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Advice on party members


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#1
khronus Arkanus

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Hey everyone

I have played BG1 a few times, though never actually completed it. I have installed BGT and plan to run it from beggining to end (finally hehehehehe)

After looking into continuity of some NPCs into BG2, I spent  a long while looking at various forums to learn more about the characters in BG2, and decided to make this party:

Me - Paladin (Inquisitor os cavalier, would really appreciate opinions on which kit would be best!)
Minsc
Jahera  (melee and druid spells)
Imoen (Yoshimo until I get her back)
Viconia  (awesome cleric)
Edwin   (awesome mage)

My two main concerns are:
Me as a paladin and Viconia: will she leave the group because I'm a paladin? I will have high charisma (18) and will keep reputation at 18.
Minsc and Edwin: will they fight because of Dynaheir in BG1? I don't mind them arguing once in a while but I really don't want one of them dead lol.

Thanks for any advice :)

Modifié par khronus Arkanus, 19 janvier 2012 - 04:35 .


#2
ussnorway

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khronus Arkanus wrote...

My two main concerns are:
Me as a paladin and Viconia: will she leave the group because I'm a paladin? I will have high charisma (18) and will keep reputation at 18.


No she won't leave because of that but if she does leave for other reasons i.e. you end the romance or perhaps she gets turned into stone then she will walk away for good... if you romance her all the way to ToB then she can be alignment changed. :wub:

Minsc and Edwin: will they fight because of Dynaheir in BG1? I don't mind them arguing once in a while but I really don't want one of them dead lol.

Yes Minsc is unstable and WILL kill Edwin out of combat & possibly others during the combat. :crying:

Modifié par ussnorway, 19 janvier 2012 - 06:17 .


#3
Humanoid_Taifun

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khronus Arkanus wrote...
Minsc and Edwin: will they fight because of Dynaheir in BG1? I don't mind them arguing once in a while but I really don't want one of them dead lol.

You can avoid them killing each other by reloading (no joke, it's a random event).

#4
khronus Arkanus

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Thx, I'll give this party a try now hehehehe :D

#5
morbidest2

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khronus Arkanus wrote...

My two main concerns are:
Me as a paladin and Viconia: will she leave the group because I'm a paladin? I will have high charisma (18) and will keep reputation at 18.
Minsc and Edwin: will they fight because of Dynaheir in BG1? I don't mind them arguing once in a while but I really don't want one of them dead lol.

Thanks for any advice :)


Considering that you are starting in BG1 AND will be a paladin, exactly how do you plan to keep your rep less than 19. Robbing widows and orphans off in the countryside will do the job, as will be careless about using Fireballs in a town and killing civilians, but does that fit with paladin role playing? Incidently, I would try to keep Rep below 18, so that you have a little margin against an unexpected boost to Rep causing Viconia and Edwin to suddenly walk out on you. Once you can turn into the Slayer the problem disappears, but it can be a nuisance before then. Your toleration of big time evil in your party argues for being an Inquisitor, on the principle that "it takes a thief to catch a thief", so you keep some close at hand.
 Image IPB 

#6
khronus Arkanus

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Thx for the reply morbidest2. What do you mean by turning into the slayer? I haven't seen that term before (sorry if it's a noobish question hehehehe).

Yeah the plan was to reduce reputation by letting Imoen do her thieving once in a while here and there and get caught (but not fight). And perhaps minsc could be excused for slaying a few civilians in the contryside due to his unstable personality (those would be my role playing excuses hehehehe)

#7
Humanoid_Taifun

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khronus Arkanus wrote...

Thx for the reply morbidest2. What do you mean by turning into the slayer? I haven't seen that term before (sorry if it's a noobish question hehehehe).

That's a spoiler.
(highlight text to read)
At some point during the (first) game, you learn to control the power of your father, the dead god Bhaal. That first manifests in the minor abilities (like Draw Upon Holy Might), but when your soul is stolen, you can also turn into the Slayer, a big evil monster.

Edit: colouring doesn't work?!?!

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 19 janvier 2012 - 06:20 .


#8
khronus Arkanus

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hummm trying to highlight the text but can't see anything. I do want to be spoiled, so plz do :)

#9
Humanoid_Taifun

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If you can't see it, press "Quote". That should help.

#10
khronus Arkanus

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Oh sweet. So if I act while I am in slayer mode It doesn't affect my paladin status.

One question though, before I get the slayer thing, if I have a party member do the deed for me (as in my post above) that won't make me fall as a paladin, right?

Modifié par khronus Arkanus, 19 janvier 2012 - 07:31 .


#11
Humanoid_Taifun

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khronus Arkanus wrote...

Oh sweet. So if I act while I am in slayer mode It doesn't affect my paladin status.

Willfully turning into a raging monster of carnage and destruction does not make you any less responsible for your actions. If you use that form to kill a number of innocents then people (including your God) will want answers.
The point is something else. If you choose to turn into the slayer, you are giving in to evil (not a very paladin-like thing to do, but whatever), and for that action you already and automatically lose 1 point reputation. This is very useful, since it allows you to give your reputation a slight nudge downwards, rather than falling into "Wanted: Dead or Alive" territory immediately.
Keep also in mind that staying in that form for too long will kill you.

One question though, before I get the slayer thing, if I have a party member do the deed for me (as in my post above) that won't make me fall as a paladin, right?

Yes it will. If it's a party member, it's your responsibility. The only way to kill a person without cheating and without being held responsible for it is to create a common enemy (the easy way for this would be the level 9 spell Gate, but there are other ways, which were used extensively in the BG1 - 0 XP challenge).

Well, you will fall if your reputation drops too low*, not for killing innocents (though these 2 things usually go hand-in-hand). There is a way to restore yourself (paladin quests), but if you've done them already, you're out of luck.

*or for failing the tests in hell (warning you now, before you realize 4 hours later)

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 19 janvier 2012 - 07:56 .


#12
khronus Arkanus

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hummm i see, the easy way is too quickly enter slayer mode to reduce reputation slightly. How often can I enter and leave into this mode?
A more pressing question, particularly for BG1 where I won't have access to the spell Gate, what is the best way to lower reputaion without falling? (if there is such a way? Plz feel free to spoil)
Also, does losing even 1 reputaion make a paladin fall? If not what is the lowest he can decresed it to without falling? I think the manual said 6, and I wasnt planning to fall that low lol.

Modifié par khronus Arkanus, 19 janvier 2012 - 08:13 .


#13
silenceall

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I don't know about BG1, but in BG2 the truly easy way is to just use the "happy party" patch (I think that's what it's called) in the G3 Tweakpack. Then you don't have to worry about your reputation going to high for the evil party members (or party in-fighting) if you don't want to.

#14
khronus Arkanus

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Anyone else has some good advice on the reputation issue here? hehehehe I could really use the help

#15
ussnorway

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Losing reputation points as a result of quests is normally safe eg. flooded the mines without helping the slaves first is -2 but IMO killing people* is the best way.

* Tip; only kill Neutral people (as in not evil or good) because good people will make you fall & nobody gives a fig if your pally kills someone evil... the 'Know Alignment' spell can help you decide.

#16
khronus Arkanus

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these are great tips, thx!

#17
polytope

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Some neutral or even evil characters are coded as "innocent" meaning you take up to a 10 point reputation hit from killing them; the merchants in Trademeet come to mind, as do Noblemen in Athkatla.

I know the harpers encountered through Xzar's quest are not considered "innocent" but you do lose 2 reputation for each one if you attack them.

#18
morbidest2

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Perhaps the basic question to ask is if the Happy Party Mod is compatible with BGT. If so, you don't have to sweat the issue.
Another point is that muscle is more important than magic in BG1, so the Edwin/Viconia combo is less important to you in BG1 than it will be in BG2. There are enough clerics hanging around Baldurs Gate, so that Vicky can be easily replaced. And you could go back to wherever you parked Dynaheir.
Another spoiler - but this is the Spoiler Forum - is that you will bump into Vicky and Edwin again fairly early in SoA, so if your Rep is low enough at that point, you should get another shot at adding them to your party even if they walked in BG1.
Also keep in mind that if you decide to kill an innocent to retain Viconia's charms and Edwin's lovely personality, wait until your Rep is 18. If it is a few points lower, the Flaming Fist (or their equivalent in BG2) will start being a real pain in the ass and drive you to drop around 1,000 gp in the nearest Temple to get it up a few points. And remember that Rep=8 means stores charge you significantly higher prices than with Rep=18. Stock up on potions ahead of time; being Evil costs $ in Toril! If you do murder someone, try to do it in an isolated area. If other civilians are around they will "turn red" and the more excitable members of your party will start trying to kill them too - so turn AI off and get the hades out of the area and don't come back there with AI on.

#19
khronus Arkanus

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Thx for the suggestions morbidest.
I gave up the idea of having Viconia in my group when I reach BG2 because I found out in the forums that I wil only be able to kep one romance (I thought other male NPCs in my group could romance too). So I'm gonna favour the romance with Jahera, and since I won't be able to change Viconia's alignment without romancing her, I'll take Anomen as my cleric in BG2 - therefore since there won't be continuity if I take Viconia in BG1 one, I won;t take her, and will take Branwen instead.

Edwin is another case, I really think he's a great mage, and I'm still planning to use him throughout BG1 and BG2, so he's the evil one to watch my reputation. I will keep it at 18, and if I know I'm gonna get a rep bonus from a quest, I'll go to the wild and kill an innocent or try some light stealing with Imoen.

Another change in my original party plan is not to take Minsc :( lol I was going to end up having to replace him by Saverok in ToB, so I think the hasltle of having to go from practically day 1 with him and Edwin arguing all the time and perhaps even fighting each other, I'll take Kivan in BG1 and in BG2 Mazzy (both for archery) until I eventually meet Saverok.

So my party will still have some continuity (Jahera, Imoen, Edwin), but will also make room for some new faces and the quests they will bring with them (Anomen, Mazzy, Saverok) :)

BG1 party
Me - Cavalier (Main tank)
Jahera (Melee, buffer/offensive caster, healer when needed)
Kivan (Archer, ocasional melee when needed)
Branwen (Main healer, ranged with slings)
Imoen (Archer and, when dualed, spellcaster)
Edwin (Spellcasting mayhem)

BG2 Party
Me - Cavalier (Main tank)
Jahera (Melee, buffer/offensive caster, healer when needed)
Mazzy (Mainly archer, and melee when needed) until I get Sarevok (2nd main melee)
Anomen (Main healer, ranged with slings, possibly melee too until I get Sarevok)
Imoen (Archer and, when dualed, spellcaster)
Edwin (Spellcasting mayhem)

#20
Humanoid_Taifun

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What are you going to do with Khalid?

#21
ussnorway

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khronus Arkanus wrote...
I gave up the idea of having Viconia in my group when I reach BG2 because I found out in the forums that I wil only be able to kep one romance (I thought other male NPCs in my group could romance too).


Amber
is the only NPC that I know of which will romance a #2 multi-character (not a npc but a extra pc). :wub:

#22
morbidest2

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There's also the possible "triangle" involving a male PC, Aerie and HaerDalis, if the latter two are both in your party long enough for the situation to mature.

#23
morbidest2

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Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

What are you going to do with Khalid?


Kill him early - set him in the forefront of battle and forget to revive him before another joinable PC comes along to replace him. Probably doing Jaheira a favor  Image IPB 

#24
khronus Arkanus

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Indeed, this is what Sanctus Bellator, my Cavalier, had to say about this:

"The journey from Candlekeep was rather uneventful, were it not for the terrible events that led to my foster father's demise. I found myself completely alone in the wilderness, lost. Candlekeep, with its regimented fortified walls had been my home for the past 20 years, and Gorion never allowed me to explore the outside. Without his influence, Candlekeep's gates are now closed to me. The only place I could hope to get any answers, the Friendly Arm Inn, was far away, so I decided that in order to be safe on my journey there I had to look for companions to travel with me, while avoiding any danger the best way I could.
A sudden surge of courage rekindled inside me, and as I took my first steps into the unknown I heard a distant voice calling me. It brought me great comfort when I recognised Imoen's voice as she caught up with me, for I Knew then I was not alone! She joined me and we quickly scouted the area south of Lion's Way, looking for more companions to join us. We came across Kivan, a ranger who was hunting bandits, and he was very keen to join us. I sensed he was trustworthy, and his cause was indeed righteous. 
We made our way back to Lion's way and then east, where we met a couple of travellers who wanted us to go with them to Nashkel. Though they seemed friendly enough, and even offered us a potion of healing, I decided to not let them travel with us, for something about them did not seem right. I detected an evil presence all around them, and decided it was not worth risking it at this stage.
Reaching the Coast Way, we moved carefully northwards using stealth, avoiding any dangerous encounter on our way, until we finally reached the Friendly Arm Inn!!!
After a brief encounter with yet another bounty hunter right on the steps leading inside the Inn, we finally met Gorion's friends, Jahera and Khalid. They spoke to me at length, and said it was Gorion's wish they should accompany me if something foul befell him, but they said I was a grown man now, and the decision should be mine. I wasn't really given much time to think about things, and at that moment any extra valuable companion seemed a great blessing to have around.
Jahera strikes me as an independent, very opinionated woman, and a fierce warrior too. Khalid, on the other hand, didn't strike me as a very confident and tough warrior at all. I will bring him along, though rather reluctantly, for I sense when he finds himself in the heat of a battle, his courage and stamina might not stand to the test, and he could end up falling in battle.
After they joined us, we all bought some equipment at the Inn and decided to have a look around and met some folks. We met a lady, Joia, in one of the houses dotted around the Inn, who asked us to fetch a ring for her from some hobgoblin thieves just north of the inn.
Humanoid thieves! How could I deny her such request! To battle we shall go with these hobgblings, and Khalid shall be put to the test..."

How was that for roleplaying? lol :)

Modifié par khronus Arkanus, 20 janvier 2012 - 04:58 .


#25
AlexDeLarge

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You can safely keep Minsc and Edwin in party in BG1 (not BG2). All you have to do is get Dynaheir killed and then dump her from the party.

Don't install the happy patch. Reputation is highly overrated, if you really want to be able to afford anything, just go on a shoplifting spree with potions of master thievery. But the happy patch ruins inter-party banters afaik. To lose reputation points in BG1, all you have to do is install the Bardic Reputation Adjustment mod from BG Tweaks. It basically plants a few bards in several Inn's which give you the option to lower your rep in exchange for a fee.