493 réponses à ce sujet

[silver_sparrow]

@bo. I personally don't like either of them but Samara is the lesser evil. She's probably saved more lives then killed and Justicars are a lot more respected then ardak-yakshi. Sure their code is strict and inefficiant but she never manipulated an entire village to worship her and offer sacrifices . Samara is not sadistic .

[khordlambert]

I'd also like to add that I would like to see a full version of the Justicar code. I'd like to know what all it pertains.

As it stands though, from what I've seen of it, the code seems to be based more on Jedi or Paladin virtues than anything.

[Goneaviking]

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

If her biology doesn't require her to do it then arguments that she doesn't do it by choice seem pretty hollow.

No, she does it by choice. The choice is to live free, and to survive living free she has to kill. One does not simply survive in the galaxy alone without advanced biotic powers and dominate, when being hunted, or having to deal with dark people, since can't move around with oficial means, specially at 40+ years old ( about 16 year old girl, by human standarts. )

Every clue that drives Samara on comes from the fact that Morinth has been murdering people in that very specific way that only an AY can do. If she didn't kill Nef then Aria wouldn't even know there was one on Omega and certainly wouldn't have been able to point her to the grieving mother of her latest victim and the diary pointing to her current hunting ground.

Likewise with the Eclipse sisters on Ilium who smuggled her to Omega. If they hadn't known what she was then Morinth would have been just another Asari on the run for whatever reason, given their proclivity to sign up as mercenaries during their maiden stage Morinth certainly wouldn't stand out too much for having the law or dangerous enemies looking for her.

The cult she set up where she had them handing their children over to their deaths? I'm sure such a religious group starts all kinds of rumours that interested parties would look into at some point, and instead of being a massive liability for the young ardat-yakshi on the run this neon sign is essential to her securing her freedom?

She would have done better by paying some shady character to set her up with some false identity papers from some dead girl and moving off-planet and getting qualifications and a job. With millions upon millions of Asari meandering around for their thousand year lifecycle Samara would have had no chance of actually finding her based on evidence and rumours; instead Morinth keeps sending up signs saying things like "Ardat-yakshi is operating on Omega 4, for details talk to Nef's mum."

Whatever needs may have justified her murders once upon a time, they ceased to exist a long, long time ago.

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

Every clue that drives Samara on comes from the fact that Morinth has been murdering people in that very specific way that only an AY can do. If she didn't kill Nef then Aria wouldn't even know there was one on Omega and certainly wouldn't have been able to point her to the grieving mother of her latest victim and the diary pointing to her current hunting ground.

Likewise with the Eclipse sisters on Ilium who smuggled her to Omega. If they hadn't known what she was then Morinth would have been just another Asari on the run for whatever reason, given their proclivity to sign up as mercenaries during their maiden stage Morinth certainly wouldn't stand out too much for having the law or dangerous enemies looking for her.

The cult she set up where she had them handing their children over to their deaths? I'm sure such a religious group starts all kinds of rumours that interested parties would look into at some point, and instead of being a massive liability for the young ardat-yakshi on the run this neon sign is essential to her securing her freedom?

She would have done better by paying some shady character to set her up with some false identity papers from some dead girl and moving off-planet and getting qualifications and a job. With millions upon millions of Asari meandering around for their thousand year lifecycle Samara would have had no chance of actually finding her based on evidence and rumours; instead Morinth keeps sending up signs saying things like "Ardat-yakshi is operating on Omega 4, for details talk to Nef's mum."

Whatever needs may have justified her murders once upon a time, they ceased to exist a long, long time ago.

That is the life Morinth is used to now, and as I said I believe she is gathering power for a reason. I still think that Samara and the ones that wanted to put Morinth in seclusion are responsible for all the crap that has been happening. If they let Morinth to live free and THEN she killed, then I wouldn't even second guess and would kill her, but they decided to put her in seclusion or to kill her before that, and in doing so put me on the Morinth side. 

I hate Samara to the core, everything she is, is disgusting to me, the concept of justicar and her code, it drives me up the wall 100x more than all the serial killers in the world. 

I showed Morinth that she is not alone, I have eliminated the threat to her life, now it is her choice, to live a normal and to show respect for other peoples lives like the respect that has been shown for her life, free from the Justicar and asari society burden or to be dealt with. 

If Morinth ( as I think ) is going to try and bust her sisters out of seclusion I will help her, and they will be given the same choice. 

Bottom line - all Normandy is filled with criminals, Morinth is more useful than Samara and feels better for me to be around than Samara. Morinth does a lot more good fightning the reapers than all evil she has ever done.

Modifié par D.Kain, 14 février 2012 - 03:47 .

[dbozbrown]

I saw one of those troll spoiler posts randomly posted around that I wish I could un-see. Theres so much I wanna say in this post :-( I personally cant wait to interact with Morinth in ME3, She is a much better character imo than Samara. The only issue I have with her is that shes under-developed. Lets hope we get a better glimpse at her character this time!

[Goneaviking]

D.Kain wrote...

That is the life Morinth is used to now, and as I said I believe she is gathering power for a reason.

Which I ignore because you've never presented any basis for the theory, which makes it sound like fanfiction rather than speculation.

If it makes the game more satisfying for you then great, but presenting it as an honest theory without backing it up is irritating.

[ObserverStatus]

jreezy wrote...
I knew I should've specified. Morinth's reasons for murdering people don't sit well with me. It's selfish for the most part.

There's no question that Morinth is a worse person, but that doesn't make her less of a threat to the galaxy.  When Samara said that she didn't need to know why she was helping you eradicate the collectors, it unearthed a deeply disturbing aspect of her character, which may explain her conflict with Nihlus.  For all she knew, Nihlus could have had a perfectly reasonable reason for killing the person she saw him kill, and was on a mission to save more people than Morinth will ever kill, but she didn't care.  In my opinion, this is because after she discovered that her daughters were ardat-yakshi she ceased to trust in her own judgement, and being too afraid to make her own choices anymore, she lets her code think for her.  Morinth is a serial killer who targets hipsters on Omega, but Samara is a trigger happy zealot meddling in galactic security affairs that she simply does not care to understand.  Morinth may be an evil person, and there is no justification for what she did to Nef and so many others, but she at least tries to keep a low profile, and is far less of a threat to galactic stability.

Modifié par bobobo878, 14 février 2012 - 04:37 .

[thatguy212]

bobobo878 wrote...

jreezy wrote...
I knew I should've specified. Morinth's reasons for murdering people don't sit well with me. It's selfish for the most part.

There's no question that Morinth is a worse person, but that doesn't make her less of a threat to the galaxy.  When Samara said that she didn't need to know why she was helping you eradicate the collectors, it unearthed a deeply disturbing aspect of her character, which may explain her conflict with Nihlus.  For all she knew, Nihlus could have had a perfectly reasonable reason for killing the person she saw him kill, and was on a mission to save more people than Morinth will ever kill, but she didn't care.  In my opinion, this is because after she discovered that her daughters were ardat-yakshi she ceased to trust in her own judgement, and being too afraid to make her own choices anymore, she lets her code think for her.  Morinth is a serial killer who targets hipsters on Omega, but Samara is a trigger happy zealot meddling in galactic security affairs that she simply does not care to understand.  Morinth may be an evil person, and there is no justification for what she did to Nef and so many others, but she at least tries to keep a low profile, and is far less of a threat to galactic stability.

suddenly picking Morinth just feels like the right thing to do

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

That is the life Morinth is used to now, and as I said I believe she is gathering power for a reason.

Which I ignore because you've never presented any basis for the theory, which makes it sound like fanfiction rather than speculation.

If it makes the game more satisfying for you then great, but presenting it as an honest theory without backing it up is irritating.

That is an opinion that doesn't change my view point. 

Even if she is not. I still consider Samara to be a lot worse, I still want to give Morinth a chance, and I still think she is more useful.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

*sighs*

Serial killers are bad.

But cereal killers are even worse! I submit that Kai Leng is more evil than Morinth because Morinth might be an evil mindraping space succubus but at least she doesn't steal people's Krogan Krunch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Xilizhra]

D.Kain wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Were it only showing mercy, maybe. However, it does involve killing Samara.

Killing Samara is getting rid of evil.

The Justicar Order as a whole may be considered evil, and I suspect it is, but I'm uncertain how evil Samara is. Ultimately, it comes down to which one is more redeemable.

[GuardianAngel470]

Daeel wrote...

I played a renegade character and all through out the playthrough Samara is going on about as soon as the mission is over she "may" have to kill me. Why in all that is holy would I let an obvious enemy live? Especially when I can get her hotter, younger equally as strong Daughter. It just makes no sense to keep her alive.


Plus there are a lot of advantages to having a secret Ardat-Yakshi that is only loyal to me on my side. Tactics wise, Morinth is just superior. Samara is just too stringent in her morals, she can't be used when it comes to hard decisions.

Last thing I need is some justicar assassin chasing me all over the galaxy during a REAPER INVASION.

That is a perfectly legitimate reason for killing Samara and saving Morinth.

You didn't try and justify Morinth's actions (which any attentive gamer should know are quite sadistic) and you didn't try and rationalize away her proclivity for murder.

[D.Kain]

Xilizhra wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Were it only showing mercy, maybe. However, it does involve killing Samara.

Killing Samara is getting rid of evil.

The Justicar Order as a whole may be considered evil, and I suspect it is, but I'm uncertain how evil Samara is. Ultimately, it comes down to which one is more redeemable.

She is not evil but she IS! The thing is that the real Samara is only talk, when it comes to actions the real Samara dissapiars, and a cold machine enters the scene to kill and to judge without even thinking. And thus she IS her code, she is a machine. She feels bad about herself, and she feels good about being what she is at the same time. She is doing **** and realizes it, but continues to do it, because she thinks it is still right. She is messed up and sick, and unlike Morinth she CHOSE to become that evil, without any kind of threat to her. She can't be redeemed in my eyes. 

[Goneaviking]

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

That is the life Morinth is used to now, and as I said I believe she is gathering power for a reason.

Which I ignore because you've never presented any basis for the theory, which makes it sound like fanfiction rather than speculation.

If it makes the game more satisfying for you then great, but presenting it as an honest theory without backing it up is irritating.

That is an opinion that doesn't change my view point. 

Even if she is not. I still consider Samara to be a lot worse, I still want to give Morinth a chance, and I still think she is more useful.

I'm not attempting to change you viewpoint, just curious as to whether there actually is a reason you think that Morinth has a greater goal or if it's just something that makes the game more enjoyable for you.

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

I'm not attempting to change you viewpoint, just curious as to whether there actually is a reason you think that Morinth has a greater goal or if it's just something that makes the game more enjoyable for you.

There is a reason yes. 

[Xilizhra]

D.Kain wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Were it only showing mercy, maybe. However, it does involve killing Samara.

Killing Samara is getting rid of evil.

The Justicar Order as a whole may be considered evil, and I suspect it is, but I'm uncertain how evil Samara is. Ultimately, it comes down to which one is more redeemable.

She is not evil but she IS! The thing is that the real Samara is only talk, when it comes to actions the real Samara dissapiars, and a cold machine enters the scene to kill and to judge without even thinking. And thus she IS her code, she is a machine. She feels bad about herself, and she feels good about being what she is at the same time. She is doing **** and realizes it, but continues to do it, because she thinks it is still right. She is messed up and sick, and unlike Morinth she CHOSE to become that evil, without any kind of threat to her. She can't be redeemed in my eyes. 

Believing that anyone can't be redeemed, while supporting Morinth, is... bizarre, truth be told. I only hold out hope for her because I believe that anyone can be redeemed (unless, of course, mental illness forces the issue otherwise...)

[D.Kain]

Xilizhra wrote...

Believing that anyone can't be redeemed, while supporting Morinth, is... bizarre, truth be told. I only hold out hope for her because I believe that anyone can be redeemed (unless, of course, mental illness forces the issue otherwise...)

I guess she can be redeemed, but she seems to have very strong will and faith in what she does. Morinth doesn't really care that much, she just want's to live a life, and probably can get used to holding herself together, to not hurt others. Samara on the other hand doesn't have a life, she believes that she has to go around and mess up with other peoples. I mean anyone can be redeemed of course, it would be very nice if Samara stopped being a justicar and Morinth stopped killing people, but there is no such choice, and Samara, as I said is far greater evil in my eyes, and far more unnececery one.