493 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Kain]

Kmead15 wrote...

Wait, not only do I get to be murdered, but I also get betrayed by someone I trust? This just keeps getting more and more awesome by the minute.

Read the other line a added. 

[BlueMagitek]

D.Kain wrote...

I'd only kill people when there is no other way arround the situation. I'd punish Thane for his crimes, unless I knew that he would totally go on a assassination rampage all over again, once the punishment was over, THEN I would execute him. Right now for Thane his punishment is saving the galaxy on suicidal missions, that seems fair to me. Criminals went to war from prison for freedom back in second world war too.

Samara comes across to me as unfixeable. She doesn't see errors in her ways, and she has too much selfcontrol to turn away from it. 

Kasumi is a killer and a thief. She takes the property of other people and kills guards along the way if nescecery ( shadow strike ). And she does it all for money.

We don't know if the asari are forever damned. That is speculation.

I got lost in the text. Point out the scenario to me again please. Sorry.

Morinth told you all the reasons for Shepard to survive. Killing Shepard is the most stupid thing one could imagine to do aboard an AI ship. There is NO way for Morinth to survive after that. She could kill Shepard in her Appartment, she could run away and not throw her life away on a suicide mission. She doesn't get angry if Shepard refuses. Everything tells me that she believed that Shepard had a chance, it was a gamble.

We do not know if it was possible for Morinth not to kill and live on a dangerous station powerless, and not get into slavery or get killed or something in between. 

If you think Kasumi does it all for the money, you clearly haven't talked to her.  Then again, she isn't, you know, evil, so I can see why you'd avoid her when you can volunteer to be killed by one instead.

Yes it is.  But you expect Samara to be perfect and nonlethal against an unknown amount of Asari who are trying to kill her, while claiming these Asari aren't innocent (which justifies Morinth, apparently).

I'll make it even simpler.  Person A is chasing Person B.  Person B knocks down Person C in an attempt to get away from Person A.  Who is at fault for knocking down Person C?

See, now you're imagining that Morinth is a smart person.  A normal person would recognize patterns (that they've observed over 400 years) and say "hey, maybe I shouldn't even suggest that I meld with this person, because when I've done so in the past, all of my partners have died.  As this partner dying would be detrimental to me, I should not even have the offer on the table".  Morinth does exactly the opposite, and tries to appeal to Shep with the "I can only be loved for a fleeting time, woe is me" angle.  Which, once again, you fell for if you're believing that she honestly thought she wouldn't kill Shep.

After 400 years of killing?  She's about equal to Samara in power; she doesn't need any more outside of feeding her addiction.  When she was first running, no, she probably wouldn't have survived as a club hound in Omega (but she could still live there relatively easily; Nef & her mother don't seem to be deadly at all).  She doesn't *need* to kill anyone, and even if she *did*, she does not have the right to kill anyone.  Her life is not more important than anyone elses.

[Kmead15]

Whoops, my bad.

D.Kain wrote...

Also you have to be an ass or in a very dangerous place for Morinth to be interested in you

Those are excellent reasons to kill me. I'll have you know I kill no less than 20 asses a day. 30 if I feel like going the extra mile.

[BlueMagitek]

Being in a club == very dangerous place, apparently.

Sure, it's Omega, but the only violence in the clubs was a hit on Patriarch.

[D.Kain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Being in a club == very dangerous place, apparently.

Sure, it's Omega, but the only violence in the clubs was a hit on Patriarch.

Riiight, nothing bad ever happens in Omega clubs. Shepard had the ability to knock out 3 people and threaten 2 more, on his single visit alone. Nobody probably would even give a crap if after that they took it out of the club with guns right at the front door.
 
And you know what? YES! Not even on Omega freaking club. Right here in my country ( civilized as it is ). You get in the club, and you can get into trouble easily. My friend got into the hospital with a head injury after 7 dudes kicked the crap out of him, because he flirted with a wrong girl. 

This whole Samara's loyalty mission sucks, tbh. Why the hell did a little shy girl suddenly decide to visit ( not just going out to find friends ) a nightclub, and not just any nightclub but somehow got into the VIP section, which apparently anyone can get into without problems, and at her first time she hit on Morinth herself ( even though she was shy ) because you have to get attention from Morinth yourself, for her to notice you, and she started to use drugs. This story just so makes sense. 

Modifié par D.Kain, 21 janvier 2012 - 06:48 .

[HTTP 404]

D.Kain wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

they are the same person....there's no difference. one or the other as long as they shoot what I shoot

Well not really. Morinth is a rational person. And Samara is a cold machine. 

exactly. they are the same

Modifié par HTTP 404, 21 janvier 2012 - 09:02 .

[D.Kain]

HTTP 404 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

they are the same person....there's no difference. one or the other as long as they shoot what I shoot

Well not really. Morinth is a rational person. And Samara is a cold machine. 

exactly. they are the same

Noo, you can't reason with a machine.

[Goneaviking]

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

It is irrelevant whether Morinth began her run as a victim, by the time you learn of her existence she's embraced life as a monster and she's pursuing innocents with the intent of seducing them to their deaths.

Speculation. We don't know if Morinth was killing innocents. Also Samara was killing innocents.

There are many things we don't know about Mass Effect.

We don't know which, if any, religion is true in Mass Effect.
We don't know what colour underwear the Turian councillor wears (my bet is blue!)
We don't know what the Keepers eat, or even if they eat.

Two things that we do know are 1) Nef was an innocent and 2) Morinth killed Nef.

[Goneaviking]

D.Kain wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote... 
First off; baseless speculation.  There's no knowing if the tribe could be "fixed".  As it so happens, they were brainwashed and were attacking Samara (perhaps to the death). 

A reasonable person blames Morinth for brainwashing innocent people and making them die for her.  Not the person chasing her.

A lot here is speculation, because we have to deal with the limited information we were given.

By the same logic a reasonable person blames Thanes and not the ones who hire him to assassinate, which again leads to Morinth being no worse than the rest of the bunch.

Nonsense. A reasonable person blames both Thane and those who commissioned him for the murders. The same hypothetical reasonable person however does not blame Samara for defending herself against a village of cultists intent on murdering her to buy time for their false god to make her getaway.

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

Two things that we do know are 1) Nef was an innocent and 2) Morinth killed Nef.

Speculation. The 1) part.

Modifié par D.Kain, 21 janvier 2012 - 11:18 .

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

Nonsense. A reasonable person blames both Thane and those who commissioned him for the murders. The same hypothetical reasonable person however does not blame Samara for defending herself against a village of cultists intent on murdering her to buy time for their false god to make her getaway.

One does not defend themselves when ATTACKING. Samara was attacking Morinth.

[D.Kain]

Seriously though guys. I think you live in a way to law-obedient places. You do not know what a night club is where the laws grip is not that tight. You can get beaten up, raped or killed in some night clubs in my very country like it is nothing, if you do not know people or are alone. Nobody will even get the thing to the court, and nobody will even know what happened.
We are talking Omega here! A lonely shy girl going into a VIP section, just funny. It's either very bad writing, or she is not that shy of a girl and not a simple artist.

[Goneaviking]

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Nonsense. A reasonable person blames both Thane and those who commissioned him for the murders. The same hypothetical reasonable person however does not blame Samara for defending herself against a village of cultists intent on murdering her to buy time for their false god to make her getaway.

One does not defend themselves when ATTACKING. Samara was attacking Morinth.

Samara was trying to attack Morinth, the cult was not her target. When the cultists attacked her and she had the moral and legal right to defend herself against them with whatever force was necessary.

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

Samara was trying to attack Morinth, the cult was not her target. When the cultists attacked her and she had the moral and legal right to defend herself against them with whatever force was necessary.

My thoughts - Morinth made a cult in the first place because Samara was after her. So basically if she could live freely without being hunted for it, she wouldn't do it in the first place.

[Goneaviking]

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Two things that we do know are 1) Nef was an innocent and 2) Morinth killed Nef.

Speculation. The 1) part.

When every piece of evidence that the game provides you with suggests that a character is innocent it stops being speculation and becomes deductive reasoning. Nothing you find in the game, nothing that any character tells you, no emails you receive casts doubt on Nef's innocence.

Even if you go for a metaphorical innocence argument (it's unclear if she's a virgin for instance) there is nothing suggesting that she is guilty of anything other than allowing herself to be seduced and murdered. Being a young woman in a nightclub does not impugn her reputation, nor sully her honour and it certainly does not make her a valid target for murder.

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Samara
was trying to attack Morinth, the cult was not her target. When the
cultists attacked her and she had the moral and legal right to defend
herself against them with whatever force was necessary.

My
thoughts - Morinth made a cult in the first place because Samara was
after her. So basically if she could live freely without being hunted
for it, she wouldn't do it in the first place.

By contrast this is speculation. A theory not based on any evidence presented by any source other than your own imaginings.

Modifié par Goneaviking, 21 janvier 2012 - 11:49 .

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

When every piece of evidence that the game provides you with suggests that a character is innocent it stops being speculation and becomes deductive reasoning. Nothing you find in the game, nothing that any character tells you, no emails you receive casts doubt on Nef's innocence.

Even if you go for a metaphorical innocence argument (it's unclear if she's a virgin for instance) there is nothing suggesting that she is guilty of anything other than allowing herself to be seduced and murdered. Being a young woman in a nightclub does not impugn her reputation, nor sully her honour and it certainly does not make her a valid target for murder.

I wrote a few things about nightclubs in my posts above. Why did she go to a nightclub on Omega? How did she get into VIP? How did she attract Morinth? 

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

By contrast this is speculation. A theory not based on any evidence presented by any source other than your own imaginings.

No evidence is presented about it being otherwise.

[Goneaviking]

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

When every piece of evidence that the game provides you with suggests that a character is innocent it stops being speculation and becomes deductive reasoning. Nothing you find in the game, nothing that any character tells you, no emails you receive casts doubt on Nef's innocence.

Even if you go for a metaphorical innocence argument (it's unclear if she's a virgin for instance) there is nothing suggesting that she is guilty of anything other than allowing herself to be seduced and murdered. Being a young woman in a nightclub does not impugn her reputation, nor sully her honour and it certainly does not make her a valid target for murder.

I wrote a few things about nightclubs in my posts above. Why did she go to a nightclub on Omega? How did she get into VIP? How did she attract Morinth? 

Okay girls you heard it here. If you're in a nightclub in your hometown (assumimg your hometown is seedy) then you're asking for trouble. Don't expect any sympathy, because obviously you were asking for it.

And please for the sake of truth and decency DO NOT WEAR WHITE TO YOUR WEDDING!!!!

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

By contrast this is speculation. A theory not based on any evidence presented by any source other than your own imaginings.

No evidence is presented about it being otherwise.

Except for the part where Samara tells you that Morinth had them sacrificing their children to be consumed by her. The statement of witnesses (particularly of law enforcement officers in good standing) is considered valid evidence where I live.

Modifié par Goneaviking, 21 janvier 2012 - 11:56 .

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

Okay girls you heard it here. If you're in a nightclub in your hometown (assumimg your hometown is seedy) then your asking for trouble. Don't expect any sympathy, because obviously you were asking for it.

And please for the sake of truth and decency DO NOT WEAR WHITE TO YOUR WEDDING!!!!

Not every club is like that, but we are talking about Omega. 

[Goneaviking]

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Okay girls you heard it here. If you're in a nightclub in your hometown (assumimg your hometown is seedy) then your asking for trouble. Don't expect any sympathy, because obviously you were asking for it.

And please for the sake of truth and decency DO NOT WEAR WHITE TO YOUR WEDDING!!!!

Not every club is like that, but we are talking about Omega. 

Exactly she should have stayed home and practiced knitting. Appropriate suitors would have presented themselves to the head of her family and then arrangements could have been made for her wedding.

Possibly those arrangements might include the exchange of sheep.

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

Exactly she should have stayed home and practiced knitting. Appropriate suitors would have presented themselves to the head of her family and then arrangements could have been made for her wedding.

Possibly those arrangements might include the exchange of sheep.

I have no idea what so ever how a girl like her could live on Omega in the first place. She better stay home with her character to not get in trouble.

I am telling you right now, we have bad clubs in my country. In the freaking Capital, where it is moderetely safe at day. If my attractive female friend goes into a night club alone chances are: She will get raped 90-100%, she will get beaten up if she resists 80%, she will get beaten up beyond repair or killed 20%, if she continues to strugle or will scream too hard. This is reality, this is the european union. 

And now we are talking freaking Omega!

[Goneaviking]

D.Kain wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Exactly she should have stayed home and practiced knitting. Appropriate suitors would have presented themselves to the head of her family and then arrangements could have been made for her wedding.

Possibly those arrangements might include the exchange of sheep.

I have no idea what so ever how a girl like her could live on Omega in the first place. She better stay home with her character to not get in trouble.

I am telling you right now, we have bad clubs in my country. In the freaking Capital, where it is moderetely safe at day. If my attractive female friend goes into a night club alone chances are: She will get raped 90-100%, she will get beaten up if she resists 80%, she will get beaten up beyond repair or killed 20%, if she continues to strugle or will scream too hard. This is reality, this is the european union. 

And now we are talking freaking Omega!

While I have always taken the position that people, including young women like the fictional Nef, have a responsibility to take appropriate precautions to provide for their own safety, the notion that because a woman demonstrates bad judgement periodically makes her rape and/or murder less vile because she somehow encouraged it is an obscenity in modern Western thinking.

I don't care if Nef was the town bike, Morinth had no right to kill her and any promiscuity she may (hypothetically) have taken part in would not make her murder any more justifiable.

At no point have you, or anyone else, or the game itself, presented evidence that Nef was up to anything more sinister than looking for a little excitement and falling for the game's femme fatale. What you have done is imply, with the thinnest of veils, is that she was a woman of loose morals and so it was okay for Morinth to prey upon her.



As to why "a girl like her" would live on Omega? Why is your attractive female friend living in a place where going to a nightclub alone is likely to have these results: "She will get raped 90-100%, she will get beaten up if she resists 80%,
she will get beaten up beyond repair or killed 20%, if she continues to
strugle or will scream too hard."?

Modifié par Goneaviking, 21 janvier 2012 - 12:21 .

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...

While I have always taken the position that people, including young women like the fictional Nef, have a responsibility to take appropriate precautions to provide for their own safety, the notion that because a woman demonstrates bad judgement periodically makes her rape and/or murder less vile because she somehow encouraged it is an obscenity in modern Western thinking.

I don't care if Nef was the town bike, Morinth had no right to kill her and any promiscuity she may (hypothetically) have taken part in would not make her murder any more justifiable.

At no point have you, or anyone else, or the game itself, presented evidence that Nef was up to anything more sinister than looking for a little excitement and falling for the game's femme fatale. What you have done is imply, with the thinnest of veils, is that she was a woman of loose morals and so it was okay for Morinth to prey upon her.

And still this is better than what Samara does. And still Morinth should be reasoned with after she is reqruited. And still Morinth does a lot more useful for the galaxy, by helping in a very serious mission. And still Morinth is no worse then the other bunch of the Normandy. 

[D.Kain]

Goneaviking wrote...


As to why "a girl like her" would live on Omega? Why is your attractive female friend living in a place where going to a nightclub alone is likely to have these results: "She will get raped 90-100%, she will get beaten up if she resists 80%,
she will get beaten up beyond repair or killed 20%, if she continues to
strugle or will scream too hard."?

Because a lot of night clubs are such a place where I live. It is easily avoidable - just don't go there.