuk]

The King of Dust wrote...

Not buying ME3 isn't a hard decision at all, it's just a videogame in a sea of numerous other videogames, and if everybody refused to buy it, it wouldn't take long for EA to react and remove the Origin requirement.

So before shelling out the money for that copy of ME3, think about what you, as a consumer, gain and lose if Origin becomes forced on you if you want to play any new EA game, versus what you gain and lose if it's instead an optional Digital Distribution platform only.

As far as I'm concerned, I gain nothing from Origin, and lose much, from the small amount of memory needed to install and run it all the way to some of my privacy and the ability to install and play my single-player games even if I'm stuck without an internet connection, which still happens too often. And for the record, I also refuse to purchase anything tied to Steam. Been boycotting Steam for years. It's not hard, and you don't need videogames to live. Saves a lot of money too.

It seems that was directed to me, at least in some parts? Well, I believe I did my best on my previous post to see what I gain or lose with Origin and even pointed out that I've not yet decided whether or not to give my money to EA (I haven't yet cancelled my preorder). If you'll check out that post of mine, you'll see that others have the same concerns and I share them too.

But to me, it is actually a hard decision. I love the ME universe (not yet as much I love Star Control universe, nearly so though) and I want to see what this third installation brings to the table. I also own the ME comics and the novels (with preorders for the new comic and novel). You're completely right that it is just a game, I don't need it, but I do want it.

[Lux]

tishyw wrote...

Here's another question, this time about Origin.
Does it automatically install when Windows is started, and if so can that function be disabled?
Thanks.

It won't automatically run on windows startup is you choose so.

[Doodledorf]

tishyw wrote...

Here's another question, this time about Origin.
Does it automatically install when Windows is started, and if so can that function be disabled?
Thanks.

Do you mean start when windows is started?

No, it starts when you start the game or start it yourself. There is an option I think to have it start with windows if wish but that is option can turn on or off in the client.

[Gold Dragon]

Origin can be told, Like Steam, to not start up when Windows itself starts, if that's what you mean.

[Rudy Lis]

Furtled wrote...

LOL - if only.

With Sigrun's tone: "Happy to help!"

Furtled wrote...

Practically wrote up the intro chapter to a flaming marketing and PR plan in the last thread that wouldn't hack off half the player base, maybe I should have used powerpoint...

Nice one. No powerpoint required - don't spoil your plan with it, IMHO it's beautiful as it is. 

I'd add up one point more, if you don't mind - sales. I mean real sales, Steam alike, -75% off. That could force people, who barely interested in certain title or genre and/or frightened by high pricetag, buy some game simply because it is cheap. 60 USD for CnC4 (Sims 3, FIFA)? No, never. Ever. 10? Well, more likely. 5? Hell, yeah I join Cerbe... Ahem. Gimme 4 - I'd give'em to friends too. Bought Dead space pack from Steam's last "weekend sale" this way - otherwise I woulnd't even bother. Cheap? Yes. But at least you sold me two.

[Evil_Weasel]

Im still wondering if we could just use the German Origin and select opt out with a North American copy of ME3.

Any thoughts?

Modifié par Evil_Weasel, 19 janvier 2012 - 12:08 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Probably region-locked.

[Lux]

Evil_Weasel wrote...

Im still wondering if we could just use the German Origin and select opt out with a North American copy of ME3.

Any thoughts?

Sure. As long as you play from Germany and the multiplayer part isn't revealed to be region locked with the US version only playable in the US (similar to what Blizzard did with Starcraft II). I don't think that would be the case for co-op but there's no technical information on how multiplayer will work as of this moment.

[Rudy Lis]

According to current situation with my Origin (as it seems there only couple of us who have it anyway:)), Origin, as well as it's stock will be region-based. Although I switched Origin's own settings back to English, Store page is shown on local language, not English. My DA2 though was downloaded as US version and is US version, according to labels in launcher and inside game itself.
So the one and only way to get German Origin - be in Germany, IMHO.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 19 janvier 2012 - 12:17 .