3659 réponses à ce sujet

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Furtled wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...
5) Is there an opt in or opt out clause for data collection?
Users will be allowed to opt-out of Mass Effect 3 data collection from inside the game.

Would it be possible to get some clarity on this one please? It's entirely possible I'm reading that wrong/being overly sensitive, but that leaves a lot of scope for Origin to scan and transmit before any user action is taken/choices are made; never mind my personal feelings on data collection not being opt-in by default.

Thank you
(p.s. if you've already responded and I've missed it - sorry!)

Origin collects data, ME3 does not if you opt out, I don't believe at this time Origin has an opt out.

[Travie]

You can put me firmly on the 'not believe' side of that argument. The Origin client was doing exactly what the original EULA implied that it had the power to do.

[Erode_The_Soul]

Stanley Woo wrote...

...SNIP...

personally I still don't want the junk on my PC, they haven't covinced me of jack [Sparrow]

[No swearing, please.]

This mod edit made me giggle:lol:

[Sundance31us]

Merkar wrote...
No. There's always time to improve. I'd very much like to see an opt-out in Origin by default and an opt-in if users choose so, similar to Steam

For clarification purposes; the only information you can opt-out of sharing on Steam is "personally identifiable information".

Valve Privacy Policy
http://www.valvesoft...om/privacy.html

Collection and Use of Information

By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, as defined below. Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Valve shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.

"Aggregate information" is information that describes the habits, usage patterns, and demographics of users as a group but does not describe or reveal the identity of any particular user.

"Individual information" is information about a user that is presented in a form distinguishable from information relating to other users but not in a form that personally identifies any user or enables the recipient to communicate directly with any user unless agreed to by the user in advance of such communication. This information may be used to improve Valve's products and online sites, for internal marketing studies, or simply to collect demographic information about Valve's users.

You cannot opt-out of sharing "aggregate information".

The paragraph regarding "individual information" does not include an opt-out of sharing information clause; the "individual information" WILL be collected, but the "recipient" of this information cannot contact you unless you agree to "such communication" in advance.

Valve may use customer contact information provided by users to send information about Valve, including news about product updates, contests, events, and other promotional materials, but only if the users agree to receive such communications...

You may opt-out of sharing "customer contact information" with Steam, but you cannot opt-out of sharing "aggregate" and "individual" information.

[Trakarg]

No longer buying mass effect 3. It's been fun, guys.

[Mitchumas]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

...SNIP...

personally I still don't want the junk on my PC, they haven't covinced me of jack [Sparrow]

[No swearing, please.]

This mod edit made me giggle:lol:


Very clever edit... Made me have a chuckle... I'll use that for now on...

[Kid Buu]

EA had to have seen this kind of reaction

[Rudy Lis]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

This mod edit made me giggle:lol:

"The Vindication Angel Curse Buster BC".

[Doodledorf]

Sundance31us wrote...

-snip-

That's interesting, thanks for pointing it out. It is good information.

I use Steam and Origin, but never realised that about Steam even though I have no intention to stop using either.

Modifié par Doodledorf, 19 janvier 2012 - 04:41 .

[Bostur]

Doodledorf wrote...

Merkar wrote...

kirvingtwo wrote...

I don't believe the guy is legit. Why would he say that Origin isn't required for Mass Effect 3?

He's referring to the Open Origin project he's been working on but hasn't been released yet.

EDIT: He also wasn't aware Origin was necessary with ME3 up to that moment... Now he knows. XD

Here's more information from the same dev:

I'm aware of that info, there's quite a few
videos on youtube showing what Origin was doing at the time, I wasn't
with EA back then but when I checked Origin using my own software it did
look like a bug with the Windows API (FindFirstFileEx) that caused it
to enumerate the entire filesystem instead of Origin's own folders.

Most of it was media hipe around that stupid bug, The media
completely replied upon Process Monitor (and the explanations of
unqualified users) which doesn't show the API used or the parameters
(that showed it was a bug), there was also zero scree-shots or qualified
analysis of Origin ever uploading anything and you'll notice none of
the big names of the tech world even bothered to mention or run a story
(Mike Russinovich, Paul Thurrott, ZdNet, Neowin etc..) which says
something about what they discovered when looking into it.

Having read more of his posts including in the latter part of the EULA thread, he certainly seems to have the (technical knowledge) to know what he is talking about. People have verified on here from what I read that it does not search outside Origin folders (anymore) which backs up his statement. 

Whether of not people believe him is an individuals choice to make and they have the right to do so.

I also believe it is a companies right whether to supply their own products with software, DLC and extras or not. But I do support verbally a Opt In/Opt Out function within the client even if I have no intention of using it myself. I will not be cancelling my pre-order for reasons stated here.

It does seem like it was a trivial bug that caused Origin to enumerate (scan) through large parts of the filesystem. I think it's a shame that there was so much focus on that particular glitch, because there are other important issues with the concept of Origin and digital downloads in general. The issue about ownership and access rights is a concern. When EA reserves the right to control the games we buy it's very risky to make a purchase. Especially since EA seems intent to make full use of that power unlike Steam.

It was worrying that Origin scanned through the file system like it used to, but that 'feature' was blown out of proportions.

[Kai Hohiro]

Curious how many people complaining about this use Google, Facebook, Amazon, Steam, XBL, PSN....

[Killjoy Cutter]

Funny how at least some of us use none or little of that...

Sure as hell not using Facebook.

[Lux]

Sundance31us wrote...

For clarification purposes; the only information you can opt-out of sharing on Steam is "personally identifiable information".

Yes, and you can also opt-out from the hardware survey.

Steam conducts a monthly survey to collect data about what kinds of computer hardware and software our customers are using.
Participation in the survey is optional, and anonymous. The information gathered is incredibly helpful to us as we make
decisions about what kinds of technology investments to make and products to offer.

Sundance31us wrote...
You may opt-out of sharing "customer contact information" with Steam,
but you cannot opt-out of sharing "aggregate" and "individual"
information.

No EULA is that detailed on the specifics, is it? The Steam reference that I've indicated in my posts comes from my experience with them.

I need to opt-in with providing personal information if I want to buy from them but can opt-out from them sending me promo emails (which EA also does). However, I can also choose to opt in or out of their hardware survey which is a main gathering point for information on their users, and a pretty transparent data gathering mechanism since everyone can see the results. It's so clear and user-friendly that I chose to opt-in the survey.

There's that and the number of users playing at a single moment (and all statistical data coming from it) which is easily seen by anyone who uses the service . That's also transparent and I'm pretty sure that's all part of the "aggregate" and "individual" information they take from users. How about that? I'm actually made aware of what they do with the information they take from me. Why EA needs to do this in secret?

There's also this article from when this all started wich also seems to indicate a more benign form of data gathering from Steam (apart from EA's EULA issue that got changed):

This week, people finally got around to reading the end user license agreement for EA's download service Origin, and found that it allowed EA to collect personal and usage data for marketing purposes. This contrasts with Steam's EULA, which allows Valve to collect and store information related to Steam and other Valve software only.

Steam is a lot smarter with their data gathering. They do it in such a way that users don't mind it because of the much bettter communication they have with their audience.

Modifié par Merkar, 19 janvier 2012 - 05:33 .

[Doodledorf]

Bostur wrote...

The issue about ownership and access rights is a concern. When EA reserves the right to control the games we buy it's very risky to make a purchase. Especially since EA seems intent to make full use of that power unlike Steam.

That aspect is still a concern to me in general but I consider that an EA thing rather than Origin thing, I know the irony of the software was made by EA aspect. But in general I mean I hold nothing against Origin for what you just mentioned.

That element or concern would be there regardless of if bought ME3, it was there when bought ME2 and many other EA titles. To me it is a general concern that won't have any effect with ME3 for myself because I was under the same situation since day bought first EA game and I have never been banned over these years.

I do know that some EA rep or something on RPS told people who do get banned to ring a number he supplied and would resolve it that way when or if cases occur. What came of that I do not know.

But it seems bit late to really hold that too much against them on that aspect (imho) regarding if buy ME3 because you had it when bought ME2 and almost everyone I see here has bought it.

Modifié par Doodledorf, 19 janvier 2012 - 05:36 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

Kai Hohiro wrote...

Curious how many people complaining about this use Google, Facebook, Amazon, Steam, XBL, PSN....

You people sure like to bring that up, especially when you know nothing about who is posting. 

[Wittand25]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Kai Hohiro wrote...

Curious how many people complaining about this use Google, Facebook, Amazon, Steam, XBL, PSN....

You people sure like to bring that up, especially when you know nothing about who is posting. 

It is enough to see the same people who complain about the Origin EULA having either ME2 or DA2 in their Bioware profile really (hint all the phrases that are considert problematic in the Origin EULA are in the EULA of those two games as well).

[Lux]

Wittand25 wrote...

It is enough to see the same people who complain about the Origin EULA having either ME2 or DA2 in their Bioware profile really (hint all the phrases that are considert problematic in the Origin EULA are in the EULA of those two games as well).

ME2 I got it from Steam and it uses Steam's DRM.
DA2 I got it from Origin but it does not require Origin to play but I have since uninstalled Origin and DA2.

With BF3, EA has introduced the need to have Origin running in the background ALL THE TIME (which is a step back from user friendliness IMO) and the same policy has been adopted for ME3.

[Bostur]

Doodledorf wrote...

Bostur wrote...

The issue about ownership and access rights is a concern. When EA reserves the right to control the games we buy it's very risky to make a purchase. Especially since EA seems intent to make full use of that power unlike Steam.

That aspect is still a concern to me in general but I consider that an EA thing rather than Origin thing, I know the irony of the software was made by EA aspect. But in general I mean I hold nothing against Origin for what you just mentioned.

That element or concern would be there regardless of if bought ME3, it was there when bought ME2 and many other EA titles. To me it is a general concern that won't have any effect with ME3 for myself because I was under the same situation since day bought first EA game and I have never been banned over these years.

I do know that some EA rep or something on RPS told people who do get banned to ring a number he supplied and would resolve it that way when or if cases occur. What came of that I do not know.

But it seems bit late to really hold that too much against them on that aspect (imho) regarding if buy ME3 because you had it when bought ME2 and almost everyone I see here has bought it.

It's an issue with online DRM in general and not exclusive to Origin. But the way Origin is required for any EA title even 'physical' ones increases the risk. And there is no way to opt out of it. EA seems to be quite serious about the limited access to their games. At first they wanted to take away ownership simply if people were inactive for 2 years, later they changed that, but they still reserve the right to revoke user rights at their discretion.
I've never been banned either but $60 is a lot of money to pay without any insurance that the game will continue to work.

I could be mistaken, but I don't think ME2 requires online activation, except for DLCs. I have several unregistered BW and EA games that works fine.

[Doodledorf]

Bostur wrote...

Doodledorf wrote...

Bostur wrote...

The issue about ownership and access rights is a concern. When EA reserves the right to control the games we buy it's very risky to make a purchase. Especially since EA seems intent to make full use of that power unlike Steam.

That aspect is still a concern to me in general but I consider that an EA thing rather than Origin thing, I know the irony of the software was made by EA aspect. But in general I mean I hold nothing against Origin for what you just mentioned.

That element or concern would be there regardless of if bought ME3, it was there when bought ME2 and many other EA titles. To me it is a general concern that won't have any effect with ME3 for myself because I was under the same situation since day bought first EA game and I have never been banned over these years.

I do know that some EA rep or something on RPS told people who do get banned to ring a number he supplied and would resolve it that way when or if cases occur. What came of that I do not know.

But it seems bit late to really hold that too much against them on that aspect (imho) regarding if buy ME3 because you had it when bought ME2 and almost everyone I see here has bought it.

It's an issue with online DRM in general and not exclusive to Origin. But the way Origin is required for any EA title even 'physical' ones increases the risk. And there is no way to opt out of it. EA seems to be quite serious about the limited access to their games. At first they wanted to take away ownership simply if people were inactive for 2 years, later they changed that, but they still reserve the right to revoke user rights at their discretion.
I've never been banned either but $60 is a lot of money to pay without any insurance that the game will continue to work.

I could be mistaken, but I don't think ME2 requires online activation, except for DLCs. I have several unregistered BW and EA games that works fine.

Granted I mean in terms of the EULA still existed in that form, same for DA2. I thought ME2 did require online activation through Cerberus initially? But relied on disc checks after if retail. I could be wrong however since my copy came from Origin.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Wittand25 wrote...

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Kai Hohiro wrote...

Curious how many people complaining about this use Google, Facebook, Amazon, Steam, XBL, PSN....

You people sure like to bring that up, especially when you know nothing about who is posting. 

It is enough to see the same people who complain about the Origin EULA having either ME2 or DA2 in their Bioware profile really (hint all the phrases that are considert problematic in the Origin EULA are in the EULA of those two games as well).

If I recall correctly, it doesn't say which platform did the person get the game for. I didn't get it for PC and besides I don't remember ME2 being Origin exclusive either. DA2 was also available on Steam for a short time, I really don't think they could've taken the game away from those that had already bought it even when they pulled DA2 from Steam. 

[Bostur]

As a followup on my recent posts, I'd like to ask Chris the following:

What is the EA/BW policy on banning users from playing ME3 in single-player mode?

It's quite obvious that it can be done because of Origin, and according to rock-paper-shotgun this has happened in other games based on questionable criteria.
http://www.rockpaper...update-edition/

It's quite possible that Rock-Paper-Shotgun has got it's facts wrong, it would be nice to hear something official in this regard. The fact that it is possible for EA/BW to ban people from a single player game does raise some concerns from a consumer perspective.

Modifié par Bostur, 19 janvier 2012 - 07:55 .

[Metalrocks]

Bostur wrote...

As a followup on my recent posts, I'd like to ask Chris the following:

What is the EA/BW policy on banning users from playing ME3 in single-player mode?

It's quite obvious that it can be done because of Origin, and according to rock-paper-shotgun this has happened in other games based on questionable criteria.
http://www.rockpaper...update-edition/

It's quite possible that Rock-Paper-Shotgun has got it's facts wrong, it would be nice to hear something official in this regard. The fact that it is possible for EA/BW to ban people from a single player game does raise some concerns from a consumer perspective.

true or not, but €A is pretty well known for mistreating customers like this. thats why i stay far away from origin and any games with a €A logo on it.

[Wittand25]

Merkar wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

It is enough to see the same people who complain about the Origin EULA having either ME2 or DA2 in their Bioware profile really (hint all the phrases that are considert problematic in the Origin EULA are in the EULA of those two games as well).

ME2 I got it from Steam and it uses Steam's DRM.
DA2 I got it from Origin but it does not require Origin to play but I have since uninstalled Origin and DA2.

With BF3, EA has introduced the need to have Origin running in the background ALL THE TIME (which is a step back from user friendliness IMO) and the same policy has been adopted for ME3.

That is not the point.
I bought both games as boxed copies. The EULA(s) of both games include all the phrases that now are given as a reason why the Origin EULA is supposed to be unacceptable.
So anyone who had bought and installed those two games either has not read an EULA in the past and likely does not do it today either or did not see any problem with it until the games vanished from Steam.

[Bostur]

Wittand25 wrote...

Merkar wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

It is enough to see the same people who complain about the Origin EULA having either ME2 or DA2 in their Bioware profile really (hint all the phrases that are considert problematic in the Origin EULA are in the EULA of those two games as well).

ME2 I got it from Steam and it uses Steam's DRM.
DA2 I got it from Origin but it does not require Origin to play but I have since uninstalled Origin and DA2.

With BF3, EA has introduced the need to have Origin running in the background ALL THE TIME (which is a step back from user friendliness IMO) and the same policy has been adopted for ME3.

That is not the point.
I bought both games as boxed copies. The EULA(s) of both games include all the phrases that now are given as a reason why the Origin EULA is supposed to be unacceptable.
So anyone who had bought and installed those two games either has not read an EULA in the past and likely does not do it today either or did not see any problem with it until the games vanished from Steam.

There are major parts of EULA's that I normally disregard because I don't believe they are valid where I live. If the companies involved disagree with that they can choose to take it to court in my country. It's more of a problem for me if a company can enforce their EULA through technical means, which EA can with Origin. I don't have the ressources to make a court case in a foreign country, and I probably wouldn't want to for something as trivial as a video game.

For instance if EA changes their terms to something I disagree with, I may feel forced to accept it anyway in order not lose access to the games I purchased. Because of the technical means that EA is getting through Origin, we are being put in a tight spot as consumers.

[Lux]

Wittand25 wrote...

That is not the point.
I bought both games as boxed copies. The EULA(s) of both games include all the phrases that now are given as a reason why the Origin EULA is supposed to be unacceptable.
So anyone who had bought and installed those two games either has not read an EULA in the past and likely does not do it today either or did not see any problem with it until the games vanished from Steam.

I don't think there's that many people pausing to read any EULA when there's a brand new game to be played. The media did a service to players (as exaggerated as that may have been) in alerting for the problem, which in turn made EA take action.

Origin's "glitch" in reading more info than it should just added to a perennial sentiment of suspicion towards EA. The fact is that they usually cross-correct when there's enough complaints going their way; so people assume the worst from them. Wouldn't it be nice for EA, on their own, to come up with something that's ALSO good for players for a change?

I'm not seeing that with Origin. So far, it has been all stick and no carrot. And a lot more stick happens to people like me who live outside normal markets. Steam has no problem offering me most of their catalogue but I can't buy squat from EA unless I creatively go through some hoops in order to buy from them.