493 réponses à ce sujet

[khordlambert]

dreman9999 wrote...

nelly21 wrote...

Daeel wrote...

I think we are perverting the meaning of psychopath.

Simply seeking freedom is not psychopathic.

Actually, Morinth is the very definition of a psychopath. She lacks emotion, remorse for her actions and is a liar.She may claim to "seek freedom" but that isn't what drives her. She is addicticted to empowerment she receives from killing her mates and continues in this vein to satisfy said addiction.

So yeah, she is a poster child for psychopathy.

Looking at it from a tactical perspective, it would be idiotic to trust a wild card like Morinth over a skilled and far more stable Samara. But this is a game. So do whatever you want dude. Let us know what changes in ME 3. 

More like she just addicted to the sex and takes in all the death and destution as an adrinaline junkie because that's all she has left.

Or she could've...you know. Escaped and just NOT had sex. They'd never find her then without a body trail she keeps leaving behind and could then go on and do almost anything she wanted to do that wasn't sex related.

Also, yes she IS a psychopath. She KNOWS she kills people with the mind meld thing and yet she just keeps doing it. That's at the least unrelenting sociopathy.

[D.Kain]

khordlambert wrote...

Or she could've...you know. Escaped and just NOT had sex. They'd never find her then without a body trail she keeps leaving behind and could then go on and do almost anything she wanted to do that wasn't sex related.

Also, yes she IS a psychopath. She KNOWS she kills people with the mind meld thing and yet she just keeps doing it. That's at the least unrelenting sociopathy.

No she couldn't have escaped without having sex. 

Shepard also knows that he is killing people with his pistol, doesn't mean that Shepard is a psychopath. Also sociopaths don't tend to be grateful and helping towards someone.

[ncknck]

khordlambert wrote...

Why am I not at all surprised to see Cerberus' regular cheerleaders here are fans of recruiting Morinth? Most of you lot just refuse to push anything but the red icons no matter the context don't you?

Well see, actually i believe the renegade/paragon choices are wrong is this case. Saving Morinth is a paragon choice. Showing compassion and mercy is the very definition of paragon action, no matter what she has done. In fact the whole situation is just a canonical damsel-in-distress. With Morinth being the Viconia and Samara being the angry mob, or just the evil.  Which has to be destroyed by every selfrespecting Paragon player and give Morinth a chance for Atonement. 

ZehnWaters wrote...

You're assuming she is at constant variance with her Code.  From what we can tell she's not.  She will not kill us at any second, she's explicitely stated she'll wait until after the mission.  Assuming, of course, you're a douche-bag.  In which case, maybe you deserve it.

well, she should be, no matter what stories she tells. No psycho will admit she/he is a psycho. Unlike Morinth who downright says, that yes, she is bad, and lets move on. Its an honest connection which can be trusted. Samara is all lies.

In fact, her willingness to wait, should already be enough to dump her on the next planet immediately. This Code is pretty vague. If it allowes "waiting" then there must be a situation where it does not - kill. And if the Code doesnt allow "waiting", well then she already violated it, and can kill you whenever she wants.  Either way there is nothing preventing her to side with the Reapers in a critical moment, because the Code says so (for the greater good).

this is assuming, the Asari somehow manage to obey the rules. Because for humans all the "codes"  do, is to give an indulgence to kill and rob on-sight. Just look at human history. Hell, look today on radical Muslims movements and their Coran.

Modifié par ncknck, 12 février 2012 - 08:21 .

[ncknck]

khordlambert wrote...

Or she could've...you know. Escaped and just NOT had sex. They'd never find her then without a body trail she keeps leaving behind and could then go on and do almost anything she wanted to do that wasn't sex related.

Also, yes she IS a psychopath. She KNOWS she kills people with the mind meld thing and yet she just keeps doing it. That's at the least unrelenting sociopathy.

By that logic every living being is a psycho. We eat other living beings, which kills them. And continue to just keep doing it. Sorry. Morinth does not directly kill people, she is not a serial killer. It is not her fault they are dying in the process and there is no choice for them regardless of her knowing. In fact, its Samara's fault. She kept getting children even after she knew she had faulty genetics. This mess wouldnt happen if it were Samara who would choose to NOT have sex. hehe.

[khordlambert]

ncknck wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

Or she could've...you know. Escaped and just NOT had sex. They'd never find her then without a body trail she keeps leaving behind and could then go on and do almost anything she wanted to do that wasn't sex related.

Also, yes she IS a psychopath. She KNOWS she kills people with the mind meld thing and yet she just keeps doing it. That's at the least unrelenting sociopathy.

By that logic every living being is a psycho. We eat other living beings, which kills them. And continue to just keep doing it. Sorry. Morinth does not directly kill people, she is not a serial killer. It is not her fault they are dying in the process and there is no choice for them regardless of her knowing. In fact, its Samara's fault. She kept getting children even after she knew she had faulty genetics. This mess wouldnt happen if it were Samara who would choose to NOT have sex. hehe.

never thought I'd get a chance to say this but, you are not even wrong. Actually, scratch that. You couldn't BE more wrong if you were claiming the moon was made of cheese and had a rabbit living on it making candy.

We eat other living things for a little something called survival. Morrinth does not need to mind meld for survival, and would probably be better served by stopping alltogether so no one can tell the difference between her and any other Asari. She does what she does out of feeding her high and power. Nothing else.

And she DOES directly kill people. She is CONSTANTLY looking for her next hump buddy to do something that she knows will kill them! How is it NOT her fault if SHE KEEPS DOING IT DESPITE KNOWING WHAT IT DOES TO PEOPLE!? "Dur, the last thousand people I mind humped died, perhaps this one will, og darn. Send in number 1,001" And she IS a serial killer. She picks out specific people based on what appeals to her, seduces them, and then kills them. That is what Serial Killers DO!

And you Blame Samara? Do you have ANY idea how long childhood lasts with a species like the Asari? Liara was considered young at just 150 years. Childhood lasts for a great long while for Asari and the Yakshi development wouldn't show up till they become of age and shows no sign of showing up in a family line till then. That would leave a good number of deceads to have more kids until the condition was made apparent. In other words, no, she did NOT "Keep having kids despite knowing" she had NO FREAKING CLUE there was anything wrong until her kids started having issues!

oh what the crap am I doing? You Morinth supporters are worse than the Cerberus Cheerleaders. At least they don't have the sheer gall to attempt blaming the freaking victim.

Morrinth has made her choices. She chose to run, she chose to kill despite the fact that not doing so would make her MUCH harder to find, she has killed people guilty of NOTHING, and has given no sign that she ever intends to stop. To quote from another sci-fi series, the only mercy she deserves at this point is the Emperor's Mercy. Too bad Samara keeps beating me to it.

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

Why not brainwash Samara and **** them both?

Modifié par favoritehookeronthecitadel, 13 février 2012 - 06:47 .

[khordlambert]

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

Why not brainwash Samara and **** them both?

Time, resources, and a lack of both. Ethics falls in there too, but I don't think that needed to be said. Yet I said it anyway. Huh.

Not to mention that whole Morinth kills those she mates with thing. Kind of a turn off.

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

Finger job?

[D.Kain]

khordlambert wrote...

Morrinth does not need to mind meld for survival...

Yes she does.

[ncknck]

khordlambert
Well you just named a couple of reasons legitimizing killing for food. But realize, Morinth reasons are just as convincing for her, and Samara's willingness to violate the law for her Code is legit for her. Everyone tends to justify whatever he is doing as "right" to keep inner integrity. Which is why Earth is still full of crimes. You just gave yourself an indulgence to freely kill. "because humans need to eat". Do you realize how laughable this reason sounds to anyone not involved in this process, especially it falls on deaf years of those killed! Noone cares that humans want to eat. Its not anyones but human's problem. And Murder is murder. Especially Samara wouldnt care, since she is so black and white, which is a common problem with all the crazy zealots like her. Killed a chicken, die. Simple Code.

Btw all which is needed to do to stop murdering is to switch to synthetic proteins and vitamins. Done. Here, all the justifying gone. But im sure you will come with plenty other reasons, which is because you need to create them, to justify the habit of murdering. Its called hypocrisy, unwillingly in this case but still. Morinth on the other hand, is honest. Which is good because ->


Shepard is in the least interested in criminal records. He already has Jack. He is interested in reliability, and Samara has just too many bugs in her head, to be left alive, if forced to choose. Choosing Samara is a tactical mistake, which could cost humans the Earth.


Btw I dont quite remember the exact details about Samara's wild youth, but Liara is not 150, she is 106. IIRC Samara wanted to have children and hoped the next one will not have the defect.

Modifié par ncknck, 13 février 2012 - 08:26 .

[Goneaviking]

D.Kain wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

Morrinth does not need to mind meld for survival...

Yes she does.

You're saying she'd die without mind-murdering her lovers?

[ObserverStatus]

I found this little thought experiment on an older thread, and it has a few good reasons to pick Morinth.

Dean_the_Young wrote...


MShep: *Walks in room* what is this?
Samara: Shepard, this in an intervention, you're actions recently have been criminal in nature and it pains us to see you this way.
Shep:Us? (Looks around, only sees Joker.)
Joker: (waves) I'm just here to watch this go down.
Shep: Us, huh? Do you have a tumor I need to know about, Samara?
(Samara looks briefly annoyed)
Samara: No, I do not. Regardless, your recent immorality is a cause of concern for us all and-
Shep: Hah!
Samara: -and I believe it best to stage this intervention for the betterment of yourself.
Shep: Well, Samara, that's quite considerate of you, and while I'm touched that you think yourself fit to fix me... no.
Samara: I see. That is a shame.
Shep: Hey, don't get me wrong. I've always wanted an intervention! Rounds off those life experiances of leading a ship filled with people with deadlier histories than myself, who literally wouldn't give a damn if I shot some random person in the street if I said it was important. But I've had my irony quota for the week already, and Chakwas has medical concerns, so I'll have to pass on being lectured about morality by an alien vigilantee quasi-cultist.
Samara: The Justicars are not a cult.
Shep: Sure you are. You might be an acceptable cult in Asari culture, but that's pretty much what you are to anyone with perspective.
Samara: You are gravely mistaken.
Shep: Am I? Samara, take Joker off the floor with your biotics and prepare to slam him.
Samara: !
Joker: Shepard, hey man, I think I'll just go and-
Shep: Samara. By your oath of subsummission, I order you to use your biotics to pick Joker and prepare to reduce him to a pile of slimy, brittle bits.
Samara: ...
(Samara envelops Joker in a biotic aura, and lifts him off the ground.)
Joker: Shepard, if this is about getting you killed on the Normandy I really didn't mean to and I-
Shepard: Shut up, Joker. Now, Samara, when I count to three, you will slam Joker into the ground and kill him. Do you understand?
Samara: (silent)
Shepard: (changing his tone of voice for the first time)
Shepard: Do you understand me, Justicar?
Samara: I hear you, Shepard, and I will obey as my Code compells me.
Shepard: Then obey this: turn towards that window, look at that reflection, and see someone who was prepared to murder someone else simply because they were told to.
Samara: I would only be following your orders as my code compells me.
Shepard: Yeah, we've heard that excuse before: at Nuremberg. We killed those immoral bastards too for following orders and their laws. Now put Joker down, gently.
(Samara does)
Shepard: You may think yourself moral and justified, Samara, but I don't. I personally find you an abhorrent aspect of Asari culture that the Asari have romanticized in ignorance. But I don't care: if the Asari want to respect people like you, all the worse for them. The Asari need more flaws. But I do not. The people on my ship do not. Given how you'd be obliged to take on any and all of us on sight and knowledge had we met in other circumstances, I've already received more than once voice of concern about your possible conduct. You do not like me? Fine. I promise to go to my room later and cry and sob and miserate about how much that means to me. But you are not my moral compass. You are my tool for stopping a genocidal alien threat to humanity. Is this clear?
Samara: Perfectly. If that is all, I request permission to leave now.
Shepard: Granted. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
(Samara leaves, but halfway through the door Shepard calls out.)
Shepard: Samara?
(She halts.)
Samara: Yes, Shepard?
Shepard: Next time you're worried about my morals, get someone I might actually respect to bring it to my notice. Try Jacob: he's got a working moral compass and won't do whatever I say. I'd take anything coming from him far more seriously than, say, a mother who abandoned the rest of her children and dedicated the rest of her life to the culturally acceptable murder of her child. Just saying.
(Samara leaves, and once the door has closed Joker just whistles.)
Joker: Well, Commander, I can't say I was expecting that. Actually thought you were going to kill me for a moment there.
Shepard: Consider that your punishment for being stupid, then. When have I ever killed someone just for the hell of it?
Joker: Well, there was that one Asari chick on Feros-
Shepard: Joker.
Joker: Right, right! Poked around too much in your head, traveled places best left forgotten, etc. etc. Sorry. If that's all, I think I need to go change my pants.
Shepard: Do it later. I want us heading to Omega by the time you could get to the cockpit.
(EDI appears)
EDI: Shepard, Mr. Morreau is not necessary for starting our navigation towards Omega. I can handle it at this moment while Mr. Morreau sanitizes himself.
Shepard: Belay that, EDI. Do as I say. (Looks at Joker.) This is my payback for getting me killed. Once you sit down and punch in the coordinates, you can go change.
Joker: ...crap.
Shepard: (Looking towards the floor.) Apparently. I'll get Gardner.

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

Morrinth does not need to mind meld for survival...

Yes she does.

You're saying she'd die without mind-murdering her lovers?

Yes. Not biologically of course.

[silver_sparrow]

Morinth can actually kill you if you choose the wrong dialogue when talking to her after the suicide mission if given the chance while Samara would stay loyal. Morinth is obviously the greater threat.

[Goneaviking]

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

Morrinth does not need to mind meld for survival...

Yes she does.

You're saying she'd die without mind-murdering her lovers?

Yes. Not biologically of course.

If her biology doesn't require her to do it then arguments that she doesn't do it by choice seem pretty hollow.

[ncknck]

jreezy wrote...

ncknck wrote...

Well see, actually i believe the renegade/paragon choices are wrong is this case. Saving Morinth is a paragon choice. 

Saving a murderer is a paragon choice? Riiight. Forgive me if I don't take you serious.

Not quite, showing mercy is a paragon choice. Cant go more paragon than that. Especially if we only heard Samara-the-zealot's side, right?

And again, Morinth is not a murderer. She does not have a wish to kill or intentionally harm people. Given a choice she would not kill them. = Not a killer. She is however very selfish which is why people die. She simply doesnt care what happens to them. (="evil") They are little more than cattle to her. I dont particularly care about cattle either, and neither do you.

This is not a first time an evil person is saved in Bioware's games. Seeing from the other thread that you do not have experiences with Bioware's games, google Baldurs Gate 2. You are rescuing an evil(check) dark(check) elf (check), who has unresolvable conflicts with group paladins(check). She converts to Neutral in the Addon.

Modifié par ncknck, 13 février 2012 - 02:30 .

[Xilizhra]

Were it only showing mercy, maybe. However, it does involve killing Samara.

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

If her biology doesn't require her to do it then arguments that she doesn't do it by choice seem pretty hollow.

No, she does it by choice. The choice is to live free, and to survive living free she has to kill. One does not simply survive in the galaxy alone without advanced biotic powers and dominate, when being hunted, or having to deal with dark people, since can't move around with oficial means, specially at 40+ years old ( about 16 year old girl, by human standarts. )

[khordlambert]

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

If her biology doesn't require her to do it then arguments that she doesn't do it by choice seem pretty hollow.

No, she does it by choice. The choice is to live free, and to survive living free she has to kill. One does not simply survive in the galaxy alone without advanced biotic powers and dominate, when being hunted, or having to deal with dark people, since can't move around with oficial means, specially at 40+ years old ( about 16 year old girl, by human standarts. )

Or she could, I dunno. Stop killing long enough to let her trail go cold, head for the more civilized parts of the galaxy and live free with no real way to tell she's an Space Succubus. All she'd have to do is give it up long enough to do that.

Heck, she could, y'know. Go after the criminal element of the galaxy! Do like Dexter and punish those who bring harm to the innocent. Instead of shy artists whose only crime was trying to develop a social life!

But no. Morinth chooses to serve one thing. Herself.

[D.Kain]

khordlambert wrote...

Or she could, I dunno. Stop killing long enough to let her trail go cold, head for the more civilized parts of the galaxy and live free with no real way to tell she's an Space Succubus. All she'd have to do is give it up long enough to do that.

Heck, she could, y'know. Go after the criminal element of the galaxy! Do like Dexter and punish those who bring harm to the innocent. Instead of shy artists whose only crime was trying to develop a social life!

But no. Morinth chooses to serve one thing. Herself.

Ok first, you can't live in civilized parts without manipulating people, when you are nobody, no birth certificate, no documents or money, or anything. You go burn all your documents, and see how you can get a job and a flat somewhere in a civilized place, first cop that is going to just check who you are is going to get you into the office, and Justicars will know, they are looking for you. 

Second, why should Morinth fight criminals? They are probably the ones that help her out in the galaxy, smuglers that let her travel, mercs that she can works out deals with, criminal organizations, that she could probably have some work done for in those years, to get some money. She has grudges against the society that turned away from her, she has no reasons to help out said society. 

I respect her choice. People are so smart, when they sit in their chairs at home, I would like to see how they would survive all alone in a galaxy, when being hunted, at age 16.

Oh and Nef is border line plothole. 

Modifié par D.Kain, 13 février 2012 - 05:18 .

[D.Kain]

Xilizhra wrote...

Were it only showing mercy, maybe. However, it does involve killing Samara.

Killing Samara is getting rid of evil.

[ObserverStatus]

jreezy wrote...

ncknck wrote...
Well see, actually i believe the renegade/paragon choices are wrong is this case. Saving Morinth is a paragon choice. 

Saving a murderer is a paragon choice? Riiight. Forgive me if I don't take you serious.

Samara is a murderer too.

[silver_sparrow]

bobobo878 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

ncknck wrote...
Well see, actually i believe the renegade/paragon choices are wrong is this case. Saving Morinth is a paragon choice. 

Saving a murderer is a paragon choice? Riiight. Forgive me if I don't take you serious.

Samara is a murderer too.

Yes, but she doesn't purposely kill the innocent. Killing is like a drug for Morinth. She would kill innocent people and get high off of the thrill, or melding, or what ever she gets out of it.

[ObserverStatus]

silver_sparrow wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

ncknck wrote...
Well see, actually i believe the renegade/paragon choices are wrong is this case. Saving Morinth is a paragon choice. 

Saving a murderer is a paragon choice? Riiight. Forgive me if I don't take you serious.

Samara is a murderer too.

Yes, but she doesn't purposely kill the innocent. Killing is like a drug for Morinth. She would kill innocent people and get high off of the thrill, or melding, or what ever she gets out of it.

At least Morinth is honest with herself about what she does, Samara kills innocent people too.  Morinth may not have a religious code to justify killing Nef, but that does not make this act any more monsterous than the murders Samara commits.  If Shepard hadn't come to her rescue, Samara would have murdered that cop on Illium just for doing her job.  And what about Nihlus?  Samara said she saw him kill an unarmed civilian, but she didn't bother to stop and ask him why she killed that person. From what we know about Nihilus, he could have had a very good reason for killing that person.  The person Nihlus killed could have been a spy, who would have put people in danger witht he information he would have sent if Nihlus had killed him later.  Or, he could have been a terrorist, bearing a concealed weapon of mass destruction that Samara did not see.  But Samara herself said that she did not know why Nihlus killed him.  She says that in this kind of situation she does not care to know.  For all she knew, Nihlus could have just saved more lives than she ever will, but that doesn't matter to her because allowing her code to think for her saves her from having to make hard choices.

Modifié par bobobo878, 14 février 2012 - 12:01 .