22 réponses à ce sujet

[Promethean 47]

I know there's already a community fix for this, but I think Bioware ought to go and fix this in the next patch release.

The problem: Arcane Warriors must first sheath their weapons before casting some spells, but not others.

The Fix: Make either all spells castable with a weapon in hand, or none of them.

Why this fix makes sense:  It makes little sense for (and there is no explanation whatsoever as to why) for certain magical spells to be castable while holding an item in one's hands and for others not to be so.  This is also non-sensical in light of mages being able to freely cast while holding staffs.  While I can see the argument that staffs are somehow magically charged and thereby don't interfere with casting, that really doesn't explain away the first point (i.e. that some spells can be cast with weapons and others can't).  Plus, as demonstrated by the community having already solved this, the solution is easy.

[T0rin3]

Maybe it's an issue of balance, not common sense?

[doubledeviant]

T0rin3 wrote...

Maybe it's an issue of balance, not common sense?

For balance, I vote:

a) gimp Shimmering Shield to match convention/description by ending when mana reaches zero
allow AWs to cast spells without sheathing weapons

Sheathing weapons before casting is non-sensical and annoying.

[T0rin3]

AW is just fine the way it is if you fix the Shimmering Shield _bug_. Certain types of spells, mainly direct damage spells, require you to sheathe your weapon. Personally, I see the balance here, if you want to go back and forth between combat mage and normal mage, there should be some kind of delay. If you want to cast a heal or targeted debuff, it doesn't have any delay... it kind of fits the theme of what an Arcane Warrior is.. Shimmering Shield is just an outright bug.

[Sarethus]

Problem is that this sheath issue is not dependent on the type of spell. If only damage spells were affected it would not be a bug, same if only particular types of spells being free to cast with a weapon.



The problem is though that the spells which make you sheath your weapon and those that don't seems completely random. As if the developers had taken played eenie meenie minee moe when choosing which spells use which animation.

[FDKpancho]

weapon sheathing when casting isn't great. just used AW to have nice armor and went to melee after using up all my mana. i had a sword that regenerated mana so it was a fair deal. then when my mana was up again changed to staf and repeated.

at first the enemies almost killed me when i was sheathing my weapons before zapping them on their faces. then i discovered the mentioned sword and changed tactics.

you should try it, it works cool and gives you an excuse to stop cating spells and hitting enemies with your rune filled weapons

[Promethean 47]

Sarethus wrote...

Problem is that this sheath issue is not dependent on the type of spell. If only damage spells were affected it would not be a bug, same if only particular types of spells being free to cast with a weapon.

The problem is though that the spells which make you sheath your weapon and those that don't seems completely random. As if the developers had taken played eenie meenie minee moe when choosing which spells use which animation.

Agreed.

[T0rin3]

Sarethus wrote...

Problem is that this sheath issue is not dependent on the type of spell. If only damage spells were affected it would not be a bug, same if only particular types of spells being free to cast with a weapon.

The problem is though that the spells which make you sheath your weapon and those that don't seems completely random. As if the developers had taken played eenie meenie minee moe when choosing which spells use which animation.

Personally, I think you should have to sheath your weapon before casting any kind of spell. Arcane Warrior is that good.

[LacrimaImber]

BioWare has already stated that the gameplay was based more on balance than on a sense of realism. I think the reason they put the "sheathing before casting" restriction in the game was because they didn't want you to be able to fight as well as a warrior and cast spells as efficiently as a mage at the same time. I'm not sure why they chose some spells over others for this restriction, but there must be a reason for it, and I'm willing to bet it's because of a balance issue. I seriously doubt they'll just completely do away with the whole sheathing thing, and in all honestly there are far more important things for BioWare to worry about when it comes to mages. Arcane Warriors, Blood Mages, Forcefield, Cone of Cold...they all seem to work as intended and a lot of people enjoy using them, so how about focusing on the spells/skills that aren't working or that aren't as enjoyable/viable as they should/could be?

[Unbroken Lineage]

It's fine exactly as it is. There must be some penalty for wielding a non-staff, and this is it.

[Sarethus]

*shrug* I'm not arguing for them to remove weapon sheathing or even to add it for all spells. What I would like is clarity. If there was a simple rule that all damage or whatever type of spells make you sheath your weapon I could understand and work with that restriction however what we have is a mix of some spells which do and some spells which don't without any guidance.



Failing that I would have liked some guidance or Tool-tips etc when picking out these spells. It's very annoying to become an arcane warrior and then find that most of the spells you picked require you to sheath your weapon, especially as you can't respec. If they had told us which spells require me to sheath my sword in advance I could have picked out different ones.



Note: Frankly I am in favour of not having a respec option but without a respec option, the game should provide details that allow players to make informed choices without having to play through multiple times.

[mstot]

What annoys me is that there really isn't any clear sense as to why some require sheathing. Arcane bolt doesn't require it, yet all of the single target primal spells require sheathing. I can understand having to sheath my weapons to summon a pillar of flame or lighting storm, but neither require it.

[AKOdin]

What Sarethus said. I really don't understand the purpose in obscuring the numbers in a single player game, especially when the toolset is released... making the numbers available for those with the inclination. If they aren't going to be top secret, why not just have an "advanced tool-tip" option that shows numbers built into the game?



The whole "sheath to cast" thing caught me off guard with my AW, and I would have weighed spell selection very differently had I known in advance.



I really would like to have been a fly on the wall at Bioware when the idea of limiting the numerical information in game came up... what was the argument that carried the day?

[LacrimaImber]

Sarethus wrote...

*shrug* I'm not arguing for them to remove weapon sheathing or even to add it for all spells. What I would like is clarity. If there was a simple rule that all damage or whatever type of spells make you sheath your weapon I could understand and work with that restriction however what we have is a mix of some spells which do and some spells which don't without any guidance.

Failing that I would have liked some guidance or Tool-tips etc when picking out these spells. It's very annoying to become an arcane warrior and then find that most of the spells you picked require you to sheath your weapon, especially as you can't respec. If they had told us which spells require me to sheath my sword in advance I could have picked out different ones.

Note: Frankly I am in favour of not having a respec option but without a respec option, the game should provide details that allow players to make informed choices without having to play through multiple times.

This is an issue that just about every mage player has complained about since day one.  The lack of a detailed spell guide is seriously annoying.  There is no reason why there shouldn't be one.  I restarted 3 or 4 times before I got the idea to get up to Lothering and save before I spent a single spell point beyond the initial character creation spell selection.  I got to Lothering with about 7 spell points to use and am in the process of testing various spells using that save.  It also saves me from having to repeat the origin story and Ostagar every time I've built myself into a corner.  I know they want to show off the game's replayability, but having to continually start over because of a lack of specific information is really excessive.

[Aether99]

Even if its a issue of balance...it wasnt implemented using common sense.

Really easy work around.

Know which spells require sheathe to cast.  Then use the pause option, switch your weapon set (keep a alternate weapon set for this) then switch back...your weapons will be sheathed on yoru back automatically and you can then que the spell and cast it fine.  While it takes about 1 second longer then just hitting the button...it executes teh spells much faster overall.

I do this, It almost completly negates the sheath to cast hindrance (other then the fact that you have to take your weapons out again to melee..but its much faster then sheathing, casting, then taking weapons out again)

So either fix it so you cant do this work around, or get rid of the sheath to cast animation.

[doubledeviant]

T0rin3 wrote...

Personally, I think you should have to sheath your weapon before casting any kind of spell. Arcane Warrior is that good.

I don't think that's fair.  Specialization points are rare, and spell points are valuable.  If I spec to AW and use my spell points towards the AW tree, why should I be penalized with sheath-to-cast?  I'm already penalized with a severe fatigue penalty, remember?  All my spells cost double to cast.

Too many people want to gimp AW.  I say make the other classes stronger instead if you're concerned about balance, and leave my AW alone.

Modifié par doubledeviant, 25 novembre 2009 - 11:00 .

[dannythefool]

doubledeviant wrote...
I don't think that's fair.  Specialization points are rare, and spell points are valuable.  If I spec to AW and use my spell points towards the AW tree, why should I be penalized with sheath-to-cast?  I'm already penalized with a severe fatigue penalty, remember?  All my spells cost double to cast.

You're only actually penalised if you want to run around as a warrior with a sword. Your spells don't cost more just because you spend the spec point, and you still get to wear heavier armour that without combat magic active doesn't really make spellcasting too expensive... especially if you pick the right set.
There's hardly anything wrong with severe penalties to spellcasting when your mage insists on running around like a warrior with exotic party buffs...

Modifié par dannythefool, 25 novembre 2009 - 11:07 .

[doubledeviant]

dannythefool wrote...

You're only actually penalised if you want to run around as a warrior with a sword. Your spells don't cost more just because you spend the spec point, and you still get to wear heavier armour that without combat magic active doesn't really make spellcasting too expensive... especially if you pick the right set.
There's hardly anything wrong with severe penalties to spellcasting when your mage insists on running around like a warrior with exotic party buffs...

Running around like a warrior is the point.  It's called Arcane Warrior, remember?

Also, I don't see anything unfair about being able to wear armor.  That's called getting something for your spec point.

The solution isn't to handicap the AW but instead to make the other classes worth playing.

[Vabjekf]

Just remove auto-unsheath in combat, add a button that toggles sheathing weapons

[soteria]

Amazing, it's the WoW boards all over again. "Rogues aren't overpowered, every other class is gimped."



I'm not saying AW is or isn't OP since I've never tried it, but that logic is abysmally poor.

[doubledeviant]

soteria wrote...

Amazing, it's the WoW boards all over again. "Rogues aren't overpowered, every other class is gimped."

I'm not saying AW is or isn't OP since I've never tried it, but that logic is abysmally poor.

How so?  The AW is fun and (if you don't abuse the Shimmering Shield) balanced.  In contrast, classes like the Shapeshifter are so underpowered (long cast times, no casting while shifted PLUS not getting all abilities for each form, small variety of forms, etc) that it's no fun to play one.  I don't know about you, but I'm damned tired of the ridiculous AD&D 2.0 mentality that all classes/kits must be so underpowered as to discourage choosing them.

Modifié par doubledeviant, 25 novembre 2009 - 12:35 .

[moridenm]

i think if your useing a one handed weapon and nothing in the other hand then there should be no delay. otherwise there should be a delay for all spells. would give a reason to fight with a longsword and nothng in the off hand. and make sensein that you have one hand free to cast spells with.

[Flobulon]

Well, here it is:

http://social.bioware.com/project/960/

Simply extract to your override folder.

Please note that while it should cause no problems in theory, I can guarantee nothing, and unfortunately am not in a position to test it as much as I would like. However, from what I can tell it does seem to be working.

Please tell me if all goes well

EDIT: Doh, I am teh fail. Didn't realise there was already a fix for this. Oh well, it was good practice.

Modifié par Flobulon, 25 novembre 2009 - 03:17 .