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[Discus]

Just realized how epic Dragon Age is. And how cool the concept that Mike Laidlaw has stated in interviews is, the idea that Dragon Age is NOT about one main character BUT about "a time and a place". Which is much more interesting than than having several games just perpetuate the legend of one character. I know there has been so many discussions about how much fans miss the Warden and asking if Hawke will come back etc, etc.. And at times I would also like to revisit my Wardens journey.. But what I just realized is that I much rather revisit previous Dragon Age main characters through another characters story and perspective in a future DA game. That way you get such an interesting perspective on the consequences of your actions in Thedas. It is not just about one person but it is about the consequences of your choices for entire Thedas. What role will our choices play in each and every different charcters life, that is a really interesting question; How will the circumstances that are a direct result of your actions and choices shape Thedas and what will that bring out of the next and NEW main character you will create; what will he/she have to deal with?.. Extremely interesting!
Hawke fled Fereldan because of the Blight.. The choices of the Warden shaped in part the world and situation that Hawke had to deal with. Not as much as maybe some of us had hoped but remember that this is just the second game in this series so far. Imagine when there is maybe 5 games out, 5 Dragon Age stories who all link through different people with different stories. That is really cool and really interesting to imagine! It has not been done in this way before in any game that I know of. Not on that scale and in such an interesting world as Thedas.

With Dragon Age 2 Hawke completely shifted politics and religion for a large part of Thedas. And I am so excited to see how a NEW main character (who is neither the Warden nor Hawke) will have to deal with the choices we made in the previous games and what consequences that will have on the world of Thedas. It really excites me so much more than just perpetuating the one and the same character through several games. With the idea of "a time and a place", you get the real deal according to me. You get variety, you get perspective on the consequences of your choices through several characters; you get choices that not only affects one person but really affects a whole world of people and situations.

Well done Bioware, lovely idea! Saying this cause I think we fans need to realize the scope of the DA concept, its endless possibilities, that it is inspirating and exciting, can't wait to see what will happen!


Discus

PS. After such a positive post.. I have to write just something a little negative to hahahahaha.. Still, and I said it before, I really hope the DA team will be more tasteful in their design and style in the future.. It is a question of personal taste obviously but I think it has not reached it full potential yet. Cause I see some great things and then some things going completely wild. I can't stand any more supersized, weirdly shaped swords and magic that looks like Chinese new years eve (Merediths blasting, magic, laser madness for example). Sorry.. Some things look great in both Origins and DA2 but sometimes a little simplicity and refined taste goes much further.. DS. Thank you!

Modifié par Discus, 17 janvier 2012 - 11:38 .

[SkittlesKat96]

I reckon DA 2 could have been a bit more epic though...I wish there were more locales and environments and the plot was a little less mediocre and Hawke had more significance.

Still though I enjoyed DA 2 and I know DA 2 criticism has been done to death and I'm eager for DA 3.

[Am1vf]

I agree with you, Discus.

And it gave me an Idea: it would be nice if there could be new expansions coming for Origins and Dragon Age 2, allowing to expand on the story of the warden and Hawke while still making new protagonists for every new game.

[Discus]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

I reckon DA 2 could have been a bit more epic though...I wish there were more locales and environments and the plot was a little less mediocre and Hawke had more significance.

Still though I enjoyed DA 2 and I know DA 2 criticism has been done to death and I'm eager for DA 3.

For me the epicness of Dragon Age lies within the connection between all the stories Bioware will hopefully write and produce.

So of course there can be flaws to an individual game, and I hope and think Bioware pays attention to our feedback here and other places. So each game will improve some things, add some things and need adjustments on some things always. But what stands out to me as unique and very interesting and absorbing for me as a player is the idea "of a place and time". I think that all the games together is a huge epic, some of the games within that epic might be less or more traditional in their "epicness" but none the less, they will all offer a unique perspective on the role you play (as a player playing the game) in shaping thw world of Thedas.. Really cool, I think !

[Discus]

Also, one can argue whether Hawke had significance or not.. I think he really did.. Maybe he was a bit of a pawn of fate or powers beyond his control in a sense. But the story and Hawkes choices within that story, fate, whatever you wanna call it, definitely shapes the world of Thedas and I think that the situation that Thedas is in after DA2 is indeed really interesting. And all this can only get more interesting. Like I said, imagine 5 games from now; imagine how much you will have experienced and seen unfold because of your choices as a player having to make different choices depending on the circumstance of the different characters you will play. Circumstances that were ultimately defined by your previous characters choices and stories!

[kyles3]

Intellectually I can recognize that DA2 tells an epic story, but spending hour after hour romping through the same handful of dungeons does not feel epic. 

[Discus]

True.. Still, I am looking at Dragon Age as an entire concept. And where it can go. And that the situation that DA2 left Thedas in is a very interesting setup for things to come.

And as far as I have heard future DA games won't be re-using areas like DA2 did, which obviously was a really bad idea to do in the first place but happened for reasons we might not know.

So, what I am saying is that I believe that DA is becoming a very interesting idea and that the more games come out the more exciting it will get, the more epic it will get and as more games come out we will see the bigger picture more and more. Hopefully DA3 and other future DA games will refine its storytelling even more so that even the individual games feel epic. And I think most can agree that Origins was a great game, and DA2 had its really great moments as well. So Bioware can pull it off and they have a great idea as a base for this to happen. And I think on the whole they are going to a very interesting place with the Dragon Age idea, so far as I can tell anyway.

[Wulfram]

Dalira Montanti wrote...

He helped Anders start the mage war how much Significance do we need?

Anders starts the mage war independent of Hawke's actions.  And he doesn't really start the mage war.

[Sylvianus]

I told to Anders, to gtfo, in Act 2, and he came back suddenly in the end of act 3, to blow up the tower, without my help as well. So hawk, or no, that doesn't change anything. Anders starts the mage war independent of Hawk's actions.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 17 janvier 2012 - 03:02 .

[Sir JK]

Actually the way I figure it... while DAO was indeed an epic, a classic crpg epic even. It tells of a hero and of grand achievements.

DA2 on the other hand, while certainly being epic, is in fact not an epic. It is a drama and a tragedy. But not an epic. It's not about heroic escapades or grand adventures. It's about surviving while everything collapses around you. A completely different story category.
Which is perhaps what I like absolutely best about the game.

Though sometimes I wonder if part of the reason it's so disliked is that it is just that... a drama when people expected an epic.

[thats1evildude]

Sylvianus wrote...

I told to Anders, to gtfo, in Act 2, and he came back suddenly in the end of act 3, to blow up the tower, without my help as well. So hawk, or no, that doesn't change anything. Anders starts the mage war independent of Hawk's actions.

But if Hawke had not helped Anders in Act 1, he likely would have died in the ambush at the Chantry or have been captured. Had that occured, Anders would have never destroyed the Chantry. Aiding Anders helped set in motion events that eventually led to the Mage-Templar War.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 17 janvier 2012 - 07:56 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

thats1evildude wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

I told to Anders, to gtfo, in Act 2, and he came back suddenly in the end of act 3, to blow up the tower, without my help as well. So hawk, or no, that doesn't change anything. Anders starts the mage war independent of Hawk's actions.

But if Hawke had not helped Anders in Act 1, he likely would have died in the ambush at the Chantry or have been captured.

Which probably would have been to everyone's benefit.

[thats1evildude]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Which probably would have been to everyone's benefit.

Maybe. I don't want to get into the rights or wrongs of the templars and the Circle of Magi, but it was evident to me throughout Origins and DA2 that the system was coming apart at the seams. Conflict may not have been inevitable, but it was a growing likelihood.

[LobselVith8]

Wulfram wrote...

Dalira Montanti wrote...

He helped Anders start the mage war how much Significance do we need?

Anders starts the mage war independent of Hawke's actions.  And he doesn't really start the mage war.

Asunder gives the impression that Anders and Hawke don't really matter in the overall scheme of things. The events at Kirkwall may as well have never happened.

[thats1evildude]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Asunder gives the impression that Anders and Hawke don't really matter in the overall scheme of things. The events at Kirkwall may as well have never happened.

DG already indicated that conclusion is a bit silly. (Not that it'll stop you from repeating it.)

David Gaider wrote...

Since there's no way to avoid mentioning Hawke in the context of the book's conflict without also mentioning which side of the conflict Hawke came down on, I had to avoid mentioning Hawke at all.

Which doesn't bother me, since the references are minor at best anyhow. The point was not to pat a player on the hand and reassure them how very important their Hawke is. They'll have the games for that.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 17 janvier 2012 - 08:21 .

[Discus]

Sir JK wrote...

Actually the way I figure it... while DAO was indeed an epic, a classic crpg epic even. It tells of a hero and of grand achievements.

DA2 on the other hand, while certainly being epic, is in fact not an epic. It is a drama and a tragedy. But not an epic. It's not about heroic escapades or grand adventures. It's about surviving while everything collapses around you. A completely different story category.
Which is perhaps what I like absolutely best about the game.

Though sometimes I wonder if part of the reason it's so disliked is that it is just that... a drama when people expected an epic.

Great point.. And this is why I think Dragon Age has so much potential. Because Dragon Age as a total story is epic to me, but the amount of variety and different perspectives each game can give on that total epic is huge!

I think this is Dragon Age strength and what makes Dragon Age much more interesting than other rpgs out there!

[Realmzmaster]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Dalira Montanti wrote...

He helped Anders start the mage war how much Significance do we need?

Anders starts the mage war independent of Hawke's actions.  And he doesn't really start the mage war.

Asunder gives the impression that Anders and Hawke don't really matter in the overall scheme of things. The events at Kirkwall may as well have never happened.

What happened in Asunder has no bearing on the games. David Gaider has been very explicit in stating that fact.  The story told by the games is not the same one being told in the books. All occur in the same universe from the same fertile mind but that is it.

[Gyrefalcon]

Really? The books are not canon? I thought Asunder showed the summary of what the reaction of the rest of Thedas made of the events in Kirkwall.

[Gibb_Shepard]

The books are canon. What hapenned in Asunder is what started the mage rebellion.

Hell, do you know how many references the DA games make to the DA novels? They are as canon as canon can get.

[Morroian]

Realmzmaster wrote...

What happened in Asunder has no bearing on the games. David Gaider has been very explicit in stating that fact.  The story told by the games is not the same one being told in the books. All occur in the same universe from the same fertile mind but that is it.

The specifics may not quite match in terms of characters but the events would largely track the same in all versions.

[HiroVoid]

thats1evildude wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Asunder gives the impression that Anders and Hawke don't really matter in the overall scheme of things. The events at Kirkwall may as well have never happened.

DG already indicated that conclusion is a bit silly. (Not that it'll stop you from repeating it.)

David Gaider wrote...

Since there's no way to avoid mentioning Hawke in the context of the book's conflict without also mentioning which side of the conflict Hawke came down on, I had to avoid mentioning Hawke at all.

Which doesn't bother me, since the references are minor at best anyhow. The point was not to pat a player on the hand and reassure them how very important their Hawke is. They'll have the games for that.

Yes.  I can't wait for DA3 to learn how Hawke has gone off to places unknown to join the Warden assuming we don't get an act IV dlc.

[Morroian]

thats1evildude wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Asunder gives the impression that Anders and Hawke don't really matter in the overall scheme of things. The events at Kirkwall may as well have never happened.

DG already indicated that conclusion is a bit silly. (Not that it'll stop you from repeating it.)

And really one doesn't even need David Gaider's explanation to realise that Asunder portrayed the relationship between mages and the chantry on a knife's edge because of what happened in Kirkwall.

[Plaintiff]

Morroian wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Asunder gives the impression that Anders and Hawke don't really matter in the overall scheme of things. The events at Kirkwall may as well have never happened.

DG already indicated that conclusion is a bit silly. (Not that it'll stop you from repeating it.)

And really one doesn't even need David Gaider's explanation to realise that Asunder portrayed the relationship between mages and the chantry on a knife's edge because of what happened in Kirkwall.

It's impossible to point at any single event and say "this is where the conflict began". Anders actions and the events of Asunder didn't occur in a vacuum. Multiple factors contributed to the eventual outbreak of violence.