I've seen many people on the forums refer to Prazza as a fool, an idiot. For those of you who don't remember who I'm talking about I'm referring to Tali's subordinate on Freedom's Progress who wouldn't trust Shepard and Cerberus. He took his squad ahead, ignoring Tali's orders, and they were killed by a heavy mech.
Obviously the slaughter of his squad could have been avoided had he waited for Shepard and co.
Was he really an idiot though? I mean remember that he was being asked to cooperate with a dead man and with Cerberus. As you may know Cerberus had some recent and very violent run-ins with the quarians in the past. Almost an entire ship was destroyed.
It would seem that Prazza's priority was to get Veetor and extract him to safety before Shepard got his hands on him and... oh I don't know, turned him over to Cerberus.
What if there had been no heavy mech? Would Prazza still be a fool or would we acknowledge him as a hero too wise to be fooled by Cerberus' tricks?
What about you? Did you blow up the Collector base because you are smart enough not to trust the cigarrette smoking man?
What if there is a "heavy mech" so to speak?
Prazza, Hero or Fool?
Débuté par
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
, janv. 19 2012 08:57
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#2
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:06
aksoileau
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Fool because puny quarians shouldn't go against heavy mechs, and he disobeyed Tali who was commanding officer.
#3
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:08
AgitatedLemon
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"I dun trust Cerberus!"
"Prazza, you'll follow my orders"
"Yes ma'am..."
*Later*
"That damn fool Prazza went on ahead to try to get to Veetor first! His squad got mown down by the heavy mech!"
Not only did he directly disobey his CO, but he got him and his entire team killed.
"Prazza, you'll follow my orders"
"Yes ma'am..."
*Later*
"That damn fool Prazza went on ahead to try to get to Veetor first! His squad got mown down by the heavy mech!"
Not only did he directly disobey his CO, but he got him and his entire team killed.
Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 19 janvier 2012 - 09:08 .
#5
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:10
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
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Were his fears justified or not though?
#6
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:11
CrutchCricket
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Prazza's a ****** who was clearly insubordinate to begin with. Recall Tali's harsh tone. It suggests it's not the first time she's had to deal with this.
TIM is not Shepard's boss. Not the same thing. Still, this will likely derail into another CB argument...
TIM is not Shepard's boss. Not the same thing. Still, this will likely derail into another CB argument...
#7
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:13
MisterJB
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Which was obviously the point.CrutchCricket wrote...
TIM is not Shepard's boss. Not the same thing. Still, this will likely derail into another CB argument...
#8
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:13
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CrutchCricket wrote...
Prazza's a ****** who was clearly insubordinate to begin with. Recall Tali's harsh tone. It suggests it's not the first time she's had to deal with this.
One might question whether this is really Prazza's fault and then not Tali's. After all the game says that she is not a very good leader. Even the Shadow Broker says this.
However you are not really understanding the question being asked.
Was Prazza justified in not trusting Cerberus and thus disobeying his superior?
CrutchCricket wrote...
TIM is not Shepard's boss. Not the same thing. Still, this will likely derail into another CB argument...
Perhaps that was the point? It ocurred to me the other day that the dilemma faced by Prazza is the same one faced by the player. Do you work with Cerberus against a common threat or do you instead cut ties and try to do it your own way despite the danger?
Prazza ran into a heavy mech and he died for it. You are likely to run into something a lot worse, no?
#9
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:14
Shub-Niggurath64
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Prazza was pretty much the only quarian in the game that I actually disliked. He's also referred to as in idiot in-game, and I'm inclined to agree.
#10
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Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:16
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Shub-Niggurath64 wrote...
Prazza was pretty much the only quarian in the game that I actually disliked. He's also referred to as in idiot in-game, and I'm inclined to agree.
The only person who calls Prazza an idiot is Tali and this is the same Tali that stood there impotently while I dragged Veetor away to Cerberus.
Granted, if Prazza hadn't run off then Tali would have had her full squad and that point things might have gotten more tense. Without the advantage of manpower Shepard might not have been able to just wisk Veetor away like that.
Who knows what might have happened...
Then again, if there had been no heavy mechs then Prazza would have grabbed Veetor and probably been welcomed back on the Migrant Fleet as a hero.
#11
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:19
ReallyRue
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I imagine that depends a lot on the Shepard being played, the kind of reputation and morality they have. Though I can't blame him for not trusting Cerberus and a human he's never met, I still think charging in without any caution seems pretty daft.
#13
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:20
Unschuld
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Neither, I'd say.
He tried to be the hero by saving Veetor before the supposed Cerberus threat got to him first (depending on player actions, accurate or not), but in doing so he committed insubordination by distrusting his superior's orders/better judgement. This isn't an excuse to devolve this into a "Tali is a terrible leader" argument either, but it's a decently accurate prediction that there would have been fewer casualties had he listened to Tali's orders (and in that respect, her orders were sound). The heavy mech whipping up some Quarian puree made for a better story though.
He tried to be the hero by saving Veetor before the supposed Cerberus threat got to him first (depending on player actions, accurate or not), but in doing so he committed insubordination by distrusting his superior's orders/better judgement. This isn't an excuse to devolve this into a "Tali is a terrible leader" argument either, but it's a decently accurate prediction that there would have been fewer casualties had he listened to Tali's orders (and in that respect, her orders were sound). The heavy mech whipping up some Quarian puree made for a better story though.
#14
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:20
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ReallyRue wrote...
I imagine that depends a lot on the Shepard being played, the kind of reputation and morality they have. Though I can't blame him for not trusting Cerberus and a human he's never met, I still think charging in without any caution seems pretty daft.
Can we really say he had no caution? It was his sense of caution that wouldn't allow him to wait for Shepard. Shepard's team was serving as a distraction for the other mechs. Those heavies being there were really unfortunate.
Perhaps you're right though and he should have seen them coming or played it safe...
#15
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:21
PMC65
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I would not call Prazza a fool for not trusting Cerberus or a hero for his follow-up actions.
But I can understand how he would question Tali's judgement ...
Shep: "Hey Tali! Remember that gift I got ya!"
Tali:
Prazza:
The first time that I saw that event I felt sorry for the team as that mech killed them, found Miranda's sarcastic remark of "well they wanted to get there first" a little jolting and finally wanted to punch Veetor for allowing it to happen.
But I can understand how he would question Tali's judgement ...
Shep: "Hey Tali! Remember that gift I got ya!"
Tali:
Prazza:
The first time that I saw that event I felt sorry for the team as that mech killed them, found Miranda's sarcastic remark of "well they wanted to get there first" a little jolting and finally wanted to punch Veetor for allowing it to happen.
#17
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:24
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PMC65 wrote...
I would not call Prazza a fool for not trusting Cerberus or a hero for his follow-up actions.
But I can understand how he would question Tali's judgement ...
Shep: "Hey Tali! Remember that gift I got ya!"
Tali:
Prazza:
The first time that I saw that event I felt sorry for the team as that mech killed them, found Miranda's sarcastic remark of "well they wanted to get there first" a little jolting and finally wanted to punch Veetor for allowing it to happen.
So what lesson would you take from this? If instead of mechs it was Reapers and instead of Veetor it was the Collector base, would you rush in blindly because of mistrust or would you hang back and cooperate?
#18
Guest_D3MON-SOVER3IGN_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:24
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They're idiots because as I recall, 6-8 quarians including Prazza was killed. 3-4 were injured. You mean to tell me an entire platoon of Quarian marines couldn't handle 1 HEAVY MECH!!
#19
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:26
Chewin
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Tali called Prazza an idiot. Sure as hell would have like to say the same thing to Tali. And once more to her on Haestrom. Maybe even on the Migtant Fleet. But then again, I would tell that to almost everyone in there.
Modifié par Chewin3, 19 janvier 2012 - 09:27 .
#20
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:26
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D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...
They're idiots because as I recall, 6-8 quarians including Prazza was killed. 3-4 were injured. You mean to tell me an entire platoon of Quarian marines couldn't handle 1 HEAVY MECH!!
There were two heavy mechs, not just one. The quarians destroyed one and were killed by the second one. Two is a lot. I've taken down three before, but then I have control of Shepard. I can tell you that often even against just one heavy mech my not-the-protagonist squadmates don't last long. Much less a pair.
#21
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:28
Shub-Niggurath64
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Really? I didn't know that.Saphra Deden wrote...
D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...
They're idiots because as I recall, 6-8 quarians including Prazza was killed. 3-4 were injured. You mean to tell me an entire platoon of Quarian marines couldn't handle 1 HEAVY MECH!!
There were two heavy mechs, not just one. The quarians destroyed one and were killed by the second one.
#22
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Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:28
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Saphra Deden wrote...
D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...
They're idiots because as I recall, 6-8 quarians including Prazza was killed. 3-4 were injured. You mean to tell me an entire platoon of Quarian marines couldn't handle 1 HEAVY MECH!!
There were two heavy mechs, not just one. The quarians destroyed one and were killed by the second one. Two is a lot. I've taken down three before, but then I have control of Shepard. I can tell you that often even against just one heavy mech my not-the-protagonist squadmates don't last long. Much less a pair.
That's different . over 6 Quarians were killed.They shouldve listened.
EDIT: You know now that i think about it.. He's a fool because he died.
Modifié par D3MON-SOVER3IGN, 19 janvier 2012 - 09:29 .
#23
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:29
CroGamer002
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Chewin3 wrote...
Tali called Prazza an idiot. Sure as hell would have like to say the same thing to Tali. And once more to her on Haestrom. Maybe even on the Migtant Fleet. But then again, I would tell that to almost everyone there.
So how's she an idiot for Prazza disobeying her direct orders?
It's not hers order that got him killed.
Heastrom?
Admiralty board send them there, not she.
She accepted the missions because it's too risky to fail.
Oh my it would fail if she didn't go.
By that I mean those Quarians would have died for nothing.
As for Migrant Fleet?
Eh?
You mean that 600 years thing?
That's more of a writer oversight.
Modifié par Mesina2, 19 janvier 2012 - 09:30 .
#24
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:30
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Shub-Niggurath64 wrote...
Really? I didn't know that.
Yes, there is a corpse of one near an upgrade right next to the shed Veetor is hiding in.
#25
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:31
Drone223
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Prazza concern's with Cerberus can be justified, but he handled the situation poorly
Modifié par Drone223, 20 janvier 2012 - 04:32 .
