38 réponses à ce sujet

[owl208]

Why is everyone in DA:O so obsessed with lying?

Duncan:  Lies about the ritual.  Lies when he refuses to acknowledge that you are a thief. 

Flemeth:  Lies about who or what she is.   Nearly everything she says 99% truth and 1% lie.  A true master liar.

Morrigan:  She lies about why she is really going along with the Grey Wardens & her goals vis a vis the end game.

Alistair:  Lies about his past.   Lies about what he really wants.   Lies when he states "I'll stand by another Grey Warden no matter what." 

Lelianna:   Lies about spying.  Lies about a bard's life.   Lies about her former relationships.

Logain:  Where do I even begin to account for his lies? He and his daughter...... 

And many more.

I realize its *human* nature to lie because lying is a betrayal and as such is seen as good for a story perhaps, but why all the emphasis on lying? 

Perhaps DA:O is trying to tell us that everyone lies.   Everyone. 

That way we'll feel more comfortable in their new universe......like we are with all the blood-splatter paint. 

Modifié par owl208, 23 novembre 2009 - 05:27 .

[ReubenLiew]

I don't it's lying so much more as concealing the truth. Small, but significant difference. And this is a very common human trait.

[SilkyChicken]

Talk to Sten. He doesn't lie. If you ask him something he doesn't want to talk about, he'll tell you.



"No."

[The Angry One]

Sten: Is lied to about the availability of cake.

[SilkyChicken]

The Angry One wrote...

Sten: Is lied to about the availability of cake.

Not in my game!  My dog, Oatcake, found a cake back in the castle at Highever.  I tucked it away in my pack, and the first thing I did when I freed Sten was to give him that cake and a bottle of wine.  He loved em!  No cutscene though like I was hoping

[Findarin]

"Duncan: Lies about the ritual. Lies when he refuses to acknowledge that you are a thief. "

Don't know when he supposedly refused to acknowledge my character was a thief? Must be origin related. As for the ritual. He never says anything to me that was a lie. In my two origins he stated that there was no going back and that the cure required joining the wardens. He didn't say until the end that it might kill me, but he never said it wouldn't.



"Flemeth: Lies about who or what she is. Nearly everything she says 99% truth and 1% lie. A true master liar."



When does flemeth say she is or isn't anything? I don't know where she is supposed to say that she is an abomination? Not volunteering info and lying are two entirely different beasts.



"Morrigan: She lies about why she is really going along with the Grey Wardens & her goals vis a vis the end game."



No she tells you right off the bat she is only traveling with you because her mother commanded her to. That isn't a lie. She doesn't volunteer anything about the ritual, but she never lies about it.



"Alistair: Lies about his past. Lies about what he really wants. Lies when he states "I'll stand by another Grey Warden no matter what."



Well this is the simplest of all. Being a bastard of the king isn't something he was going to advertise to everyone he met. It would have been stupid. Now, the grey warden bit is human nature, you will go back on a lot of things when you are talking about letting a traitor and the man responsible for killing your allies and father figure live.



"Lelianna: Lies about spying. Lies about a bard's life. Lies about her former relationships."

What can I say, she was a spy and assassin, lying is her stock and trade. old habits die hard.



"Logain: Where do I even begin to account for his lies? He and his daughter.."



Royals and politics.

[Pyrusx]

You've never told a lie? Never kept a hidden agenda? Never blurred over the truth?



I think that the fact these characters "lie" makes them more real than if they were entirely open and upfront. Not many people in the world are really like that. Nearly everyone has something they're 'not telling you,' though I'm not sure if I even consider that lying.



I don't think most of the characters (other than, perhaps, Loghain, Anora and Jowan in the mage origin) directly lie to you, they just omit information. Even Zathrian doesn't directly lie as far as I can remember. I didn't notice any special emphasis.

[The Angry One]

I don't know, "Hi, I'm Alistair the royal bastard." could be a great pickup line at parties.

[TheSmilingDude]

I realize its *human* nature to lie

That's a lie.

[owl208]

Findarin wrote...

"Duncan: Lies about the ritual. Lies when he refuses to acknowledge that you are a thief. "
Don't know when he supposedly refused to acknowledge my character was a thief? Must be origin related.

It can happen with any origin.  If you steal in Ostagar enough times, a random knight will talk to Duncan (not a cutscene) and Duncan will refuse to admit you could be stealing since you are a Grey Warden. Then, in the next cut scene conversation, Duncan will speak to you about it.   It's pretty funny, so if you play through Ostagar again be sure not to miss it.

Modifié par owl208, 23 novembre 2009 - 05:40 .

[KalosCast]

Flemeth never comfirms, denies, or even bothers to explain what she is, she is a creature of so much power, it would be impossible to tell what is and isn't just her lying or reiterating legend, and there's no way to confirm or deny anything about her as fact or fiction so... fail on that one.

Duncan says that The Joining is dangerous, that's not a lie. He never says what the joining is, until the actual joining when he tells you what it is and therefore cannot lie to you about it... fail on that one.

I'll give you Loghain, since the whole "Grey Wardens are traitors" thing was almost a plot point.

Lelianna and Ailistair don't trust you enough with the sordid details of their past. Though, Alistair just sort of withholds his birthright, he doesn't claim it to be something else, he just doesn't tell you what his life was before going into the Chantry... half fail on that.

Anora isn't so much a liar as she is a backstabber. Her alliegances shift entirely based on who is the one who's most likely to prop her up into a position of power. It's clear in other Denerim cutscenes that she definitely has doubts as to the morality of her father's power grab and whether his actions are really for the good of Ferelden or going to damn them. As such, she looks for you as a potential ally, if you fail her in that is when she turns around and publicly supports Loghain, which would likely be enough to make him overlook any previous oppositions she had. If you're talking about the "selling out to Cauthrien" part, that only happens when you tell them that you're rescuing the queen, which is the direct opposite of what you agreed to do, meaning you are the liar... I can see where you're coming from on this one but still a fail.

[Insect]

owl208 wrote...

Findarin wrote...

"Duncan: Lies about the ritual. Lies when he refuses to acknowledge that you are a thief. "
Don't know when he supposedly refused to acknowledge my character was a thief? Must be origin related.

It can happen with any origin.  If you steal in Ostagar enough times, a random knight will talk to Duncan (not a cutscene) and Duncan will refuse to admit you could be stealing since you are a Grey Warden. Then, in the next cut scene conversation, Duncan will speak to you about it.   It's pretty funny, so if you play through Ostagar again be sure not to miss it.

Odd, on my latest playthrough I picked every single person's pockets in Ostagar and nobody complained about it; do you have to fail stealing a few times or something?

[KyoZ]

Everybody lies.



Do you not watch House?

[Elwoodw]

My dog never lied.

[Tsaritsyn]

Bah! There's almost not enough lying.



At the Landsmeet, when Loghain was going on about Orlesian infiltration, I suddenly had this flash of insight into the game's real plot twist. Loghain was right all along; Leliana obviously cares not a whit for my character, she was a honey trap from the beginning, working for the Orlesians to foment a civil war and weakness in Ferelden, with the PC as her tool! What a fool I'd been all along to trust her. Brilliantly done!



Oh, wait. Well, okay - he was just crazy after all and the former expert seductress really did fall for my elven city elf because he gave her a flower. Never mind!

[Dark83]

The OP has expanded the word "lie" to mean far too many things.



Also, the Dog is the most honest and loyal of your companions, true. It's also a shame there's no special cutscene for giving Sten the cake.

[Orfinn]

The Dog and Sten are the only pure non lying companions you can have, as far as I can tell.

[Laurelinde]

KyoZ wrote...

Everybody lies.

Do you not watch House?

Damn, you beat me to it!

Nobody just blurts out every dark secret or thought in their head the second they meet someone, let alone if they're involved in politics and war.  While honesty generally is the best policy, being too open can be very damaging for everyone.

[screwoffreg]

Tsaritsyn wrote...

Bah! There's almost not enough lying.

At the Landsmeet, when Loghain was going on about Orlesian infiltration, I suddenly had this flash of insight into the game's real plot twist. Loghain was right all along; Leliana obviously cares not a whit for my character, she was a honey trap from the beginning, working for the Orlesians to foment a civil war and weakness in Ferelden, with the PC as her tool! What a fool I'd been all along to trust her. Brilliantly done!

Oh, wait. Well, okay - he was just crazy after all and the former expert seductress really did fall for my elven city elf because he gave her a flower. Never mind!

I actually have had a feeling that Leilana's romance, out of all of them and should Bioware decide to conclude them (please), would be the one most slated for tragedy.  Either she betrays you or something else tragic befalls your romance.  The other side of the token is that perhaps the Morrigan romance may turn out for the best, as even if you decide not to follow her, I have a feeling that carrying a god child in your womb is likely to attract a lot of unwanted attention that may require a rescue.

[Suron]

TheSmilingDude wrote...

I realize its *human* nature to lie

That's a lie.

I see wut you did thar

[Vicious]

Elwoodw wrote...

My dog never lied.

He never lies to you.

However if you get captured by Ser Cauthrien and use him to save you, he most definetly lies to the guards.
Seriously.

[KalosCast]

Flemeth never comfirms, denies, or even bothers to explain what she is,
she is a creature of so much power, it would be impossible to tell what
is and isn't just her lying or reiterating legend, and there's no way
to confirm or deny anything about her as fact or fiction so... fail on
that one.

Duncan says that The Joining is dangerous, that's not
a lie. He never says what the joining is, until the actual joining when
he tells you what it is and therefore cannot lie to you about it...
fail on that one.

I'll give you Loghain, since the whole "Grey Wardens are traitors" thing was almost a plot point.

Lelianna
and Ailistair don't trust you enough with the sordid details of their
past. Though, Alistair just sort of withholds his birthright, he
doesn't claim it to be something else, he just doesn't tell you what
his life was before going into the Chantry... half fail on that.

Anora
isn't so much a liar as she is a backstabber. Her alliegances shift
entirely based on who is the one who's most likely to prop her up into
a position of power. It's clear in other Denerim cutscenes that she
definitely has doubts as to the morality of her father's power grab and
whether his actions are really for the good of Ferelden or going to
damn them. As such, she looks for you as a potential ally, if you fail
her in that is when she turns around and publicly supports Loghain,
which would likely be enough to make him overlook any previous
oppositions she had. If you're talking about the "selling out to
Cauthrien" part, that only happens when you tell them that you're
rescuing the queen, which is the direct opposite of what you agreed to
do, meaning you are the liar... I can see where you're coming from on this one but still a fail.

[red8x]

This is why they deserve the Blight, it is divine punishment from The Maker

[red8x]

sorry - double post

Modifié par red8x, 23 novembre 2009 - 08:21 .

[Eolath]

Alistair never lied, and in the short time we've seen him - neither did his brother Cailan.



Another reason to let either of them (Not that you can pick) become king. (Instead of that b!tch Anora)