133 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Kain]

For years now bioware is focusing on balance in their games, balance that blantly contradicts lore. Like balancing force users against non-force users in TOR, balancing mages against non-mages in Dragon age, balancing biotics against non-biotics in ME series. If bioware made a "choose your pet" game, they would also balance a dog against a dragon and a parrot against an eagle in their gameplay.

I just wonder how people feel about this. Does it affect your experience of the game, or you simply don't care? What is in your opinion the best way in this situation? Is the current way the best one? How to avoid gameplay/lore conflict, or lore isn't important for you in gameplay? 

Really not a rant, just curious. 

[GreenDragon37]

Well, I'm still not a fan of Thermal Clips...

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 19 janvier 2012 - 02:48 .

[Aimi]

Biotics are drastically overpowered in gameplay compared to lore. I don't have a problem with making them more powerful so they can hang with the rest of the classes.

[Yuoaman]

Gameplay and story segregation to keep things fun an interesting? I'm all for it.

[D.Kain]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Well, I'm still not a fan of Thermal Clips...

Me neither, but what do you do? 

[DrNick1221]

I myself perfer lore and gameplay working togeather in harmony in my games. 

[D.Kain]

daqs wrote...

Biotics are drastically overpowered in gameplay compared to lore. I don't have a problem with making them more powerful so they can hang with the rest of the classes.

Well actually biotics are underpowered AND overpowered at the same time in gameplay as opposed to lore. They are overpowered in their endurance and underpowered in their raw power.

[D.Kain]

DrNick1221 wrote...

I myself perfer lore and gameplay working togeather in harmony in my games. 

So then you would have no problem with one class clearly being better than the other?

[didymos1120]

daqs wrote...

Biotics are drastically overpowered in gameplay compared to lore. I don't have a problem with making them more powerful so they can hang with the rest of the classes.

What's weird is they're both under- AND overpowered.  Under in that they don't work against protections anymore and you can't fling massive things about the way people do in the novels/comics, but over in that you can keep using them endlessly without fatigue ever being an issue.

[someguy1231]

Fun gameplay trumps consistent lore. That's all there is to it, really.

[D.Kain]

someguy1231 wrote...

Fun gameplay trumps consistent lore. That's all there is to it, really.

Well of course. I just wonder how many people think that Lore=gameplay actually would be FUN. 

[crimzontearz]

simple...create lore and game play simultaneously to prevent stupid contradictions

and for the love of god no retcon to try to improve things after the fact



oh and tell the novelists to get it right the first time

[DrNick1221]

D.Kain wrote...

DrNick1221 wrote...

I myself perfer lore and gameplay working togeather in harmony in my games. 

So then you would have no problem with one class clearly being better than the other?

No class is better than another. It is the person who uses it that decides how successfull they will be.  My freind Tears through ME2 as a adept, but blows hard when using an infltrator. I The opposite goes for me.

[D.Kain]

crimzontearz wrote...

simple...create lore and game play simultaneously to prevent stupid contradictions

and for the love of god no retcon to try to improve things after the fact



oh and tell the novelists to get it right the first time

But clearly not everything is equal right? I mean you can't make a world where nobody is stronger. 

[Nobezy]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Well, I'm still not a fan of Thermal Clips...

I'm still a huge fan of putting Frictionless Materials X on my gun and spraying for days.

[D.Kain]

DrNick1221 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

DrNick1221 wrote...

I myself perfer lore and gameplay working togeather in harmony in my games. 

So then you would have no problem with one class clearly being better than the other?

No class is better than another. It is the person who uses it that decides how successfull they will be.  My freind Tears through ME2 as a adept, but blows hard when using an infltrator. I The opposite goes for me.

Yes that is the current path. But currently lore and gameplay don't work in harmony. 
I agree with you that the person determines a lot, but still some classes would have to be stronger by numbers for there to be lore/gameplay harmony.

[MrFob]

D.Kain wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Well, I'm still not a fan of Thermal Clips...

Me neither, but what do you do? 

You can mod.

As far as biotics go, they were even more powerful in gameplay in ME1 than the lore suggested. According to the codex, using biotics is extremely exhausting and it cannot be done more than a couple of times before the individual is basically tired enough to fall unconscious on the spot. Yet in ME1, as a high )or even mid)level adept, you could spam powers all day long. ME2 brought a bit of an improvement to that with the global cooldown (which btw I don't like as a gameplay mechanic but that's another point).
So, yeah, in their Star Wars games, they might have that problem, I am not quite familiar enough to comment on the Dragon Age situation but it is quite funny that you'd put this into the ME3 forum because I think if anything, in the ME universe it's the opposite.

[someguy1231]

D.Kain wrote...

someguy1231 wrote...

Fun gameplay trumps consistent lore. That's all there is to it, really.

Well of course. I just wonder how many people think that Lore=gameplay actually would be FUN. 

In order to do that, the gameplay would have to be developed first, and then the lore written around it. Doing it the other way almost never works out. And at this point, Bioware can't accomplish that without massive retcons. They already tried with the thermal clips, and look at the harsh reaction it got.

[PauseforEffect]

There are moments I wish thermal clips were not so conveniently available in certain places. Picking them up from dead enemies is one thing, but to find a nice little cache placed in a conveniently placed cover is kinda jarring.
Am also curious as to what it would be like if your teammates had limited ammo. Would it be interesting if you were able to give each other thermal clips should one of you run out? Perhaps not, as you'd probably be fighting over the clips.
And it'd be a nice challenge to come up against more enemies that can employ their class powers like Shepard can. Dealing with an enemy Sentinel with exploding tech armor would be more intense than a non-charging Vanguard. Or figuring out how to overcome an enemy's singularity.

[D.Kain]

MrFob wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Well, I'm still not a fan of Thermal Clips...

Me neither, but what do you do? 

You can mod.

As far as biotics go, they were even more powerful in gameplay in ME1 than the lore suggested. According to the codex, using biotics is extremely exhausting and it cannot be done more than a couple of times before the individual is basically tired enough to fall unconscious on the spot. Yet in ME1, as a high )or even mid)level adept, you could spam powers all day long. ME2 brought a bit of an improvement to that with the global cooldown (which btw I don't like as a gameplay mechanic but that's another point).
So, yeah, in their Star Wars games, they might have that problem, I am not quite familiar enough to comment on the Dragon Age situation but it is quite funny that you'd put this into the ME3 forum because I think if anything, in the ME universe it's the opposite.

See I love lore, and for me it doesn't matter if it is Under or Overpowered. I for one would love to play an adept that couldn't use biotics anymore after 5-6 powers a mission, and for those powers to work like they do in lore. I just wonder what other people think.  

[didymos1120]

Nobezy wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Well, I'm still not a fan of Thermal Clips...

I'm still a huge fan of putting Frictionless Materials X on my gun and spraying for days.

Itself an example of gameplay trumping lore.

[D.Kain]

someguy1231 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

someguy1231 wrote...

Fun gameplay trumps consistent lore. That's all there is to it, really.

Well of course. I just wonder how many people think that Lore=gameplay actually would be FUN. 

In order to do that, the gameplay would have to be developed first, and then the lore written around it. Doing it the other way almost never works out. And at this point, Bioware can't accomplish that without massive retcons. They already tried with the thermal clips, and look at the harsh reaction it got.

That seems like an imposible task. How do you develop gameplay without a world? 

[crimzontearz]

D.Kain wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
simple...create lore and game play simultaneously to prevent stupid contradictions
and for the love of god no retcon to try to improve things after the fact

oh and tell the novelists to get it right the first time

But clearly not everything is equal right? I mean you can't make a world where nobody is stronger. 

nope....the world is not fair....yes Biotics should own soldiers just like in a straight up fight a werewolf should just mow through a regular human being in the NWoD game...and lo and behold....it usually happens just that way

[Aimi]

D.Kain wrote...

See I love lore, and for me it doesn't matter if it is Under or Overpowered. I for one would love to play an adept that couldn't use biotics anymore after 5-6 powers a mission, and for those powers to work like they do in lore. I just wonder what other people think.  

Five or six might be on the high end. Anyway, I'd think you're loony, and any such thing would immediately cause BSN to explode in rage were it ever implemented (as if the Adept wasn't "weak" - pft - enough in ME2).

[D.Kain]

daqs wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

See I love lore, and for me it doesn't matter if it is Under or Overpowered. I for one would love to play an adept that couldn't use biotics anymore after 5-6 powers a mission, and for those powers to work like they do in lore. I just wonder what other people think.  

Five or six might be on the high end. Anyway, I'd think you're loony, and any such thing would immediately cause BSN to explode in rage were it ever implemented (as if the Adept wasn't "weak" - pft - enough in ME2).

Well. The lore Adept with Shepard potential could actually toss/crush an atlas mech ignoring all layers of armor/shields. So wouldn't be too weak. Just very limited.