596 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Il Divo wrote...

ME2's issue is that the mission parameters don't really require any of these specialists. A typical heist film, which is the model ME2 follows, typically begins by laying out the plan + necessary roles for the heist. This is done so that the audience is aware of what each member's role is.

The problem with ME2 isn't that recruitment is a bad idea; it's always a good plan to be prepared for the unexpected, which is covered through the diverse group of specialists. The problem is that you can take any narrative and turn it into a recruitment gig. Take ME1. Shepard could have said to Anderson "Hey, I need a really good team", and instead of a plot-focused storyline, we would have had the ME2-esque recruitment +  a few short story-oriented missions. The recruitment missions themselves were great, but they came at the expense of a focused narrative.

This.

They should focus more on the narritve this time, because it's the last game in the trilogy and I don't think any character should get ahead of that fact.

[Chun Hei]

What the hell do you need all the "specialists" for in ME2 anyway? You are going to destroy the Collector's "homeworld" (Cerberus originally thought it would be a planet) and you have twelve weirdos and machine guns to potential commit (necessary) genocide? Nobody brought nukes. You cannot blow open the doors on the base because you do not even have any real explosives. Why not armor plate the ship with the same material the storage boxes are made of? The probes cut through Normandy's armor like butter but the boxes are immaculate.

[Il Divo]

Someone With Mass wrote...

They should focus more on the narritve this time, because it's the last game in the trilogy and I don't think any character should get ahead of that fact.

Agreed. ME2 got away with it by providing material for potential exposition + plot development in ME3. Now Bioware just has to make sure they use it. And based on everything I'm hearing so far, we will have that focus which ME2 was so lacking.

Modifié par Il Divo, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:56 .

[Il Divo]

D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

MrFob wrote...

The ME1 or ME2 assignments have nothing to do with this since we are talking about squad mates. The assignments are independent of squadmate recruitment or missions.

ME2's issue is that the mission parameters don't really require any of these specialists. A typical heist film, which is the model ME2 follows, typically begins by laying out the plan + necessary roles for the heist. This is done so that the audience is aware of what each member's role is.

The problem with ME2 isn't that recruitment is a bad idea; it's always a good plan to be prepared for the unexpected, which is covered through the diverse group of specialists. The problem is that you can take any narrative and turn it into a recruitment gig. Take ME1. Shepard could have said to Anderson "Hey, I need a really good team", and instead of a plot-focused storyline, we would have had the ME2-esque recruitment +  a few short story-oriented missions. The recruitment missions themselves were great, but they came at the expense of a focused narrative.

One of the most intelligent comments ive see on these forums

Very much appreciated.

[brfritos]

Chun Hei wrote...

Trickybam wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

Trickybam wrote...

Bioware have said they wanted a smaller number of squad mates so they can concentrate on the characters and go more indepth.

also, and im not 100 % on this but ti think if Tali or Garrus died in ME2 they will be replaced by a diffirent character in ME3, so you would still have the same size squad

Nope,  if they're dead then you just have a smaller squad. 4 to 5 as opposed to 6 or 7.

hmm, well that does suck a bit

Consequences. See? Your choices do matter.

Now people will complain about the game having choices. :innocent:

[Alex06]

Bobrzy wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

What does Garrus being on the squad have to do with him being bisexual?

There was a lot of speculations about what characters will be Bi. If the squad was bigger, there was an option that only some of them will be available for SS romances, but if this small squad roster is true, then there isn't too many options to select them, they will just make all of them bisexual. After DA2 i thought that won't be a surprise.

Pretty sure I read somewhere that Vega's bi...

Modifié par Alex06, 20 janvier 2012 - 04:24 .

[implodinggoat]

Someone With Mass wrote...

They should focus more on the narritve this time, because it's the last game in the trilogy and I don't think any character should get ahead of that fact.

I agree with you completely; but I feel obliged to point out that the lack of focus on the central narrative can't be blamed on having a large squad.  In ME2 there was no reason that you had to have a recruitment mission and a loyalty mission for each character which was largely unrelated to the central narrative.

Consider ME1,  when you get to the Citadel you have one mission which is part of the central narrative and in the process of completing that mission you're given the opportunity to recruit Garrus, Wrex and Tali.   Liara has her own recruitment mission; but its rather closely tied to the main storyline as well.   Likewise in ME1 you have missions which provide drama and character development for your squadmates like the loyalty missions in ME2; but these too are part of the central narrative (Liara's and the Confrontation with Benezia on Noveria and the confrontation with Wrex and the choice between Kaiden and Ashley on Noveria).

In ME2 there are a total of 17 recruitment and loyalty missions (I didn't count Zaeed and Kasumi since they are DLC characters and are thus harder to integrate into the central narrative) which are largely unrelated to the central narrative and a mere 7 missions devoted to the main story.  But; If ME2 had you recruit your entire squad in missions which were part of the main storyline then they could have devoted 7 more missions to developing the central narrative and if they had used the central narrative as a means of character development rather than the peripherary loyalty missions then there would have been an additional 10 missions which could have further developed the central narrative.

The upside of all the peripherary recruitment and loyalty missions in ME2 is that they set up a lot of plotlines for ME3 and further develop the Mass Effect galaxy as a complex setting; but in Mass Effect 3 they have a story to tell and they don't have time to get repeatedly sidetracked.

[stysiaq]

 Less squadmates is a step in a good direction - no doubt about that. Honestly, what I really hope for is that there won't be any recruitment missions - if they will not be tied to the main plot. When I was playing ME2 for the first time, the fact that the recruitment/loyality missions are about 2/3 of all the missions didn't bother me that much, because the cast is brilliant. It is, however, an obvious flaw after second playthrough. 

I strongly doubt, that ME2 could have recruitment missions all be like Legion's or Liara's - central to the plot and obligatory. You don't just bump into 12 individuals by coincidence, but a smaller number is acceptable - thats why I think we will see a few "Legion's recruitments" in ME3.

I hope that ME2s cast will be served justice though.

[Destroy Raiden_]

I don't mind the 6 max squadmate idea if they allow me to hand pick my crew unlike they've ever allowed us to do before. In ME you didn't have to get Garrus or Wrex and it left a void in ME2 you again didn't have to get several people but you also had to get others like Miranda, Mordin, ect you could leave someone but them being left unlike ME effected the plot in the way of you had no one there you couldn't say leave or not get Jack and fill her slot with say soldier girl X or Biotic commando Y it was just a void that was unnecessary.

I would love to be able to use the SB base and pick who I want on the team and fire those I don't like say I pick up Vega and find out he's not a good fit for my shep I can say you're fired and get Athena. Switching out not only characters but their classes as well say I want to make a squad that has 3 engineers and 3 soldiers turns out later in games having some biotics would've helped I got all my engineers killed my bad call but it would've been neat anyhow.

But I'm sure BW will still make me take some people and not allow me to have FT on my staff others the only way I'd be able to put up with wtf crewmen would be if I have Tali and Garrus FT on my team 24/7 these two literally have nothing else to do if they make Tali an Admiral I'm sorry she'd be bad at that she's not a natural leader. If they make Garrus head of the Turian army well....ok maybe he can do that but I doubt they'd do that.


EDIT: I definitely thought 10 - 12 squadmates was way too much for 2. I liked MEs crew size so 6 is fine I just really  hope for my team dextro they make the world right.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 20 janvier 2012 - 04:58 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

Chun Hei wrote...

What the hell do you need all the "specialists" for in ME2 anyway? You are going to destroy the Collector's "homeworld" (Cerberus originally thought it would be a planet) and you have twelve weirdos and machine guns to potential commit (necessary) genocide? Nobody brought nukes. You cannot blow open the doors on the base because you do not even have any real explosives. Why not armor plate the ship with the same material the storage boxes are made of? The probes cut through Normandy's armor like butter but the boxes are immaculate.

Now I'm imagining the Normandy in a big steel crate pulling a solid snake. But you are right just how did TIM expect to have team dextro + 10 weirdos destroy a homeworld again with one ship?

[implodinggoat]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

I don't mind the 6 max squadmate idea if they allow me to hand pick my crew unlike they've ever allowed us to do before.

Not happening.   There are only 4 to 7 permanent squad members available in the game.  4 max if you got Tali and Garrus killed in ME2 and don't have the collectors edition  and 7 if they survived and you have the collector's edition character.

There are supposedly sections where you will have temporary squadmates aside from the permanent ones; but those temporary allies will only be available for a specific mission.

[Kaiser Shepard]

If we were to get characters with actual depth, I'd even welcome a fixed squad, like in Gears.

As it stands, however, already knowing what the ME3 squadmates are gonna be, I'd say it's a decline.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 20 janvier 2012 - 05:09 .

[Jozape]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

If we were to get characters with actual depth, I'd even welcome a fixed squad, like in Gears.

As it stands, however, already knowing what the ME3 squadmates are gonna be, I'd say it's a decline.

I like being able to pick my own squad, for personal or tactical reasons. I guess it wouldn't be too bad though, if we could fully customize their inventories and skill development. Which we should be able to do anyways.

[KPiGame]

I didn't like the fact that I could only have two other squad members, I've always wanted more. It's hard to choose who I want on my team, of course I would want my LI plus whatever all the other bad ass characters there was to offer. I couldn't have them all and it sucked plus, squads IRL tend to be more than 2 (other than yourself, so 4-6 sounds correct.

Modifié par KPiGame, 20 janvier 2012 - 05:38 .

[AdmiralCheez]

From what I gathered from the leaks (and this has probably already been said but noooo way am I reading all 12 pages of this thread on dial-up, no sir), ME3 will have a LOT more temporary allies/companions (whether you can spec them out and order them around, however, I have no idea).

My main issue with the ME3 core squad isn't its small size, but its lack of balance. If you saved Ashley and don't have the CE, Liara could be your only biotic.

[Silver77nz]

I guess what bothered me the most was not that there was 12 squadmates. I didn't mind doing their recruitment missions which is fine but then loyalty missions?!

So I spent the 2nd half of the game fixing everyone's problems:
Miranda-Help my sister is in trouble
Jacob-Help me find my dad
Mordin-Help save my friend please
Garrus-Help me kill the bastard that betrayed me
Grunt-Help me what is wrong with me....puberty:P
Jack-Help me go blow up the Cerberus base
Thane-Help me save my son
Samara-Help me kill my daughter
Tali-please Help me not get exhiled
Legion-Help me deal with the heretics
Kasumi & Zaeed pretty much their recruitment was their help me loyalty mission

Then after that if you wanted to talk to them you had to run all over your ship. So yea I'm looking forward to a smaller crew after all those recruitement and loyalty missions. It would be nice if you could keep some of the main squad but rotate some in and out at times.

[Thoth_Amon]

What a joke. I'm stuck with bland characters like Garrus, Tali, James "Jersey Shore" Vega, and Kaiden / Ashley?

From suck to blow.

[Thoth_Amon]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
My main issue with the ME3 core squad isn't its small size, but its lack of balance. If you saved Ashley and don't have the CE, Liara could be your only biotic.

Let's be honest here.  The only time you needed a certain squad member in either game was an Engineer / Techie for repairs / meds / unlocking in ME1.  You didn't need a "balanced" squad no matter what the loading screen told you in ME2.

Modifié par Thoth_Amon, 20 janvier 2012 - 07:37 .

[Yuoaman]

Thoth_Amon wrote...

What a joke. I'm stuck with bland characters like Garrus, Tali, James "Jersey Shore" Vega, and Kaiden / Ashley?

From suck to blow.

Your Mileage May Vary.

[Thoth_Amon]

Can I at least kill off / sacrifice every permasquad member but Liara?

[Terror_K]

I think 6 is a tad small. 8 or 9 seems about right, IMO.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Squadmates from ME2 should return as expansions later on. Add in a few more Jack missions as, and you get her as a permanent squadmate.

It's the best scenario. The focused narrative is there, and those who want more time with their favorite characters other than the cameos or one or two off missions with them, grab the expansion.

Though, they should do it right if they do this. There needs to be character dialog akin to the baseline characters and not the Zaeed/Kasumi chatter from ME2. Bioware is likely working on DLC for ME3, and going for DLC to reintegrate the ME2 characters and have them as permanent parts of the squad would be a hell of a lot better than more Firewalker packs.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Much rather have a small squad with more interaction than a big squad with little interaction.