133 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

ParagonForLife wrote...

 because the projectile generates heat  and because a Mass Accelerator works by Electormagnetics so all it has
to do is change the charge of the projectile and the whole procces is assisted by element zero to lower the objects mass so the heat if any whould be too low for the gun to overheat

The entire process generates heat, from the shaving of the ammo block to make the projectile to the magnetic acceleration of the round, and that includes the generation of the ME field allowing the round to be accelerated to such high speeds. But the projectile itself? No, it doesn't generate heat. Not unless it's radioactive (which is certainly a possibility, but not the norm). 

Modifié par didymos1120, 19 janvier 2012 - 07:21 .

[Random citizen]

AlanC9 wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

 1)classical games (tabletop, pen and paper rpgs with "balanced" classes because people are not expected or trusted to actually roleplay with other limitations then those given to them),

That isn't exactly right. PnP games turned out to need balanced classes because it's hard to get players to voluntarily play a weak class. Nobody wants to be overshadowed.

Weak class? weak at what? overshadowed at what?

Depends on the system, and to a lesser extent on the campaign. In D&D, or ME, it's combat.

Indeed. And therin lies the problem, that these type of games are overly combat-centric (in ME its constantly about three fighting foes comming at you in a confined physical space) and not made for a wider experience.

[Aimi]

/historian steps back and lets the people who know how fizziqs works speak with authority

[Lotion Soronarr]

I don't care about inter-class balance in singleplayer games. You're not competing with anyone. In that case, Lore all the way. With all the appropriate consequences.
For a DAO example - mages are powerhouses - but using them or being one has CONSEQUENCES. With a big C.

For multiplayer? I ..don't think ti would work, altough it would be hulluva fun. Maybe as some kind to team play with a limit on number of class X on each side?

[Random citizen]

Last Vizard wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

 1)classical games (tabletop, pen and paper rpgs with "balanced" classes because people are not expected or trusted to actually roleplay with other limitations then those given to them),

That isn't exactly right. PnP games turned out to need balanced classes because it's hard to get players to voluntarily play a weak class. Nobody wants to be overshadowed.

Weak class? weak at what? overshadowed at what?

If you read good fantasy novels like the ones Raymond E. Feist writes then you'd know that mages are living gods.  Pug, Macros the black, Tomas, miranda and any other powerful mage can destroy entire nations.... as to Biotics in lore, yes they can only use their powers so many times before they passout or die however when they do use those abilities... everyone enemy is dead because protections stoping biotics are a gameplay mechanic too.

I have not read those books, but hypothetically a "mage" (or whatever) is traditionally at battle with itself and the power it wields. That is how the "class" is "balanced" primarily.  When other eventual hostile "magic users" are eliminated, their own power tend to be their primary and continuing battle.

[Random citizen]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

 1)classical games (tabletop, pen and paper rpgs with "balanced" classes because people are not expected or trusted to actually roleplay with other limitations then those given to them),

That isn't exactly right. PnP games turned out to need balanced classes because it's hard to get players to voluntarily play a weak class. Nobody wants to be overshadowed.

Weak class? weak at what? overshadowed at what?

If you read good fantasy novels like the ones Raymond E. Feist writes then you'd know that mages are living gods.  Pug, Macros the black, Tomas, miranda and any other powerful mage can destroy entire nations.... as to Biotics in lore, yes they can only use their powers so many times before they passout or die however when they do use those abilities... everyone enemy is dead because protections stoping biotics are a gameplay mechanic too.

Err - mages being 'living gods' in one particular series of novels doesn't mean that they are in all series.  Take Dragon Age mages for example - in both lore and gameplay, a well trained templar can easily take down a powerful mage.

Baldur's Gate draws a different line - a mage that knows what enemies are coming, can memorise the right spells, then take 40 seconds to cast a bunch of prepatory spells will be exceptionally hard to take down - while an unprepared mage could easily be killed in a single blow by a strong melee character.

Templars are actually "mages". but only trained in counter- or dispel-magic-spells and armed combat

Modifié par Random citizen, 19 janvier 2012 - 07:34 .

[Worried Mitch]

In reality obviously a weapon with an indefinite amount of ammo would be extremely useful, but this is a game and if the developers need to devise some convoluted explanation for the new gameplay mechanic in order to improve gameplay, than there's really no problem with that. Certainly as a dear fan of ME and the universe with all of its detail and history the thermal clips are difficult to accept, but from a gamer perspective, I much prefer the thermal clip system to the spamming of assault rifles in ME1. I just think it is tricky business with games, especially such as ME with such a rich universe, to balance gameplay with respect to the lore.

[Last Vizard]

Fozee wrote...

The guns are little mass relays that project a tiny race of sentient beings' spaceships at high speeds into our enemies' heads.

It's a sad situation really.

... anyone know what the Mod is talking about?

[Last Vizard]

Random citizen wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

 1)classical games (tabletop, pen and paper rpgs with "balanced" classes because people are not expected or trusted to actually roleplay with other limitations then those given to them),

That isn't exactly right. PnP games turned out to need balanced classes because it's hard to get players to voluntarily play a weak class. Nobody wants to be overshadowed.

Weak class? weak at what? overshadowed at what?

If you read good fantasy novels like the ones Raymond E. Feist writes then you'd know that mages are living gods.  Pug, Macros the black, Tomas, miranda and any other powerful mage can destroy entire nations.... as to Biotics in lore, yes they can only use their powers so many times before they passout or die however when they do use those abilities... everyone enemy is dead because protections stoping biotics are a gameplay mechanic too.

I have not read those books, but hypothetically a "mage" (or whatever) is traditionally at battle with itself and the power it wields. That is how the "class" is "balanced" primarily.  When other eventual hostile "magic users" are eliminated, their own power tend to be their primary and continuing battle.

Not in this series, without giving too much away I'll just say that a better than average mage can lift himself and a large number of other mages up and fly across a battle field while they other mages rain down death apon enemy armies (A great mage can do all things and even challenge gods - sound familier DA players?)... pretty epic novels.

I had a friend that had similar views about how a great warrior could defeat any mage... after many hours of debate and drinking he realised that he was looking at things through D & D rules,  no other class can match the potential of power that mages have...  even a weak mage can find ways to extend his own life, something noone esle can do.

Either way, If one individual can effect reality at will and another individual is normal in every way however he can swing a sword... well I know who I'm betting on

[Last Vizard]

Random citizen wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

 1)classical games (tabletop, pen and paper rpgs with "balanced" classes because people are not expected or trusted to actually roleplay with other limitations then those given to them),

That isn't exactly right. PnP games turned out to need balanced classes because it's hard to get players to voluntarily play a weak class. Nobody wants to be overshadowed.

Weak class? weak at what? overshadowed at what?

If you read good fantasy novels like the ones Raymond E. Feist writes then you'd know that mages are living gods.  Pug, Macros the black, Tomas, miranda and any other powerful mage can destroy entire nations.... as to Biotics in lore, yes they can only use their powers so many times before they passout or die however when they do use those abilities... everyone enemy is dead because protections stoping biotics are a gameplay mechanic too.

Err - mages being 'living gods' in one particular series of novels doesn't mean that they are in all series.  Take Dragon Age mages for example - in both lore and gameplay, a well trained templar can easily take down a powerful mage.

Baldur's Gate draws a different line - a mage that knows what enemies are coming, can memorise the right spells, then take 40 seconds to cast a bunch of prepatory spells will be exceptionally hard to take down - while an unprepared mage could easily be killed in a single blow by a strong melee character.

Templars are actually "mages". but only trained in counter- or dispel-magic-spells and armed combat

Yeah Artificial Mages because they need lyrium, or thats how I see it.

[CroGamer002]

didymos1120 wrote...

daqs wrote...

Biotics are drastically overpowered in gameplay compared to lore. I don't have a problem with making them more powerful so they can hang with the rest of the classes.

What's weird is they're both under- AND overpowered.  Under in that they don't work against protections anymore and you can't fling massive things about the way people do in the novels/comics, but over in that you can keep using them endlessly without fatigue ever being an issue.

This.

[Sebbe1337o]

If I had created the class-system in ME, I would've done things different.

[Nanuzsh]

By lore ALL shepards are biotics with great biotic potential. Some train(Adept,Vanguard,Sentinal) their biotics some don't.(Soldier, Engineer, Infaltrator)


Shepard can still learn them from other squadmates by Advance training as he does have the potential.

By lore he is an N7 blackops operative who was exposed to eezo and has biotic potential.

N7 training gives him tech and combat skills.
Eezo exposiour gives him biotic potential.

[D.Kain]

Last Vizard wrote...

Not in this series, without giving too much away I'll just say that a better than average mage can lift himself and a large number of other mages up and fly across a battle field while they other mages rain down death apon enemy armies (A great mage can do all things and even challenge gods - sound familier DA players?)... pretty epic novels.

I had a friend that had similar views about how a great warrior could defeat any mage... after many hours of debate and drinking he realised that he was looking at things through D & D rules,  no other class can match the potential of power that mages have...  even a weak mage can find ways to extend his own life, something noone esle can do.

Either way, If one individual can effect reality at will and another individual is normal in every way however he can swing a sword... well I know who I'm betting on

Well mages are defeated by templars because templars destroy their mana pool with a holy smite, rendering their magical powers useless. This is where blood magic kicks in and makes mages ''immune'' to being useless, and makes them able to continue to cast spells. This is why blood magic is forbidden and hated by the templars, it makes them not able to disable mages. 

So Blood mage>Tempar>Mage

Modifié par D.Kain, 19 janvier 2012 - 10:01 .

[didymos1120]

Nanuzsh wrote...

By lore ALL shepards are biotics with great biotic potential. Some train(Adept,Vanguard,Sentinal) their biotics some don't.(Soldier, Engineer, Infaltrator)

Speculation.  The games don't address Shep's eezo exposure at all.  For other sources, we have Chris L'Etoile posting on the wiki that they have a timeline that includes dates of exposure, but he didn't specify if that only applied to biotic class Shepards. Given that Shep already has a multiple choice past by design, I suspect it does.

Modifié par didymos1120, 19 janvier 2012 - 10:02 .

[D.Kain]

Nanuzsh wrote...

By lore ALL shepards are biotics with great biotic potential. Some train(Adept,Vanguard,Sentinal) their biotics some don't.(Soldier, Engineer, Infaltrator)


Shepard can still learn them from other squadmates by Advance training as he does have the potential.

By lore he is an N7 blackops operative who was exposed to eezo and has biotic potential.

N7 training gives him tech and combat skills.
Eezo exposiour gives him biotic potential.

If Shepard wouldn't learn biotics, he wouldn't have an implant. No implant = useless biotics. So advanced training is bull. 

[didymos1120]

^And that too.

[Brownfinger]

D.Kain wrote...

I just wonder how people feel about this. Does it affect your experience of the game, or you simply don't care?

No. I don't role play. Well, not in a way that would be appropriate to mention on these forums. (I keed! I keed!)

It's a video game, and that won't kill my immersion, which hinges on the story.
I think there are several kinds of nerds, and there are important distinctions to make. There are those that obsess over every detail, who will mention to an actor or writer that some microscopic nuance in one episode contradicted something minor in another, and then there are people like me who will groan and roll their eyes at that person.

Modifié par Brownfinger, 19 janvier 2012 - 10:09 .

[CroGamer002]

didymos1120 wrote...

Nanuzsh wrote...

By lore ALL shepards are biotics with great biotic potential. Some train(Adept,Vanguard,Sentinal) their biotics some don't.(Soldier, Engineer, Infaltrator)

Speculation.  The games don't address Shep's eezo exposure at all.  For other sources, we have Chris L'Etoile posting on the wiki that they have a timeline that includes dates of exposure, but he didn't specify if that only applied to biotic class Shepards. Given that Shep already has a multiple choice past by design, I suspect it does.

Plus, wasn't Kaidan exposed by eezo do to his mother being pregnant at the time of that Singapore exposure.


Kaidan is also older then Shepard and he received L2 implants, while Shepard L3.

So can't be same exposure.

[tonnactus]

MrFob wrote...
According to the codex, using biotics is extremely exhausting and it cannot be done more than a couple of times before the individual is basically tired enough to fall unconscious on the spot.

That is only true for "ordinary" biotics. Not for ones like gillian or shepardt.

[Reptillius]

D.Kain wrote...

Nanuzsh wrote...

By lore ALL shepards are biotics with great biotic potential. Some train(Adept,Vanguard,Sentinal) their biotics some don't.(Soldier, Engineer, Infaltrator)


Shepard can still learn them from other squadmates by Advance training as he does have the potential.

By lore he is an N7 blackops operative who was exposed to eezo and has biotic potential.

N7 training gives him tech and combat skills.
Eezo exposiour gives him biotic potential.

If Shepard wouldn't learn biotics, he wouldn't have an implant. No implant = useless biotics. So advanced training is bull. 

Actually. this is somewhat incorrect.  The Implants are there to help a Biotic use their powers. Not facilitate all ability to use them.  Most Biotics do not have the mental focus and determination for their biotics to be affective on their own.  it is only through the Amps to make it easier on the Biotics to create and move the fields that most achieve this affect for more than say moving a pencil when combined with a large ammount of reflexing training to get the desired affect out of their abilities.

On top of that... some of the biotics that actually join us at one point or another in this effort against the Reapers aren't your average Biotics with or without the implants.  Shepard, Kaiden and Jack all being Exceptional in their abilities as far as human Biotics are concerned.  Potentially to the point of being able to be some of the few that can actually control at least one learned affect even without Amps... but not necessarily a full arsenal of those abilities.

[D.Kain]

Reptillius wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Nanuzsh wrote...

By lore ALL shepards are biotics with great biotic potential. Some train(Adept,Vanguard,Sentinal) their biotics some don't.(Soldier, Engineer, Infaltrator)


Shepard can still learn them from other squadmates by Advance training as he does have the potential.

By lore he is an N7 blackops operative who was exposed to eezo and has biotic potential.

N7 training gives him tech and combat skills.
Eezo exposiour gives him biotic potential.

If Shepard wouldn't learn biotics, he wouldn't have an implant. No implant = useless biotics. So advanced training is bull. 

Actually. this is somewhat incorrect.  The Implants are there to help a Biotic use their powers. Not facilitate all ability to use them.  Most Biotics do not have the mental focus and determination for their biotics to be affective on their own.  it is only through the Amps to make it easier on the Biotics to create and move the fields that most achieve this affect for more than say moving a pencil when combined with a large ammount of reflexing training to get the desired affect out of their abilities.

On top of that... some of the biotics that actually join us at one point or another in this effort against the Reapers aren't your average Biotics with or without the implants.  Shepard, Kaiden and Jack all being Exceptional in their abilities as far as human Biotics are concerned.  Potentially to the point of being able to be some of the few that can actually control at least one learned affect even without Amps... but not necessarily a full arsenal of those abilities.

No I never said that they couldn't use biotics. I said useless. Without an implant you can throw a chair, with an implant you can throw a car. There is just big difference. 

[D.Kain]

tonnactus wrote...

MrFob wrote...
According to the codex, using biotics is extremely exhausting and it cannot be done more than a couple of times before the individual is basically tired enough to fall unconscious on the spot.

That is only true for "ordinary" biotics. Not for ones like gillian or shepardt.

Nope, true for all biotics. Gillian and Shepard would get tired too, it's like saying that a pro weight lifter never get's tired in the gym.