121 réponses à ce sujet

[Rudy Lis]

Relix28 wrote...

I think everyone hates synchronized versions of their favourite games and other media as well for that matter. Basically, any kind of media synhronized into foreign language turns out.....well, horrible. It looses it's authenticity, there are usually lip sync issues, sometimes the voice itself really doesn't fit the character, and I could go on.
Why they insist on localizing media in certain countries is beyond me. I can understand the multi-language subtitles (wich should be enough, and it's a much cheaper process compared to full voice-overs), but the attrocious voice overs are beyond me.
/rant off
Yeah, I tend to get pretty frustrated, when I see fellow gamers are getting screwed by incompetent shot-calling dinosaurs.

Where is applauding smilie when you need one?
Well said.

I think lip-sync is least of all problems - few games have that degree of realism where you can tell that you have been "cheated". Maybe newest, like BF3 - in older games lips moves in fish-like manner usually.

One remark regarding subtitles. There are two problems. First, usually where are localized subs there are no original ones, exceptions are few (Witcher 1, with all that huge load of languages/subtitles). Second, one I already voiced - games being translated without seeing game itself. More than that - sometime I got a feeling that localizers don't know thing about product they are trying to localize. Usually this involves historical projects, including those based on table-top games (DnD, Warhammer). Referring .50 cal (12.7mm) as 50mm or .45 ACP as 45mm handgun (I really want to look on THAT gun), messing with vehicle/armament/units names/types, completely twisting the whole meaning of something. Good if there is widespread and helpful community present - they gladly will "lend a hand" and help, but few localizers agree to that. Usually they just ignore us and have that "be happy to served with what you have been given" attitude.

[Xeranx]

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

just great, first they've cheated entire polish community with me2 language version
then they were lazy with all dlc's for me2 and dragon age (im glad that ive downloaded english version after buying me2 in store)
and now this with those dlc/s ;/ i just hope the dlc will be avaiable to buy.
is anyone interested how polish version of the game sounds? awfully, just read text without anything, take money and go away

Why didn't they have Yvonne voice the Polish version of Miranda as well?  If I'm not mistaken, she speaks the language fluently because that's her background.  At the very least they could have offered her the job.

Modifié par Xeranx, 21 janvier 2012 - 05:56 .

[Rudy Lis]

Xeranx wrote...

Why didn't they have Yvonne voice the Polish version of Miranda as well?  If I'm not mistaken, she speaks the language fluently because that's her background.  At the very least they could have offered her the job.

Good idea.
But what we will do with rest of VO actors - where you find someone comparable?

[Relix28]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

I think everyone hates synchronized versions of their favourite games and other media as well for that matter. Basically, any kind of media synhronized into foreign language turns out.....well, horrible. It looses it's authenticity, there are usually lip sync issues, sometimes the voice itself really doesn't fit the character, and I could go on.
Why they insist on localizing media in certain countries is beyond me. I can understand the multi-language subtitles (wich should be enough, and it's a much cheaper process compared to full voice-overs), but the attrocious voice overs are beyond me.
/rant off
Yeah, I tend to get pretty frustrated, when I see fellow gamers are getting screwed by incompetent shot-calling dinosaurs.

Where is applauding smilie when you need one?
Well said.

I think lip-sync is least of all problems - few games have that degree of realism where you can tell that you have been "cheated". Maybe newest, like BF3 - in older games lips moves in fish-like manner usually.

One remark regarding subtitles. There are two problems. First, usually where are localized subs there are no original ones, exceptions are few (Witcher 1, with all that huge load of languages/subtitles). Second, one I already voiced - games being translated without seeing game itself. More than that - sometime I got a feeling that localizers don't know thing about product they are trying to localize. Usually this involves historical projects, including those based on table-top games (DnD, Warhammer). Referring .50 cal (12.7mm) as 50mm or .45 ACP as 45mm handgun (I really want to look on THAT gun), messing with vehicle/armament/units names/types, completely twisting the whole meaning of something. Good if there is widespread and helpful community present - they gladly will "lend a hand" and help, but few localizers agree to that. Usually they just ignore us and have that "be happy to served with what you have been given" attitude.

Why thank you. I try my best.

As far as the (in)correct naming of certain things goes, I think those voice actors are either too lazy to do their homework or not paid enough to care. Either way, that kind of "lore massacring" is pretty bad and rather insulting to both gamers and developers that put a lot of time and effort into creating all that stuff.
And there is also the "lost in translation" issue with localized media. This is basically inevitable, since it's very hard and sometimes impossible to directly translate certain words without them loosing the meaning they have in their original language (things like metaphors for instance). And that is another reason why media in it's original language is vastly superior then it's localized version.

[Ostrowiak]

Primal example of translation-based lore massacre is Polish franchise of the Witcher Geralt, commonly called "Saga" here.

It probably isn't safe to talk about it on Bio forums, but Saga loses so goddamn much in translation, bah, only 2 books of total 7 are translated on English. Westerners have two possibilities:

1) to learn intermediate or advanced Polish, which takes about 15 years
2) to nod every time a Pole says "mate, this is it, because I say so"

But wait a moment sir, somebody would say, enjoying Witcher franchise is clearly impossible if you're not a Pole? No, it is possible, yet shallow as EA Poland's mind.

[Jotamide]

feelsbadman.jpg

[Nerevar-as]

Ostrowiak wrote...

Primal example of translation-based lore massacre is Polish franchise of the Witcher Geralt, commonly called "Saga" here.

It probably isn't safe to talk about it on Bio forums, but Saga loses so goddamn much in translation, bah, only 2 books of total 7 are translated on English. Westerners have two possibilities:

1) to learn intermediate or advanced Polish, which takes about 15 years
2) to nod every time a Pole says "mate, this is it, because I say so"

But wait a moment sir, somebody would say, enjoying Witcher franchise is clearly impossible if you're not a Pole? No, it is possible, yet shallow as EA Poland's mind.

I´m really enjoying it in Spanish. It seems the translator took pains to try and adapt Sapkowski´s prose as fairly as possible. On the bad side, he takes ages to do it, I´ve been waiting almost 3 years for the 2nd Narrenturm book.

Modifié par Nerevar-as, 21 janvier 2012 - 08:44 .

[LisuPL]

Funny, since usually Poland get's screwed over bonuses.
This time it's other way around...
However I don't care about those silly DLC bonus items, so I'll get box Collectors Edition when I get the chance.

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Xeranx wrote...

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

just great, first they've cheated entire polish community with me2 language version
then they were lazy with all dlc's for me2 and dragon age (im glad that ive downloaded english version after buying me2 in store)
and now this with those dlc/s ;/ i just hope the dlc will be avaiable to buy.
is anyone interested how polish version of the game sounds? awfully, just read text without anything, take money and go away

Why didn't they have Yvonne voice the Polish version of Miranda as well?  If I'm not mistaken, she speaks the language fluently because that's her background.  At the very least they could have offered her the job.

Not entirely correct accent, but still it's easy to understand her Damn, too bad I dont live in US (she sounds so nice )

[AkodoRyu]

Hmm. She'd be probably more expensive than any other actor asked for a similar role here. I'm not saying voice actor, because we don't have stricte voice actors here. I'm not sure how she identifies with her Polish roots.
This is just a frickin' coincidence that she's of Polish origin.

Modifié par AkodoRyu, 21 janvier 2012 - 09:42 .

[Rudy Lis]

Relix28 wrote...

As far as the (in)correct naming of certain things goes, I think those voice actors are either too lazy to do their homework or not paid enough to care.

Actors just actors - they read that guddamn texts they've been given. Few of them really dig what they are doing (I've heard good things on New-Vegas VO cast). So it's more of translators/intepreteurs/localizers fault. Especially if "big-boss" don't give a thing.

Relix28 wrote...

Either way, that kind of "lore massacring" is pretty bad and rather insulting to both gamers and developers that put a lot of time and effort into creating all that stuff.

Hell yeah I join Cerbe... Ahem. I mean, shifting my attention to original products.

Relix28 wrote...

And there is also the "lost in translation" issue with localized media. This is basically inevitable, since it's very hard and sometimes impossible to directly translate certain words without them loosing the meaning they have in their original language (things like metaphors for instance). And that is another reason why media in it's original language is vastly superior then it's localized version.

Can't argue with that. Metaphors and idioms practically suffers total overkill during translations. Of course you'll have to sniff your way around to got some of those idioms or metaphors, but if you will be able to do that, pleasure meter will go off-scale, definitely.  
"Please, please me, oh, yeah"
Sorry, old beatlomaniac awaken in me.

Ostrowiak wrote...

Primal example of translation-based lore massacre is Polish franchise of the Witcher Geralt, commonly called "Saga" here.

It probably isn't safe to talk about it on Bio forums, but Saga loses so goddamn much in translation, bah, only 2 books of total 7 are translated on English. Westerners have two possibilities:

1) to learn intermediate or advanced Polish, which takes about 15 years
2) to nod every time a Pole says "mate, this is it, because I say so"

But wait a moment sir, somebody would say, enjoying Witcher franchise is clearly impossible if you're not a Pole? No, it is possible, yet shallow as EA Poland's mind.

Why, I've heard there are good translations on other languages. Mostly in neighborhood, yes, but still, they could learn other languages. OF course, it will not be Sapkowski's Witcher, but better than nothing. Better than DnD "fanfics", erroneously listed as serious literature.
However, comparing Polish subs and English VO (or vice-versa) in Witcher 1 was really hilarious on many occasions. Especially with good old Zoltan.

LisuPL wrote...

Funny, since usually Poland get's screwed over bonuses.
This time it's other way around...

Aha! So THAT's why they hate us so much!

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

Not entirely correct accent, but still it's easy to understand her

I bet you'd vote for her over most local actresses any time.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 22 janvier 2012 - 04:05 .

[Hevilath]

Dear EA/Bioware, 
Do some good on behaf of EA Poland and fix this truoubling situation. Offer Polish gamers N7 Warfare Pack as free/paid DLC for gaming consoles Xbox360 or PS3. Doesn't really matter. Gave us opportunity to give you our hard earned money. Is that too much to ask for? Why should I have to ask for that anyway, it should be obvious. C'mon, don't act as deceptive Illusive Men - we are all gamers after all. 

Polish console gamers doesn't have any chance to get this pack since Orgin is PC centric. Do your best and show your Polish EA branch how they should act to maximazie profits and good publicity. Promoting Orgin is fine, but you leave behind large group of clients.

The other way to resolve situation by Polish players is to act in to two different ways: 
1. Which is illegal, and hidious - Buy this game later in normal version and get pirated version with all goodies. (not so good resolution of tense situation we are in) but message should be clear that we hate to be treated like 3rd class of gamers in Alliance Space. 

2. I'm sorry Bioware Developers for this - wait a few weeks and buy this game used which implies that EA will not recieve any money for your purchase and you will have clear conscience and mischievous smile on your face for doing the only right thing. 

Someone said that in Poland most gamers prefer PC. It's not true. When I was standing in long line for my pre-ordered Battlefield 3 LE I have met and talk to many people. The thing is that all of them were Xbox360 / PS3 gamers. 

I know that my voice will be ignored, but then I still have a hope that someone in Bioware can try to act on our behalf. 

PS: I have my ME3:CE for Xbox360 from 06.03.2012 in Europe  

[99DP1982]

To be honest, I'm currently more worried about the fact, that I may be forced to listen and read a localized version. I've pre-loaded the DDE of ME3, and it didn't ask me for which version I'd like to pre-load.

I just hope that there is still selection available somewhere...

Modifié par 99DP1982, 08 mars 2012 - 07:15 .

[Hevilath]

Xbox 360 version of ME3:CE comes in English with Polish subtitles which you can disable in game options. So no problem here.

[ttchip]

99DP1982 wrote...

To be honest, I'm currently more worried about the fact, that I may be forced to listen and read a localized version. I've pre-loaded the DDE of ME3, and it didn't ask me for which version I'd like to pre-load.

I just hope that there is still selection available somewhere...

You should be able to switch that in the game options.

DDE implies PC, Hevilath. ;->

Modifié par ttchip, 08 mars 2012 - 08:01 .

[illsteward]

Dear Polish players,
just order the game from CZ. You will get your Polish language version plus all DLC's. I got my copy yesterday. I am from Czech Republic, I got it from Czech retailer, who is a sub-brand of global marketing chain, and guess what? I got the Polish version. How often does this happen? Well, about 99% times with BioWare games. I have NWN2 + all datadisks and only the base game isn't Polish. I believe my ME2:CE is also Polish If you want Polish version but all the DLC, just order from us. Sure, there is EA-Czech, but they just don't care. At least they include English language versions as well, so I can play.
About the localizations - it is really hard. As a translator/interpreteur, I know how damn hard is it. Trying to find a guy who is willing to translate isn't that hard. Hard part is to find someone whom you can trust (with language skills diploma or something like that) and who has enough time to learn about the lore, so that he won't screw up. You wonder why the localizations or subtitles are of poor quality? Because the companies hire "professionals". That is, professional translators, people of art who are interested in the job, but only barely in the quality. CZ versions of some ME books were very hard to read. Lore inconsistencies everywhere, but during the last 10 years of crappy translator dominance in the gaming line (our book translators, on the other hand, are superb), we got used to it.

[Hevilath]

illsteward wrote...

Dear Polish players,
just order the game from CZ. You will get your Polish language version plus all DLC's. I got my copy yesterday. I am from Czech Republic, I got it from Czech retailer, who is a sub-brand of global marketing chain, and guess what? I got the Polish version. How often does this happen? Well, about 99% times with BioWare games. I have NWN2 + all datadisks and only the base game isn't Polish. I believe my ME2:CE is also Polish If you want Polish version but all the DLC, just order from us. Sure, there is EA-Czech, but they just don't care. At least they include English language versions as well, so I can play.
About the localizations - it is really hard. As a translator/interpreteur, I know how damn hard is it. Trying to find a guy who is willing to translate isn't that hard. Hard part is to find someone whom you can trust (with language skills diploma or something like that) and who has enough time to learn about the lore, so that he won't screw up. You wonder why the localizations or subtitles are of poor quality? Because the companies hire "professionals". That is, professional translators, people of art who are interested in the job, but only barely in the quality. CZ versions of some ME books were very hard to read. Lore inconsistencies everywhere, but during the last 10 years of crappy translator dominance in the gaming line (our book translators, on the other hand, are superb), we got used to it.

I have tried to place order from Czech in xzone.cz but they probably decided that it's too much trouble for them to make money and didn't reply to my inquiry :/

[illsteward]

Hevilath wrote...

illsteward wrote...

Dear Polish players,
just order the game from CZ. You will get your Polish language version plus all DLC's. I got my copy yesterday. I am from Czech Republic, I got it from Czech retailer, who is a sub-brand of global marketing chain, and guess what? I got the Polish version. How often does this happen? Well, about 99% times with BioWare games. I have NWN2 + all datadisks and only the base game isn't Polish. I believe my ME2:CE is also Polish If you want Polish version but all the DLC, just order from us. Sure, there is EA-Czech, but they just don't care. At least they include English language versions as well, so I can play.
About the localizations - it is really hard. As a translator/interpreteur, I know how damn hard is it. Trying to find a guy who is willing to translate isn't that hard. Hard part is to find someone whom you can trust (with language skills diploma or something like that) and who has enough time to learn about the lore, so that he won't screw up. You wonder why the localizations or subtitles are of poor quality? Because the companies hire "professionals". That is, professional translators, people of art who are interested in the job, but only barely in the quality. CZ versions of some ME books were very hard to read. Lore inconsistencies everywhere, but during the last 10 years of crappy translator dominance in the gaming line (our book translators, on the other hand, are superb), we got used to it.

I have tried to place order from Czech in xzone.cz but they probably decided that it's too much trouble for them to make money and didn't reply to my inquiry :/

Our xzone has a strict only-to-country policy. JRC will be better. There used to be some other good retailers that sold abroad, but I can't get to their webpages, sadly.

[99DP1982]

Indeed it seems that "only" the broadly descirbed menu, credits, names of weapons, etc. are in Polish.

This sucks, but at least I can manage, because the voiceacting is in original English.

That still does not address two issues:

1) Will I get all the future DLCs available same as the (apparently) more civilized regions of the world.

2) Why on earth the local version is forced onto me? Why no choice? This is a _DIGITAL_ version that we are talking here about...

That's borderline discrimination to force one type of a product if you have other types perfectly available.

What if a foreigner stays in Poland because of a business or university for lets say 5 years?

[Hevilath]

[quote]99DP1982 wrote...

1) Will I get all the future DLCs available same as the (apparently) more civilized regions of the world.[/quite]

It's hard to  say. I have English version of ME2 and since some DLCs was available on polish Xbox Marketplace, some in GB region, and some in US region I was forced to switch to three different accounts and using VPN to get them;) Poland is civilized but some corporation think that screwing us is right thing to do - example: Microsoft and Xbox Live  


[quote]
2) Why on earth the local version is forced onto me? Why no choice? This is a _DIGITAL_ version that we are talking here about...

[/quote]

This is the same decision as N7 Warfare Pack - EA know better. 

[Hevilath]

This is just quick update for Polish players. Since EA/Bioware doesn't care about Polish gamers you should know that you can now buy N7 Warfare Pack in Ebay for GBP 4,99 it's about ~30PLN and you get two DLC codes (N7 and Argus) which officially aren't for sale - but who cares? I have bought mine and now with pre-ordered CE edition I can finally play this game in all it's glory. Send me PM if you have any questions.

Best regards.

[swn32]

lol just add the weapons in ur inventory via the save editor