53 réponses à ce sujet

[Heals.like.Jesus]

Granted defensive fire may have its utility, but I do not see how the
others are an improvement. Rapid shot is a very good skill to spend the
early levels with, but the inability to cause criticals really hampers
the usefulness later. Esp, since its not hard to come across a high
critical rate as an archer with gear, and the bard song your party
archer will most likely have.

Furthermore, this game's weapon
speed mechanics are wonky, and since haste and momentium do not stack
and attacks are actually slower than with momentium only, Im pretty
sure that Rapid aim property does not stack, or is bugged when used
with rapid shot. And since alot of bows, including the best one for the
game's archer-specced NPC come with rapid aim,  that means the probably
unstackable rapid shot is not worth the 0% critiial chance.

Aim
is even worse off, since 1) it atacks around the same speed as a
2hander, which is really a bad trade-off  and your overal DPS suffers
even with the added bonuses you get. Furthermore, I remember reading on
the old DA:O forums that Aim sets your attack rate on a certain value
that cannot be modified even with Rapid Aim property.

[GhostMatter]

I guess I only use one. I don't even remember which. Rapid shot I think. Goes to show how much I think they're useful... Maybe in harder difficulties.

[SheffSteel]

If Rapid Aim does not make Aim any more rapid, they really ought to have come up with a better name for it.

[Sloth Of Doom]

All my archers use rapid shot unless I see the having difficulty hitting things.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Eh, sustained abilities are always situation.





Rapid Aim is very useful in the early stages of the game and remains useful vs weak enemies. Very late game it will be more effective as dark spawn would likely die in one shot, so being able to rapidly shoot = good.



Aim is better vs bosses where rate of fire means jack all. Being a sustained ability the increases critical chance applies to all of your other abilities which means that combined with stuff like Shattering Shot or Crippling Shot you'll be much more effective. (Remember, those abilities have a slow RoF anyway so the increased damaga/crit chance is worth it)



The other sustained abilities are significantly better so I won't cover them.

[Heals.like.Jesus]

Sloth: Having Rapid shot on does not affect your chance to score a hit.

Caps-username: Rapid is awesome early on, I said that already - im talking about later stages. Aim is worthless vs bosses, because you take so long to make a shot, that you are likely to get interrupted before you fire. That and the fact that Rapid aim property is wasted if you use Aim and you still are better off using no mode at all, because attack rate will be twice as fast, if with a little less attack on, but you will fire alot more.

Modifié par Heals.like.Jesus, 23 novembre 2009 - 06:15 .

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...
 Aim is worthless vs bosses, because you take so long to make a shot, that you are likely to get interrupted before you fire.

I disagree: and as I mentioned you turn Aim on while using your other abilities (that already take a long time to fire) and benefit your party far more.

Regardless: you're much better off using Aim vs single tough targets because you'll do pitiful damage otherwise, and the rate of fire doesn't benefit you because you'll miss or do crap damage.  

You won't get interrupted if you have a tank

Rapid Aim loses it's usefulness later in the game yes, but  so do many abilities.  Shield Bash becomes inferior to Pummel/Overpower in the mid game and something like Dual Striking is much less effective once your backstabbing is more effective DPS.  It's part of character development really.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...

Sloth: Having Rapid shot on does not affect your chance to score a hit.

Caps-username: Rapid is awesome early on, I said that already - im talking about later stages. Aim is worthless vs bosses, because you take so long to make a shot, that you are likely to get interrupted before you fire. That and the fact that Rapid aim property is wasted if you use Aim and you still are better off using no mode at all, because attack rate will be twice as fast, if with a little less attack on, but you will fire alot more.

Sorry I meant rapid shot, since rapid aim isn't a sustained ability at all and therefore would make no sense in the context of my post.

[Heals.like.Jesus]

Hold that thought - I'll test something

[Heals.like.Jesus]

So then, Aim grants 15 attack, 3 damage 9 Critical and 6 armor penetration on a high level archer with master archer talent.



Granted, these look solid on paper, the archer's attack speed really becomes abysmal. Firing for awhile I find it better to play with no mode on, and since a high level archer would have sufficient attack already, missing on a better attack rate is uncalled for. On the final boss Aim archer does on average around 7-9 more damage per shot, but the attack rates are about 1.2seconds with aimed and 0.7 for rapid shot and/or rapid aim.



That being said, i found no difficulty hitting the final boss with either 93 or 108 attack, but the frequency in damage numbers poppin' up is nice.

[Rythuria]

I ended up using Rapid Shot and Suppressing Fire the majority of the time, but was able to take off Rapid Shot when I found a bow with rapid aim on it since its the same thing and they don't seem to stack.

[Dark83]

Hm. What about Suppressing Fire? That doesn't seem to have any downsides. You still get your normal fire rate, and critical hits, right?

[Heals.like.Jesus]

Well I dont have anything to back this up, but i think Suppress fire doesnt work on bosses and on normal enemies - they will die seconds afterwards, so why bother

[orpheus333]

Mark Of Death + Rapid shot = Dead Combatent.



Defensive Shot = OVER 9000! Defense...or something similar.

[simpatikool]

I use Rapid Shot w/ a short bow and I am fighting trash mobs.



I use AIM and or suppressing fire vs single targets.



I use defensive fire when the situation calls. It does keep you alive!

[Dark83]

Hm. Actually, Rapid Shot with Master Archer and 50 Dex gives you a 300% fire rate. Even without Crits, that seems... pretty darn awesome.

[Orrus_Brosca]

Yeps, Rapid Fire was working out quite well for me, and once I had the extra stam my Ranger's Great Bear was a nice addition.

[Grovermancer]

What is your Critical Chance?  And are you using the Hotfix? 

I'm not using the Hotfix, and Critical seems SO OVER-RATED (cause with vanilla it's SO LOW).  I'm not even bothering with it.  I'm still using Rapid Fire; I'll take the increased rate of guaranteed moderate damage over the (rare) chance of occasional bigger damage.  (and I'm using Morrigan, not Wynn, and didn't give her Haste)

Here's a copy/paste from a more generic archery post I just made: 


[copy]Grovermancer wrote...


I'm doing my 4th play-through, female Dalish Rogue Archer.  Longbow.  NO HOTFIX!
Super-high Dex,
fairly high Cunning (Lethality talent),
Strength to allow for Wade's Drakeskin.  (also just got Stomper (?) boots from DLC lvls)

Right now I'm level 21, plan on breaking 23 again.


Can't quite remember, but my
Armor is around 14
Defense is around 120,
Attack Rating about 110,
Damage around 48

No
normal unit can reach me before they're dead.  No normal unit can actually hit me if they somehow get close (mob).  Arrow of Slaying takes down most non-boss units in one shot.  Shattering Arrow is good mob stunner.

Traps and stealth for fun, but not even needed.

Can I lay out enemies in 1 hit like the 3 previous play-through characters?  No. (except for "Arrow of Slaying," or "Critical Hit" if they're frozen)  HOWEVER, there are many places where I've been able to do stuff that no other class could either!  (in part due to the crappy AI; you can shoot a unit, and ONLY that unit will pursue you, as his allies keep ignoring you LOL!)

But,  there things that still NEED FIXED:
1.  archers don't receive elemental weapon charges from Mages (hell, even the dog gets that!!!)
2.  archer can't coat arrows -- this is absurd -- historically, it WAS the darts/arrows that got coated with poisions!
3.  should be able to craft elemental arrows.  For Maker's sakes, if you can make complex traps, you can make an arrow head w/ elemental damage!  Elemental arrows can't even be bought in most places, so all you get is what you find!
4.  criticals are absurdly low -- I don't even bother with them; leave Rapid Fire on



[/paste]

Modifié par Grovermancer, 24 novembre 2009 - 12:12 .

[Dark83]

The problem with criticals vs no criticals is Stealth.



Stealth gives an auto-crit if you attack from it. Do you still get that with Rapid Shot active, or do you have to disable it?

[Trelow-LMG]

Dark83 wrote...

Hm. What about Suppressing Fire? That doesn't seem to have any downsides. You still get your normal fire rate, and critical hits, right?

I like it. Don't notice any negatives, then again, I don't really try.

[Rythuria]

Dark83 wrote...

The problem with criticals vs no criticals is Stealth.

Stealth gives an auto-crit if you attack from it. Do you still get that with Rapid Shot active, or do you have to disable it?

It'll still give you the crit with rapid shots on from stealth

[WickedAwesome]

Rythuria wrote...

Dark83 wrote...

The problem with criticals vs no criticals is Stealth.

Stealth gives an auto-crit if you attack from it. Do you still get that with Rapid Shot active, or do you have to disable it?

It'll still give you the crit with rapid shots on from stealth

Mmhm, for once the tooltip tells the truth, too: "...the archer fires more rapidly but without any chance of inflicting regular critical hits."

[Dark83]

Oh HO, well, that changes things for me. Now I don'tknow if I'll ever switch Leliana to Surpressing.

[DragoonKain3]

I use suppressing fire, since my archer is support based. Lowering enemy's attack (that stacks!) when you have a dodge tank is the bee's knees, or so to speak.

[Sero03]

you can keep firing while under stealth? that would make a big difference in my decision...