3659 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

The Harley Dude wrote...

Releasing the source code doesn't satisify my privacy concern because whatever scans performed are most likelly done with Microsoft Windows APIs.

Of course it uses Windows APIs: it's Windows software. And the source code would tell you exactly what functions were being called and with what parameters. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:57 .

[Harley_Dude]

Will it provide a log of what it collected and passed to EA? Of course not.

[Bogsnot1]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Doesn't silicon container block all access to the internet for an application not just restricting the folders accessed? It have been a very, very long time since I used VM so genuine question.

As I stated in this post;

Stanley, please take the time to read through my sigs link to Wikipedias very simple explanation of what sandboxing does, and how it is used for legitimate, legal purposes, and has absolutely sod all to do with piracy and copyright circumvention.

[Pupuppu]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Pupuppu wrote...

chance52 wrote...

Yes but I am speaking in very generic terms because to get too specific you get banned.  Plus you still need to sign in before going offline.

You can block origin.exe after installation in you vendor specifc firewall after game activation to be permanently offline.

And if the DRM is as I described in option ( on other page then you are circumventing the DRM by doing that.

So if I uninstall my network driver or remove my network card or unplug my network cable or do not pay my telephone bill after game activation and would play ME3 (which I don't as long as it requires Origin) I'm circumventing Origins DRM? Ok.

[Harley_Dude]

Will I be able to compile and run the open source version? I'm guessing no.

[didymos1120]

The Harley Dude wrote...

Will it provide a log of what it collected and passed to EA? Of course not.

The source code would show you exactly what it was looking at and what it was sending, genius.  Otherwise, the program wouldn't be able to do any of that. That's how programs work: you have to tell the computer exactly what you want it to do.

[Dragoonlordz]

Pupuppu wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Pupuppu wrote...

chance52 wrote...

Yes but I am speaking in very generic terms because to get too specific you get banned.  Plus you still need to sign in before going offline.

You can block origin.exe after installation in you vendor specifc firewall after game activation to be permanently offline.

And if the DRM is as I described in option ( on other page then you are circumventing the DRM by doing that.

So if I uninstall my network driver or remove my network card or unplug my network cable or do not pay my telephone bill after game activation and would play ME3 (which I don't as long as it requires Origin) I'm circumventing Origins DRM? Ok.

I think Chris said that requires one time activation, that he also stated does require internet connection for multiplayer but he did not say no internet connection at all. This to me does not mean does not require an internet connection ever again for purpose of sometimes sending scanned data about its own game files and client files. So yes. Activation could be one of the two DRM's it could use.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 20 janvier 2012 - 04:11 .

[didymos1120]

The Harley Dude wrote...

Will I be able to compile and run the open source version? I'm guessing no.

If you have the right dev tools installed and know how they work, then yes.  That's what source code is for: compilation.

[Bogsnot1]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Pupuppu wrote...

chance52 wrote...

Yes but I am speaking in very generic terms because to get too specific you get banned.  Plus you still need to sign in before going offline.

You can block origin.exe after installation in you vendor specifc firewall after game activation to be permanently offline.

And if the DRM is as I described in option ( on other page then you are circumventing the DRM by doing that but not option (a). I do not know which they use. But I believe it may be ( not (a). Could even be both.

You are not circumventing DRM. As Chris has stated, after the single, required activation, Origin is no longer needed, therefore blocking it is not circumventing DRM, as the DRM has already done its job.
If Origin complains about being blocked, then it will prove that we have been lied to by EA (not Chris, he is only passing on what he was told), there is no offline mode, and Origin is still transmitting unknown data to EA's servers.

So, providing EA is being honest with us, there is nothing bad about using firewalls to stop Origin from communicating with any servers once you have done the required authorisation, nor to use a sandbox to ensure it doesnt read/write outside of its own program and game folders.

[Pupuppu]

The Harley Dude wrote...

Will I be able to compile and run the open source version? I'm guessing no.

It will be released as GPLed software so yes.

[Dragoonlordz]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Origin is no longer needed.

I don't remember him saying that.

He said (one time activation and for multiplayer) not (requires one time activation then no internet connection needed after).

In fact he said Origin is needed. "Yes, Origin is required for all PC editions of Mass Effect 3, physical or digital."

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 20 janvier 2012 - 04:20 .

[billy the squid]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Pupuppu wrote...

chance52 wrote...

Yes but I am speaking in very generic terms because to get too specific you get banned.  Plus you still need to sign in before going offline.

You can block origin.exe after installation in you vendor specifc firewall after game activation to be permanently offline.

And if the DRM is as I described in option ( on other page then you are circumventing the DRM by doing that but not option (a). I do not know which they use. But I believe it may be ( not (a). Could even be both.

Circumvention of DRM is default breach of copyright legislation as the license is revoked. Remaining perminantly offline cannot constitute a breach if the option to remain offline was presented by the licensor and the coding of the DRM has not been tampered with in anyway. For licensors to provide an offline mode, but then allege breach for actually being offline is illogical. By extention The Exhaustion of Rights Principle dictates that IP holders have little to no control over the use of the IP by the end user after it has been distributed so long as it does not cause financial damage to the IP holder and the IP in possession of the licensee is not used for commercial gain.

[Harley_Dude]

Great, I can pass the IP address of the CIA and the ascii equivalent of the middle finger in the data.

And source code does not show data collected. You can pass parms through functions and change their behaviour.

[Bogsnot1]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Origin is no longer needed.

I don't remember him saying that.

He said (one time activation and for multiplayer) not (requires one time activation then no internet connection needed after).

OK, so I paraphrased. Still, if it does not require an internet connection after activation, there is nothing wrong with blocking it, is there?

Out of curiosity, what is it with you, and cherrypicking parts of my arguments, and ignoring everything else, at the cost of context?
Is it because you are afraid of being exposed as the EA shill you have been accused of? Is it because you cannot comprehend some of the larger words I use? Or some other, inane and illogical reason?

[dmex]

kofelover wrote...
It didn't do any such thing yesterday.  Do you have any pull to get the wording of the EULA changed to coincide with the statements EA has made about the intrusiveness of their program?  If it's not doing it now, and won't be in the future, that is easily rectified by changing the EULA or allowing an "opt-out" for concerned customers.

The wording of the EULA was already changed weeks ago to be more explicit that it would not occur now or in the future.  

hotedge wrote...
@ dmex regardless of how origin operates now (bug or no bug) how running origin in a silicon container is circumventing its DRM after all you being on the EA Security Risk Management Team

Sandboxing Origin is not circumventing the DRM, as it doesn't interfere with the DRM in such way that allows you to bypass it. 

Pupuppu wrote...
As the repository is still empty, can we expect to see the source soon and do you plan this client as a real alternative to the EA Origin client where the community can contribute or is this just a proof of concept?

I plan on releasing the entire source code very soon and allow the entire community to contribute to it's development, Just awaiting some notes from management about various things.

The project is only three weeks old and already supports everything Origin does with some added extra's such as file transfers between friends, custom profile names, friends status messages to name a few.

Some planned features are voice and video chat (Already supported by the chat protocal, just need to add the handling to enable it), Steam games and friends intergration using the SteamWorks API, Messenger, IRC and facebook chat support (all three use the same XMPP chat protocal and can be easily added )

It's completely customizable (several themes and several different display styles), here’s a screenshot of the default mode:  http://i.imgur.com/kN2s6.png 

Modifié par dmex, 20 janvier 2012 - 04:16 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Origin is no longer needed.

I don't remember him saying that.

He said (one time activation and for multiplayer) not (requires one time activation then no internet connection needed after).

OK, so I paraphrased. Still, if it does not require an internet connection after activation, there is nothing wrong with blocking it, is there?

Out of curiosity, what is it with you, and cherrypicking parts of my arguments, and ignoring everything else, at the cost of context?

It's nothing more than highlighting a specific aspect much like using bolded words or underlining and removing pure simple insults.

I see Dmex has answered the question now.

Sandboxing Origin is not circumventing the DRM, as it doesn't interfere with the DRM in such way that allows you to bypass it.  

So my guesses, were just that (guesses). Atleast we have clarification now.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 20 janvier 2012 - 04:22 .

[Dragoonlordz]

billy the squid wrote...

Circumvention of DRM is default breach of copyright legislation as the license is revoked. Remaining perminantly offline cannot constitute a breach if the option to remain offline was presented by the licensor and the coding of the DRM has not been tampered with in anyway. For licensors to provide an offline mode, but then allege breach for actually being offline is illogical. By extention The Exhaustion of Rights Principle dictates that IP holders have little to no control over the use of the IP by the end user after it has been distributed so long as it does not cause financial damage to the IP holder and the IP in possession of the licensee is not used for commercial gain.

Thanks, heh can always trust on you for legal information. 

[Rudy Lis]

Little wall of multiquote incoming.

Doodledorf wrote...

I love reading your posts, it's so random in parts yet all seems to fit just enough together with amusing little phrases and sayings thrown in that makes my head have hard time keeping up. Bit like difference of most posts akin to watching paint dry yours are like watching a hummingbird travelling at super speed and trying to keep your eyes on it.

I do this to support Michael Beattie for Mordin!
And I like to watch Kingfishers. Common Kingfishers, to be more specific - they usually present here during their breeding time. At least I don't have to move my six into warmer countries.

Doodledorf wrote...

It is good, entertaining and you can tell if look at it and try not to focus so much on the scatter effect, that you are really a very bright/smart person. 

The tl;dr version of what I just said is > I like the way you write your posts. 

You probably the one and only person on these forumes who think that way.
But thanks.

shepisavanguardgetoverit wrote...

Does anyone know from experience if Origin is better optimised for dsl/cable internet than steam. I mean it takes me 2 days to download a game on steam atm, my download rate in steam will not go any higher then 160kps, yet my download rate ouside of steam is like 250 - 300 ? (I live in Australia, so it may just be our crappy internet )

From what I've been able to gather with my little experience with Origin (just BF3/DA2/Pinnacle Station), it is not faster than Steam. They both, in general, follows my ISP's contract - about 5 Mbps. From time to time, downloading rate may rise or dive, regardless of DD manager - be it Steam or Origin.

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I think EA and Origin will be around for many years to come, decade+ I do not know as thats a bit far reaching for relying on simple guess work. However if such a time occurs I would hope they would release a patch for titles that did use a client to no longer require it. I do not know how likely this would be but I think we as customers won't have to worry about that for a long time with regard to dropping of Origin given it does seem to be their long term plan to continue it.

I think by the time they fall, if they fall, ME3 will be abandonware, even taking that little fact that it is EA's toy (even seen any of their games as abandonware?). So somewhere around 2024 someone may release community patch, divorcing ME3 and Origin and most of PC gamers would be able to finally enjoy the game. We two, on the contrary, by that time, will be enjoying ME6 chronicles on Origin 2.0, arguing on this very board and will be constantly ninjedited by moderators for spoilering, since there will be only two ME6 copies sold on PC.
And welcome back, by the way.

Stanley Woo wrote...

i'm just here to keep the thread from imploding.or exploding or... transploding, i guess.

That'll be "Ka-bewm", I suppose. Maybe Ker-pew. Depends on if we've brought enough gun.

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

It's kinda funny, for many years now I've half-jokingly said that many of today's big corporations would make excellent video game/movie/comic book villians. Most already have the ethics of an evil organizatiom and are just missing the army of guys in black suits with red visors.

There is no morale in politics, only usefulness of actions.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 20 janvier 2012 - 04:24 .

[Lux]

dmex wrote...

kofelover wrote...
It didn't do any such thing yesterday.  Do you have any pull to get the wording of the EULA changed to coincide with the statements EA has made about the intrusiveness of their program?  If it's not doing it now, and won't be in the future, that is easily rectified by changing the EULA or allowing an "opt-out" for concerned customers.

The wording of the EULA was already changed weeks ago to be more explicit that it would not occur now or in the future.  

hotedge wrote...
@ dmex regardless of how origin operates now (bug or no bug) how running origin in a silicon container is circumventing its DRM after all you being on the EA Security Risk Management Team

Sandboxing Origin is not circumventing the DRM, as it doesn't interfere with the DRM in such way that allows you to bypass it. 

Pupuppu wrote...
As the repository is still empty, can we expect to see the source soon and do you plan this client as a real alternative to the EA Origin client where the community can contribute or is this just a proof of concept?

I plan on releasing the entire source code very soon and allow the entire community to contribute to it's development, Just awaiting some notes from management about various things.

The project is only three weeks old and already supports everything Origin does with some added extra's such as file transfers between friends, custom profile names, friends status messages to name a few.

Some planned features are voice and video chat (Already supported by the chat protocal, just need to add the handling to enable it), Steam games and friends intergration using the SteamWorks API, Messenger, IRC and facebook chat support (all three use the same XMPP chat protocal and can be easily added )

It's completely customizable (several themes and several different display styles), here’s a screenshot of the default mode:  http://i.imgur.com/kN2s6.png 

Thanks for the input dmex. The open Origin project looks pretty cool.

[Forbidden]

dmex wrote...

Forbidden wrote...

I will not allow Origin onto my machine.  Stating that it isn't spyware doesn't make it so.  It searches your disk and uploads personal information.  That is spyware.  I was looking forward to ME3 after playing the two previous, but I will not purchase ME3 or any future bioware games that require Origin.  There are plenty of other games out there that aren't security risks.  It's a shame that bioware has chosen the anti-customer the route of Ubisoft.  You used to be a good company.

Origin does nothing of the sort, I answered and provided proof it does no such thing here just yesterday: forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/300/7488935.page#19555964

For those that are still unconvined, I'm working on an Open-Source verion of Origin: 
http://openorigin.sourceforge.net/ 

dmex
Researcher, EA Security Risk Management Team

1) EA has no credibility.  Why would I believe you?  And even if I believed you, how do I know that won't change tomorrow?  That's the thing about these schemes.  You're setting up a system where you can (and have already!)  revoked property that people have legitimately purchased.  Valve was a company that had tremendous good will and it still took them years before Steam started to be trusted.  EA has no good will to call on and has already shown that it is quite willing to abuse its power.  EA has a massive trust deficit.  If it wishes to gain our trust, it has to first start by promoting some goodwill.  Forcing games into Origin right away is the wrong direction.  If Origin is good, woo people to it, don't try to shove down their throats.  If you want our trust, you need to earn it.

2) The EULA has a rather amazing definition for "non-personally identifiable": " The non-personally identifiable information that EA collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware."  Nothing identifiable in there, except my IP address, software, software usage, etc.  This is a license to rifle through my hard drive.  (The binding abritration clause is another one of those real confidence raisers)  EA has no business knowing what programs I have installed on my machine, nor how I choose to use them.  And the term "application" could easily include any data associated with said application, which basically covers Origin's right to comb through my hard disk and upload anything it likes.  How long before some marketing genius in the bowels of EA realizes he could use Origin to data mine our hard drives?

3) When you release an open source version of Origin that games can use to authenticate through, then I'll consider purchasing.  I'm not going to hold my breath on that one, but I'd be delighted if you could prove me wrong and provide a light-weight authenticate-only open source version of Origin.  I care nothing for the "social" nonsense that every marketing droid seems utterly enamored with nor online play.  Since the actual authentication is server-based, there is no reason why the communication need be tied to anything else.  This is the sort of thing that EA could do to begin to reverse its reputation.  Yes, other companies haven't done that, but other companies don't have the trust deficit you do, nor are asking us to trust you not to arbitrarily revoke the games we paid for.

[Bogsnot1]

So, I guess that means Adugan is owed an apology for his ban, and I'm owed one for being threatened with bans, for discussing perfectly legal, and legitimate ways of ensuring Origin stays true to its word.
Not that I think one will be forthcoming, but if I do get one, I'll be more than happy to upload all of my dwarf beard porn to EA for their viewing pleasure.

@Dragoon: By cherrypicking, you end up exposing your own inabilities to respond legitimately to the points in question. Either make a legitimate attempt to respond to all of the points, or none.

[CenturyCrow]

dmex wrote...


Sandboxing Origin is not circumventing the DRM, as it doesn't interfere with the DRM in such way that allows you to bypass it. 

Thanks, I had asked that several times without getting an answer.

dmex wrote...

Some planned features are voice and video chat (Already supported by the chat protocal, just need to add the handling to enable it), Steam games and friends intergration using the SteamWorks API, Messenger, IRC and facebook chat support (all three use the same XMPP chat protocal and can be easily added )

There are many here that are not interested in installing Origin OR Steam or any other software except for the game itself. I sent back my unopened pre-order of Deus Ex because Steam was mandatory. Many are interested in playing the game we paid for, not additional software with it's own EULA, TOS and Privacy Policy. I played Mass Effect as a single player game. I played Mass Effect 2 as a single player game. I'm only interested in ME 3 as a single player game to finish the series. If I want to socialize or chat, I call and visit friends; any additional chat function is wasted disk space.
 
Chat is useful for multiplayer games and usually people use dedicated servers on Ventrillo or TeamSpeak; Origin would be of no use. Voice is built into the PS 3 for multiplayer.

I accept that EA insists on it being mandatory; however, IF I get ME 3 (pre-ordered CE was cancelled) it will be the last EA game I'll install and on completion of game play, it will be followed by a MANDATORY format and reinstall of Windows with a goodbye, thank you BioWare, but no thanks EA, you're killing the PC platform.

Modifié par CenturyCrow, 20 janvier 2012 - 04:40 .

[SeanMurphy2]

I am not a Mass Effect fan. But I still would have bought ME3 and Kingdoms of Amalur.

I don't want to be forced to install Origin on my computer. So I am having second thoughts.

[Dragoonlordz]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

So, I guess that means Adugan is owed an apology for his ban, and I'm owed one for being threatened with bans, for discussing perfectly legal, and legitimate ways of ensuring Origin stays true to its word.
Not that I think one will be forthcoming, but if I do get one, I'll be more than happy to upload all of my dwarf beard porn to EA for their viewing pleasure.

@Dragoon: By cherrypicking, you end up exposing your own inabilities to respond legitimately to the points in question. Either make a legitimate attempt to respond to all of the points, or none.

Sorry but cherry picking is required some times, for example there is no response required when replying to name calling and insults, but granted I do have bad habit of using snips and cuts to highlight sections, sentences and words instead of bolding and underlining. There is never anything personal in it's use.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 20 janvier 2012 - 04:43 .

[Lux]

Forbidden wrote...

1) EA has no credibility.  Why would I believe you?

You know, it's not usual for devs to interact directly with players in the forums (I wonder why).

Let's try to be civil on the disagreement.

Modifié par Merkar, 20 janvier 2012 - 04:45 .