276 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

daqs wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
and god dammit even Christina Norman admitted they went too far with the streamlining in ME2 and promised more depth in ME3

And there is more depth, sooo...what's the issue?

sorry was ranting about the whole ME1=RPG affair

I know ME3 will have better RPG features and depth

[GreenDragon37]

Lord Aesir wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

It's marketing talk, that's all.

Really, do you expect them to tell new players "If you haven't been a long time fan of the series, you shouldn't buy it"?

The idea is to draw fans into the series so they go back and buy the previous games. They are going to get fewer new fans if they try and get people to go play games that apparently didn't attract their interest already anyway so they can enjoy the new product.

No, I don 't expect that. But what I do expect is for BioWare to at least acknowledge and offer some praise to the games that made ME3 possible. Like a, "While you are waiting for ME3, you should try ME1 and ME2 to see what brought it to this epic showdown. Now available to reduced prices." That's not hard, is it? To give your older games some love and acknowledge them?

That is ME and ME2 marketing, not ME3 marketing.

That shouldn't matter one bit. Especially since the entire Mass Effect series was sold on the premise that choices carry over. "Choices matter." Too bad it really didn't in ME2. All to bring in the "new crowd". Oh well, ME3 may be a lot better with choices carrying over than ME2 was.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 19 janvier 2012 - 03:09 .

[Heimdall]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

It's marketing talk, that's all.

Really, do you expect them to tell new players "If you haven't been a long time fan of the series, you shouldn't buy it"?

The idea is to draw fans into the series so they go back and buy the previous games. They are going to get fewer new fans if they try and get people to go play games that apparently didn't attract their interest already anyway so they can enjoy the new product.

No, I don 't expect that. But what I do expect is for BioWare to at least acknowledge and offer some praise to the games that made ME3 possible. Like a, "While you are waiting for ME3, you should try ME1 and ME2 to see what brought it to this epic showdown. Now available to reduced prices." That's not hard, is it? To give your older games some love and acknowledge them?

That is ME and ME2 marketing, not ME3 marketing.

That shouldn't matter one bit. Especially since the entire Mass Effect series was sold on the premise that choices carry over. "Choices matter." Too bad it really didn't in ME2.

If they like ME3, new fans will feel inclined to look into the prior entries.  I don't see why this is an issue.

[GreenDragon37]

Lord Aesir wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

It's marketing talk, that's all.

Really, do you expect them to tell new players "If you haven't been a long time fan of the series, you shouldn't buy it"?

The idea is to draw fans into the series so they go back and buy the previous games. They are going to get fewer new fans if they try and get people to go play games that apparently didn't attract their interest already anyway so they can enjoy the new product.

No, I don 't expect that. But what I do expect is for BioWare to at least acknowledge and offer some praise to the games that made ME3 possible. Like a, "While you are waiting for ME3, you should try ME1 and ME2 to see what brought it to this epic showdown. Now available to reduced prices." That's not hard, is it? To give your older games some love and acknowledge them?

That is ME and ME2 marketing, not ME3 marketing.

That shouldn't matter one bit. Especially since the entire Mass Effect series was sold on the premise that choices carry over. "Choices matter." Too bad it really didn't in ME2.

If they like ME3, new fans will feel inclined to look into the prior entries.  I don't see why this is an issue.

Not all of them will. Especially since BioWare seems to be trying to draw in the Shooter crowd with Action Mode. They'll just complain how they can't skip dialogue and get back to shooting and say "Mass Effect is a shooter, not a dumb RPG with stats and choice."

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 19 janvier 2012 - 03:15 .

[Iakus]

Lord Aesir wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

It's marketing talk, that's all.

Really, do you expect them to tell new players "If you haven't been a long time fan of the series, you shouldn't buy it"?

The idea is to draw fans into the series so they go back and buy the previous games. They are going to get fewer new fans if they try and get people to go play games that apparently didn't attract their interest already anyway so they can enjoy the new product.

No, I don 't expect that. But what I do expect is for BioWare to at least acknowledge and offer some praise to the games that made ME3 possible. Like a, "While you are waiting for ME3, you should try ME1 and ME2 to see what brought it to this epic showdown. Now available to reduced prices." That's not hard, is it? To give your older games some love and acknowledge them?

That is ME and ME2 marketing, not ME3 marketing.

What could be better marketing for ME3 than ME1 and ME2?

[GreenDragon37]

iakus wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

It's marketing talk, that's all.

Really, do you expect them to tell new players "If you haven't been a long time fan of the series, you shouldn't buy it"?

The idea is to draw fans into the series so they go back and buy the previous games. They are going to get fewer new fans if they try and get people to go play games that apparently didn't attract their interest already anyway so they can enjoy the new product.

No, I don 't expect that. But what I do expect is for BioWare to at least acknowledge and offer some praise to the games that made ME3 possible. Like a, "While you are waiting for ME3, you should try ME1 and ME2 to see what brought it to this epic showdown. Now available to reduced prices." That's not hard, is it? To give your older games some love and acknowledge them?

That is ME and ME2 marketing, not ME3 marketing.

What could be better marketing for ME3 than ME1 and ME2?

What? Those relics? Choices, dialogue, delimmas? A story that involves the input of the player? Nah. It's all about shooting bad guys and explosions, now.
/sarcasm

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 19 janvier 2012 - 03:20 .

[Clone 071]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Nah. It's all about shooting bad guys and explosions, now.
/sarcasm

Yeah, might as well get Michael Bay to do this. 

[Vasparian]

This is simply a marketing thing. The people saying it in the commercials, and the mods here. They are paid to tell us the things they say. That said, I am fine with it. I know better than to believe the hype that comes with every new game. If I believed all the hype, then I would have been drooling over the nonsense that was DA2.

[DPSSOC]

GreenDragon37 wrote...
Not all of them will. Especially since BioWare seems to be trying to draw in the Shooter crowd with Action Mode. They'll just complain how they can't skip dialogue and get back to shooting and say "Mass Effect is a shooter, not a dumb RPG with stats and choice."

Let's say you're right, and they are aiming for the Shooter crowd.  Advertising ME2, and especially ME1 would be a terrible idea.  If they buy ME1, don't like it because it's not shooty enough they will never buy ME3 (which generates a better return than an ME1 or 2 sale would).  So they market ME3 and some people buy 1&2, or they market 1&2 and none of them buy 3.

[CannonO]

Vasparian wrote...

This is simply a marketing thing. The people saying it in the commercials, and the mods here. They are paid to tell us the things they say. That said, I am fine with it. I know better than to believe the hype that comes with every new game. If I believed all the hype, then I would have been drooling over the nonsense that was DA2.

I believed the marketing on ME1, it was reflected in the game, and I fell in love with it. Now I can stop trusting what BioWare is putting out at us, or believe them that they are showing an honest reflection of the game as a shooter? Neither of those seem like ideal routes in the lead-up to ME3.

It seems they want shooter fans to believe it is a shooter that they should want to buy now and for ME fans to believe it isn't that.

[twisty77]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I think Marketing is saying it is the best entry point in the series as it is the best overall installment to the series. The graphics are better, the combat is better, the writing is as good if not better, the story installment is better, and for someone who has not played any ME game before, they understand the basics easier than before (well, certainly than ME2).

I see everyone here complaining that "it isn't the best jumping on point" yet pretty much everyone I see say this knows ME1 and 2. Don't get me wrong, if you are thinking of ME strictly as a story, they yes, it is not the best jumping on point. However, if you look at each of the games as a stand alone entity, then yes I do think ME3 is the best jumping on point as the team has refined their craft best at this point.

This doesn't mean that ME and ME2 aren't also great in what they are. Personally, if a new player came up to me and asked which should they play first, I would probably say ME3. Just like most Star Wars fans say that Empire is the best Star Wars movie. It doesn't mean you can't see teh oterh films or that they aren't worth watching, just like you can play ME, then ME2 then ME3 or ME3 then ME2 then ME or whatever.

I find that it is fans who get upset by this statement as I think they feel slighted (somehow) and that their love of the previous games isn't important so they take umbridge and get upset. People need to remember that Marketing mostly speaks to non-fans to try to make them fans. This doesn't mean that what they say isn't true, just that what they say does not always reflect what core fans already know.

The man has a point. We are already fans. Marketing doesn't have to do anything to rope us in. Marketing's job is to bring people who have never played the ME series before into it, and they do that by saying our newest game is our best.

Marketing doesn't have to cater to us(the loyal, dedicated ME fan); marketing is there is rope new people in. We should be thanking the marketing people, actually: the more people they can get to buy the game, the more games devs will make.

[Bluko]

AlanC9 wrote...

@ Icinix: It's only marketing being silly if you expect marketing to give you objective and factual information in the first place, which is itself silly.

LOL yep. This is exactly why I don't give a Flying Batarian what any Dev or "Salesman" says about their game before release.  I'll believe it when I see it or hear it in the unlikely event that I become blind.


Still I will admit the "best entry point" speel is rather antagonizing. Also no offense but most fans of the series are going to tell other prospective buyers the exact opposite. This is kind of bad as it makes the marketing folks look to be con-men. That's not reputation you want to have. Even if you're someone who believes ME1 has "crappy" gameplay most will recommend it be first played due to the story and for carrying over a Shepard through the Trilogy. I mean seriously no comic recap can do ME1 justice.

What I don't get is why there isn't a "Mass Effect Saga"? Seriously you're missing an opportunity here to sell ME1 and ME2 while you still can.

Why not sell the "complete experience" for like $90 or something that includes all three games? Or in essence you could have made a Collector's Edition  or Limited Edition that includes all three? I'm guessing the only reason this hasn't happened is namely because ME1 doesn't have the EA logo. So it is evil forbidden. Granted that sums up Microsoft pretty well. But if I were EA I would wretch ME1 from Microsoft's feeble hands. Though it is a bit odd ME3 is being developed with Kinect support. Microsoft must still be in good graces with Bioware. I dunno I don't get it. Granted I understand there cannot be PS3 "Mass Effect Saga", but there should seriously be something like that for PC and Xbox 360.

[Kai Hohiro]

This actually happens to me with books all the god damn time.
I buy/borrow/rent a book, incredibly enjoy it and find out it's part of a large series. So I often go back and buy the rest.
And sometimes the first volumes in a series aren't all that great but I still read them because I enjoy finding out all the background that led up to the events in part X. But if they had been the first ones I read I might have never become a fan of the series.

So I honestly can't agree with the sentiment "YOU MUST START AT #1 OR YOU DONT GET IT", because from my own experience I know that's often not really the case.
If a story/game/movie whatever is great by itself you can enjoy it perfectly fine out of sequence.

Hell if I had only watched Aliens(2) and never Alien(1), I would have still been perfectly content with the movie.

[FrostedIce]

Lord Aesir wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

It's marketing talk, that's all.

Really, do you expect them to tell new players "If you haven't been a long time fan of the series, you shouldn't buy it"?

The idea is to draw fans into the series so they go back and buy the previous games. They are going to get fewer new fans if they try and get people to go play games that apparently didn't attract their interest already anyway so they can enjoy the new product.

No, I don 't expect that. But what I do expect is for BioWare to at least acknowledge and offer some praise to the games that made ME3 possible. Like a, "While you are waiting for ME3, you should try ME1 and ME2 to see what brought it to this epic showdown. Now available to reduced prices." That's not hard, is it? To give your older games some love and acknowledge them?

That is ME and ME2 marketing, not ME3 marketing.

That shouldn't matter one bit. Especially since the entire Mass Effect series was sold on the premise that choices carry over. "Choices matter." Too bad it really didn't in ME2.

If they like ME3, new fans will feel inclined to look into the prior entries.  I don't see why this is an issue.

Exactly. I discovered the ME series through ME2 and I absolutely loved it, which drove me to get ME1. If it werent for me wanting to know the whole story I probably would not have finished ME1 because the gameplay didn't suit me as well as I hoped. If new fans start with ME3 and like it, they'll most likely go get the other two games.

[AlanC9]

crimzontearz wrote...

and here is what I do not get. The combat in an RPG is a representation of how your character's build handles, it is just an interface at least visually.....it is not the fulcrum of the game play.Do people complain that Diablo's or BG's combat system is not as engaging as GOW's DMC's or NG'S? no....because they are different games. In ME1 combat was clunky yes but because it was just an interface just like it is for other RPGs. Yes....I am not going to complain if the combat interface evolves to become as engaging as the combat game play of a shooter in this case as long as the RPG features are not lost...

You're serious?

Of course combat is the "fulcrum of game play." Besides dialog choices and watching cutscenes, that's the game. That's what we're doing when we play ME.

[AlanC9]

Bluko wrote...
Still I will admit the "best entry point" speel is rather antagonizing. Also no offense but most fans of the series are going to tell other prospective buyers the exact opposite. This is kind of bad as it makes the marketing folks look to be con-men. That's not reputation you want to have.

That's a good point. Even as a ME2 fan, I don't think ME1 is so much worse that I would have a new player avoid it in favor of ME2.

Though I suspect folks like FrostedIce are actually kind of common.

Modifié par AlanC9, 19 janvier 2012 - 06:15 .

[CannonO]

AlanC9 wrote...

Bluko wrote...
Still I will admit the "best entry point" speel is rather antagonizing. Also no offense but most fans of the series are going to tell other prospective buyers the exact opposite. This is kind of bad as it makes the marketing folks look to be con-men. That's not reputation you want to have.

That's a good point. Even as a ME2 fan, I don't think ME1 is so much worse that I would have a new player avoid it in favor of ME2.

Though I suspect folks like FrostedIce are actually kind of common.

Seriously, if someone asked about Mass Effect, would you tell them not to play Mass Effect 1? I think most of us can agree that we recommend new player experience the trilogy if they can. No need to skip any of it IMO.

[AlanC9]

CannonLars wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Bluko wrote...
Still I will admit the "best entry point" speel is rather antagonizing. Also no offense but most fans of the series are going to tell other prospective buyers the exact opposite. This is kind of bad as it makes the marketing folks look to be con-men. That's not reputation you want to have.

That's a good point. Even as a ME2 fan, I don't think ME1 is so much worse that I would have a new player avoid it in favor of ME2.

Though I suspect folks like FrostedIce are actually kind of common.

Seriously, if someone asked about Mass Effect, would you tell them not to play Mass Effect 1? I think most of us can agree that we recommend new player experience the trilogy if they can. No need to skip any of it IMO.

Reading comprehension broken, Lars? I just said that I don't think that. You quoted me saying that I don't think that. 

I would tell people to start with BG2, but I wouldn't tell them to start with ME2

Though now that I think about it, I might be wrong about that. I know a few gamers who didn't like ME1 because of its awful combat and inventory systems. I can't convince them to try ME2 because those aspects of ME1 were so bad. They're losing out on ME2 and ME3, which I believe they would have liked. The'd be much better off if they had started with ME2.

Edit: so I guess it depends on who I'm talking to. And like I said upthread, RPG fans have already made up their minds about ME; there's no sense marketing to them anymore.

If someone's indifferent to the RPG genre, will he like ME1?

Modifié par AlanC9, 19 janvier 2012 - 06:53 .

[CannonO]

AlanC9 wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Bluko wrote...
Still I will admit the "best entry point" speel is rather antagonizing. Also no offense but most fans of the series are going to tell other prospective buyers the exact opposite. This is kind of bad as it makes the marketing folks look to be con-men. That's not reputation you want to have.

That's a good point. Even as a ME2 fan, I don't think ME1 is so much worse that I would have a new player avoid it in favor of ME2.

Though I suspect folks like FrostedIce are actually kind of common.

Seriously, if someone asked about Mass Effect, would you tell them not to play Mass Effect 1? I think most of us can agree that we recommend new player experience the trilogy if they can. No need to skip any of it IMO.

Reading comprehension broken, Lars? I just said that I don't think that. You quoted me saying that I don't think that. 

I would tell people to start with BG2, but I wouldn't tell them to start with ME2

Though now that I think about it, I might be wrong about that. I know a few gamers who didn't like ME1 because of its awful combat and inventory systems. I can't convince them to try ME2 because those aspects of ME1 were so bad. They're losing out on ME2 and ME3, which I believe they would have liked. The'd be much better off if they had started with ME2.

Edit: so I guess it depends on who I'm talking to. And like I said upthread, RPG fans have already made up their minds about ME; there's no sense marketing to them anymore.

If someone's indifferent to the RPG genre, will he like ME1?

I was backing you up mister. Read what I was saying and it makes more sense to catch that my statement is a supportive echo of what you voiced. 

[mybudgee]

Watch for an employee of bioware who has a shred of integrity and maybe a liquid lunch at some point, maybe early summer to say; "what, the 'ME3 great entry point' line? Ha! What a crock!"

Modifié par mybudgee, 19 janvier 2012 - 08:42 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Stop trying to rationalize marketing, especially Bioware marketing. They will say ANYTHING to sell their game. Don't take anything Bioware marketing says with any amount of credibility.

I mean not even Cliffy B went out of his way to mention how GoW3 was the best entry point at each interview.

Souless marketing is souless.

[mybudgee]

I want to hang out with Cliffy on March 6th!

[AlanC9]

CannonLars wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Bluko wrote...
Still I will admit the "best entry point" speel is rather antagonizing. Also no offense but most fans of the series are going to tell other prospective buyers the exact opposite. This is kind of bad as it makes the marketing folks look to be con-men. That's not reputation you want to have.

That's a good point. Even as a ME2 fan, I don't think ME1 is so much worse that I would have a new player avoid it in favor of ME2.

Though I suspect folks like FrostedIce are actually kind of common.

Seriously, if someone asked about Mass Effect, would you tell them not to play Mass Effect 1? I think most of us can agree that we recommend new player experience the trilogy if they can. No need to skip any of it IMO.

Reading comprehension broken, Lars? I just said that I don't think that. You quoted me saying that I don't think that. 

I would tell people to start with BG2, but I wouldn't tell them to start with ME2

Though now that I think about it, I might be wrong about that. I know a few gamers who didn't like ME1 because of its awful combat and inventory systems. I can't convince them to try ME2 because those aspects of ME1 were so bad. They're losing out on ME2 and ME3, which I believe they would have liked. The'd be much better off if they had started with ME2.

Edit: so I guess it depends on who I'm talking to. And like I said upthread, RPG fans have already made up their minds about ME; there's no sense marketing to them anymore.

If someone's indifferent to the RPG genre, will he like ME1?

I was backing you up mister. Read what I was saying and it makes more sense to catch that my statement is a supportive echo of what you voiced. 

Heh. Looks like it's my reading comprehension that's blown. Sorry about that.