596 réponses à ce sujet

[Aimi]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Though of course it also depends on what class Shepard is and what weapon upgrades he took. If you're an Infil. and you maxed out Sniper and Biotic damage, then Thane is arguably the most useful overall combat oriented squadmate.

Then again, I don't know many Infils. who maxed out biotic damage, or put any points into it.

Of course, my Sentinel Shepard synchs really well with Miranda and any tech or biotic specced squadmate, so I had lots of wiggle room, and my experience probably isn't the best.

Nah, Thane was redundant because he was worse than Miranda in virtually every way. You got him comparatively late in the game, he had to dump three points into Throw before he could unlock Warp, he had the useless Shredder Ammo bonus power that robbed you of another three points, his passive power was clearly worse than Miranda's, and he didn't deal noticeably more damage than she did.

Zaeed and Garrus were the best snipers; like Thane, both of them could still debuff barriers, while Garrus could also debuff shields and Zaeed could debuff armor. Both of them also dealt more damage than Thane did, and Zaeed had better crowd-control.

---

As for your own builds, I would actually think that Miranda would be the most redundant squad member for a Sentinel Shepard. She didn't bring anything new to the table except Slam (for setting up Warp bombs), and Jacob, as the best pullbot, was better for setting up Warp bombs anyway (and had an excellent squad ammo power to boot). I'd say that the best squad for a Sentinel Shep, ceteris paribus, would be Jacob/Grunt or Jacob/Zaeed. Shep removes any and all enemy protections, Jacob sets up Warp bombs and provides Incendiary Ammo while also tanking if necessary, and Grunt/Zaeed tanks and deals damage. To be sure, Jacob has slight redundancy with Grunt due to the shared Incendiary Ammo and shield powers, but on certain missions (e.g. the Derelict Reaper) that's actually a good thing.

[implodinggoat]

Saiyan1126 wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Liara recovered the body, and for me that is quite a favor and the only redeeming feature of hers, annoying bore that she is.  She is lucky that Bioware had her do that.  Although I'm about to play Lair of the Shadow Broker

Do this. As a person who hated Liara in both ME 1&2, LotSB redeemed her character in my eyes.

Agreed,  she's got a terrible part in the main game; but she's got a really great part in Lair of the Shadow Broker.  

That said I was quite partial to her character back in ME1.   Granted I've got a thing for Intellectual girls; but I'm still surprised how many people didn't like her in ME1.

[Bobrzy]

implodinggoat wrote...

Though I do like Garrus and Tali the versatility of the ME3 squad is a big concern.

The only Sentinel in the game may be dead, leaving you without access to the most versatile class in the game.

If you don't have Kaiden you'll start the game with Ashley and James Vega, both Soldiers, which is extra problematic if like me you play as a Soldier.

Liara is the only biotic in the game if you don't get your hands on the Collector's edition.

And if you got Tali and Garrus killed then the spoiler squaddie is the only tech in the game.

To be completely honest "versatility" is not exactly something player has to take account for when chosing a squad. You should go with people you like, i'm a good example of doing so - on my multiple playthrough's of both games i rarely used someone outside "Garrus + Krogan" scheme, and even on Insanity i did pretty good. If you make good orders, set your guys right where you want them you will be fine with any squad on any difficulty level.

implodinggoat wrote...
That said I was quite partial to her
character back in ME1.   Granted I've got a thing for Intellectual
girls; but I'm still surprised how many people didn't like her in ME1.

Like me for example ;d I hated her in ME1, extremely childish persona. I still romanced her, because, well, she was blue (if Cpt. Kirk can bang green chicks i can do blue!) ;-)

Modifié par Bobrzy, 21 janvier 2012 - 02:36 .

[AgitatedLemon]

daqs wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Though of course it also depends on what class Shepard is and what weapon upgrades he took. If you're an Infil. and you maxed out Sniper and Biotic damage, then Thane is arguably the most useful overall combat oriented squadmate.

Then again, I don't know many Infils. who maxed out biotic damage, or put any points into it.

Of course, my Sentinel Shepard synchs really well with Miranda and any tech or biotic specced squadmate, so I had lots of wiggle room, and my experience probably isn't the best.

Nah, Thane was redundant because he was worse than Miranda in virtually every way. You got him comparatively late in the game, he had to dump three points into Throw before he could unlock Warp, he had the useless Shredder Ammo bonus power that robbed you of another three points, his passive power was clearly worse than Miranda's, and he didn't deal noticeably more damage than she did.

Zaeed and Garrus were the best snipers; like Thane, both of them could still debuff barriers, while Garrus could also debuff shields and Zaeed could debuff armor. Both of them also dealt more damage than Thane did, and Zaeed had better crowd-control.

---

As for your own builds, I would actually think that Miranda would be the most redundant squad member for a Sentinel Shepard. She didn't bring anything new to the table except Slam (for setting up Warp bombs), and Jacob, as the best pullbot, was better for setting up Warp bombs anyway (and had an excellent squad ammo power to boot). I'd say that the best squad for a Sentinel Shep, ceteris paribus, would be Jacob/Grunt or Jacob/Zaeed. Shep removes any and all enemy protections, Jacob sets up Warp bombs and provides Incendiary Ammo while also tanking if necessary, and Grunt/Zaeed tanks and deals damage. To be sure, Jacob has slight redundancy with Grunt due to the shared Incendiary Ammo and shield powers, but on certain missions (e.g. the Derelict Reaper) that's actually a good thing.

I meant Thane is useful in terms of raw weapon damage, since Garrus doesn't get the +50% bonus, IIRC. And I don't bother levelling Throw except to unlock Warp, and I ignore Shredder ammo, since my bonus power is Warp ammo.

2 Sentinels actually synch really well for anything higher than... (Whatever is the step up from Normal), what with the dual defence removal. My Sentinel can maxe Warp and Overload, and grab Power armor for the power buff and increased radius on the armor surge, and Miranda of course can max heavy Warp and heavy Overload, and grab the + HP bonus from her passive. The extra Warp and my Warp ammo all but removes SMG's weakness against Armor, while the Overload spam can strip shields in seconds, and the Warps can also strip away Barriers, along with the Warp ammo.

[Dragoonlordz]

All I know is I would of liked Legion and Kasumi in my team for this final show down, I am sad that I don't get to have them watching my back as head off into battle anymore. Who was more useful seems moot point to me because all depended on what class Shep was and what skills/gear boosted on teammates. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 21 janvier 2012 - 02:31 .

[implodinggoat]

Bobrzy wrote...

To be completely honest "versatility" is not exactly something player has to take account for when chosing a squad. You should go with people you like, i'm a good example of doing so - on my multiple playthrough's of both games i rarely used someone outside "Garrus + Krogan" scheme, and even on Insanity i did pretty good. If you make good order, set your guys right where you want them you will be fine with any squad on any difficulty level.

For ME1 who you chose for your squad didn't make much difference and I too tended to roll with Wrex and Garrus as well simply because I liked the characters and prefered a more militaristic styled squad (matching green camo for the whole team).

But in ME2 picking the right squad for the right situation definitely makes a big difference.  Granted you can slug through the game with just about anyone even on insanity; but if you're like me and you like actively ordering your squad to use their powers then you definitely want a squad that gives you a lot of fun options to screw around with.

[Aimi]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

I meant Thane is useful in terms of raw weapon damage, since Garrus doesn't get the +50% bonus, IIRC. And I don't bother levelling Throw except to unlock Warp, and I ignore Shredder ammo, since my bonus power is Warp ammo.

The point is that the points are wasted, and badly, on Thane. Before LotSB, the optimal Thane build was Throw 6 Unstable Warp 10 Drell Marksman 10 Shredder Ammo 3, which is clearly subpar. While that meant Thane could deal more raw damage than Garrus, his Warp sucked and he still wasn't as awesome as Zaeed, or as useful as Miranda. Hence the 'redundant' comment.

AgitatedLemon wrote...

2 Sentinels actually synch really well for anything higher than... (Whatever is the step up from Normal), what with the dual defence removal. My Sentinel can maxe Warp and Overload, and grab Power armor for the power buff and increased radius on the armor surge, and Miranda of course can max heavy Warp and heavy Overload, and grab the + HP bonus from her passive. The extra Warp and my Warp ammo all but removes SMG's weakness against Armor, while the Overload spam can strip shields in seconds, and the Warps can also strip away Barriers, along with the Warp ammo.

Eh, not really. Since a single Overload will wipe out a Blue Suns Trooper's shields, and a single Concussive Shot (let alone Warp) will wipe out a Collector Drone's or Sisterhood Initiate's barriers, the added defense stripping really doesn't do a whole lot for you. Plus, it means you have to cram all those extra powers onto your power bar, unless you want to constantly pause the game, and obviously that's no good.

Besides, even on Insanity, a mook's health bar still has more points than his protections. You need damage-dealers and people to set up biotic combos.

[Bobrzy]

implodinggoat wrote...
But in ME2 picking the right squad for the right situation definitely makes a big difference.  Granted you can slug through the game with just about anyone even on insanity; but if you're like me and you like actively ordering your squad to use their powers then you definitely want a squad that gives you a lot of fun options to screw around with.

True, adding biotic/tech member is definetely "spicing" things up in combat, since you get more ways to deal with your problems.

But i also noticed that certain characters were very "weak". Take Jack for example - biotic wave was working nicely, but in close quarters combat she was dying very often. And it's weird, because she was able to weild shotgun, which is exclusively CQ weapon.

I just felt like i need to babysit some of the characters, while, when i choose Grunt, he manages to survive fine by himself (using Fortification in most dangerous moments).

Cthulhu42 wrote...
That's why it's good that the ME3
squadmates have both more powers than in ME2 and each have two unique
powers instead of just one. So you will be getting a lot more fun
options in combat.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

Sure, but it seems that Soldier class will be pretty useless. In ME2 it was the only class that could wield AR (at least untill visit on the Collector's Ship), but in ME3 the only thing that class is better than others, is being able to bring weapons from all classes. Pretty useless if you ask me, since i'm a soldier and i never use Pistols anyway.

Modifié par Bobrzy, 21 janvier 2012 - 02:46 .

[AgitatedLemon]

daqs wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

2 Sentinels actually synch really well for anything higher than... (Whatever is the step up from Normal), what with the dual defence removal. My Sentinel can maxe Warp and Overload, and grab Power armor for the power buff and increased radius on the armor surge, and Miranda of course can max heavy Warp and heavy Overload, and grab the + HP bonus from her passive. The extra Warp and my Warp ammo all but removes SMG's weakness against Armor, while the Overload spam can strip shields in seconds, and the Warps can also strip away Barriers, along with the Warp ammo.

Eh, not really. Since a single Overload will wipe out a Blue Suns Trooper's shields, and a single Concussive Shot (let alone Warp) will wipe out a Collector Drone's or Sisterhood Initiate's barriers, the added defense stripping really doesn't do a whole lot for you. Plus, it means you have to cram all those extra powers onto your power bar, unless you want to constantly pause the game, and obviously that's no good.

Besides, even on Insanity, a mook's health bar still has more points than his protections. You need damage-dealers and people to set up biotic combos.

Mook enemies aren't an amazing example, for obvious reasons. And what's wrong with having to occasionally pause the game? Not that it's even necessary, I could very well unload my Mattock into them and call it a day.

You're also neglecting Shepard's own evolutions and weapon proficiencies.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 21 janvier 2012 - 02:43 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Bobrzy wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...
But in ME2 picking the right squad for the right situation definitely makes a big difference.  Granted you can slug through the game with just about anyone even on insanity; but if you're like me and you like actively ordering your squad to use their powers then you definitely want a squad that gives you a lot of fun options to screw around with.

True, adding biotic/tech member is definetely "spicing" things up in combat, since you get more ways to deal with your problems.

But i also noticed that certain characters were very "weak". Take Jack for example - biotic wave was working nicely, but in close quarters combat she was dying very often. And it's weird, because she was able to weild shotgun, which is exclusively CQ weapon.

I just felt like i need to babysit some of the characters, while, when i choose Grunt, he manages to survive fine by himself (using Fortification in most dangerous moments).

Jack's Shockwave I feel was best used on masses of Husks. Not very useful anywhere else.

And Grunt has survivability out the ass because he's the tank of the squad.

[implodinggoat]

Bobrzy wrote...

Sure, but it seems that Soldier class will be pretty useless. In ME2 it was the only class that could wield AR (at least untill visit on the Collector's Ship), but in ME3 the only thing that class is better than others, is being able to bring weapons from all classes. Pretty useless if you ask me, since i'm a soldier and i never use Pistols anyway.

Soldier is my preffered class and I'm pretty happy with the changes.

A few things I'd point out...

1: Concussive shot is way more useful this time around since you can power it up with ammo powers.
2:  Being able to carry an Assault rifle, Sniper Rifle and Shotgun gives you an excellent weapon for any range.
3:  There are some much more interesting pistols in the game this time around, one shoots explosive rounds and one acts like the Arc Projector.
4:  I'm pretty sure you can carry an SMG in place of a pistol if you want.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 21 janvier 2012 - 03:08 .

[Bobrzy]

implodinggoat wrote...

1: Concussive shot is way more useful this time around since you can power it up with ammo powers.
2:  Being able to carry an Assault rifle, Sniper Rifle and Shotgun gives you an excellent weapon for any range.
3:  There are some much more interesting pistols in the game this time around, one shoots explosive rounds and one acts like the Arc Projector.
4:  I'm pretty sure you can carry an SMG in place of a pistol if you want.

That's interesting, trying to avoid spoilers made me believe that Soldier class was nerfed while getting nothing in return.

Nr. 1 sounds great, Conc shot was very usefull anyway but now, boosted with chosen ammo bonuses, it can be even deadlier.

Nr. 3 is something that i'm gonna need to verify for myself, but if indeed there are more powerfull pistols, i'm gonna give them a try.

I wonder how weapon mods are going to work, i hope there won't be 9 levels of their "power" like in ME1, that was just riddiculous. But i'm sure stuff like that (plus some of the things you mentioned) will make even a full soldier squad more versatile. Never thought that's going to happen.

[Mclouvins]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

Bobrzy wrote...

To be completely honest "versatility" is not exactly something player has to take account for when chosing a squad. You should go with people you like, i'm a good example of doing so - on my multiple playthrough's of both games i rarely used someone outside "Garrus + Krogan" scheme, and even on Insanity i did pretty good. If you make good order, set your guys right where you want them you will be fine with any squad on any difficulty level.

For ME1 who you chose for your squad didn't make much difference and I too tended to roll with Wrex and Garrus as well simply because I liked the characters and prefered a more militaristic styled squad (matching green camo for the whole team).

But in ME2 picking the right squad for the right situation definitely makes a big difference.  Granted you can slug through the game with just about anyone even on insanity; but if you're like me and you like actively ordering your squad to use their powers then you definitely want a squad that gives you a lot of fun options to screw around with.

That's why it's good that the ME3 squadmates have both more powers than in ME2 and each have two unique powers instead of just one. So you will be getting a lot more fun options in combat.

That's actually a really good point, ME2 basically relied on niche roles for squad members because they had so few abilities, and loyalty missions were designed around those specialities. For missions in ME3 where a specific non-permanent squadmate is utilized there will probably be something similar regarding enemy distribution but for those where you only have access to permanent squadmates the increased number of available skills provides broader ways to utilize a smaller roster. The point where whatever lack of skill diversity would be most evident would be on insanity and if you're not optimizing there in favor of doing it however you want why bother playing on insanity at all? As many people have said on many previous threads BW decided to go for more character depth instead of something like 3-4 conversations and then calibrations, and then with that smaller pool decided to introduce things like banter. Some people may not like the design choice but they should at least respect the choice and not descend into the favoritsm nonsense.

[implodinggoat]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

That's why it's good that the ME3 squadmates have both more powers than in ME2 and each have two unique powers instead of just one. So you will be getting a lot more fun options in combat.

From what I've seen the power sets for the ME3 squad members generally seem to be more versatile than the ME2 characters.   Here's a relevant post from the Stats and Powers thread....

AVPen wrote...

Ashley:
Concussive Shot
Disruptor Ammo
Inferno Grenade
Marksman (Increases Weapon Damage temporarily)

Kaidan:
Reave
Barrier
Overload
Cryo Blast

James:
Carnage
Fortification
Incendiary Ammo
Frag Grenade

Liara:
Singularity
Warp
Stasis
Warp Ammo

Garrus:
Concussive Shot
Armor-Piercing Ammo
Overload
Proximity Mine

Tali:
Combat Drone
Energy Drain
Sabotage
Defense Drone (Stays by her side and protects her)

Secret Squadmate #1:
Overload
Incinerate
Decoy  (Similar to Combat Drone; but more focused on distraction than offense)
Defense Matrix: Reduces damage taken.

Secret Squadmate #2:
Slam
Biotic Focus (Makes the Squad's Biotic powers stronger)
Reave (???)
???

[Jozape]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

daqs wrote...

Jack, Samara, Legion, and Thane, from most redundant to least redundant. Mordin and Tali were the most niche. 

That's funny; those two were probably my most-used squadmates, along with Garrus.

Same, plus Legion towards the end. I remember those drones being quite useful on normal difficulty.

[Yuoaman]

In ME2 I pretty much never chose anyone based on their powers - I'd usually come up with ways of dealing with the situations as they came up. I much preferred it to ME1's where I had to bring along a tech squadmate if I ever thought there would be even a chance of any hacking taking place.

[Someone With Mass]

Most squadmates in ME3 can affect the whole squad with their passive powers.

Tali can boost the tech powers, Liara can boost the biotic powers, Garrus can boost the ammo powers or other combat powers like Carnage or Concussive Shot.

And they seem to have more unique powers this time.

[Aimi]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Mook enemies aren't an amazing example, for obvious reasons. And what's wrong with having to occasionally pause the game? Not that it's even necessary, I could very well unload my Mattock into them and call it a day.

You're also neglecting Shepard's own evolutions and weapon proficiencies.

Mook enemies are the, uh, only example that really matters, because they make up the overwhelming majority of enemies you encounter in any given situation. I don't know about you, but I tend to think in tactics that are relevant to most of the enemies I'll be fighting at any given time, not tactics that are irrelevant to most of the enemies I'll be fighting at any given time.

Including the Blue Suns Centurion and Eclipse Vanguard types doesn't really change anything. Sentinel Shep has an SMG: Warp/Overload once, zap the enemy a few times...et la voilà, the protection is down anyway. No multiple Sentinels required.

Of course you can just bring Miri everywhere with your Sentinel if you really really want to. You can do anything you bloody well want to and still bull through pretty much anything, even on Insanity, because BioWare games are mostly easy enough to do that with little consequence. But we're talking about optimization, and redundant squadmates, and I honestly can't think of a better definition of redundancy than a squadmate that does everything that Shepard can do, except not as well.

---

Occasionally having to pause the game messes with flow, makes the proceedings longer, and is generally something I prefer to avoid if at all possible. YMMV, I guess. You could be a complete lunatic like Sylvius and refuse to do anything but pause, even when you're aiming your gun, on the grounds that you have to remove twitch from the game to make it a "true" RPG.

---

I don't really think I am neglecting Shep's weapon/power proficiencies, here. You're playing Sentinel. Of your many powers, there are four that you are Definitely Going To Max Out: Tech Armor, Warp, Overload, and your passive. I honestly can't think of any way to avoid maxing those out and still developing a sensible build for the Sentinel, unless you do something silly like pick up Energy Drain instead of Overload (which doesn't really change the way the build works anyway).

And regardless of your build and weapon proficiencies, unless you pick up Slam, the only thing the Sentinel can't do is set up Warp bombs. Shep can detonate them, but not set them up. So if you need a squadmate to set up Warp bombs, why bother with Miranda when Jacob does a much better job of that and can give everybody Incendiary Ammo to boot? And if you do go with Slam as your bonus power, why do you need Miranda at all?

[WolfForce99]

implodinggoat wrote...

Please Refrain from any Spoilers Naming the Unnanounced Characters.

So it appears that our Mass Effect 3 squad will max out at 6 characters (7 if you have the Collector's Edition) and if you failed to save Garrus and Tali, you'll only have 4 permanent squad members.

Rumored ME3 Squad.
Ashley or Kaiden.
Tali.
Garrus.
Liara.
James Vega.
Spoiler Character.
Collector's Edition DLC Character.

Now while I tend to agree that having 12 permanent squadmates in ME2 was a tad excessive and having a smaller squad could allow for greater character development than we saw in ME2;  I still can't help but be dissappointed that at best I'll have half as many potential allies in ME3 as I did in ME2 and that I could potentially have an even smaller squad than I did in ME1.

So what's your opinion?   Do you think the 6 man squad is an improvement?  Would you have preffered a squad as large as ME2?  Or something in between?

I hope that the Collector Edition DLC Character is Jack.

Modifié par WolfForce99, 21 janvier 2012 - 05:22 .

[AcidGlow]

What if you have a LI like Jack, Miranda, Thane :\\ I really hope they will tag along or atleast you will be able to go see them on a planet or something. Other wise ME2 romances (besides tali and garrus) are for nothing :\\

[Yuoaman]

AcidGlow wrote...

What if you have a LI like Jack, Miranda, Thane : I really hope they will tag along or atleast you will be able to go see them on a planet or something. Other wise ME2 romances (besides tali and garrus) are for nothing :

I've heard you'll be able to resume romances with ME2 LIs once you meet them, but I'm not exactly sure how they'll work.

[Chun Hei]

If you like a character no reason is too lame to justify him/her being there or good enough to justify him/her not being there. If you do not like a character no reason is good enough to justify him/her being there or too lame to justify him/her not being there.

That is if you are going to be a raging nerd whining on BSN all day and night.

EDIT: I am tired and posted this on the wrong thread. Good night.