Praza was an idiot. He disobeyed his CO and got his squad killed.
Prazza, Hero or Fool?
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, janv. 19 2012 08:57
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#152
Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 01:37
naledgeborn
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Seboist wrote...
naledgeborn wrote...
People (BioWare included) really need to stop making their LIs into pseudo-badasses.
Tali: Mechanic =/= good ground team leader
Liara: Archaeologist =/= good intelligence agent
Tali becomes far more ridiculous in ME3 and Garrus too.
Don't remind me. If I ever want to become president of my people I'll have BW write a story in which I'm a sidekick.
Modifié par naledgeborn, 20 janvier 2012 - 01:37 .
#153
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Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 01:41
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Contradicting yourself.Saphra Deden wrote...
jreezy wrote...
You asked if he accomplished something, not changed something. He definitely accomplished something during his time on Omega.
Um no he didn't. He accomplished a lot of dead bodies. You can say Prazza did the same thing.
#154
Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 01:43
Seboist
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naledgeborn wrote...
Seboist wrote...
naledgeborn wrote...
People (BioWare included) really need to stop making their LIs into pseudo-badasses.
Tali: Mechanic =/= good ground team leader
Liara: Archaeologist =/= good intelligence agent
Tali becomes far more ridiculous in ME3 and Garrus too.
Don't remind me. If I ever want to become president of my people I'll have BW write a story in which I'm a sidekick.
Apparently BW learned that disregarding Garrus' development in ME1 to shoehorn him into becoming a sidekick in ME2 to appease the fanboys was a detriment his character. That's why he got his double facepalm worthy role in ME3.
#155
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 01:43
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jreezy wrote...
Contradicting yourself.
Ahahah, funny, but I don't consider that an "accomplishment" unless your goal is just to kill people. In fact I've argued against Garrus' actions precisely because of all the death he brought about without any actual change or benefit to society. His actions were monstrous.
#156
Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 01:46
AgitatedLemon
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Saphra Deden wrote...
jreezy wrote...
Contradicting yourself.
Ahahah, funny, but I don't consider that an "accomplishment" unless your goal is just to kill people. In fact I've argued against Garrus' actions precisely because of all the death he brought about without any actual change or benefit to society. His actions were monstrous.
So stopping criminals from killing, kidnapping, robbing, or otherwise screwing with the everyday citizens is "monstrous"?
How dare our police force keep the peace, let the murderers, rapists, and thieves run free!
#157
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Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 01:47
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AgitatedLemon wrote...
So stopping criminals from killing, kidnapping, robbing, or otherwise screwing with the everyday citizens is "monstrous"?
Since when were the merc gangs on Omega doing that?
They are the only actual security that Omega has. They don't rob people, they collect rent.
#158
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Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 01:50
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Yeah I'm pretty sure his influence was small but he did accomplish something good. He did get a cool nickname for his actions.Saphra Deden wrote...
jreezy wrote...
Contradicting yourself.
Ahahah, funny, but I don't consider that an "accomplishment" unless your goal is just to kill people. In fact I've argued against Garrus' actions precisely because of all the death he brought about without any actual change or benefit to society. His actions were monstrous.
#159
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Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 01:54
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jreezy wrote...
Yeah I'm pretty sure his influence was small but he did accomplish something good. He did get a cool nickname for his actions.
A cool nickname does not justify murdering that many people.
#160
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Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 01:59
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Since when? Cool nicknames are everything! On a serious, the people he's killed are considered a nuisance to regular citizens.Saphra Deden wrote...
jreezy wrote...
Yeah I'm pretty sure his influence was small but he did accomplish something good. He did get a cool nickname for his actions.
A cool nickname does not justify murdering that many people.
#161
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 02:00
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jreezy wrote...
On a serious, the people he's killed are considered a nuisance to regular citizens.
How do you know? I never met anyone enamoured with Archangel. The only citizens I talked to on Omega seemed pretty content to live with the protection of the Blue Suns.
#162
Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 02:01
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The Eclipse Mercs are all murderers (if they have their suits). There really isn't a justice system on Omega, and they seem to be ignored by Illium Police.
#163
Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 02:01
AgitatedLemon
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Saphra Deden wrote...
AgitatedLemon wrote...
So stopping criminals from killing, kidnapping, robbing, or otherwise screwing with the everyday citizens is "monstrous"?
Since when were the merc gangs on Omega doing that?
They are the only actual security that Omega has. They don't rob people, they collect rent.
You never spoke to him during his recruitment, did you?
Every time you killed a Merc boss, he gave a reason as to why he was trying to take them out.
They were criminals, shaking down the citizens for protection money, not collecting rent.
#164
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 02:03
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AgitatedLemon wrote...
You never spoke to him during his recruitment, did you?
I should just take him at his word? For all I know he was being sarcastic.
Garrus had reasons for doing what he did, I know that, but he didn't really change anything. The mercs ultimately beat him and the status quo was maintained.
AgitatedLemon wrote...
They were criminals, shaking down the citizens for protection money, not collecting rent.
They were no more "shaking down citizens for protection money" than the police do when you are forced to pay taxes.
#165
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Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 02:07
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Because they're a bunch of mercs. Considering what they get up to in other parts of the galaxy I would think their actions aren't any different here.Saphra Deden wrote...
jreezy wrote...
On a serious, the people he's killed are considered a nuisance to regular citizens.
How do you know?
#166
Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 02:08
Seboist
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BlueMagitek wrote...
The Eclipse Mercs are all murderers (if they have their suits). There really isn't a justice system on Omega, and they seem to be ignored by Illium Police.
I think it's only that eclipse sisters subfaction that does that. ME2 gave me the impression these merc groups were just a loose decentralized bunch under one "banner" like the bloods or the crips.
#167
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Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 02:08
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jreezy wrote...
Because they're a bunch of mercs. Considering what they get up to in other parts of the galaxy I would think their actions aren't any different here.
You are ignoring the fact that nobody on Omega calls the mercs anything but useful and good to have around except Garrus.
#168
Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 02:10
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The residents in the Quarantine Zone were hopeful that the 'Suns would get back to providing security after Shep squashed the Vorcha uprising. They do good work.
#170
Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 02:34
PauseforEffect
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Disobeying a superior officer would bring all sorts of hell upon your head. So yes, Prazza was an idiot in that respect as his actions got too many quarians killed and thus Tali was lacking in backup to take back Veetor should Shepard decide to han him to Cerberus.
Between Shepard and the Illusive Man though, the boundaries are clearly drawn in that Shepard is in command of the mission to do as seen fit while the Illusive Man provides funding, information and advice. The Illusive Man does not command, he provides locations. At least officially, though it's clear that he's always trying to manipulate Shepard's decisions to align with his wishes.
Between Shepard and the Illusive Man though, the boundaries are clearly drawn in that Shepard is in command of the mission to do as seen fit while the Illusive Man provides funding, information and advice. The Illusive Man does not command, he provides locations. At least officially, though it's clear that he's always trying to manipulate Shepard's decisions to align with his wishes.
#171
Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 02:46
Nashiktal
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PrimalEden wrote...
Disobeying a superior officer would bring all sorts of hell upon your head. So yes, Prazza was an idiot in that respect as his actions got too many quarians killed and thus Tali was lacking in backup to take back Veetor should Shepard decide to han him to Cerberus.
Between Shepard and the Illusive Man though, the boundaries are clearly drawn in that Shepard is in command of the mission to do as seen fit while the Illusive Man provides funding, information and advice. The Illusive Man does not command, he provides locations. At least officially, though it's clear that he's always trying to manipulate Shepard's decisions to align with his wishes.
Prazza didn't know anything except that...
1. Commander shep, tali's supposedly dead captain is standing before them. (who tali is quite friendly with)
2. Shep is currently working with cerberus, extent unkown, but its there. The same people who slaughtered many quarians on the flotilla.
I understand prazza's problem, but he did not handle anything well at all. He was an idiot, no matter how wrong or right he might have been.
As I said before, he could have ambushed the cerberus team right there from the beginning, or let shep and his squad go first against the drones so they would have been worn down, or at the very least got rid of third party distractions.
And this is just assuming he should have mutinied to begin with, which I disagree with.
#172
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Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 02:48
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Nashiktal wrote...
As I said before, he could have ambushed the cerberus team right there from the beginning, or let shep and his squad go first against the drones so they would have been worn down, or at the very least got rid of third party distractions.
Well he did. Once Shepard's team has run into the mechs is when we hear that Prazza's team has taken the lead. Then they run into the heavy mech.
#173
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Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 02:53
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If I was a quarian and some spoiled little girl with no right to command wanted to work with Cerberus I'd mutiny on her too. I'd save Veetor and be welcomed back to the fleet a hero. Months later Tali would go down as a traitor like her father. My fame would increase.
#174
Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 02:53
Nashiktal
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Nashiktal wrote...
As I said before, he could have ambushed the cerberus team right there from the beginning, or let shep and his squad go first against the drones so they would have been worn down, or at the very least got rid of third party distractions.
Well he did. Once Shepard's team has run into the mechs is when we hear that Prazza's team has taken the lead. Then they run into the heavy mech.
True, but as we saw they didn't seem to pull it off very well.
#175
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Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 02:55
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Nashiktal wrote...
True, but as we saw they didn't seem to pull it off very well.
Well no, they did pull it off well. It was the heavy mech that ended things. If it hadn't been for that they'd have grabbed Veetor and probably been out of there before Shepard could get to them.
Assuming that had happened what do you think would have been Prazza's reception back on the Migrant Fleet?
For my part I'd say they would tell him he was bad to disobey orders, slap him on the wrist, and then keep Tali out of any command posts.
