493 réponses à ce sujet

[android654]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Android654: If it is to be believed that the chemistry of the brain - as well as the physiological make up of the brain... predisposes people like serial killer to do what they do... then there is absolutely nothing different.

In fact... an argument might be made that given that he had no control over his environment - someone like John Wayne Gacy could NOT stop himself from being a killer. There's plenty of indications that serial killers know that what they are doing is wrong.

So - for me - someone like Gacy is even more sympathetic in the fact that it seems that fate truly was stacked against him (that doesn't change the fact that someone like that either needs to be put away forever - or executed - I prefer the former)

We're told that Morinth "could have" controlled herself... she chose not to.

The difference is that this is a work of fiction. I would not and could not feel bad for an actual serial killer, but in a story they can be humanized.

[D.Kain]

Asenza wrote...

D.Kain wrote...


Also - trying to survive for 400 years, and then risking life on a suicide mission for someone, as a way of gratitude - totally sociopathic. 

Oh, D.Kain...

"I like going to dark-dangerous places. I don't understand the obsession with safety. Some of us choose differently."

The suicide mission was an extreme vacation for her, and she loved the thrill of it. Weren't you paying attention to her "Recruitment mission?" Graditude had naught to do with it.

Oh, right. Who am I talking to?

You really don't see the difference between a thrill/danger and a SUICIDE? 

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

"I love any game where your opponent can believe he is about to win ... just before you kill him."
No reference to Samara there. Just the same statement about letting people think they have the upper hand right before kill them.

"I was into duelling for awhile. I love the moment you see it in your opponent's eyes; he knows you're better than him and he's going to die."
Duelling is a sport, not self-defence. At best it's a means of avenging an insult, but it's never what you do when you encounter thugs in a dark alley. 

"A gift from a suitor. The statue's got more personality than he did. Still he impressed me enough that he finally got what he wanted. It didn't end the way he hoped."
There's no crime in wanting to have sex with someone; there is however a crime in having sex with someone while knowing that the act will kill them.


Over and over she talks about letting people think they're safe before killing them, she only starts in with the "woe is me, I is a victim" schtick when Samara comes into her room. Even there it's mixed in with a bunch of nonsense about being the future of the asari race.

You take the statements too blunt. Though still it was about opponents not victims.

[D.Kain]

Asenza wrote...

Oh, great post. Instead of just saying they want to be different than everyone else by making a ridiculously backwards decision (which is different, just not in the, oh, I'm a rebel way I suspect this conflict stems from) they instead distort and at other times fabricate what the source material shows as fact.

Sorry but this is pure bull. I do not support Morinth because it raises arguments...

[BlueMagitek]

That's true, D.Kain does support Morinth with his twisted morality; we've already had a 100+ page topic about it.

[D.Kain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Sucks to be Morinth (or any AY), yes, but what would you have them do? A single AY managed to make herself out as a physical goddess to a bunch of tribal Asari.

I would register them, and have them psysically identify. Then they would choose whether they want to live in seclusion or out of seclusion. 

[HYENA-21]

 'cause Morinth the way much more dangerous, violent, faithless and independent. And I would lie and say that she doesn't make me a boner...and certainly some strange attraction to her dark personality...

Modifié par HYENA-21, 21 janvier 2012 - 08:47 .

[Goneaviking]

android654 wrote...

When you take into consideration that she was exiled as a child and add that with the daunting relization that she'd be isolated and alone for what would seem to us lik eternity, its easy to see how that could've been anyone... She's more victim than monster, Her mother and circumstance did more to create her than she did.

I've read that most abusers were themselves abused, or witnessed abuse, while young. I feel sympathy for their suffering when they were young, however it doesn't make them any less responsible for the choices they've made

Morinth has been on a killing spree for centuries, she hasn't been a child since well before Shepard was born and if she'd stopped killing at any point between then and her being tracked down on Omega she would likely never have been caught. Certainly Alia wouldn't have known there was an Ardat Yakshi on her station, and she wouldn't have been able to direct Shepard to Nef's grieving mother.

It is irrelevant whether Morinth began her run as a victim, by the time you learn of her existence she's embraced life as a monster and she's pursuing innocents with the intent of seducing them to their deaths.

[Goneaviking]

[quote]android654 wrote...

[quote]AgitatedLemon wrote...

[quote]android654 wrote...

[quote]BatmanPWNS wrote...

[quote]android654 wrote...

I can understand trying to run away but she still killed many innocent people on the way and, for that, I choose to kill her.

[/quote]

Everyone on the Normandy has killed casualties. Its an inevitability of war and by that rationale then you couldn't logically take Samara, Jack, Zaeed, etc. I think if you look closer at Samara and Morinth they're both monsters and victims it just depends on who you sympathize with more.

[/quote]

Killing enemy troops on the battlefield is a far different experience than preying on innocents who have never handled a weapon.

[/quote]

Different skill set, but the concept is the same, and not everyone as killed just enemies. Miranda, Samara, Morinth, Mordin, Zaeed, Thane, Garrus have all commited some form of revenge killings or killing of people they knew intimately.

[/quote]

In war everyone knows the score. It's a warzone, people are wearing uniforms and carrying the biggest guns they can find and you pretty much knows who stands for what.

The concept is very different from a compulsive sex-murder of the sort that Morinth specialises in. She makes a point of winning the trust of her victims and kills them for her own gratification not because they hurt her, or were likely to hurt her, or because they invaded her country, or because she doesn't like their ideological leanings. She did it because she enjoyed it, cut and dried.

It really is more black and white than Samara's code.

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

It is irrelevant whether Morinth began her run as a victim, by the time you learn of her existence she's embraced life as a monster and she's pursuing innocents with the intent of seducing them to their deaths.

Speculation. We don't know if Morinth was killing innocents. Also Samara was killing innocents.

[PrinceLionheart]

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

It is irrelevant whether Morinth began her run as a victim, by the time you learn of her existence she's embraced life as a monster and she's pursuing innocents with the intent of seducing them to their deaths.

Speculation. We don't know if Morinth was killing innocents. Also Samara was killing innocents.

Pray tell, what innocents did Samara kill? And please, don't site one of the Eclipse Sisters as being an innocent.

[parthian]

She was willing to kill that Asari cop and anyone else who had a role in taking her into custody simply for doing their job since it interfered with her pursuit of Morintha.

[Kid Buu]

Samara`s justicar code is the dumbest and most out of place thing in ME.

[PMC65]

parthian wrote...

She was willing to kill that Asari cop and anyone else who had a role in taking her into custody simply for doing their job since it interfered with her pursuit of Morintha.

Actually they were dirty cops once they arrested and detained Samara without just cause. If they will arrest a justicar for political reasons, what else has this agency done to people of even less importance? But this thread really is about why someone would choose Morinth.

I'll be interested to see how that plays out in ME3 ... if Bioware chooses the predator or victim route for Morinth.

[D.Kain]

PMC65 wrote...

I'll be interested to see how that plays out in ME3 ... if Bioware chooses the predator or victim route for Morinth.

Probably more like just a friend. 

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

Kid Buu wrote...

Samara`s justicar code is the dumbest and most out of place thing in ME.

I would have to agree with you on that one, Buu.

[BlueMagitek]

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

It is irrelevant whether Morinth began her run as a victim, by the time you learn of her existence she's embraced life as a monster and she's pursuing innocents with the intent of seducing them to their deaths.

Speculation. We don't know if Morinth was killing innocents. Also Samara was killing innocents.

And now D.Kain continues with his favored tactics of blaming & making exagerrated, dirty claims on the victims.  Of course Nef was a dirty, dirty person who deserved what happened to her for wanting to go to a club!

Now, please, once again explain how tribal Asari who were brainwashed into loving and sacrificing their own to Morinth are not innocent.

[PMC65]

D.Kain wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

I'll be interested to see how that plays out in ME3 ... if Bioware chooses the predator or victim route for Morinth.

Probably more like just a friend. 

I can't see Bioware taking a neutral path with her character to be honest. While I have not ever saved her (twice siding with Samara and once failing the LM and Morinth running), I will be interested to see how Bioware treats her story in ME3 whether you chose her over Samara or failed the LM.

For me ... I loved seeing her as Hannibal Lecter in-game - smart, predatorial and unapologetic. Others want more for the character or would like to see her as needing Shepard saving her. No matter which way you see her I hope that ME3 does her justice ... good, evil or indifferent. 

[PrinceLionheart]

parthian wrote...

She was willing to kill that Asari cop and anyone else who had a role in taking her into custody simply for doing their job since it interfered with her pursuit of Morintha.

And yet she didn't kill the cops. 

Now, back to my question, which innocents did she actually kill?

[Xilizhra]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

It is irrelevant whether Morinth began her run as a victim, by the time you learn of her existence she's embraced life as a monster and she's pursuing innocents with the intent of seducing them to their deaths.

Speculation. We don't know if Morinth was killing innocents. Also Samara was killing innocents.

Pray tell, what innocents did Samara kill? And please, don't site one of the Eclipse Sisters as being an innocent.

Well, regardless of innocence, Samara has killed the helpless.

[D.Kain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Now, please, once again explain how tribal Asari who were brainwashed into loving and sacrificing their own to Morinth are not innocent.

Must have been something, cuz Samara let go Nihlus because of the hostage, but wiped out the asari, even though they were no match for her and could regain their right minds after Morinth ran away.

[Kid Buu]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

parthian wrote...

She was willing to kill that Asari cop and anyone else who had a role in taking her into custody simply for doing their job since it interfered with her pursuit of Morintha.

And yet she didn't kill the cops. 

Now, back to my question, which innocents did she actually kill?

I believe she admits to killing people that dont deserve to die as she says that she wishes she could forget all the people shes killed. Or some **** like that.

[D.Kain]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

parthian wrote...

She was willing to kill that Asari cop and anyone else who had a role in taking her into custody simply for doing their job since it interfered with her pursuit of Morintha.

And yet she didn't kill the cops. 

Now, back to my question, which innocents did she actually kill?

Not in the gameplay. Morinth didn't kill innocents during gameplay too. Samara just made too much reference to being ready to kill innocents, that makes me think that she did in 400 years actually do that. Speculation of course again. 

[Kid Buu]

D.Kain wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

parthian wrote...

She was willing to kill that Asari cop and anyone else who had a role in taking her into custody simply for doing their job since it interfered with her pursuit of Morintha.

And yet she didn't kill the cops. 

Now, back to my question, which innocents did she actually kill?

Not in the gameplay. Morinth didn't kill innocents during gameplay too. Samara just made too much reference to being ready to kill innocents, that makes me think that she did in 400 years actually do that. Speculation of course again. 

Its pretty obvious that she has. If it wwasnt for Shepard, she would have killed her way out of custody.