276 réponses à ce sujet

[HolyAvenger]

Anyone who advocates starting out at any point other than with ME1 has rocks in their head. Seriously. ME3 might be the best game in the series, but an entry point with two games worth of worldbuilding, characters already done it can be in no way as good a starting point as the original.

I don't even start characters in 2. My Shepards have to be imported from 1, otherwise they don't feel as well-built a character.

[Mike Shepard]

MadLaughter wrote...

I am of the opinion that watching things out of order, reading things out of order, or playing them out of order is a huge waste. If a character dies in Mass Effect 3, you will by definition care less about it only playing ME3 than you would if you had spent dozens of hours with them in ME1 or 2. If you want the emotional bang for your buck, this is the worst way to go.

Starting with ME3: "Oh hey, ME3 is cool! Gonna try the others! ME2 was pretty good, not as good as 3, didn't play with ____ squadmate since they die anyways.....ME1 is alright, not great though.."

As opposed to starting at the beginning. "ME1 is pretty good! Oh man, ME2 is even better! Wow, ME3 is the best one yet! I cried when _____ died" Overall enjoyment is better here.

I agree with your general sentiments. I'll add this: If I started with ME3 and within the first, say, hour, Ash or Kaidan took a bullet to the brain and died, I'd be like "oh well it's war stuff happens." if I started with ME1, I already had to choose between them, and since I think each was good in their own way, I was sad to have to choose, I'd be like OH NO!!! if they died in 3. and if a character from 2, let's say Grunt, got killed in 3, but I hadn't played 2, I'd be like oh no the Krogan just got weaker. that will hurt the war effort. But Grunt is right up there with Wrex in my book so I'd be really sad if he died and again I had gotten to "know" him. These characters are deeply personal to some degree, so if you play the third without the first or second, it's not as personal.


BTW. as bad as Phantom Menace was, it isn't nearly as awful as Attack of the Teen Angst...I mean Attack of the Clones. how silly of me to make that mistake....:innocent:

[Tiger]

MadLaughter wrote...

I am of the opinion that watching things out of order, reading things out of order, or playing them out of order is a huge waste. If a character dies in Mass Effect 3, you will by definition care less about it only playing ME3 than you would if you had spent dozens of hours with them in ME1 or 2. If you want the emotional bang for your buck, this is the worst way to go.

Starting with ME3: "Oh hey, ME3 is cool! Gonna try the others! ME2 was pretty good, not as good as 3, didn't play with ____ squadmate since they die anyways.....ME1 is alright, not great though.."

As opposed to starting at the beginning. "ME1 is pretty good! Oh man, ME2 is even better! Wow, ME3 is the best one yet! I cried when _____ died" Overall enjoyment is better here.

This right here ^

[Cancer Puppet]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I think Marketing is saying it is the best entry point in the series as it is the best overall installment to the series. The graphics are better, the combat is better, the writing is as good if not better, the story installment is better, and for someone who has not played any ME game before, they understand the basics easier than before (well, certainly than ME2).

I see everyone here complaining that "it isn't the best jumping on point" yet pretty much everyone I see say this knows ME1 and 2. Don't get me wrong, if you are thinking of ME strictly as a story, they yes, it is not the best jumping on point. However, if you look at each of the games as a stand alone entity, then yes I do think ME3 is the best jumping on point as the team has refined their craft best at this point.

This doesn't mean that ME and ME2 aren't also great in what they are. Personally, if a new player came up to me and asked which should they play first, I would probably say ME3. Just like most Star Wars fans say that Empire is the best Star Wars movie. It doesn't mean you can't see teh oterh films or that they aren't worth watching, just like you can play ME, then ME2 then ME3 or ME3 then ME2 then ME or whatever.

I find that it is fans who get upset by this statement as I think they feel slighted (somehow) and that their love of the previous games isn't important so they take umbridge and get upset. People need to remember that Marketing mostly speaks to non-fans to try to make them fans. This doesn't mean that what they say isn't true, just that what they say does not always reflect what core fans already know.

Well, that was very articulate and sensible.

From a story focused perspective, ME3 is indeed the least logical place to start. From a gameplay experience perspective, it may well be. Time will certainly tell.

That said, something feels wrong when I don't get the impression that Chris is lying.

[Helena Tylena]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

What do you expect marketing to say? "Don't play this game if you haven't touched the others"?

That'd be hilarious, though.

Wouldn't it also be great if he said "There's plenty of time to go out and play through the other 2 games before this one comes out".

Would that not, if people followed through, also make them money? And sound significantly less ridiculous.

People are more likely to buy just one game, rather than a whole series in one go. And the third game is more recent, and therefor is prices more favourably for the people selling it. 
At least, that'd be my guess, but I wouldn't rely on my sketchy knowledge of marketing.

[AndrewRogue]

Except that's silly if you are at all trying to attract people who aren't already part of your base. Telling people, "No, you have to buy and play these two other games first!" is not a real good way to bring new people into it.

Its the issue superhero comics have. So much background and continuity that you intimidate potential new readers bad enough that they don't get involved because they don't want to have to invest $X or X hours to be able to understand this new thing that caught their eye.

[JeffZero]

AOTC was definitely the worst from a storytelling standpoint.

Ahem, sorry. Carry on.

[DJBare]

Chris Priestly wrote...
I see everyone here complaining that "it isn't the best jumping on point" yet pretty much everyone I see say this knows ME1 and 2. Don't get me wrong, if you are thinking of ME strictly as a story, they yes, it is not the best jumping on point. However, if you look at each of the games as a stand alone entity, then yes I do think ME3 is the best jumping on point as the team has refined their craft best at this point.

I started out with ME1 so cannot use that as an example, I can however use other examples. after purchasing the second installement of a couple of well known games, I just had to get their first installements to get the history and lore, seriously, looking up wiki's on games history and lore is boring!, the way I see it, folk will accept ME3 as an entry point and while playing decide to try the others in the series, more sales is a good thing.

[naledgeborn]

AotC was so corny *looks at Anakin and Padme*

[Mike Shepard]

JeffZero wrote...

AOTC was definitely the worst from a storytelling standpoint.

Ahem, sorry. Carry on.

I actually went to the ticket office and demanded my money back after clones.


wanna guess how that went?


any I started with 1 as well (actually got my friend hooked on it too, so yay i get extra points....) and I reserved my first Collectors' Edition purchase of the series for 3. it's the last of the trilogy, so I wanted to do it right.

[Jackal7713]

Chris made a good point. If you can bring in new people and they Like ME 3 then they'll want to see what they missed in ME 1 and ME 2. I have the Copy of PS3 ME 2, However, I knew I was missing the over all experience because I didn't have a imported save from ME 1. So I grabbed up a copy of ME1 and ME 2 for 360 so my ME 3 experience would be epic.

I only wish that Xbox Market Place had the Terminus Armor and Singularity Heavy weapon for sale as they do for PS3 Store. That was the best heavy weapon in ME 2.

Modifié par Jackal7713, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:26 .

[Tiger]

DJBare wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...
I see everyone here complaining that "it isn't the best jumping on point" yet pretty much everyone I see say this knows ME1 and 2. Don't get me wrong, if you are thinking of ME strictly as a story, they yes, it is not the best jumping on point. However, if you look at each of the games as a stand alone entity, then yes I do think ME3 is the best jumping on point as the team has refined their craft best at this point.

I started out with ME1 so cannot use that as an example, I can however use other examples. after purchasing the second installement of a couple of well known games, I just had to get their first installements to get the history and lore, seriously, looking up wiki's on games history and lore is boring!, the way I see it, folk will accept ME3 as an entry point and while playing decide to try the others in the series, more sales is a good thing.

While i agree more sales is a good thing, you dont want to alienate your fanbase that got you where you are by saying Mass Effect 3 is the best entry point in the series when its the last one in the series.

[RainyDayLover]

This is nothing compared to when the creators of Metal Gear said that you didn't need to know the events and backstory of the previous MGS games to play MGS4.

[Mike Shepard]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

AOTC was definitely the worst from a storytelling standpoint.

Ahem, sorry. Carry on.

I stand by TPM being the worst movie. I personally think AotC was the best (for what little that's worth) of the prequal trilogy.

Revenge of the Sith was the best, and that's not saying a lot. The entire prequel trilogy was at best a joke and at worst akin to having your wisdom teeth yanked sans laughing gas whilst wide awake. in other words, extremely painful, but Sith was the least painful. Well for everyone except Anakin.

[Rockworm503]

RainyDayLover wrote...

This is nothing compared to when the creators of Metal Gear said that you didn't need to know the events and backstory of the previous MGS games to play MGS4.

HAHA I been a fan of MGS since the beginning and I don't even understand it!

[JeffZero]

RainyDayLover wrote...

This is nothing compared to when the creators of Metal Gear said that you didn't need to know the events and backstory of the previous MGS games to play MGS4.

Uh-huh, yeah, that was amazing. Ryan Payton kept claiming it was a solid jumping-in point during KP podcasts. Everyone on GameFAQs with me was laughing hysterically. That's one series you really don't play the last one first with.

[naledgeborn]

Dude, the last 20 minutes is the only good thing about AotC. Yoda vs Tyrannus FTW!

[habitat 67]

JeffZero wrote...

RainyDayLover wrote...

This is nothing compared to when the creators of Metal Gear said that you didn't need to know the events and backstory of the previous MGS games to play MGS4.

Uh-huh, yeah, that was amazing. Ryan Payton kept claiming it was a solid jumping-in point during KP podcasts. Everyone on GameFAQs with me was laughing hysterically. That's one series you really don't play the last one first with.

Uh oh, that is good to know. I have not played MGS yet and can't wait to start.

[100k]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I think Marketing is saying it is the best entry point in the series as it is the best overall installment to the series. The graphics are better, the combat is better, the writing is as good if not better, the story installment is better, and for someone who has not played any ME game before, they understand the basics easier than before (well, certainly than ME2).

Agreed.

I see everyone here complaining that "it isn't the best jumping on point" yet pretty much everyone I see say this knows ME1 and 2. Don't get me wrong, if you are thinking of ME strictly as a story, they yes, it is not the best jumping on point. However, if you look at each of the games as a stand alone entity, then yes I do think ME3 is the best jumping on point as the team has refined their craft best at this point.

Agreed... but you should change Mass Effect 2's "2" to a subtitle then so that people know that they are games that share a series, not part of a trilogy...

This doesn't mean that ME and ME2 aren't also great in what they are. Personally, if a new player came up to me and asked which should they play first, I would probably say ME3. Just like most Star Wars fans say that Empire is the best Star Wars movie. It doesn't mean you can't see teh oterh films or that they aren't worth watching, just like you can play ME, then ME2 then ME3 or ME3 then ME2 then ME or whatever.

See, HERE is the problem.

Yes, most SWs fans (myself included) will say that Empire is best. MOST SW fans (myself included) however will tell you to WATCH New Hope BEFORE Empire Strikes Back. 

(they'll also tell you to ignore the prequels because they are absolute sh!t)

There is a difference between watching/playing what is best, and watching/playing what makes the most sense. The fact that you are more willing to disgregard your previous games than advocate a game that hasn't come out is what pisses fans off. Why? Because it *appears* that you, Bioware's staff, and EA DON'T have as much confidence in your previous titles mechanics (be they visuals, game play, or story). Almost like you're afraid that Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 will scare away potential buyers, rather than attract new ones.

Of course, you should KNOW that that just isn't the case, seeing as how well recieved your previous titles were.
:whistle:

I find that it is fans who get upset by this statement as I think they feel slighted (somehow) and that their love of the previous games isn't important so they take umbridge and get upset. People need to remember that Marketing mostly speaks to non-fans to try to make them fans. This doesn't mean that what they say isn't true, just that what they say does not always reflect what core fans already know.

And I understand and respect that. But I would expect YOU, as a community leader here, to appreciate all of the past work Bioware has done with this series, not to mention the millions of fans that have helped expand the potential of the trilogy. Hell, you frequent these forums every day. You have only to look through the first few threads on any given page to see how excited fans-- people who haven't worked on the series -- are in endorsing it and its material.

I'm not afraid to admit that (at least as far as game play goes) ME3>ME2>ME1. And here in lies my basic point--

Wouldn't you rather have people see this series improve with each game? Nobody wants to start with a superb game (like ME3 will probably be) and go down to a comparibly inferior (but still great) game. 

Geth analogy: Wouldn't you rather to start off a semseter with B- s and work your way up to A+ s, rather than the other way around (not that either of those grades should be compared to Mass Effect)?


New fan: Oh wow, this game looks great!
BW: Yeah its pretty cool! We have a demo coming out for it soon.
New fan: I can't wait to get my hands on it!
BW: You know what's better than a Mass Effect 3 demo? Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 the games! You'll enjoy them and they'll really help you get into this third game. 
New fan: Two entire Mass Effect games I haven't played *le gasp* awesome! How different are they from this footage?
BW: They're pretty different. But they're still similar enough, and well crafted enough to be highly enjoyable! Plus you can probably get them for great deals.
New fan: I think I'll check them out!
BW: And don't forget to pick up the Mass Effect 3 demo when it comes out!
New fan: Oh wow, and who's this sexy guy on BSN named 100k? I really wanna make sweet sweet love to him!
BW: Me too. Me too... *forever alone*

[Luigitornado]

Video games are so dynamic in that story isn't the only thing they have going for them. However; Mass Effect's story is important to so many of the users (because it's pretty good by video game standards) here on BSN that it seems almost asinine to suggest that players should start at ME3.

I see both sides of the argument; however, I don't get all uptight about hearing marketing doing what they are suppose to be doing. But then again...it does make me worry that Bioware is too concerned with getting new fans than keeping the ones they got. And if they can't keep the promises that they made with ME1. Consider this fan lost!

Modifié par Luigitornado, 18 janvier 2012 - 02:36 .

[RainyDayLover]

Rockworm503 wrote...

RainyDayLover wrote...

This is nothing compared to when the creators of Metal Gear said that you didn't need to know the events and backstory of the previous MGS games to play MGS4.

HAHA I been a fan of MGS since the beginning and I don't even understand it!

xD

Yeah, basically...at least Casey and Co. aren't outright lying like those guys. You can obviously tell it's BS marketing when they make as vague a statement as "It's a great entry point in the series". I can't see what else they could say without scaring away potential new customers.

[tetrisblock4x1]

JeffZero wrote...

I like your avatar Jeff. John Crichton was a great character, Farscape = best sci-fi show ever.