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"Dragon Age II" Enjoyable, but...


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#1
Deadmac

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"Dragon Age II" Enjoyable, but...
After playing the game three times, once for each archetype, I noticed the BIG storytelling disaster at the end. Regardless about how you deal with dialogue choices, the result of those decisions do not actually matter. "Dragon Age II" is an enjoyable game, but the final act misses the mark entirely. While looking online for information on another game, I came across the perfect analysis for "Dragon Age II's" failure. Out of all the things that went wrong, BioWare's traditional line 'your moral choices matter' does not apply. Why? Everyone you side with is a hypocrite; thus, you are not rewarded for all the effort you injected into the game. If you side with one of the antagonists, their actions justify the perceptions of the other. Here is the irony... When the game brings both mages and templars together, into a force to fight the Knight Commander, taking the middle ground to unite them falls flat. Even though you may have taken the road of gray, the game forces you into taking one specific side. You spend at least thirty hours on strategy, so that it doesn't matter at the end. Its a massive slap in the face.

Article: "When Dragon Age II Fell Apart"
Link: www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/firstperson/9353-When-Dragon-Age-II-Fell-Apart

It is revealed that the
Mages and Templars in question had kidnapped one of Hawke's friends, to use as leverage against Hawke should she interfere with their plot. If Hawke had chosen to befriend the cause of the Mages at this point, that
makes no sense. The Mages might even have approached her for help with their plan. If Hawke had chosen to walk a middle line, incensing the Champion of Kirkwall who had saved the city from an invasion in the previous Act and proven herself a person of virtue also makes no sense.

The end of Dragon Age II was, in my eyes, an unmitigated disaster. The final choice the player is forced to make between Mages and Templars is a false one. If the player sides with the Mages, the Mages utilize blood magic to turn themselves into Abominations in order to fight the Templars, thereby justifying everything Knight-Commander
Meredith had said about why the Mages were dangerous. If the player sides with the Templars, they discover that Meredith is actually insane and wind up having to kill her, which justifies everything the Mages had been saying about the Templars.

So I return to the point where Dragon Age II fell apart, the "Best Served Cold" quest. My Hawke would have been overjoyed to learn of a rebellion against Knight-Commander Meredith by Templars and Mages combined! What an opportunity to not only unseat a maniac who was threatening to destroy the city, but to also forge a new bond of cooperation between the two factions whose rivalry had been at the heart of Kirkwall's tensions!

That would have been a choice that had reflected all the others I had made thus far. Instead, I was rushed into an ending that didn't make any sense based on my choices, and my character. A game that presents us with those choices is obligated to account for and honor them, or it certainly doesn't deserve our critical praise. We're long past the point where anyone thinks it isn't possible to tell stories in videogames, such that half-measures and incomplete narratives ought to impress no one.


Modifié par Deadmac, 19 janvier 2012 - 10:19 .


#2
Fast Jimmy

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I don't know what else to say besides "Yep."

I find many fans of DA2 love the story, in terms of the options and interactions of the companions.
I find many haters of DA2 hate the story, in terms of the options and interactions with the world at large.

Isn't it ironic? Don't you think?

#3
HiroVoid

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I would honestly say that statement highlights Bioware's strength more. It's not so much the great stories that Bioware is known for as much as it's the great character interactions.

Basically, try to imagine a lot of Bioware games without the companions and your interactions with them.

Modifié par HiroVoid, 20 janvier 2012 - 02:23 .


#4
TEWR

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To me, Best Served Cold isn't where the game fell apart.

It just highlights how the game was never really held together in the first place.

#5
Synorin

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

To me, Best Served Cold isn't where the game fell apart.

It just highlights how the game was never really held together in the first place.


This. Nothing to add, nothing to remove. Well said.

#6
Fast Jimmy

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HiroVoid wrote...

I would honestly say that statement highlights Bioware's strength more. It's not so much the great stories that Bioware is known for as much as it's the great character interactions.

Basically, try to imagine a lot of Bioware games without the companions and your interactions with them.


So a game without companion interactions, but which you get all of the good interesting plot and impactful choices? So... the Witcher 2?

#7
Gibb_Shepard

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I really wish i understood why DA2 characters and their interaction was actually liked. I really do. In any game that has a character i despise, i am always able to see why others love him/her and can accept the complexity of the character.

DA2 characters/compaions? I just don't understand. They are so 2 dimensional and boring, i just can't understand it. Add that to the fact that you talk to them maybe one or twice an act, and these "conversations" span the entirety of 10-15 seconds. Just.Don't.Understand.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 20 janvier 2012 - 05:51 .


#8
Deadmac

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Gibb_Shepard wrote...
I really wish i understood why DA2 characters and their interaction was actually liked. I really do. In any game that has a character i despise, i am always able to see why others love him/her and can accept the complexity of the character.

Personality over substance?

#9
Gibb_Shepard

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?

#10
Wulfram

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Best Served Cold is indeed a truly awful quest

#11
GavrielKay

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

To me, Best Served Cold isn't where the game fell apart.

It just highlights how the game was never really held together in the first place.


I agree with this as well.

As a way to spend a few hours now and then wasting time, the game is fine.  As a sequel to DA:O it is kinda sad.

I spend one act doing random quests to make money, one act being unable to avert a Qunari attack and finally a third act being unable to prevent (or really help) a mage uprising.  Hmmph.

#12
Werfer

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i'm starting to think much the same about witcher 2!

#13
Sir JK

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Amusingly, I think Best Served Cold is one of the better quests in the game and certainly the highlight of act 3.

Well worth considering when starting the quest is that hostage taking to ensure neutrality is noble politics 101 IRL. It is the primary method to ensure powerful parties stay out. This is essentially why the kings of France kept half the nobility of France at Versaille... to ensure their powerful relatives did not act against them. Same things in China and Japan for a lot of history.
It would have been prudent if the game had actually presented this to us earlier though, so that we knew that this was common procedure in Kirkwall too.

Anyways. What the quest is to me is adding depth to the mage-templar conflict. It presents a fundamental issue and misunderstanding. Namely that freedom in itself is not a goal for most people. It's what you want after achieving it. Grace just wanted to live happily ever after with Decimus. That's why she wanted to be free. Without Decimus there was no point in freedom.

Thrask thought Meredith was the problem and started to build support to depose her. That once Meredith was deposed he and the mages could work together to build a new better circle. But Grace, the charismatic and fiery leader of the mage underground, is a bubbling cauldron of hate, bitterness and cynicism. Does she want freedom? Yes, but for a reason.

Ultimately Grace is the main actor behind the kidnapping. She convinces Thrask to take the sibling/companion in order to blackmail Hawke to stay away. He has no intention to harm the sibling and once Meredith is gone he will release the prisoner and probably, knowing Thrask, accept whatever judgement you deem fit.
Grace however has a different goal. One she devised once she realised that she could pull the kidnapping off and had plenty of violent support. Does she want Meredith deposed? Well, probably. But not as much as something else.

Namely what is "Best Served Cold" (clues in the name as they say). What she has been planning for possibly as much as 5 years.

Revenge.

Yes, the quest (like much of the game,but particularly act 3) has issues with presentation. It could certainly have used something telling us that hostage taking is common (like the viscount having noble hostages in the keep and perhaps Bran telling us why). But ultimately I like it. It makes perfect sense if you accept that Grace's primary goal is to set up a trap for you rather than forge a strong rebellion.
The quest is about what Hawke wants (join them, stop them or don't care?), about what Thrask wants (what the order should be about), what Alain wants (safety) and what Grace wants (Hawke dead). And why all these goals conflict.

Modifié par Sir JK, 21 janvier 2012 - 10:07 .


#14
Wulfram

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The quest is vaguely sort of OK if Hawke supports the Templars.  But it's just stupidity all the way through from the mages point of view.  Well, actually it starts out pretty good with the conversation with Orsino, but that's tossed out the window when rather than quietly observing the plotters as Orsino told you to, you just march out in plain sight, and then they attack you for absolutely no reason.

Why would you want to take hostages to keep out your most likely ally? 

If you did want to keep them out of the fight, why would you get what must be a significant portion of your support killed attacking him?

When your leader has declared that this whole scheme was a ruse, openly murdered the other leader of your group and turned into an abomination, why would you throw away your life helping her attack the main opposition to the target of your rebellion?

#15
Ponendus

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I cringed the first time I played the ending when I sided with the mages, defeated Meredith and had Orsino on my side, and then all of a sudden he just decided to have a teenage emotional outburst and get himself killed.

It was really quite transparent. It was obvious that for future 'canon' purposes they needed both of them dead or carrying over saves would get complicated. At least that's what I instantly thought, of course its just speculation on my part.

Really cringe-worthy moment though. Completely left-of-field.

#16
leeboi2

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Gibb_Shepard wrote...

?


Your sig made me sad...