493 réponses à ce sujet

[Goneaviking]

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Morinth doesn't simply seek freedom; She enjoys manipulating people and killing them when they feel safest. 

She tells Shepard this multiple times in her apartment.

Perhaps you missed the part where Morinth was talking about opponents, not pray. She talked about those that wanted to use her and those that wanted to kill her, and how that ended badly for them. She talked about Samara ( chess ), she talked about thugs that she encounters in the dark corners of the galaxy ( dueling ), and she talked about a rich suitor that wanted to have sex with her, and was hitting on her ( statue ).

"I love any game where your opponent can believe he is about to win ... just before you kill him."
No reference to Samara there. Just the same statement about letting people think they have the upper hand right before kill them.

"I was into duelling for awhile. I love the moment you see it in your opponent's eyes; he knows you're better than him and he's going to die."
Duelling is a sport, not self-defence. At best it's a means of avenging an insult, but it's never what you do when you encounter thugs in a dark alley. 

"A gift from a suitor. The statue's got more personality than he did. Still he impressed me enough that he finally got what he wanted. It didn't end the way he hoped."
There's no crime in wanting to have sex with someone; there is however a crime in having sex with someone while knowing that the act will kill them.


Over and over she talks about letting people think they're safe before killing them, she only starts in with the "woe is me, I is a victim" schtick when Samara comes into her room. Even there it's mixed in with a bunch of nonsense about being the future of the asari race.

[android654]

Goneaviking wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Morinth doesn't simply seek freedom; She enjoys manipulating people and killing them when they feel safest. 

She tells Shepard this multiple times in her apartment.

Perhaps you missed the part where Morinth was talking about opponents, not pray. She talked about those that wanted to use her and those that wanted to kill her, and how that ended badly for them. She talked about Samara ( chess ), she talked about thugs that she encounters in the dark corners of the galaxy ( dueling ), and she talked about a rich suitor that wanted to have sex with her, and was hitting on her ( statue ).

"I love any game where your opponent can believe he is about to win ... just before you kill him."
No reference to Samara there. Just the same statement about letting people think they have the upper hand right before kill them.

"I was into duelling for awhile. I love the moment you see it in your opponent's eyes; he knows you're better than him and he's going to die."
Duelling is a sport, not self-defence. At best it's a means of avenging an insult, but it's never what you do when you encounter thugs in a dark alley. 

"A gift from a suitor. The statue's got more personality than he did. Still he impressed me enough that he finally got what he wanted. It didn't end the way he hoped."
There's no crime in wanting to have sex with someone; there is however a crime in having sex with someone while knowing that the act will kill them.


Over and over she talks about letting people think they're safe before killing them, she only starts in with the "woe is me, I is a victim" schtick when Samara comes into her room. Even there it's mixed in with a bunch of nonsense about being the future of the asari race.

When you take into consideration that she was exiled as a child and add that with the daunting relization that she'd be isolated and alone for what would seem to us lik eternity, its easy to see how that could've been anyone... She's more victim than monster, Her mother and circumstance did more to create her than she did.

[Asenza]

knightnblu wrote...

Your argument makes no sense whatsoever. "I chose Morinth because I can't trust Samara." That's basically what your assertions boil down to. You say that you are worried because Samara says that she may have to kill you if you force her to do something incredibly dishonorable, so the question is what were you thinking of using her for that would meet that criteria?

Further, Morinth is a sociopath. That means that she is loyal to nobody, but herself and would stab you in the back in a heartbeat if she felt like it. Try romancing her and see if she doesn't. So I don't really have any idea what you are talking about.

Chances are you just like bad girls and the sociopath appealed to you and you went with her rather than the goody-two-shoes. Sure, you can lie to yourself if you like, but what's the point? "Best tactical choice," yeah right. I don't know about you, but when I make tactical choices I don't bring along a sociopath for the ride.

Oh, great post. Instead of just saying they want to be different than everyone else by making a ridiculously backwards decision (which is different, just not in the, oh, I'm a rebel way I suspect this conflict stems from) they instead distort and at other times fabricate what the source material shows as fact.

At her recruitment mission, when Samara says that Shepard's word is her code, the renegade option directly after that is something creepy like, So I can make you do anything? Just don't tell Samara to kill everyone in a kindergarten, problem solved. . It was a warning to Shepard, one that Shepard apparently heeded, because it's not like you CAN make her do anything extremely dishonorable in the game, anyway.

@ Android654,

Hey, Jack had a far worse history than Morinth. She was built from the ground up into a biotic weapon, conditioned not to show mercy. Jack didn't have any family, any siblings. No socialization, no friends, no real gauge of right vs wrong. All she had was a team of messed up scientists working round the clock to push her mental and physical limits for years.

And Jack didn't start killing people just 'cause.

Modifié par Asenza, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:59 .

[android654]

Asenza wrote...
@ Android654,

Hey, Jack had a far worse history than Morinth. She was built from the ground up into a biotic weapon, conditioned not to show mercy. Jack didn't have any family, any siblings. No socialization, no friends, no real gauge of right vs wrong. All she had was a team of messed up scientists working round the clock to push her mental and physical limits for years.

And Jack didn't start killing people just 'cause.

I agree. However, I like Jack because she recognizes what she's done but doesn't feel remorse for it because of what happened to her. That's why she did what she did, she realized something cruel about people and instilled that behavior in herself. How is that different from what Morinth did?

The only reason Jack is better is because I enjoy the character more, but the truth is Morinth is treating everyone the way her family and country/planet/society treated her Jack started out the same exact way.

[BatmanPWNS]

android654 wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Morinth doesn't simply seek freedom; She enjoys manipulating people and killing them when they feel safest. 

She tells Shepard this multiple times in her apartment.

Perhaps you missed the part where Morinth was talking about opponents, not pray. She talked about those that wanted to use her and those that wanted to kill her, and how that ended badly for them. She talked about Samara ( chess ), she talked about thugs that she encounters in the dark corners of the galaxy ( dueling ), and she talked about a rich suitor that wanted to have sex with her, and was hitting on her ( statue ).

"I love any game where your opponent can believe he is about to win ... just before you kill him."
No reference to Samara there. Just the same statement about letting people think they have the upper hand right before kill them.

"I was into duelling for awhile. I love the moment you see it in your opponent's eyes; he knows you're better than him and he's going to die."
Duelling is a sport, not self-defence. At best it's a means of avenging an insult, but it's never what you do when you encounter thugs in a dark alley. 

"A gift from a suitor. The statue's got more personality than he did. Still he impressed me enough that he finally got what he wanted. It didn't end the way he hoped."
There's no crime in wanting to have sex with someone; there is however a crime in having sex with someone while knowing that the act will kill them.


Over and over she talks about letting people think they're safe before killing them, she only starts in with the "woe is me, I is a victim" schtick when Samara comes into her room. Even there it's mixed in with a bunch of nonsense about being the future of the asari race.

When you take into consideration that she was exiled as a child and add that with the daunting relization that she'd be isolated and alone for what would seem to us lik eternity, its easy to see how that could've been anyone... She's more victim than monster, Her mother and circumstance did more to create her than she did.

I can understand trying to run away but she still killed many innocent people on the way and, for that, I choose to kill her.

Modifié par BatmanPWNS, 20 janvier 2012 - 04:21 .

[android654]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

android654 wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Morinth doesn't simply seek freedom; She enjoys manipulating people and killing them when they feel safest. 

She tells Shepard this multiple times in her apartment.

Perhaps you missed the part where Morinth was talking about opponents, not pray. She talked about those that wanted to use her and those that wanted to kill her, and how that ended badly for them. She talked about Samara ( chess ), she talked about thugs that she encounters in the dark corners of the galaxy ( dueling ), and she talked about a rich suitor that wanted to have sex with her, and was hitting on her ( statue ).

"I love any game where your opponent can believe he is about to win ... just before you kill him."
No reference to Samara there. Just the same statement about letting people think they have the upper hand right before kill them.

"I was into duelling for awhile. I love the moment you see it in your opponent's eyes; he knows you're better than him and he's going to die."
Duelling is a sport, not self-defence. At best it's a means of avenging an insult, but it's never what you do when you encounter thugs in a dark alley. 

"A gift from a suitor. The statue's got more personality than he did. Still he impressed me enough that he finally got what he wanted. It didn't end the way he hoped."
There's no crime in wanting to have sex with someone; there is however a crime in having sex with someone while knowing that the act will kill them.


Over and over she talks about letting people think they're safe before killing them, she only starts in with the "woe is me, I is a victim" schtick when Samara comes into her room. Even there it's mixed in with a bunch of nonsense about being the future of the asari race.

When you take into consideration that she was exiled as a child and add that with the daunting relization that she'd be isolated and alone for what would seem to us lik eternity, its easy to see how that could've been anyone... She's more victim than monster, Her mother and circumstance did more to create her than she did.

I can understand trying to run away but she still killed many innocent people on the way and, for that, I choose to kill her.

Everyone on the Normandy has killed casualties. Its an inevitability of war and by that rationale then you couldn't logically take Samara, Jack, Zaeed, etc. I think if you look closer at Samara and Morinth they're both monsters and victims it just depends on who you sympathize with more.

[Asenza]

android654 wrote...

I agree. However, I like Jack because she recognizes what she's done but doesn't feel remorse for it because of what happened to her. That's why she did what she did, she realized something cruel about people and instilled that behavior in herself. How is that different from what Morinth did?

The only reason Jack is better is because I enjoy the character more, but the truth is Morinth is treating everyone the way her family and country/planet/society treated her Jack started out the same exact way.

Wait, what?

I'm sorry, you're going to have to remind me how Jack and Morinth are the same. Because while Jack's past post-Cerberus is a bit muddled and vague, it's clear she didn't date her victims. She didn't kill anyone except those who were trying to screw her over.

Morinth and Nef on the other hand...

[android654]

Asenza wrote...

android654 wrote...

I agree. However, I like Jack because she recognizes what she's done but doesn't feel remorse for it because of what happened to her. That's why she did what she did, she realized something cruel about people and instilled that behavior in herself. How is that different from what Morinth did?

The only reason Jack is better is because I enjoy the character more, but the truth is Morinth is treating everyone the way her family and country/planet/society treated her Jack started out the same exact way.

Wait, what?

I'm sorry, you're going to have to remind me how Jack and Morinth are the same. Because while Jack's past post-Cerberus is a bit muddled and vague, it's clear she didn't date her victims. She didn't kill anyone except those who were trying to screw her over.

Morinth and Nef on the other hand...

I said they're the same because their problems are the product of other people f**king them over. Jack by Cerberus, slavers, cults, batarians, etc. Morinth was betrayed by her mother and her people. Does JAck have more reason as to why and how she kills people? No doubt, but its also not impossible to see why Morinth does what she does.

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

android654 wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Morinth doesn't simply seek freedom; She enjoys manipulating people and killing them when they feel safest. 

She tells Shepard this multiple times in her apartment.

Perhaps you missed the part where Morinth was talking about opponents, not pray. She talked about those that wanted to use her and those that wanted to kill her, and how that ended badly for them. She talked about Samara ( chess ), she talked about thugs that she encounters in the dark corners of the galaxy ( dueling ), and she talked about a rich suitor that wanted to have sex with her, and was hitting on her ( statue ).

"I love any game where your opponent can believe he is about to win ... just before you kill him."
No reference to Samara there. Just the same statement about letting people think they have the upper hand right before kill them.

"I was into duelling for awhile. I love the moment you see it in your opponent's eyes; he knows you're better than him and he's going to die."
Duelling is a sport, not self-defence. At best it's a means of avenging an insult, but it's never what you do when you encounter thugs in a dark alley. 

"A gift from a suitor. The statue's got more personality than he did. Still he impressed me enough that he finally got what he wanted. It didn't end the way he hoped."
There's no crime in wanting to have sex with someone; there is however a crime in having sex with someone while knowing that the act will kill them.


Over and over she talks about letting people think they're safe before killing them, she only starts in with the "woe is me, I is a victim" schtick when Samara comes into her room. Even there it's mixed in with a bunch of nonsense about being the future of the asari race.

When you take into consideration that she was exiled as a child and add that with the daunting relization that she'd be isolated and alone for what would seem to us lik eternity, its easy to see how that could've been anyone... She's more victim than monster, Her mother and circumstance did more to create her than she did.

I can understand trying to run away but she still killed many innocent people on the way and, for that, I choose to kill her.

Everyone on the Normandy has killed casualties. Its an inevitability of war and by that rationale then you couldn't logically take Samara, Jack, Zaeed, etc. I think if you look closer at Samara and Morinth they're both monsters and victims it just depends on who you sympathize with more.

Killing enemy troops on the battlefield is a far different experience than preying on innocents who have never handled a weapon.

[Asenza]

android654 wrote...

Asenza wrote...

android654 wrote...

I agree. However, I like Jack because she recognizes what she's done but doesn't feel remorse for it because of what happened to her. That's why she did what she did, she realized something cruel about people and instilled that behavior in herself. How is that different from what Morinth did?

The only reason Jack is better is because I enjoy the character more, but the truth is Morinth is treating everyone the way her family and country/planet/society treated her Jack started out the same exact way.

Wait, what?

I'm sorry, you're going to have to remind me how Jack and Morinth are the same. Because while Jack's past post-Cerberus is a bit muddled and vague, it's clear she didn't date her victims. She didn't kill anyone except those who were trying to screw her over.

Morinth and Nef on the other hand...

I said they're the same because their problems are the product of other people f**king them over. Jack by Cerberus, slavers, cults, batarians, etc. Morinth was betrayed by her mother and her people. Does JAck have more reason as to why and how she kills people? No doubt, but its also not impossible to see why Morinth does what she does.

Morinth murders people because she likes to. Not because asari society looked down on her, not because of anything Samara did. Your equation (cold society+bad mother+ardat-yakshi syndrome) is in no way equal to Serial Killer, when two others, Rila and Falere, raised under the exact same conditions, chose otherwise.

Hear that? They chose to to submit themselves to  the taint seclusion for the greater good of not only themselves, but everyone else. The Ardat-Yakshi syndrome in an enabler, in enables Morinth to gain power and pleasure from those she kills, but it does not compel her to do so.  She chose to kill people, proving those that would have locked her up a thousand percent correct.

For a real-life parallel: the roots of alcoholism are at least partially genetic. But genetics aren't everything. Not everyone who has family members with a drinking disorder goes on to be an alcoholic.

[android654]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

android654 wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Morinth doesn't simply seek freedom; She enjoys manipulating people and killing them when they feel safest. 

She tells Shepard this multiple times in her apartment.

Perhaps you missed the part where Morinth was talking about opponents, not pray. She talked about those that wanted to use her and those that wanted to kill her, and how that ended badly for them. She talked about Samara ( chess ), she talked about thugs that she encounters in the dark corners of the galaxy ( dueling ), and she talked about a rich suitor that wanted to have sex with her, and was hitting on her ( statue ).

"I love any game where your opponent can believe he is about to win ... just before you kill him."
No reference to Samara there. Just the same statement about letting people think they have the upper hand right before kill them.

"I was into duelling for awhile. I love the moment you see it in your opponent's eyes; he knows you're better than him and he's going to die."
Duelling is a sport, not self-defence. At best it's a means of avenging an insult, but it's never what you do when you encounter thugs in a dark alley. 

"A gift from a suitor. The statue's got more personality than he did. Still he impressed me enough that he finally got what he wanted. It didn't end the way he hoped."
There's no crime in wanting to have sex with someone; there is however a crime in having sex with someone while knowing that the act will kill them.


Over and over she talks about letting people think they're safe before killing them, she only starts in with the "woe is me, I is a victim" schtick when Samara comes into her room. Even there it's mixed in with a bunch of nonsense about being the future of the asari race.

When you take into consideration that she was exiled as a child and add that with the daunting relization that she'd be isolated and alone for what would seem to us lik eternity, its easy to see how that could've been anyone... She's more victim than monster, Her mother and circumstance did more to create her than she did.

I can understand trying to run away but she still killed many innocent people on the way and, for that, I choose to kill her.

Everyone on the Normandy has killed casualties. Its an inevitability of war and by that rationale then you couldn't logically take Samara, Jack, Zaeed, etc. I think if you look closer at Samara and Morinth they're both monsters and victims it just depends on who you sympathize with more.

Killing enemy troops on the battlefield is a far different experience than preying on innocents who have never handled a weapon.

Different skill set, but the concept is the same, and not everyone as killed just enemies. Miranda, Samara, Morinth, Mordin, Zaeed, Thane, Garrus have all commited some form of revenge killings or killing of people they knew intimately.

[android654]

Asenza wrote...

android654 wrote...

Asenza wrote...

android654 wrote...

I agree. However, I like Jack because she recognizes what she's done but doesn't feel remorse for it because of what happened to her. That's why she did what she did, she realized something cruel about people and instilled that behavior in herself. How is that different from what Morinth did?

The only reason Jack is better is because I enjoy the character more, but the truth is Morinth is treating everyone the way her family and country/planet/society treated her Jack started out the same exact way.

Wait, what?

I'm sorry, you're going to have to remind me how Jack and Morinth are the same. Because while Jack's past post-Cerberus is a bit muddled and vague, it's clear she didn't date her victims. She didn't kill anyone except those who were trying to screw her over.

Morinth and Nef on the other hand...

I said they're the same because their problems are the product of other people f**king them over. Jack by Cerberus, slavers, cults, batarians, etc. Morinth was betrayed by her mother and her people. Does JAck have more reason as to why and how she kills people? No doubt, but its also not impossible to see why Morinth does what she does.

Morinth murders people because she likes to. Not because asari society looked down on her, not because of anything Samara did. Your equation (cold society+bad mother+ardat-yakshi syndrome) is in no way equal to Serial Killer, when two others, Rila and Falere, raised under the exact same conditions, chose otherwise.

Hear that? They chose to to submit themselves to  the taint seclusion for the greater good of not only themselves, but everyone else. The Ardat-Yakshi syndrome in an enabler, in enables Morinth to gain power and pleasure from those she kills, but it does not compel her to do so.  She chose to kill people, proving those that would have locked her up a thousand percent correct.

For a real-life parallel: the roots of alcoholism are at least partially genetic. But genetics aren't everything. Not everyone who has family members with a drinking disorder goes on to be an alcoholic.

Do you think its fair to ask that of a child? They're essentially children after 100, and they tell her she must be confined to seculsion for the rest of her existence. Why is that ok? Why is it ok to ask anyone to quarentine themselves because they have a disease? As a shild all she knew was her mothers and sisters and they all betrayed that trust a child has for their family. She wasn't left with much of a choice, she had to run. What happened from there, I assume, added to her development.

That's not a fair parallel at all. Morinth can never be with another person without killing them, an alchoholic can have relationships but can choose not to drink, she doesn't have a choice. Can you imagine what it has to be like to be forced into celibacy for thousands of years? In many ways its like being dead while breathing.

I think you're misreading me. I'm not saying she's right or werong, I'm saying its easy to see how whe got that way and a part of me feels a bit empathetic towards that.

[Medhia Nox]

"Fair" - get real.

Do you think it's "fair" to ask John Wayne Gacy to stop killing? He has a disease - we should let him keep killing!

And I agree - I see how she got that way. 1) Samara should never have had children. 2) Any children she did have should have been aborted.

This isn't "my child is handicapped" - this is "my child is an insatiable space vampire".

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

android654 wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Morinth doesn't simply seek freedom; She enjoys manipulating people and killing them when they feel safest. 

She tells Shepard this multiple times in her apartment.

Perhaps you missed the part where Morinth was talking about opponents, not pray. She talked about those that wanted to use her and those that wanted to kill her, and how that ended badly for them. She talked about Samara ( chess ), she talked about thugs that she encounters in the dark corners of the galaxy ( dueling ), and she talked about a rich suitor that wanted to have sex with her, and was hitting on her ( statue ).

"I love any game where your opponent can believe he is about to win ... just before you kill him."
No reference to Samara there. Just the same statement about letting people think they have the upper hand right before kill them.

"I was into duelling for awhile. I love the moment you see it in your opponent's eyes; he knows you're better than him and he's going to die."
Duelling is a sport, not self-defence. At best it's a means of avenging an insult, but it's never what you do when you encounter thugs in a dark alley. 

"A gift from a suitor. The statue's got more personality than he did. Still he impressed me enough that he finally got what he wanted. It didn't end the way he hoped."
There's no crime in wanting to have sex with someone; there is however a crime in having sex with someone while knowing that the act will kill them.


Over and over she talks about letting people think they're safe before killing them, she only starts in with the "woe is me, I is a victim" schtick when Samara comes into her room. Even there it's mixed in with a bunch of nonsense about being the future of the asari race.

When you take into consideration that she was exiled as a child and add that with the daunting relization that she'd be isolated and alone for what would seem to us lik eternity, its easy to see how that could've been anyone... She's more victim than monster, Her mother and circumstance did more to create her than she did.

I can understand trying to run away but she still killed many innocent people on the way and, for that, I choose to kill her.

Everyone on the Normandy has killed casualties. Its an inevitability of war and by that rationale then you couldn't logically take Samara, Jack, Zaeed, etc. I think if you look closer at Samara and Morinth they're both monsters and victims it just depends on who you sympathize with more.

Killing enemy troops on the battlefield is a far different experience than preying on innocents who have never handled a weapon.

Different skill set, but the concept is the same, and not everyone as killed just enemies. Miranda, Samara, Morinth, Mordin, Zaeed, Thane, Garrus have all commited some form of revenge killings or killing of people they knew intimately.

Mordin, Garrus, Zaeed, Miranda, and Samara's "personal kills" are all optional and can be stopped. Those don't hold any weight.

Who has Thane killed that was close to him?

[slimgrin]

People, easy with the quote pyramids.

[Xilizhra]

The Ardat-Yakshi syndrome in an enabler, in enables Morinth to gain power and pleasure from those she kills, but it does not compel her to do so. She chose to kill people, proving those that would have locked her up a thousand percent correct.

Actually incorrect. It's an addiction, thus a compulsion.

[Asenza]

android654 wrote...

Do you think its fair to ask that of a child? They're essentially children after 100, and they tell her she must be confined to seculsion for the rest of her existence. Why is that ok? Why is it ok to ask anyone to quarentine themselves because they have a disease? As a shild all she knew was her mothers and sisters and they all betrayed that trust a child has for their family. She wasn't left with much of a choice, she had to run. What happened from there, I assume, added to her development.

That's not a fair parallel at all. Morinth can never be with another person without killing them, an alchoholic can have relationships but can choose not to drink, she doesn't have a choice. Can you imagine what it has to be like to be forced into celibacy for thousands of years? In many ways its like being dead while breathing.

I think you're misreading me. I'm not saying she's right or werong, I'm saying its easy to see how whe got that way and a part of me feels a bit empathetic towards that.

Ok, deep breath.

Forty is young for an asari. I might be wrong, but there was one Asari on illium that had just moved out of her parent's house at sixty, and a just over a hundred, Liara claimed that she was seen as "little more" than a child. But seeing as fellow academics would look down at someone hundreds of years younger than them, well it's more or less justified.

Up until the age of forty (or maturity, as Samara calls it, details get fuzzy here about here) Morinth had a normal asari childhood until she was diagnosed. She had the same choice as her sisters, between a life of comfort and isolation or running away and inflicting themselves on the rest of the galaxy. Morinth chose the latter, her sisters, the former. It's not a happy choice, certainly not fair. But that's how life is. Once she was free, she didn't have to go on a four-hundred year killing spree. If freedom was the sole objective, wholescale murder was the quickest route back to incarceration or death.

No one can force someone else to drink or smoke cigarettes. That is the individual's decision. I think you're lauding sex a bit too highly- not only is it not necessary for the individual of a species, but I believe some humans throughout history have done that celibacy thing... nuns and some priests if I recall correctly. Granted, Morinth's life-span is several hundred years long, but certainly not several millenia in length.

What you're essentially saying is that Morinth's inability to have sex without killing her partner is so tragic, so unfair, that she deserves to go out and have as much of it as she wants.... leaving scores of dead victims in her wake.

@ Xilizhra,

Hey, I knew you'd turn up sooner or later.

Once started, yes. But that still hinges on the individual deciding to kill another. That just makes containment all the more important.

Modifié par Asenza, 20 janvier 2012 - 05:23 .

[slimgrin]

Medhia Nox wrote...

"Fair" - get real.

Do you think it's "fair" to ask John Wayne Gacy to stop killing? He has a disease - we should let him keep killing!

And I agree - I see how she got that way. 1) Samara should never have had children. 2) Any children she did have should have been aborted.

This isn't "my child is handicapped" - this is "my child is an insatiable space vampire".

Exactly. Comparing these two is like comparing a monk to a serial killer.

[android654]

Medhia Nox wrote...

"Fair" - get real.

Do you think it's "fair" to ask John Wayne Gacy to stop killing? He has a disease - we should let him keep killing!

And I agree - I see how she got that way. 1) Samara should never have had children. 2) Any children she did have should have been aborted.

This isn't "my child is handicapped" - this is "my child is an insatiable space vampire".

This is a work of fiction, its easy to sympathize with a killer because the killers aren't real. Also the two aren't the same. A serial killer may kill for psychological reasons, Morinth's condition is physiological and nothing she did to cause it and she 's barred from having a normal life.

@AgitatedLemon

Thane hunted down and slowly killed his wife's killers. That was personal murder, not killing basic enemies. Revenge killings can be just as damaging to the killer as killing a former lover.

Optional or not, it doesn't matter, the content is there. It may not have happened on your playthrough, but my Miranda killed Niket and Mordin killer Maelon.

[Xilizhra]

@ Xilizhra,

Hey, I knew you'd turn up sooner or later.

Once started, yes. But that still hinges on the individual deciding to kill another. That just makes containment all the more important.

Not necessarily. It's entirely possible she killed someone and got slammed with the addiction before she even knew about it.

[android654]

Asenza wrote...

android654 wrote...

Do you think its fair to ask that of a child? They're essentially children after 100, and they tell her she must be confined to seculsion for the rest of her existence. Why is that ok? Why is it ok to ask anyone to quarentine themselves because they have a disease? As a shild all she knew was her mothers and sisters and they all betrayed that trust a child has for their family. She wasn't left with much of a choice, she had to run. What happened from there, I assume, added to her development.

That's not a fair parallel at all. Morinth can never be with another person without killing them, an alchoholic can have relationships but can choose not to drink, she doesn't have a choice. Can you imagine what it has to be like to be forced into celibacy for thousands of years? In many ways its like being dead while breathing.

I think you're misreading me. I'm not saying she's right or werong, I'm saying its easy to see how whe got that way and a part of me feels a bit empathetic towards that.

Ok, deep breath.

Forty is young for an asari. I might be wrong, but there was one Asari on illium that had just moved out of her parent's house at sixty, and a just over a hundred, Liara claimed that she was seen as "little more" than a child. But seeing as fellow academics would look down at someone hundreds of years younger than them, well it's more or less justified.

Up until the age of forty (or maturity, as Samara calls it, details get fuzzy here about here) Morinth had a normal asari childhood until she was diagnosed. She had the same choice as her sisters, between a life of comfort and isolation or running away and inflicting themselves on the rest of the galaxy. Morinth chose the latter, her sisters, the former. It's not a happy choice, certainly not fair. But that's how life is. Once she was free, she didn't have to go on a four-hundred year killing spree. If freedom was the sole objective, wholescale murder was the quickest route back to incarceration or death.

No one can force someone else to drink or smoke cigarettes. That is the individual's decision. I think you're lauding sex a bit too highly- not only is it not necessary for the individual of a species, but I believe some humans throughout history have done that celibacy thing... nuns and some priests if I recall correctly. Granted, Morinth's life-span is several hundred years long, but certainly not several millenia in length.

What you're essentially saying is that Morinth's inability to have sex without killing her partner is so tragic, so unfair, that she deserves to go out and have as much of it as she wants.... leaving scores of dead victims in her wake.

I'm a little fuzzy on the life span but I thought they tend to live more than a thousand years, but their age system seems to be a bit of a mess anyway.

Not saying that at all, What I'm saying is that I understand her motivations and empathize with her.That's all I'm saying. Could she be celibate for the remainder of her life like a monk or a nun? Sure, but that's a choice people have to make, and very few people actually do it. While sex may not be that important to some, you are missing the point its not the sex she's being denied, its the isolation she's forced into. She can never truly be close to another person because she's weighted down byt her disease and the stigma surrounding it, she's a paraih with no means of escape and she initially didn't do anything to gain that status.

[Asenza]

Xilizhra wrote...

Not necessarily. It's entirely possible she killed someone and got slammed with the addiction before she even knew about it.

Ok then.

But then you might have to apply that same reasoning to Rila and Falere. And they didn't choose to make a break for it. Compulsion denied.

We really do need some more information about the sisters birth order... was Morinth the last or the first to be diagnosed or in the middle...

Modifié par Asenza, 20 janvier 2012 - 05:35 .

[Xilizhra]

I suspect Rila and Falere were tested and then diagnosed after Morinth's more visceral diagnosis.

[Asenza]

Nope, you have absolutely no proof, can't do that. All you can say is that we need more information. There you go again, making Morinth have it worse, the unexpected, the first. Moar tragedy, cries Xilizhra, because heaps of tragedy must equal sympathy. And sympathy means excusing all kinds of inexcusable things!

When it gets down to it, given the information we have right now, the issue becomes, can compulsion be overcome?
So far, given Rila and Falere's decision, in addition to all the other ardat-yakshi that submit themselves to seclusion, the answer is yes.

Modifié par Asenza, 20 janvier 2012 - 06:01 .