493 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

It is irrelevant whether Morinth began her run as a victim, by the time you learn of her existence she's embraced life as a monster and she's pursuing innocents with the intent of seducing them to their deaths.

Speculation. 

Ignoring dialogue that Morinth herself tells Shepard again I see.

Oh come on... 

- Shepard I just want to rape people, nothing more...

Modifié par D.Kain, 21 janvier 2012 - 04:45 .

[PrinceLionheart]

D.Kain wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

parthian wrote...

She was willing to kill that Asari cop and anyone else who had a role in taking her into custody simply for doing their job since it interfered with her pursuit of Morintha.

And yet she didn't kill the cops. 

Now, back to my question, which innocents did she actually kill?

Not in the gameplay. Morinth didn't kill innocents during gameplay too. Samara just made too much reference to being ready to kill innocents, that makes me think that she did in 400 years actually do that. Speculation of course again. 

Oh, so it's ok to use reference against Samara, but doing the same with Morinth is "speculation."

Sorry, but I'll take Samara's Code over Morinth mindraping an entire tribe so she could have human shields.

[D.Kain]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

parthian wrote...

She was willing to kill that Asari cop and anyone else who had a role in taking her into custody simply for doing their job since it interfered with her pursuit of Morintha.

And yet she didn't kill the cops. 

Now, back to my question, which innocents did she actually kill?

Not in the gameplay. Morinth didn't kill innocents during gameplay too. Samara just made too much reference to being ready to kill innocents, that makes me think that she did in 400 years actually do that. Speculation of course again. 

Oh, so it's ok to use reference against Samara, but doing the same with Morinth is "speculation."

Sorry, but I'll take Samara's Code over Morinth mindraping an entire tribe so she could have human shields.

The difference is that Morinth's reason for killing is better than Samara's. 

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, regardless of innocence, Samara has killed the helpless.

So has Shepard.  And a number of your companions.

D.Kain wrote...

Must have been something, cuz Samara let
go Nihlus because of the hostage, but wiped out the asari, even though they were no match for her and could regain their right minds after
Morinth ran away.

First off; baseless speculation.  There's no knowing if the tribe could be "fixed".  As it so happens, they were brainwashed and were attacking Samara (perhaps to the death). 

A reasonable person blames Morinth for brainwashing innocent people and making them die for her.  Not the person chasing her.

[D.Kain]

[quote]BlueMagitek wrote...

So has Shepard.  And a number of your companions.
[quote] 

And this is why Morinth is just as any other member of the team. And Samara is just the worst of the bunch in my opinion, because I don't like her code.

[quote]BlueMagitek wrote... 
First off; baseless speculation.  There's no knowing if the tribe could be "fixed".  As it so happens, they were brainwashed and were attacking Samara (perhaps to the death). 

A reasonable person blames Morinth for brainwashing innocent people and making them die for her.  Not the person chasing her.
[/quote]

A lot here is speculation, because we have to deal with the limited information we were given.

By the same logic a reasonable person blames Thanes and not the ones who hire him to assassinate, which again leads to Morinth being no worse than the rest of the bunch.

Modifié par D.Kain, 21 janvier 2012 - 05:27 .

[Kmead15]

D.Kain wrote...

The difference is that Morinth's reason for killing is better than Samara's. 

I know if I were to get murdered, my killer telling me "I justed want to get laid" would make me feel a lot better than "Justicar Code Title 40 Chapter 6 Article 3 said I had to do it."

[D.Kain]

Kmead15 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

The difference is that Morinth's reason for killing is better than Samara's. 

I know if I were to get murdered, my killer telling me "I justed want to get laid" would make me feel a lot better than "Justicar Code Title 40 Chapter 6 Article 3 said I had to do it."

As I said, the kinds of people Morinth kills is a speculation. And yes, that totally would be better. 

[BlueMagitek]

D.Kain wrote...

And this is why Morinth is just as any other member of the team. And Samara is just the worst of the bunch in my opinion, because I don't like her code.

A lot here is speculation, because we have to deal with the limited information we were given.

By the same logic a reasonable person blames Thanes and not the ones who hire him to assassinate, which again leads to Morinth being no worse than the rest of the bunch.

Except the others don't make it a habit of it.  They don't derive pleasure from it.  And even if you don't like Samara's code, that doesn't change that Morinth is a monster.

Yes, but you go full on fan ****** on everything.  And you haven't responded to the point; why do you imagine these brainwashed Asari could be fixed?

I'm sorry, are you comparing an assassin and the people behind it to a serial killer and the "cop" chasing her?  Different scenarios. And in Thane's case, you blame both Thane *and* the ones who hired him.

If a cop is chasing an accused thief down a street, and the thief pushes someone in the way, is it the fault of the thief that the bystander was involved, or the cop?

[HTTP 404]

they are the same person....there's no difference. one or the other as long as they shoot what I shoot

[Flashflame58]

How about, Morinth is a raving sex-addict, oh and get this--she kills her partners during sex.

[Xilizhra]

Kmead15 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

The difference is that Morinth's reason for killing is better than Samara's. 

I know if I were to get murdered, my killer telling me "I justed want to get laid" would make me feel a lot better than "Justicar Code Title 40 Chapter 6 Article 3 said I had to do it."

To be fair, the way Morinth did so would probably feel better.

[D.Kain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Except the others don't make it a habit of it.  They don't derive pleasure from it.  And even if you don't like Samara's code, that doesn't change that Morinth is a monster.

Yes, but you go full on fan ****** on everything.  And you haven't responded to the point; why do you imagine these brainwashed Asari could be fixed?

I'm sorry, are you comparing an assassin and the people behind it to a serial killer and the "cop" chasing her?  Different scenarios. And in Thane's case, you blame both Thane *and* the ones who hired him.

If a cop is chasing an accused thief down a street, and the thief pushes someone in the way, is it the fault of the thief that the bystander was involved, or the cop?

Yes the others DO make a habbit of it, some of them made it their JOB - Thane, Zaeed, Kasumi. Jack and Grunt just get the satisfaction and warm feeling from crushing someones skull.

Morinth is a useful squadmember, I said plenty times before, I am going to try and put Morinth back on track after the a lot more SERIOUS mission. And if I personally see her killing innocents for no reason other than to get high, and if I see that she won't stop or listen to anyone I will kill her. But only then. 

In case of Samara and Morinth it was more like the cop offering the thiefe to die or to steal something and run away.

[D.Kain]

HTTP 404 wrote...

they are the same person....there's no difference. one or the other as long as they shoot what I shoot

Well not really. Morinth is a rational person. And Samara is a cold machine. 

[BlueMagitek]

D.Kain wrote...

Yes the others DO make a habbit of it, some of them made it their JOB - Thane, Zaeed, Kasumi. Jack and Grunt just get the satisfaction and warm feeling from crushing someones skull.

Morinth is a useful squadmember, I said plenty times before, I am going to try and put Morinth back on track after the a lot more SERIOUS mission. And if I personally see her killing innocents for no reason other than to get high, and if I see that she won't stop or listen to anyone I will kill her. But only then. 

In case of Samara and Morinth it was more like the cop offering the thiefe to die or to steal something and run away.

Kasumi?  That's quite the reach.  And yes, it is wrong for them to get satisfaction out of that, and yes, Thane should certainly be killed as well.  You're forgetting Garrus, by the way.  But they typically don't entrance their mark, get them infatuated with them and then murder them.  Or did you forget that part?

You could go and answer the question instead of spouting things not related to it at all.  So, tell me, what gives you the impression that brainwashed Asari can be fixed?  Who is at fault in the scenario I presented?

"For no other reason"?  Well, she kills Shepard, as pointed out an innumerable amount of times in the last topic, and you would buy "oh, I was doing it for power lulz".  Because you just completely ignore the trail of bodies that led you to Morinth's door.

Xilizhra wrote...

To be fair, the way Morinth did so would probably feel better.

Truly Shep is in ecstasy.

[Flashflame58]

D.Kain wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

they are the same person....there's no difference. one or the other as long as they shoot what I shoot

Well not really. Morinth is a rational person. And Samara is a cold machine. 

I am inclined to agree with that statement despite my better judgement.

[Kmead15]

Xilizhra wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...

I know if I were to get murdered, my killer telling me "I justed want to get laid" would make me feel a lot better than "Justicar Code Title 40 Chapter 6 Article 3 said I had to do it."

To be fair, the way Morinth did so would probably feel better.

So I'm dead and my brain is soaked in dopamine? Hot dog, sign me up. That's way better than, you know, living.

[D.Kain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Yes the others DO make a habbit of it, some of them made it their JOB - Thane, Zaeed, Kasumi. Jack and Grunt just get the satisfaction and warm feeling from crushing someones skull.

Morinth is a useful squadmember, I said plenty times before, I am going to try and put Morinth back on track after the a lot more SERIOUS mission. And if I personally see her killing innocents for no reason other than to get high, and if I see that she won't stop or listen to anyone I will kill her. But only then. 

In case of Samara and Morinth it was more like the cop offering the thiefe to die or to steal something and run away.

Kasumi?  That's quite the reach.  And yes, it is wrong for them to get satisfaction out of that, and yes, Thane should certainly be killed as well.  You're forgetting Garrus, by the way.  But they typically don't entrance their mark, get them infatuated with them and then murder them.  Or did you forget that part?

You could go and answer the question instead of spouting things not related to it at all.  So, tell me, what gives you the impression that brainwashed Asari can be fixed?  Who is at fault in the scenario I presented?

"For no other reason"?  Well, she kills Shepard, as pointed out an innumerable amount of times in the last topic, and you would buy "oh, I was doing it for power lulz".  Because you just completely ignore the trail of bodies that led you to Morinth's door.

Yes Kasumi, lol Kasumi is a merc, no better than Zaeed, just acts more cheerful to Shepard. See you want to kill Thane, I don't, that won't bring the ones he killed back, and he is useful in the a lot more SERIOUS matter, I would just encourage him to stop killing people, and he even wanted to stop himself, so no problems there.

I don't know if brainwashed people could be fixed, and you don't know. It is a speculation once more. Though I have a base for this speculation. If Shepard fails a para/rene check with Morinth she brainwashed Shep, but when Samara brakes in Morinth looses her hold/concentration on Shepard, to fight Samara, and Shepard is in control once more, automatically choosing Samara because can't mentaly handle Morinth. 

Morinth doesn't kill Shepard on purpose, as been pointed out innumerable amount of times. She wanted love, and it was a gamble. There was no trail, there was only Nef. 

[D.Kain]

Kmead15 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...

I know if I were to get murdered, my killer telling me "I justed want to get laid" would make me feel a lot better than "Justicar Code Title 40 Chapter 6 Article 3 said I had to do it."

To be fair, the way Morinth did so would probably feel better.

So I'm dead and my brain is soaked in dopamine? Hot dog, sign me up. That's way better than, you know, living.

You die anyway. The difference is that:

Death by Morinth:

You: Hey sexy! 
Morinth: Hey.

Death by Samara:

Samara: You J walked!
You:...


As you can see Samara get's into YOUR business. But you have to be interested in Morinth yourself to be killed by her.
Also you have to be an ass or in a very dangerous place for Morinth to be interested in you.

Modifié par D.Kain, 21 janvier 2012 - 06:03 .

[Flashflame58]

D.Kain wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...

I know if I were to get murdered, my killer telling me "I justed want to get laid" would make me feel a lot better than "Justicar Code Title 40 Chapter 6 Article 3 said I had to do it."

To be fair, the way Morinth did so would probably feel better.

So I'm dead and my brain is soaked in dopamine? Hot dog, sign me up. That's way better than, you know, living.

You die anyway. The difference is that:

Death by Morinth:

You: Hey sexy! 
Morinth: Hey.

Death by Samara:

Samara: You J walked!
You:...


As you can see Samara get's into YOUR business. But you have to be interested in Morinth yourself to be killed by her.

You know, you have a point there.

[BlueMagitek]

D.Kain wrote...

Yes Kasumi, lol Kasumi is a merc, no better than Zaeed, just acts more cheerful to Shepard. See you want to kill Thane, I don't, that won't bring the ones he killed back, and he is useful in the a lot more SERIOUS matter, I would just encourage him to stop killing people, and he even wanted to stop himself, so no problems there.

I don't know if brainwashed people could be fixed, and you don't know. It is a speculation once more. Though I have a base for this speculation. If Shepard fails a para/rene check with Morinth she brainwashed Shep, but when Samara brakes in Morinth looses her hold/concentration on Shepard, to fight Samara, and Shepard is in control once more, automatically choosing Samara because can't mentaly handle Morinth. 

Morinth doesn't kill Shepard on purpose, as been pointed out innumerable amount of times. She wanted love, and it was a gamble. There was no trail, there was only Nef. 

Thane is a state assassin; why does he not deserve to die?  If you're killing Samara because you think she's a cold tool, Thane should fit the bill as well.  He isn't necessary for the SM at all.  Kasumi is a thief, not a merc.  A merc relies on being well known enough to get hired; Kasumi relies on exactly the opposite.

Then why is it so terrible for Samara to kill people that are forever damned by her daughter?  They were forced to worship Morinth to the point they'd sacrifice their own to her; you claim that they aren't innocent, but you have no evidence otherwise.  And you're comparing one moment against a long period of time.  Note that her influence was to keep Shepard in her palm, not sacrifice his crew to her or kill anyone for her.

Still waiting for that answer on the scenario I presented.

See, that's just speculation on your part once again; Morinth has no reason to assume that Shepard would survive (a Prothean Cipher would have no bearing on survival), she knows very well that her meld kills people and has done so far too many times.  You've bought into Morinth's lie hook, line & sinker.  Samara could only follow Morinth based on the people she has been killing.  If Morinth hadn't killed anyone, Samara would have no way of finding her (especially on a place like Omega, where Samara would be stopping every few feet to deal with some injustice of the code). 

[Kmead15]

D.Kain wrote...

You die anyway. The difference is that:

Death by Morinth:

You: Hey sexy! 
Morinth: Hey.

Death by Samara:

Samara: You J walked!
You:...


As you can see Samara get's into YOUR business. But you have to be interested in Morinth yourself to be killed by her.

Wait, not only do I get to be murdered, but I also get betrayed by someone I trust? This just keeps getting more and more awesome by the minute.

[D.Kain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Thane is a state assassin; why does he not deserve to die?  If you're killing Samara because you think she's a cold tool, Thane should fit the bill as well.  He isn't necessary for the SM at all.  Kasumi is a thief, not a merc.  A merc relies on being well known enough to get hired; Kasumi relies on exactly the opposite.

Then why is it so terrible for Samara to kill people that are forever damned by her daughter?  They were forced to worship Morinth to the point they'd sacrifice their own to her; you claim that they aren't innocent, but you have no evidence otherwise.  And you're comparing one moment against a long period of time.  Note that her influence was to keep Shepard in her palm, not sacrifice his crew to her or kill anyone for her.

Still waiting for that answer on the scenario I presented.

See, that's just speculation on your part once again; Morinth has no reason to assume that Shepard would survive (a Prothean Cipher would have no bearing on survival), she knows very well that her meld kills people and has done so far too many times.  You've bought into Morinth's lie hook, line & sinker.  Samara could only follow Morinth based on the people she has been killing.  If Morinth hadn't killed anyone, Samara would have no way of finding her (especially on a place like Omega, where Samara would be stopping every few feet to deal with some injustice of the code). 

I'd only kill people when there is no other way arround the situation. I'd punish Thane for his crimes, unless I knew that he would totally go on a assassination rampage all over again, once the punishment was over, THEN I would execute him. Right now for Thane his punishment is saving the galaxy on suicidal missions, that seems fair to me. Criminals went to war from prison for freedom back in second world war too.

Samara comes across to me as unfixeable. She doesn't see errors in her ways, and she has too much selfcontrol to turn away from it. 

Kasumi is a killer and a thief. She takes the property of other people and kills guards along the way if nescecery ( shadow strike ). And she does it all for money.

We don't know if the asari are forever damned. That is speculation.

I got lost in the text. Point out the scenario to me again please. Sorry.

Morinth told you all the reasons for Shepard to survive. Killing Shepard is the most stupid thing one could imagine to do aboard an AI ship. There is NO way for Morinth to survive after that. She could kill Shepard in her Appartment, she could run away and not throw her life away on a suicide mission. She doesn't get angry if Shepard refuses. Everything tells me that she believed that Shepard had a chance, it was a gamble.

We do not know if it was possible for Morinth not to kill and live on a dangerous station powerless, and not get into slavery or get killed or something in between.