3659 réponses à ce sujet

[Bogsnot1]

Forbidden wrote...
1) EA has no credibililty. Why should I believe you?

Because he is working on an open source verion of Origin, which should come complete with the source code for you to peruse to ensure it doesnt have any lines of code designed to upload your tax records and porn surfing habits to EA.

While I still dont trust EA, or Origin, I am at least willing to give dmex the benefit of the doubt, not only because of the open source project he is working on, but also becuase he has helped clear up misconceptions by the mods.
Not to mention it is statistically impossible for a company the size and EA to employ nothing but a-holes, and he is coming across as somewhat like Jacob. A nice guy who just has a dodgy employer. However, if he dares mention "the priiize", I shall have to reevaluate my opinion.

Edit: Yes, I realise the irony of my previous comments, by not quoting the full wall of text Forbidden wrote.

Modifié par Bogsnot1, 20 janvier 2012 - 05:49 .

[Forbidden]

Merkar wrote...

Forbidden wrote...

1) EA has no credibility.  Why would I believe you?

You know, it's not usual for devs to interact directly with players in the forums (I wonder why).

Let's try to be civil on the disagreement.

Should I lie and say everyone trusts EA just to be nice and civil?  Trust and credibility is the central issue.  How can we have an honest discussion if we can't call a spade a spade.  EA really needs to answer the question "Why should we believe you?".  That question was asked of Valve for years.  Valve had the advantage of an already sterling reputation and it took them years of "See, this service works and we're not abusing it" to gain decent traction.  To this day, many people are quite vocal about not trusting Steam, despite years of good behavior.  EA's reputation is not Ubisoft's, but not too far above at this point.  If we can't point that out, how will EA ever understand the issue?  Does EA even understand what its reputation is and just how much its asking us to trust them?  They're forcing a system that allows them to effectively steal back any software we purchase from them at their own discretion, and our only recourse is to appeal to their own bought and paid for arbitor.  That's asking an awful lot from us.  (and that's not even doing into the issue of whether or not Origin is acting as spyware)

[dmex]

 

CenturyCrow wrote...There are many here that are not interested in installing Origin OR Steam or any other software except for the game itself.

One of the main goals I've had with the project is keeping the componentization; you can literally delete the entire chat component and comment out a few lines of code if you don't want it.
Open Source software has that capability for any developer to change the code and release it to suit your or other’s needs.

Forbidden wrote...1) EA has no credibility.  Why would I believe you?  And even if I believed you, how do I know that won't change tomorrow?  
That's the thing about these schemes. You're setting up a system where you can (and have already!) revoked property that people have legitimately purchased.  
2) The EULA has a rather amazing definition for "non-personally identifiable": " The non-personally identifiable information that EA collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware."  Nothing identifiable in there, except my IP address, software, software usage, etc.  This is a license to rifle through my hard drive.  
(The binding abritration clause is another one of those real confidence raisers)  EA has no business knowing what programs I have installed on my machine, nor how I choose to use them.  And the term "application" could easily include any data associated with said application, which basically covers Origin's right to comb through my hard disk and upload anything it likes.  How long before some marketing genius in the bowels of EA realizes he could use Origin to data mine our hard drives?
3) When you release an open source version of Origin that games can use to authenticate through, then I'll consider purchasing.  I'm not going to hold my breath on that one, but I'd be delighted if you could prove me wrong and provide a light-weight authenticate-only open source version of Origin.  I care nothing for the "social" nonsense that every marketing droid seems utterly enamored with nor online play.  Since the actual authentication is server-based, there is no reason why the communication need be tied to anything else.  This is the sort of thing that EA could do to begin to reverse its reputation.  Yes, other companies haven't done that, but other companies don't have the trust deficit you do, nor are asking us to trust you not to arbitrarily revoke the games we paid for.

1) Don't believe me if you don't want to, I did provide proof on the EA forum about how Origin does not scan your data or hard-drive. We also have never revoked poeple's games, as I also mentioned and explained in detail in the same thread.

2) How is your IP address a licence to rifle though your data? 

I'll copy/paste a section I also posted in that thread about this same subject:
"invasive scanning for user data is highly unreliable and very legally dangerous, for example; if we collected your data there's no reliable way to know what it is and it could be by a Microsoft employee working on Windows source-code and would result in a very lengthy and costly lawsuit by Microsoft not to mention the backlash from users and other companies for even attempting such data collection. "

Merkar wrote...

Forbidden wrote...1) EA has no credibility.  Why would I believe you? 

You know, it's not usual for devs to interact directly with players in the forums (I wonder why). 
Let's try to be civil on the disagreement.

@Merkar

<3

[Adugan]

Edit: Post removed. 

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 20 janvier 2012 - 05:27 .

[Pupuppu]

2) How is your IP address a licence to rifle though your data? 

First of all thank you very much for the opensource client.
Secondly I have two questions you may can answer.

IP addresses and also the NICs mac are personally identifiable data, at least where I live.

1. Question: In what ways are the IP and MAC addresses are associated with i.e. the aggregated data or what are they used for at all, except for the access logs of the Websites in the client.
2. Question: As the people in Germany got a different EULA, how does the Origin client determine which EULA applies to whom?

[Gatt9]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

So, I guess that means Adugan is owed an apology for his ban, and I'm owed one for being threatened with bans, for discussing perfectly legal, and legitimate ways of ensuring Origin stays true to its word.
Not that I think one will be forthcoming, but if I do get one, I'll be more than happy to upload all of my dwarf beard porn to EA for their viewing pleasure.

@Dragoon: By cherrypicking, you end up exposing your own inabilities to respond legitimately to the points in question. Either make a legitimate attempt to respond to all of the points, or none.

Sorry but cherry picking is required some times, for example there is no response required when replying to name calling and insults, but granted I do have bad habit of using snips and cuts to highlight sections, sentences and words instead of bolding and underlining. There is never anything personal in it's use.

Actually,  he's right.  Generally speaking,  cherrypicking indicates you aren't able to deal with the arguement,  and so take bits out of context that you can then attack.  Phaedon is a good example of this.

Don't misunderstand,  I'm not saying you're intentionally doing that,  you actually do present reasonably strong arguements.  But the manner in which you present them makes it appear as if you're unable to deal with the arguements as a whole.

Rule of thumb:  Take the whole paragraph at a minimum,  articulate your points as you otherwise would,  let the readers make their judgement based upon the whole.  Credibility is largely achieved by demonstrating you are not attempting to hide information.  If you quote half a paragraph,  and the reader either has read the whole thing,  or goes back and reads the whole thing,  your arguement will be immediately dismissed because you now give the appearance of trying to hide things from the reader.

Even if you're 100% dead wrong,  you'll still be respected because you simply made an error.  It's ok to be wrong,  it's not ok to be perceived as manipulative.

Keep it clean,  take the whole paragraph,  don't pick out bits and pieces.

[CenturyCrow]

dmex wrote...
 

CenturyCrow wrote...There are many here that are not interested in installing Origin OR Steam or any other software except for the game itself.

One of the main goals I've had with the project is keeping the componentization; you can literally delete the entire chat component and comment out a few lines of code if you don't want it.
Open Source software has that capability for any developer to change the code and release it to suit your or other’s needs.

Sorry that doesn't work for me. First, I just want to play the game and finish the series, not become a programmer. Secondly, if I have a bad cold, I want to get rid of all of it, not just a small part of it.

However, I do appreciate you taking the time to examine forum member's concerns and answer them. Thank you. It benefits both the user and EA/BioWare.

For some, seeing and being able to work with the source code will undoubtly prove of interest and valuable. What they really want though, is to be able to mod the game. 

[Gatt9]

dmex wrote...

 

CenturyCrow wrote...There are many here that are not interested in installing Origin OR Steam or any other software except for the game itself.

One of the main goals I've had with the project is keeping the componentization; you can literally delete the entire chat component and comment out a few lines of code if you don't want it.
Open Source software has that capability for any developer to change the code and release it to suit your or other’s needs.

Forbidden wrote...1) EA has no credibility.  Why would I believe you?  And even if I believed you, how do I know that won't change tomorrow?  
That's the thing about these schemes. You're setting up a system where you can (and have already!) revoked property that people have legitimately purchased.  
2) The EULA has a rather amazing definition for "non-personally identifiable": " The non-personally identifiable information that EA collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware."  Nothing identifiable in there, except my IP address, software, software usage, etc.  This is a license to rifle through my hard drive.  
(The binding abritration clause is another one of those real confidence raisers)  EA has no business knowing what programs I have installed on my machine, nor how I choose to use them.  And the term "application" could easily include any data associated with said application, which basically covers Origin's right to comb through my hard disk and upload anything it likes.  How long before some marketing genius in the bowels of EA realizes he could use Origin to data mine our hard drives?
3) When you release an open source version of Origin that games can use to authenticate through, then I'll consider purchasing.  I'm not going to hold my breath on that one, but I'd be delighted if you could prove me wrong and provide a light-weight authenticate-only open source version of Origin.  I care nothing for the "social" nonsense that every marketing droid seems utterly enamored with nor online play.  Since the actual authentication is server-based, there is no reason why the communication need be tied to anything else.  This is the sort of thing that EA could do to begin to reverse its reputation.  Yes, other companies haven't done that, but other companies don't have the trust deficit you do, nor are asking us to trust you not to arbitrarily revoke the games we paid for.

1) Don't believe me if you don't want to, I did provide proof on the EA forum about how Origin does not scan your data or hard-drive. We also have never revoked poeple's games, as I also mentioned and explained in detail in the same thread.

2) How is your IP address a licence to rifle though your data? 

I'll copy/paste a section I also posted in that thread about this same subject:
"invasive scanning for user data is highly unreliable and very legally dangerous, for example; if we collected your data there's no reliable way to know what it is and it could be by a Microsoft employee working on Windows source-code and would result in a very lengthy and costly lawsuit by Microsoft not to mention the backlash from users and other companies for even attempting such data collection. "

Merkar wrote...

Forbidden wrote...1) EA has no credibility.  Why would I believe you? 

You know, it's not usual for devs to interact directly with players in the forums (I wonder why). 
Let's try to be civil on the disagreement.

@Merkar

<3

I would like to view this evidence so I may make a judgement.  I believe you are a Dev and I am interested to assess the evidence.

As far as the revoking goes,  I'm afraid there's alot of noise on the 'net about this,  and as a Developer I would expect you to be isolated from community relations and likely not reasonably privy to the actions taken in that department.  I know I couldn't tell you what my community relations department is doing,  and they're right downstairs from me.

[Forbidden]

dmex wrote...
One of the main goals I've had with the project is keeping the componentization; you can literally delete the entire chat component and comment out a few lines of code if you don't want it.
Open Source software has that capability for any developer to change the code and release it to suit your or other’s needs.

Will the open source version authenticate the games' DRM?  i.e. Can I play ME3 without ever installing the closed source version of Origin?

1) Don't believe me if you don't want to, I did provide proof on the EA forum about how Origin does not scan your data or hard-drive. We also have never revoked poeple's games, as I also mentioned and explained in detail in the same thread.

I've seen many reports of banning people from single player games with EA representatives explaining it specifically as you can't play single player when your account is banned.   That very thread you pointed to mentioned that you were actually banned at one point, and the only way you could play your games again was because you worked for EA and got your manager involved!  Consider how insane that sounds from someone sitting on our side of the fence.  If you didn't work for EA and couldn't get your own management involved, you'd still be banned.  Is it so hard to understand why we have trouble trusting EA?

What I got from the thread was "See, it wasn't Origin scanning the whole hard drive, it's just a bug in windows", which sounds a bit far-fetched, but I don't know windows internals enough to evaluate it.  If it was Unix/Linux, I could easily do so, I try to use windows as little as possible.

2) How is your IP address a licence to rifle though your data?

The bit about "operating system", "software" and "software usage".  That could cover everything on your disk.

I'll copy/paste a section I also posted in that thread about this same subject:
"invasive scanning for user data is highly unreliable and very legally dangerous, for example; if we collected your data there's no reliable way to know what it is and it could be by a Microsoft employee working on Windows source-code and would result in a very lengthy and costly lawsuit by Microsoft not to mention the backlash from users and other companies for even attempting such data collection. "

That's where the binding arbitration comes in to play... And you assume that EA management has enough sense to realize "we might get caught".  Do we really need to go over all the reasons why EA has a bad reputation?

As I mentioned earlier, an open source version with full auth would be a good start to fixing EA's reputation, but EA has a long road to go before anyone has cause to trust it.

[Forbidden]

CenturyCrow wrote...

dmex wrote...
 

CenturyCrow wrote...There are many here that are not interested in installing Origin OR Steam or any other software except for the game itself.

One of the main goals I've had with the project is keeping the componentization; you can literally delete the entire chat component and comment out a few lines of code if you don't want it.
Open Source software has that capability for any developer to change the code and release it to suit your or other’s needs.

Sorry that doesn't work for me. First, I just want to play the game and finish the series, not become a programmer. Secondly, if I have a bad cold, I want to get rid of all of it, not just a small part of it.

If it is as modular as he says, and does provide full functionality, someone will very quickly strip it down to authenticate-only, which should be nice an small code-base to make sure it isn't doing anything it isn't supposed to do.  At that point, it's no different than a single-game type activation.  However, that may not be possible.  I have my doubts that EA would allow its precious drm to become open source.

[Bogsnot1]

Another question:

Should Open Origin be finalised, released and gain my seal of approval prior to ME3, will the installation routine on the disk version of ME3 (and other games) recognise this, and forgo installing the closed source version?
Or will the installation routine ignore Open Origin, and attempt to install the closed source version on top of the open source one?

edit: Ninja'd by Forbidden.

Modifié par Bogsnot1, 20 janvier 2012 - 05:47 .

[Rudy Lis]

Since we practically singing Kumbaya here (only if out if tune, maybe), I wonder, will we, PC users (all three of us, as it seems now) receive ability to change savegame names? Because having a score of "Normandy command deck" saves is a bit confusing you know. Ability to have "Dealing with impossible odds #461", "Planning my next superb strategical move # 807" or my old-time favorite "Take that, you turnip-hating-scum #555" will be much more appreciated and self-explanatory.

[dmex]

 

First of all thank you very much for the opensource client.Secondly I have two questions you may can answer.
IP addresses and also the NICs mac are personally identifiable data, at least where I live.
1. Question: In what ways are the IP and MAC addresses are associated with i.e. the aggregated data or what are they used for at all, except for the access logs of the Websites in the client.2. Question: As the people in Germany got a different EULA, how does the Origin client determine which EULA applies to whom?

Your IP and MAC address by itself contain no personal information, They don't contain your name, address, DOB or any other personal data. 

1. They are aggregated in server access logs along with the millions of other requests.

2. I'm not aware of a different EULA or seperate Origin client 
for German users. If you can http://pastebin.com the EULA found in the Origin install directory I'll take a look.

CenturyCrow wrote...Sorry that doesn't work for me. First, I just want to play the game and finish the series, not become a programmer.
However, I do appreciate you taking the time to examine forum member's concerns and answer them. Thank you. It benefits both the user and EA/BioWare.
For some, seeing and being able to work with the source code will undoubtly prove of interest and valuable. What they really want though, is to be able to mod the game. 

You're welcome, A thread 65 pages long needs some official attention and I hope to be able to alleviate any concerns or questions you might have.

You won't need to be a programmer to make changes, I could remove all the friends code and rebuild the client within a few minutes if users desired.

Game Modding will entirely be upto the Bioware developers, It's outside my scope of work 

Gatt9 wrote...I would like to view this evidence so I may make a judgement.  I believe you are a Dev and I am interested to assess the evidence.
As far as the revoking goes,  I'm afraid there's alot of noise on the 'net about this,  and as a Developer I would expect you to be isolated from community relations and likely not reasonably privy to the actions taken in that department.  I know I couldn't tell you what my community relations department is doing,  and they're right downstairs from me.

The specific screenshot I showed of Origin from Start to Finish, not scanning your files is available in this post along with the software I used: http://forum.ea.com/...5.page#19555964

I also posed information about my expeience as a staff memeber being banned, also information about how it does not affect your games as we've made changes to prevent this from occurring 

Forbidden wrote...Will the open source version authenticate the games' DRM?  i.e. Can I play ME3 without ever installing the closed source version of Origin?

Origin won't be required, as for the DRM it's handled seperate from Origin by the games themself and is what has allowed me to create OpenOrigin.

Forbidden wrote... 
I've seen many reports of banning people from single player games with EA representatives explaining it specifically as you can't play single player when your account is banned.

 

Thats not entirely true, You can still play your games.

Forbidden wrote...  
That very thread you pointed to mentioned that you were actually banned at one point, and the only way you could play your games again was because you worked for EA and got your manager involved!  Consider how insane that sounds from someone sitting on our side of the fence.  If you didn't work for EA and couldn't get your own management involved, you'd still be banned.  Is it so hard to understand why we have trouble trusting EA?

Yes, Support staff where unable to verify my identify and where right to not unban my account (else anyone can say their an EA developer and get unbanned), contacting the internal management teams was the correct action for staff in that situation.  

Forbidden wrote... 
What I got from the thread was "See, it wasn't Origin scanning the whole hard drive, it's just a bug in windows", which sounds a bit far-fetched, but I don't know windows internals enough to evaluate it.  If it was Unix/Linux, I could easily do so, I try to use windows as little as possible.

FindFirstFile/FindFirstFileEx use wildcard string matching, If you throw an ANSI string into a function expecting Unicode you can expect bugs like that one causing your entire drive to be enumerated.

I also mentioned how no major news source or industry experts even bothered to mention it and how the few media stories completely relied upon Process Monitor as their proof with explanations coming from random users with no real programming experience. PM doesn't show the API calls, if it did you could clearly see the wildcard string was incorrect.

You can search the major news sites for Origin and find nothing and if you look back on the news sources, PM was the only evidence provided to backup those claims, they also provided no logs or internet traffic to backup the 'transmitting your data to EA' statements which is bad reporting and clear FUD.

Forbidden wrote... 
2) How is your IP address a licence to rifle though your data?The bit about "operating system", "software" and "software usage".  That could cover everything on your disk.

It is a little unclear, I'm waiting for offical clarification.

I do know that also covers Support techs asking what OS you have and what software you have installed to help troubbleshoot problems with your games. "Software Usage" should be only about Origin telemety such as it's start-up time, what windows use the most and performance counters such as it's memory usage.

I'll wait to hear back about that before saying that section only applies to Origin.

dmex

[Lumikki]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Forbidden wrote...
1) EA has no credibililty. Why should I believe you?

Because he is working on an open source verion of Origin, which should come complete with the source code for you to peruse to ensure it doesnt have any lines of code designed to upload your tax records and porn surfing habits to EA.

Real issue is not WHAT files are scanned. Real issue is transfering information out side of our computer without asking permission, ANY information. Issue is that EA doesn't let people make they own choices, but deside that EA's own needs are more important than customers computer privacy. It's lack of respect for they own customers, what drops the credibility.

Issue is they decissions over us, we don't have a choices, even when it's about us and our property.  It's forcefull software installation and rude intrusion of computer privacy. How can we trust someone, who doesn't respect our freedom of make our own choices?

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 janvier 2012 - 07:53 .

[Forbidden]

dmex wrote...

Forbidden wrote...Will the open source version authenticate the games' DRM?  i.e. Can I play ME3 without ever installing the closed source version of Origin?

Origin won't be required, as for the DRM it's handled seperate from Origin by the games themself and is what has allowed me to create OpenOrigin.

Then why is Origin or OpenOrigin required for a game to be played at all?  My understanding is that Steam's DRM, for instance, authorizes the games itself.  The games executable hooks to steam and steam tells it whether it should run or not, so if you try and run a Steam DRM'd game without Steam running, it won't work.  But what I think you're saying here is that the DRM is self-contained (contacting EA servers for initial auth directly).  If that's the case, then why is Bioware saying Origin needs to be running?  I can understand if you don't want to get too specific on the DRM process as proprietary, that's perfectly understandable, it just seems like Bioware says the Origin executable must be running for ME3 to work, but you're suggesting only an Origin account at EA's servers would be needed.  (Presumably, if the game is contacting EA directly to evaluate the DRM, the account would need to exist there)  So is this just a slight miscommunication between EA and Bioware?  (i.e. Like ToR, an Origin account is required, but the actual Origin Software doesn't need to be running)

FindFirstFile/FindFirstFileEx use wildcard string matching, If you throw an ANSI string into a function expecting Unicode you can expect bugs like that one causing your entire drive to be enumerated.

Interesting that it accepts the input at all, I imagine it's a legacy thing?  I know windows has a ton of legacy stuff lying about... but no, I don't want to derail the thread into windows internals. 

It is a little unclear, I'm waiting for offical clarification.

I do know that also covers Support techs asking what OS you have and what software you have installed to help troubbleshoot problems with your games. "Software Usage" should be only about Origin telemety such as it's start-up time, what windows use the most and performance counters such as it's memory usage.

I'll wait to hear back about that before saying that section only applies to Origin.

The problem is not what one person thinks it means or what the author was thinking.  It's enough ambiguity to drive a truck through.   There are certainly innocent possibilities of what they were thinking.  But there are plenty of not-so-innocent aswell.  And this really all goes back to EA's reputation.  EA is pushing Origin hard, asking everyone to blindly trust it, not just on the spyware issue, but even more broadly on a system that allows EA to revoke software that people have legitimately purchased.  It's a huge balance of power shift, and one that makes users understandably uncomfortable.  So far, EA has not shown itself to be especially responsible with that kind of power.  Forcing Origin now only intensifies suspicion.

[Ottemis]

dmex wrote...
*snip*
I plan on releasing the entire source code very soon and allow the entire community to contribute to it's development, Just awaiting some notes from management about various things.

The project is only three weeks old and already supports everything Origin does with some added extra's such as file transfers between friends, custom profile names, friends status messages to name a few.

Some planned features are voice and video chat (Already supported by the chat protocal, just need to add the handling to enable it), Steam games and friends intergration using the SteamWorks API, Messenger, IRC and facebook chat support (all three use the same XMPP chat protocal and can be easily added )

It's completely customizable (several themes and several different display styles), here’s a screenshot of the default mode:  http://i.imgur.com/kN2s6.png

This is fabulous it really is. It would logicly take away all concearn when you release an open source client, because it's bowels can be turned inside out if people wish to do so. Not only that, you have spun a negative into a positive by making this into an opportunity to give back to the community in accordance to their concearns AND make a smart business move by integrating steam games and friends-lists. Not to mention that being super-convenient for people using both clients atm.

I have one question, assuming COOP games can be created by inviting people in friendslist on Origin (or Steam respectively), will the people integrated via Steam also fall under that category or do they have to be manually added to the Origin and/or Steam specific friendlist, also how does this work in regards to 'double entries'?

I can understand if you don't have the time to answer btw, I'm just curious =)
Also, thanks for this, I salute you.

Modifié par Ottemis, 20 janvier 2012 - 08:11 .

[Lux]

Regarding the issue of forum bans affecting a player's ability to access EA games. Here's another tidbit of information from dmex in the Origin forum:

Craigdolphin wrote:

Is there any effort being made to reform the system such that support will actually be helpful instead of arbitrarily banning accounts for no good reason?

dmex wrote:

Yes, A language filter has already been implemented as a first step (e.g. http://i.imgur.com/jV3qk.png), Moderators and Admins will also edit and remove offensive images and text while sending a polite notification about the forum rules, The banning system is also being 're-tooled' to ensure forum bans in no way effect your ability to play your games in future.

These changes should already reduce the instances where a forum ban will affect your ability to play online

Looking good. I may get 70 bucks poorer after all.

[Wintersembrace]

@ dmex thank you

[DotStain]

No, im not installing maleware on my pc and pay for that!

So, im not buying it, maybe just watch a let´s play...

[didymos1120]

Maleware?

[Bogsnot1]

^ Just like malware, but it literally shafts your computer.

Ottemis wrote...
..snip..
Also, thanks for this, I salute you.

Salute?

[off-topic images removed]

are the only accepted forms of gratiuty payment on the interwebz.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 20 janvier 2012 - 05:51 .

[Yuoaman]

^^ I think they mean mailware - which is malware officially released by your country's postal system.

[Ottemis]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Ottemis wrote...
..snip..
Also, thanks for this, I salute you.

Salute?

Beer
or
Cookies

are the only accepted forms of gratuity payment on the interwebz.

Both!

Modifié par Ottemis, 20 janvier 2012 - 09:02 .

[Gotholhorakh]

Yuoaman wrote...

^^ I think they mean mailware - which is malware officially released by your country's postal system.

Or possibly mallware - software available at your local shopping mall.

Unless they really do mean maleware - if so I can see their point - that's got to look pretty horrific, and obscure your view of the screen to boot.

I am against the installation of male or female "ware" on our computers, and I like even less the idea of it roving around where it isn't wanted - it sounds horrendous, and it just goes to show I need to read the EULA more carefully because I didn't catch anything like that.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 20 janvier 2012 - 09:12 .

[fchopin]

SeanMurphy2 wrote...

I am not a Mass Effect fan. But I still would have bought ME3 and Kingdoms of Amalur.

I don't want to be forced to install Origin on my computer. So I am having second thoughts.

You don't have to have origin installed to play Kingdoms of Amalur so you can go ahead and buy the game.

You can also play the game on steam.