Modifié par Ravensword, 19 janvier 2012 - 09:32 .
Prazza, Hero or Fool?
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Guest_Saphra Deden_*
, janv. 19 2012 08:57
#26
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:32
Ravensword
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Oh, look another Paragon-Renegade pissing contest in the making.
Retour en haut
#27
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:32
Shub-Niggurath64
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Oh, I remember now. You can scan it for an upgrade, can't you? Well, I hope this knowledge will lead to a decrease in the "quarians can't fight herpderp" I've been seeing so much on the BSN.Saphra Deden wrote...
Shub-Niggurath64 wrote...
Really? I didn't know that.
Yes, there is a corpse of one near an upgrade right next to the shed Veetor is hiding in.
#28
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:33
Shub-Niggurath64
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Ohai, Raven! Did you know that GMagnum is finally back?Ravensword wrote...
Oh, look another Paragon-Renegade pissing contest in the making.
Modifié par Shub-Niggurath64, 19 janvier 2012 - 09:33 .
#29
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:34
CrutchCricket
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Who says they killed it? Maybe it was being stripped down for parts.Saphra Deden wrote...
Shub-Niggurath64 wrote...
Really? I didn't know that.
Yes, there is a corpse of one near an upgrade right next to the shed Veetor is hiding in.
#30
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:37
PMC65
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Saphra Deden wrote...
PMC65 wrote...
I would not call Prazza a fool for not trusting Cerberus or a hero for his follow-up actions.
But I can understand how he would question Tali's judgement ...
Shep: "Hey Tali! Remember that gift I got ya!"
Tali:
Prazza:
The first time that I saw that event I felt sorry for the team as that mech killed them, found Miranda's sarcastic remark of "well they wanted to get there first" a little jolting and finally wanted to punch Veetor for allowing it to happen.
So what lesson would you take from this? If instead of mechs it was Reapers and instead of Veetor it was the Collector base, would you rush in blindly because of mistrust or would you hang back and cooperate?
Are you asking if I would cooperate with Cerberus or the reapers? If it's Cerberus then that's already been done on more than one occasion. If you are talking about the reapers then Shepard and the two reapers that he/she has talked to has not gone over well. No valentine notes, no champagne ... no negotiations. Just a "don't take this personal Shepard but we are about to hit you with a nice fireball."
As far as rushing in blindly that's pretty much what Shepard and his/her merry band of idiots do all the time. So to call
EDIT: Correction to Prazza
Modifié par PMC65, 19 janvier 2012 - 09:40 .
#31
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:39
Nashiktal
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Fool. If he wanted to mutiny there were betters ways of doing it, like ambushing the cerberus team while their weapons were down, instead of rushing ahead in un-scouted and un-secured territory.
Then again we don't even know if this was a military operation or not, so I guess we can't exactly fault them for tactics entirely.
Then again we don't even know if this was a military operation or not, so I guess we can't exactly fault them for tactics entirely.
#32
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:43
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Shub-Niggurath64 wrote...
Ohai, Raven! Did you know that GMagnum is finally back?Ravensword wrote...
Oh, look another Paragon-Renegade pissing contest in the making.
Ohai, Shub! Yeah, I saw him around. He joined one of the best groups on the BSN.
#33
Guest_Arcian_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:43
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It doesn't matter whether Prazza was a hero or a fool. Prazza is dead.Saphra Deden wrote...
I've seen many people on the forums refer to Prazza as a fool, an idiot. For those of you who don't remember who I'm talking about I'm referring to Tali's subordinate on Freedom's Progress who wouldn't trust Shepard and Cerberus. He took his squad ahead, ignoring Tali's orders, and they were killed by a heavy mech.
Obviously the slaughter of his squad could have been avoided had he waited for Shepard and co.
Was he really an idiot though? I mean remember that he was being asked to cooperate with a dead man and with Cerberus. As you may know Cerberus had some recent and very violent run-ins with the quarians in the past. Almost an entire ship was destroyed.
It would seem that Prazza's priority was to get Veetor and extract him to safety before Shepard got his hands on him and... oh I don't know, turned him over to Cerberus.
What if there had been no heavy mech? Would Prazza still be a fool or would we acknowledge him as a hero too wise to be fooled by Cerberus' tricks?
What about you? Did you blow up the Collector base because you are smart enough not to trust the cigarrette smoking man?
What if there is a "heavy mech" so to speak?
#34
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:44
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Ravensword wrote...
Oh, look another Paragon-Renegade pissing contest in the making.
Oh look another ****post by Ravensword.
CrutchCricket wrote...
Who says they killed it? Maybe it was being stripped down for parts.
It is possible but let's be generous and give the quarians the benefit of the doubt.
Nashiktal wrote...
Fool.
If he wanted to mutiny there were betters ways of doing it, like ambushing the cerberus team while their weapons were down, instead of rushing ahead in un-scouted and un-secured territory.
Well they were going to have to go in there anyway at some point. Using Shepard's team as a distraction while they reached Veetor might have been a good plan. If not for the heavy anyway.
When specifically should he have ambushed Shepard?
PMC65 wrote...
Are you asking if I would cooperate with Cerberus or the reapers?
Are you serious? Of-course I'm asking if you would cooperate with Cerberus. Mainly, I'm asking if you'd save the Collector base to avoid running into a "heavy mech" like Veetor did.
Modifié par Saphra Deden, 19 janvier 2012 - 09:46 .
#35
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:45
CroGamer002
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Arcian wrote...
It doesn't matter whether Prazza was a hero or a fool. Prazza is dead.
But, how much dead?
#36
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:45
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Arcian wrote...
It doesn't matter whether Prazza was a hero or a fool. Prazza is dead.
Yes it does. It is worth understanding the dead to understand their legacy. Or are you against memorials from a philosophical standpoint too?
My post was meant to imply other questions as well.
#37
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:45
Shub-Niggurath64
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Are you talking about Vault 69? Yes, quite a lovely group, that one. I hear a few of its members got banned yesterday; quite the tragic story.Ravensword wrote...
Shub-Niggurath64 wrote...
Ohai, Raven! Did you know that GMagnum is finally back?Ravensword wrote...
Oh, look another Paragon-Renegade pissing contest in the making.
Ohai, Shub! Yeah, I saw him around. He joined one of the best groups on the BSN.
#38
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:47
What a Succulent Ass
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In b4 this becomes a pro/anti-Cerberus thread, as it was clearly designed to be.
#39
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:48
ediskrad327
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hard to know since we barely knew the character
#40
Guest_Arcian_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:49
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What more needs understanding other than the fact that he died while Shepard lived? Whether his actions were heroic or foolish doesn't matter - it got him killed. That is all the wisdom one needs to derive from his "legacy".Saphra Deden wrote...
Arcian wrote...
It doesn't matter whether Prazza was a hero or a fool. Prazza is dead.
Yes it does. It is worth understanding the dead to understand their legacy.
Do not question the dead - remember them.Saphra Deden wrote...
Or are you against memorials from a philosophical standpoint too?
#41
Guest_Aotearas_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:49
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Someone who got everyone under him killed with no success at all in light of an objective that could very easily have turned out less harmful if he at least co-operated with his own superiour is no hero in my books.
Whatever else people might want to call him is irrelevant to me as it is most subjective a judgement everyone will pass, including me, but that much has to be said: letting yourself and comrades die an useless death when other paths were easily available, even if they aren't optimal, is not the kind of action that I'd sanction and when looking at the readily available alternative, co-operating with Cerberus that somehow has the trust of your own operation-leader is definately going to be the lesser of the two worst case scenarios.
You can give it to Prazza he couldn't have possibly known that he and his squad would end up gunned down, but that is irrelevant when we are talking about terms like "hero", which are always post-action titles, not "what-if-everything-went-right" titles.
Is he a hero? Definately not.
Is he a fool/idiot/whatever? I don't care to judge to that extent.
Whatever else people might want to call him is irrelevant to me as it is most subjective a judgement everyone will pass, including me, but that much has to be said: letting yourself and comrades die an useless death when other paths were easily available, even if they aren't optimal, is not the kind of action that I'd sanction and when looking at the readily available alternative, co-operating with Cerberus that somehow has the trust of your own operation-leader is definately going to be the lesser of the two worst case scenarios.
You can give it to Prazza he couldn't have possibly known that he and his squad would end up gunned down, but that is irrelevant when we are talking about terms like "hero", which are always post-action titles, not "what-if-everything-went-right" titles.
Is he a hero? Definately not.
Is he a fool/idiot/whatever? I don't care to judge to that extent.
Modifié par Neofelis Nebulosa, 19 janvier 2012 - 09:52 .
#42
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:50
Chewin
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Mesina2 wrote...
So how's she an idiot for Prazza disobeying her direct orders?
It's not hers order that got him killed.
Why is Prazza called an idiot then?
Exactly, for no deliberate reason. The term "idiot" is used wrongly here.
Tali is just a child that has no particular tactical and team-building skills, nor when it comes to leading a squad. Which is shown both on Freedom's Progress and Haestrom.
As for the event on Migrant Fleet, yeah that plays a part in it too, but it's more the hearing what I'm talking about. They cleary shown no interest in dealing with the situation themselves and easily starts pointing fingers rather than trying to sort it out.
#43
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:50
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His name looks like pizza, he's alright in my book.
#44
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:51
PMC65
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Saphra Deden wrote...
*snip*PMC65 wrote...
Are you asking if I would cooperate with Cerberus or the reapers?
Are you serious? Of-course I'm asking if you would cooperate with Cerberus. Mainly, I'm asking if you'd save the Collector base to avoid running into a "heavy mech" like Veetor did.
I have a Shepard that did just that.
She gave the base to TIM without hesitation and then I was pis5ed that every teammate was against it. ReallY? Whether Bioware considers the decision unwise at the end of the day ... every teammate has the same opinion?When does that ever happen?
But that is for another topic.
#45
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:54
spirosz
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Filament wrote...
His name looks like pizza, he's alright in my book.
#46
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:57
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PMC65 wrote...
I have a Shepard that did just that.
Well, you're consistent. I question the people who label Prazza fool but then also later do the same thing he does when it comes to deciding the fate of the Collector base.
Prazza's tale is a tragic one and telling warning of things to come.
#47
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 09:58
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Arcian wrote...
What more needs understanding other than the fact that he died while Shepard lived?
We should understand the how and why. It's called learning. It's also why we should question the dead instead of only remembering them. History and the examples set by others is an invaluable tool.
You don't want to make the same mistakes, after all.
#48
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 10:00
CroGamer002
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Chewin3 wrote...
Why is Prazza called an idiot then?
Exactly, for no deliberate reason. The term "idiot" is used wrongly here.
He disobeyed order from his superior, which was very valid since they were not equipped for frontal assault and they unsurprisingly got killed for making frontal assault.
Prazza IS an idiot.
Tali is just a child that has no particular tactical and team-building skills, nor when it comes to leading a squad. Which is shown both on Freedom's Progress and Haestrom.
Based on what?
We didn't see her doing anything tactical or team-building on neither of those cases.
Not saying she does have some brilliant skills there, but there's nothing to say she doesn't have some.
As for the event on Migrant Fleet, yeah that plays a part in it too, but it's more the hearing what I'm talking about. They cleary shown no interest in dealing with the situation themselves and easily starts pointing fingers rather than trying to sort it out.
And that makes Tali an idiot, how?
That makes admirals idiots, not her.
#49
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 10:03
PMC65
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Saphra Deden wrote...
PMC65 wrote...
I have a Shepard that did just that.
Well, you're consistent. I question the people who label Prazza fool but then also later do the same thing he does when it comes to deciding the fate of the Collector base.
Prazza's tale is a tragic one and telling warning of things to come.
To be honest, I don't think keeping it or destroying it is going to impact the story at all in ME3. No matter what your Shepard does it will play out just the same regarding Cerberus and whatever technology was there.
But I could be wrong and hope that I am.
#50
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 10:04
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
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PMC65 wrote...
To be honest, I don't think keeping it or destroying it is going to impact the story at all in ME3.
I don't either and considering Cerberus' actions in ME3 I'm sure if it has any effect it will be a bad one, but that's meta-gaming.
Though it's a shame I never thought of the Prazza example in the past.
