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[habitat 67]

wright1978 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

That massive post can be summarized down to: "I'm unhappy that Bioware didn't pander to my particular favourites and preferences." As can most of this thread and most of others like it, actually.

Really i thought most of this thread could be summarised as  "I'm happy Bioware did pander to my particular favourites."

<3<3<3<3I'm happy.<3<3<3<3

[Vapaa]

habitat 67 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

That massive post can be summarized down to: "I'm unhappy that Bioware didn't pander to my particular favourites and preferences." As can most of this thread and most of others like it, actually.

Really i thought most of this thread could be summarised as  "I'm happy Bioware did pander to my particular favourites."

<3<3<3<3I'm happy.<3<3<3<3

Same here

The roster is balanced, so the basics needs are filled, whether people like it or not is just a matter of preference.

[CptData]

Tokion wrote...

Bioware has been strangely quiet about this. I wouldn't be surprise if the crew was actually much bigger than the current ones *known*. If not, then that just made the entire ME2 story even more pointless. Afterall, why introduce all those characters if they are just going to be cameo for the next game? Just like the disappointment the community had on Ashley/Kaiden/Liara in ME2 main game?

Wouldn't count on that.

Lets put it this way (just a theory):

ME2 was basically about gathering a team big & specialized enough to go through the O4 Relay and kick the Collectors right into ... whereever it hurts most. ALL of them could die, including Shepard. Only Joker is guaranteed to survive that job.

So one of the Shepard-survives-worst-case scenarios is, that s/he comes back with just two surviving squadmates. If one of them is Zaeed and loyalized yet, you can kill him on his mission too - leaving Shepard with exactly one surviving member of the Suicide Mission plus Joker.

So to speak, if BW ever intended to have most of the squadmates of ME2 back in action in ME3, some players would start with just 3 or 4 squadmates (Liara, VS, Vega + SMS - SM Survivor) while others have a roster of 16 characters or so. Not only that's not fair, it's also horribly complicated: all of those characters need dialogues, a role, a mission, some significance. I had enough "filler characters" in ME2 already - squadmates I used only on their LM and in the SM.

In short: BW never intended to bring back the full ME2 cast in ME3 at any given time while developing ME3.

[BatmanPWNS]

CptData wrote...

Tokion wrote...

Bioware has been strangely quiet about this. I wouldn't be surprise if the crew was actually much bigger than the current ones *known*. If not, then that just made the entire ME2 story even more pointless. Afterall, why introduce all those characters if they are just going to be cameo for the next game? Just like the disappointment the community had on Ashley/Kaiden/Liara in ME2 main game?

Wouldn't count on that.

Lets put it this way (just a theory):

ME2 was basically about gathering a team big & specialized enough to go through the O4 Relay and kick the Collectors right into ... whereever it hurts most. ALL of them could die, including Shepard. Only Joker is guaranteed to survive that job.

So one of the Shepard-survives-worst-case scenarios is, that s/he comes back with just two surviving squadmates. If one of them is Zaeed and loyalized yet, you can kill him on his mission too - leaving Shepard with exactly one surviving member of the Suicide Mission plus Joker.

So to speak, if BW ever intended to have most of the squadmates of ME2 back in action in ME3, some players would start with just 3 or 4 squadmates (Liara, VS, Vega + SMS - SM Survivor) while others have a roster of 16 characters or so. Not only that's not fair, it's also horribly complicated: all of those characters need dialogues, a role, a mission, some significance. I had enough "filler characters" in ME2 already - squadmates I used only on their LM and in the SM.

In short: BW never intended to bring back the full ME2 cast in ME3 at any given time while developing ME3.

*Slow Clap*
Doubt it'll change anyone's opinion though.

[AgitatedLemon]

CptData wrote...

Tokion wrote...

Bioware has been strangely quiet about this. I wouldn't be surprise if the crew was actually much bigger than the current ones *known*. If not, then that just made the entire ME2 story even more pointless. Afterall, why introduce all those characters if they are just going to be cameo for the next game? Just like the disappointment the community had on Ashley/Kaiden/Liara in ME2 main game?

Wouldn't count on that.

Lets put it this way (just a theory):

ME2 was basically about gathering a team big & specialized enough to go through the O4 Relay and kick the Collectors right into ... whereever it hurts most. ALL of them could die, including Shepard. Only Joker is guaranteed to survive that job.

So one of the Shepard-survives-worst-case scenarios is, that s/he comes back with just two surviving squadmates. If one of them is Zaeed and loyalized yet, you can kill him on his mission too - leaving Shepard with exactly one surviving member of the Suicide Mission plus Joker.

So to speak, if BW ever intended to have most of the squadmates of ME2 back in action in ME3, some players would start with just 3 or 4 squadmates (Liara, VS, Vega + SMS - SM Survivor) while others have a roster of 16 characters or so. Not only that's not fair, it's also horribly complicated: all of those characters need dialogues, a role, a mission, some significance. I had enough "filler characters" in ME2 already - squadmates I used only on their LM and in the SM.

In short: BW never intended to bring back the full ME2 cast in ME3 at any given time while developing ME3.

@bold: If Shepard and 1 other person are the only ones to live, then Shepard dies. You must have at least 2 other squadmates to survive.

[Vapaa]

CptData wrote...

So one of the Shepard-survives-worst-case scenarios is, that s/he comes back with just two surviving squadmates. If one of them is Zaeed and loyalized yet, you can kill him on his mission too - leaving Shepard with exactly one surviving member of the Suicide Mission plus Joker.

That's not true; if you have only two squadmates including Zaeed, he cannot die on this LM; the fact that you need at least two squadmates gives him plot armor.

[hawat333]

I even have one less, I tend to kill Tali in some gruesome ways in ME2.
But if lesser characters in ME3 also means more complicated characters, not just archetypes, then I'm glad they took this approach.

[wright1978]

Vapaä wrote...

habitat 67 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

That massive post can be summarized down to: "I'm unhappy that Bioware didn't pander to my particular favourites and preferences." As can most of this thread and most of others like it, actually.

Really i thought most of this thread could be summarised as  "I'm happy Bioware did pander to my particular favourites."

<3<3<3<3I'm happy.<3<3<3<3

Same here

The roster is balanced, so the basics needs are filled, whether people like it or not is just a matter of preference.

Must be a different meaning of balanced. Maybe you just missed the un off the front.

[Ryzaki]

Not to mention it's actually pretty damn uncommon to kill off more than 6 people in the SM (unintentionally at least). The game practically beats you over the head with what you have to do.

[AgitatedLemon]

wright1978 wrote...

Vapaä wrote...

habitat 67 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

That massive post can be summarized down to: "I'm unhappy that Bioware didn't pander to my particular favourites and preferences." As can most of this thread and most of others like it, actually.

Really i thought most of this thread could be summarised as  "I'm happy Bioware did pander to my particular favourites."

<3<3<3<3I'm happy.<3<3<3<3

Same here

The roster is balanced, so the basics needs are filled, whether people like it or not is just a matter of preference.

Must be a different meaning of balanced. Maybe you just missed the un off the front.

Am I the only one who's noticed that there's no Sentinel on the squad, if you killed off Kaidan (I did)?

Liara is an Adept
Vega and Ash are Soldiers
Garrus is a Soldier/Infiltrator
Tali is an Engineer

*Spoiler character 1 isn't a Sentinel. I don't know about Spoiler #2.

Oh well.

[Sheppardian]

 With less characters there is more room to strengthen the existing members stories and make the choices that much more compelling. I played through ME2 without using Jacob,Thane and Jack (Kasumi and Zaeed were non-runners.) with a smaller squad to choose from it will make you become more attached to key characters so when really hard decisions are needed to be made (hoping for another Kaiden vs. Ash) it'll be more of a dilemma making your choice, as if you were to choose between say Garrus and Zaeed you'd easily pick Garrus but say the decision was Garrus or Mordin (personal favourite) you'd spend hours weighing up the pro's and cons before making the choice. P.s. Bioware, don't make me choose between them..

[AgitatedLemon]

Ryzaki wrote...

Not to mention it's actually pretty damn uncommon to kill off more than 6 people in the SM (unintentionally at least). The game practically beats you over the head with what you have to do.

On my first playthrough, I lost 3 people, and that was because I didn't buy ship upgrades (I didn't know, and I didn't metagame). Everyone else survived.

It's THAT hard to lose people, even to someone who had no prior knowledge of how the death system worked.

[implodinggoat]

Tokion wrote...

Bioware has been strangely quiet about this. I wouldn't be surprise if the crew was actually much bigger than the current ones *known*. If not, then that just made the entire ME2 story even more pointless. Afterall, why introduce all those characters if they are just going to be cameo for the next game? Just like the disappointment the community had on Ashley/Kaiden/Liara in ME2 main game?

I'd like to believe that they've got a few more permanent squad members up their sleaves; but I'm skeptical.   The number I've stated (4 to 7) is what's surmized from the leaked beta script and while things have changed between when the script leaked and now, I doubt that they've added in a completely new permanent squaddie because that is a pretty major undertaking at this late date in the game's development.

[implodinggoat]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Am I the only one who's noticed that there's no Sentinel on the squad, if you killed off Kaidan (I did)?

Liara is an Adept
Vega and Ash are Soldiers
Garrus is a Soldier/Infiltrator
Tali is an Engineer

*Spoiler character 1 isn't a Sentinel. I don't know about Spoiler #2.

Yeah I've been raging about the lack of a Sentinel a bit myself since I play Soldier and I saved Ash in my default playthrough and her focus on direct weapon damage is pretty much useless to me.

On the uphand rumor has it that the Spoiler Character is a tech who has Overload and Incinerate which largely fills the diverse direct damage role that Miranda filled as a Sentinel in ME2.

If you'd like to learn more about the powers for the various squad members I'd suggest the ....
ME3 Powers - Stats and Evolutions Thread.

There's a lot of discussion about the powers of the rumored squad in there; but like this thread there's a ban on mentioning the names of the unnanounced characters so you don't have to worry about that getting spoiled.

[AgitatedLemon]

I'm not worried about their powers, more so the role they fulfill in combat.

Example, Jacob in ME2 was a decent support, he could Pull people and leave them open to enchanced Conc. Shots, Warps, Slams, and Throws. Plus he has Incendiary ammo (I always upgraded to Squad)

[Kadell]

Truthfully, I tried to keep everyone alive so that they could ALL be on my squad permanently. When I first heard about them making the squad list smaller with other characters being temporary, I was furious because it made it seem like I might have save some people for nothing (I did a playthrough 3 times in a row just to keep everyone in my squad alive). But after reading the *bleep* I see that I don't have much to worry about.

[AgitatedLemon]

Kadell wrote...

Truthfully, I tried to keep everyone alive so that they could ALL be on my squad permanently. When I first heard about them making the squad list smaller with other characters being temporary, I was furious because it made it seem like I might have save some people for nothing (I did a playthrough 3 times in a row just to keep everyone in my squad alive). But after reading the *bleep* I see that I don't have much to worry about.

First you were mad, but now you don't care?

What?

[Kaiser Shepard]

Vapaä wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I'm still disappointed at the lack of proper roleplaying - why shouldn't I be? - but that has little to do with this completely seperate complaint.

You should not be surprised, ME games have never been good at role-playing.

I am not surprised. I am, however, still disappointed.

[SnakeStrike8]

implodinggoat wrote...

Tali.
Garrus.

I dislike the inclusion of these two. Much as I like the characters (and I like them a lot), I get the feeling that Bioware's run out of characterization options for 'em. We probed out Garrus' and Tali's backgrounds in ME 1, and anyone who went from there to ME 2 has to agree that they both had far fewer lines of dialogue than they did in ME 1. Even then it seemed like a ceiling had been reached with how much these two could do. Now they're back, and I'm forced to wonder just what more Bioware could do with them.

[AgitatedLemon]

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

Tali.
Garrus.

I dislike the inclusion of these two. Much as I like the characters (and I like them a lot), I get the feeling that Bioware's run out of characterization options for 'em. We probed out Garrus' and Tali's backgrounds in ME 1, and anyone who went from there to ME 2 has to agree that they both had far fewer lines of dialogue than they did in ME 1. Even then it seemed like a ceiling had been reached with how much these two could do. Now they're back, and I'm forced to wonder just what more Bioware could do with them.

Why, fan service, of course.

the same reason they're even part of the squad in ME3.

[SnakeStrike8]

S'pose that's all there is to it.
Still, if all they do is chatter about the old days, I'm going to be annoyed. C'mon, Garrus, do something awesome! Shoot at some thug and accidentally hit a bystander! Then stare at your hands in horror and ask 'What hath mine hands wrought?!' Develop a little, mate! Put on a show for your diehard followers!

[wright1978]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

Tali.
Garrus.

I dislike the inclusion of these two. Much as I like the characters (and I like them a lot), I get the feeling that Bioware's run out of characterization options for 'em. We probed out Garrus' and Tali's backgrounds in ME 1, and anyone who went from there to ME 2 has to agree that they both had far fewer lines of dialogue than they did in ME 1. Even then it seemed like a ceiling had been reached with how much these two could do. Now they're back, and I'm forced to wonder just what more Bioware could do with them.

Why, fan service, of course.

the same reason they're even part of the squad in ME3.

I disagree with the squadmate system for ME3. But going past that for argument sake if you were going to only have 2 squaddies from ME2, pairing Tali & Garrus is plain wrong imo. They haven't got contrasting fanbases, so what you are in effect doing is doubly punishing some players while doubly rewarding others. You need to choose 2 based on a fairer criteria other than we don't want to p*ss off those 2 fanbases. Tali & Legion would make more sense. Choose a side in their conflict and get that choice of squaddie.

[AgitatedLemon]

wright1978 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

Tali.
Garrus.

I dislike the inclusion of these two. Much as I like the characters (and I like them a lot), I get the feeling that Bioware's run out of characterization options for 'em. We probed out Garrus' and Tali's backgrounds in ME 1, and anyone who went from there to ME 2 has to agree that they both had far fewer lines of dialogue than they did in ME 1. Even then it seemed like a ceiling had been reached with how much these two could do. Now they're back, and I'm forced to wonder just what more Bioware could do with them.

Why, fan service, of course.

the same reason they're even part of the squad in ME3.

I disagree with the squadmate system for ME3. But going past that for argument sake if you were going to only have 2 squaddies from ME2, pairing Tali & Garrus is plain wrong imo. They haven't got contrasting fanbases, so what you are in effect doing is doubly punishing some players while doubly rewarding others. You need to choose 2 based on a fairer criteria other than we don't want to p*ss off those 2 fanbases. Tali & Legion would make more sense. Choose a side in their conflict and get that choice of squaddie.

I dare argue that a Dextro needn't actually even be considered. Neither of them that we have really contribute that much to the overarching plot.

I daresay Garrus and Tali could be replaced with Miranda and Legion, withmore satisfactory results.

(Not to say I dislike Tali and Garrus, I don't)

[LightningSamus]

What? No Grunt?