493 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

 

BlueMagitek wrote...

Truly Shep is in ecstasy.

If that isn't the look of someone that's experiencing ecstasy I don't know what is. 

But what's so funny? Care to name the last time you saw a person make a happy face during orgasm? 

[Goneaviking]

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

While I have always taken the position that people, including young women like the fictional Nef, have a responsibility to take appropriate precautions to provide for their own safety, the notion that because a woman demonstrates bad judgement periodically makes her rape and/or murder less vile because she somehow encouraged it is an obscenity in modern Western thinking.

I don't care if Nef was the town bike, Morinth had no right to kill her and any promiscuity she may (hypothetically) have taken part in would not make her murder any more justifiable.

At no point have you, or anyone else, or the game itself, presented evidence that Nef was up to anything more sinister than looking for a little excitement and falling for the game's femme fatale. What you have done is imply, with the thinnest of veils, is that she was a woman of loose morals and so it was okay for Morinth to prey upon her.

And still this is better than what Samara does. And still Morinth should be reasoned with after she is reqruited. And still Morinth does a lot more useful for the galaxy, by helping in a very serious mission. And still Morinth is no worse then the other bunch of the Normandy. 

Samara kills criminals. Morinth kills people who are not criminals (and presumably criminals as well if she finds them attractive enough).

I can see why you'd think Samara is worse. She doesn't kill ****s.

The other characters on the Normandy aren't part of the OPs discussion so I won't comment on them.

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

Samara kills criminals. Morinth kills people who are not criminals (and presumably criminals as well if she finds them attractive enough).

I can see why you'd think Samara is worse. She doesn't kill ****s.

The other characters on the Normandy aren't part of the OPs discussion so I won't comment on them.

Morinth finds criminals and people ( as we determined ) with loose morals attractive. Samara kills who she thinks is a criminal. 

One has to be a person not a machine, world is not black and white. Samara is a machine, and that is why she is worse.

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

D.Kain wrote...
And still Morinth does a lot more useful for the galaxy, by helping in a very serious mission. And still Morinth is no worse then the other bunch of the Normandy. 

You make it too easy for people debunk your reasoning. 

Wel just feel free as always. 

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

People may or may not make happy faces when they orgasm but at least they don't drop dead afterwords.

That is different and that was not an intended outcome...

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

The bold statement, seriously flawed. If the fact that Morinth is helping Shepard on his/her mission is the criteria for you to judge her usefulness than she isn't more useful than anybody else.

She is more useful than a lot of other squadmembers. She has unique abileties, better than Samara. But what I was actually reffering to was that her usefulness overweights her crime. 

Modifié par D.Kain, 21 janvier 2012 - 12:40 .

[Goneaviking]

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Samara kills criminals. Morinth kills people who are not criminals (and presumably criminals as well if she finds them attractive enough).

I can see why you'd think Samara is worse. She doesn't kill ****s.

The other characters on the Normandy aren't part of the OPs discussion so I won't comment on them.

Morinth finds criminals and people ( as we determined ) with loose morals attractive. Samara kills who she thinks is a criminal. 

One has to be a person not a machine, world is not black and white. Samara is a machine, and that is why she is worse.

We have determined no such thing. You have implied low moral standards of one victim, but have presented no proof beyond your own biases.

Even if you were able to demonstrate that Nef was a woman of low morals her death is still much worse than the death of a mercenary, a child sacrificing cultist or a police officer attempting to restrain her from what are in asari culture (and apparently on Ilium) her legal duties.

Nef was a civilian, and she was murdered because Morinth likes to kill people. Samara kills people because they're criminals. Evidence has been presented within this thread that Samara has a more nuanced view of the world and the code she follows than the binary perspective you ascribe to her; that you haven't responded to it speaks volumes.

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

We have determined no such thing. You have implied low moral standards of one victim, but have presented no proof beyond your own biases.

Even if you were able to demonstrate that Nef was a woman of low morals her death is still much worse than the death of a mercenary, a child sacrificing cultist or a police officer attempting to restrain her from what are in asari culture (and apparently on Ilium) her legal duties.

Nef was a civilian, and she was murdered because Morinth likes to kill people. Samara kills people because they're criminals. Evidence has been presented within this thread that Samara has a more nuanced view of the world and the code she follows than the binary perspective you ascribe to her; that you haven't responded to it speaks volumes.

And we know nothing more about any other "victims".

I do not care for asari laws, as I said each situation is not black and white. A person that sees everything as black and white is a person with clouded judgement and should not be allowed to act lest even kill on the principle.

We do not know if Morinth kills people because she likes to kill people or not. Speculation. Samara kills those that SHE thinks are criminals. Like for example she would kill Morinth if she met her outside seclusion even if Morinth lived a celibate life. Samara may SEE what she is doing, but that doesn't change what she is doing. She doesn't want to do some things but she still does them according to the code. I do not need her philosophy, I see her actions.

[Spoiledrotten]

Goneaviking wrote...

Samara kills criminals. Morinth kills people who are not criminals (and presumably criminals as well if she finds them attractive enough).

I can see why you'd think Samara is worse. She doesn't kill ****s.

The other characters on the Normandy aren't part of the OPs discussion so I won't comment on them.

Samara kills whomever her damned code demands dead. Sometimes its hard criminals, sometimes small time swindlers, sometimes specters, sometimes villagers who are trying to protect their diety and sometimes cops who are just trying to do their job and follow orders.

Personally, I saved Samara, but when it comes down to it, the "which is worse" debate is much tougher than it looks.

[Welsh Inferno]

Saving Morinth is probably the single most stupid thing choice in the games. Everyones already explained why. So good luck with that.

[RPGamer13]

I killed Samara because she was a goody goody. Plus, the lure of a being able to melt your mind through intimacy is hard to resist. Then Morinth goes on to saying that perhaps Shepard might be able to survive, but that it was too early.

I'm just holding out hope they had plans for that.

[D.Kain]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Saving Morinth is probably the single most stupid thing choice in the games. Everyones already explained why. So good luck with that.

Ok atleast 8 people in this thread are positive on reqruiting Morinth. A whole bunch of choice neutral party, or those that want to kill both. And you are saying that EVERYONE explained that this is a stupid choice? 

Though if it was even only me alone - the OPINION of majority is not the criteria for truth. 

[Hyrist]

I killed Mornith because she killed, repeatedly, for pleasure. Sexual, pleasure. Kinda creepy, and vary dangerous.

I've already got one Psychopath who plays the "I was persecuted so I killed to survive" card, and that's Jack, and at least she doesn't pass herself off as some innocent.

Cold she may be, but Samara by contrast is a known quantity. She doesn't hide the possibility of being enemies, and there's no point trading her in for something less predictable.

OP and their ilk are just mad cause they can't boink Samara, so they decide to be a digital tough guy and trade her off for the sexually dangerous serial killer.

[D.Kain]

Hyrist wrote...

OP and their ilk are just mad cause they can't boink Samara, so they decide to be a digital tough guy and trade her off for the sexually dangerous serial killer.

Ok, it was a legit opinion up until this point. Boink Samara?  No. 

[Kmead15]

D.Kain wrote...

I wrote a few things about nightclubs in my posts above. Why did she go to a nightclub on Omega? How did she get into VIP? How did she attract Morinth? 

There are reasons a shy, lonely girl might go a nightclub she doesn't feel safe at. Nearly all of them are hopelessly foolish, but that's not sufficient reason to murder someone. Getting into VIP seems to be a matter of knowing the password, which she could have gotten from someone she knew , a quick search on google, sleeping with a bouncer, or any other number of reasons.

I'm not sure why you think attracting Morinth would be that difficult. Samara had a pretty good handle on what her daughter looked for in a partner, and she fit the description. Catching her eye the first time wouldn't be that difficult. She was dancing at the time, and even Shepard's dancing helps attract Morinth. My guess is she had a working set of legs and her clothes made her look bangable.

[Abraham_uk]

First and foremost I agree with the general sentiment of this thread. Killing Samara and choosing Morinth is a bad idea. However this thread is far too onesided. So lo and behold I wish to play devil's advocate here.

The argument for Morinth:

The main reason is DOMINATE. If you wish to chose this power in battle, well 2 dominates is better than one. It gives you a tactical advantage in battle and can make many encounters trival even at the highest difficulties (so long as your team can quickly remove all protections).

Thus concludes my devil's advocate piece. Sorry I'm trying to think of reasons to choose Morinth, but I just loathe that character! She is a horrible nasty piece of work who chooses to do evil simply for fun. There are people who have turned to psychotic deeds due to mental illness, genetic abnormalities and troubled experiences. Morinth is psychotic because that is simply the way she is.

She is dangerous. Sorry guys I gave up on devils advocate because Bioware chose to write a character that didn't any merit besides abilities in combat.

Samara is a tragic character who has dedicated her life towards riding the galaxy of evil doers. She is willing to kill others in order to achieve those aims. Morinth kills because she's a sexual predator. I simply have a problem with Morinth. Both of these individuals are people I don't want to meet in real life, but Morinth goes the extra mile.

Morinth is too unpalatable as a being. Seeing her mascarade as Samara, and knowing that the many victims of Morinth (one of whom you get to meet) had not recieved the justice they deserved was just appaling. Nope sorry, I just can't do this. Thanks for the Dominate bonus ability but now can I throw you and your twisted sexuality out of the airlock.

John Shepard: Samara. I have a little suprise for you.
Morinth: What's the surprise Shepard? (in a pathetic attempt at a sultry voice)
John Shepard: Press this button and I'll show you heaven.
Morinth: I'd love to. (presses button and ends up flying out of the airlock and into the void of space) Weeeeeeeeeeee!

[SinnSly]

I don't see how Morinth being younger makes her hotter....
That just sounds pervy and sick to me o-o'

Modifié par SinnSly, 21 janvier 2012 - 07:45 .

[FoxHound109]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Morinth is easier to control than Samara is. Her loyalty won't wear-off as soon as the mission is done.

Samara had been hunting Morinth for hundreds of years and only during the mission was she able to catch her (if you chose Samara). I would hardly say that "Samara is easier to control." Morinth is impossible to control, in fact, and her loyalty could just as easily wear off. There is a possibility of engaging in mind melding with Morinth, which can kill Shepard: her loyalty runs away the moment she's given the chance to do this. Morinth likes power, and Shepard is powerful and can protect her, but that's not enough to stop her. If it came down to it, Morinth would kill Shepard.

Samara would too, but the thing about Samara is that she follows a code. As long as she swears fealty to you in one way or another, Samara will never go against you. She specifically tells you that she does not want to choose between you and the code. If you can get that loyalty from her again, it's pretty much guaranteed.

Modifié par FoxHound109, 21 janvier 2012 - 07:57 .

[FoxHound109]

D.Kain wrote...

We do not know if Morinth kills people because she likes to kill people or not. Speculation.

More of an educated guess, really. Samara tells you that Morinth's condition is not only dangerous, but it can become addicting. Morinth has been killing victims for ages by the time you meet her, and her sole purpose seems to be to dominate, control, and kill. You can see this when she tries to convince Shepard to tell her that he/she will do anything for her right before Samara enters the room. There's no solid proof that Morinth enjoys killing, but the narrative of the game is telling you she does, her past actions support this idea, and her actions during Samara's side mission do as well. It's a pretty safe bet.

Samara kills those that SHE thinks are criminals.

No she doesn't. Samara has a very specific code. If people break it, they're fair game. Samara even goes out of her way to tell Shepard that she does not like to find out information about her targets because she wants no personal feelings involved in her duties. It has nothing to do with what Samara thinks and everything to do with the code she follows. Whether the code is right or wrong is a whole different matter.

Modifié par FoxHound109, 21 janvier 2012 - 08:04 .

[Labrev]

Daeel wrote...

Shub-Niggurath64 wrote...

How is Morinth hotter? They look exactly the same. That's why Morinth can pose as Samara on your crew.

She is younger, ergo = hotter.

Spoken like a man who's never....


ah, nevermind.