147 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

This game is so far off that I'll probably quote myself way down the line and then review the game.

[android654]

Crystal Dynamics set to make a big announcement by midnight, tonight on the east coast[/quote]

[Blacklash93]

LPPrince wrote...

This game is so far off that I'll probably quote myself way down the line and then review the game.

The delays are getting a bit annoying, but I'm sure they're only doing it because they want to do it right.

But yeah, any more delays and I'll just have to assume it's credited to sloppy development. The game is alpha though so I doubt that'll happen.

[Blacklash93]

New Trailer Here 
Release Date: March 5, 2013

Pretty thrilled with what I'm seeing. The new direction for Lara keeps getting more and more compelling.

One gripe, though. Where is she getting those arrows? I see no quiver.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 01 juin 2012 - 11:19 .

[android654]

Who cares where the arrows are coming from. The trailer was amazing, and assures me that the tone will be perfect for what I expected from this game. The only things that sucks is waiting until March 5th, I was hoping for an early January release.

[Druss99]

Yet again it looks pretty awesome. I was kind of hoping they would drop gun play completely given how awful its been in past, looks like its still in, I just hope its handled better.

As far as the quiver goes, it happens in most games. Where does Sonic put all those rings? Where does the Master Chief pull clips from? It's just a technical limitation of the industry.

[Blacklash93]

Druss99 wrote...

Yet again it looks pretty awesome. I was kind of hoping they would drop gun play completely given how awful its been in past, looks like its still in, I just hope its handled better.

As far as the quiver goes, it happens in most games. Where does Sonic put all those rings? Where does the Master Chief pull clips from? It's just a technical limitation of the industry.

Gunplay is now traditional 3rd-person style, I believe. Pretty much just like the bow scene in the trailer. I also remember hearing the devs saying they wanted gunplay to be used sparingly. Nothing innovative, but it's definitely better than what we've gotten before.

The new TR is supposed to be the most down-to-earth, believable, and realistic entry in the series yet. This is not like cartoonish games akin to Sonic or shooters where the action-focus demands players have a ridiculous amount of ammo at their disposal. This is a game about survival and and things like quivers for bows should be common sense.

A better comparison would be a shooter where guns don't have clips with no explanation and thus you can never tell where the bullets are coming from. It's just silly.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 01 juin 2012 - 12:18 .

[Druss99]

^Aye, I got that impression from the little they showed. Hopefully they stick to that and there's no unlimited ammo twin pistols and backflipping. Overall though I'm both impressed and excited.

I get your point, but I suspect its left out for technical reasons but thats going from seeing alot of floating weapons on backs over the years. Could be a story reason too that she has to carry spare arrows in her hand, its unlikely she will be able to just know how to make a quiver, maybe she gets one later letting her carry more arrows. Its still almost a year away from release so it could get added in later.

What if you only have one arrow and have to keep retrieving it? Although that could get highly annoying.

Modifié par Druss99, 01 juin 2012 - 12:49 .

[Dutchess]

The story seems to be a lot different than I had imagined previously. Those armed men didn´t strike me as the inhabitants of the island who lived in that creepy cave. I thought the focus would be on them. Now I have no idea what the story will be about xD (except for Lara surviving of course).

From fall 2012 to March 2013 is quite the delay though. Apparently they needed more than a little extra time to polish things further.

[Seagloom]

Meh. Not feeling that trailer at all. They spent a long time focusing on Lara's suffering to the point it put me off. She is meek and inexperienced, we get it, Crystal Dynamics. No need to continually Joker Fish slap us to drive it home.

I know this is a prequel and Lara is not the action movie badass here she eventually becomes; but it doesn't change how iffy I felt watching that a few minutes in. One of the YouTube comments likened it to Hollywood torture porn. I'm almost inclined to agree. Hope the full game provides a more balanced view than that trailer.

[fchopin]

The trailer goods good but have no idea what kind of game this is, i will need a lot more info before deciding.

[HoonDing]

Seagloom wrote...

Meh. Not feeling that trailer at all. They spent a long time focusing on Lara's suffering to the point it put me off. She is meek and inexperienced, we get it, Crystal Dynamics. No need to continually Joker Fish slap us to drive it home.

I know this is a prequel and Lara is not the action movie badass here she eventually becomes; but it doesn't change how iffy I felt watching that a few minutes in. One of the YouTube comments likened it to Hollywood torture porn. I'm almost inclined to agree. Hope the full game provides a more balanced view than that trailer.

I don't think it is a prequel but rather a complete reboot. 

Core Design Lara already explored Angkor Wat at age 16 and Mayan ruins + Atlantis at age 20.

[Blacklash93]

Seagloom wrote...

Meh. Not feeling that trailer at all. They spent a long time focusing on Lara's suffering to the point it put me off. She is meek and inexperienced, we get it, Crystal Dynamics. No need to continually Joker Fish slap us to drive it home.

I know this is a prequel and Lara is not the action movie badass here she eventually becomes; but it doesn't change how iffy I felt watching that a few minutes in. One of the YouTube comments likened it to Hollywood torture porn. I'm almost inclined to agree. Hope the full game provides a more balanced view than that trailer.

There are plenty of pieces of entertainment that involve weak and inexperienced people being stranded and going through hell to survive and becoming very strong by the end. Suffering and pain are a huge part in what develops characters in those stories. Nothing wrong is showcasing that, especially when you're trying to get the point across that this isn't what you're used to in a familiar franchise.

As an origin story I don't see how this isn't appropriate considering she's eventually going to become the tomb raiding icon she's always been. The developers have already said she's going to become more confident and capable as game progresses.

The story seems to be a lot different than I had imagined previously. Those armed men didn´t strike me as the inhabitants of the island who lived in that creepy cave. I thought the focus would be on them. Now I have no idea what the story will be about xD (except for Lara surviving of course).

According to previews the island basically draws/crashes ships and aircrafts into it and never lets survivors leave. It's not so hard to believe that a band of modern mercs/pirates would have been drawn in sometime recently before Lara's ship. That doesn't contradict the tribal or fantasy elements (the latter which has always been part of TR).

Modifié par Blacklash93, 01 juin 2012 - 02:09 .

[Seagloom]

Blacklash93 wrote...

There are plenty of pieces of entertainment that involve weak and inexperienced people being stranded and going through hell to survive and becoming very strong by the end. Suffering and pain are a huge part in what develops characters in those stories.

Yes, I am aware of that and have read and seen stories of this type throughout my life. Knowing it has been done well elsewhere does not invalidate my impression here. Less so when considering how often I have seen it done badly; *particularly* where lady characters are involved.

Additionally, this was supposed to be a gameplay trailer. *Gameplay*. Not a cutscene showcase that tells me very little I did not already know about this title several months ago. If the most Crystal Dynamics has to show is regurgitated snippets of neophyte Lara being borderline helpless after this long, then it is no wonder this game has been delayed.

HoonDing wrote...

I don't think it is a prequel but rather a complete reboot. 

Core Design Lara already explored Angkor Wat at age 16 and Mayan ruins + Atlantis at age 20.

Yeah, you're right. I stand corrected. Funny thing is I knew this and somewhere along the line stopped thinking of it as a reboot for some reason.

Modifié par Seagloom, 01 juin 2012 - 02:14 .

[Blacklash93]

Seagloom wrote...

Yes, I am aware of that and have read and seen stories of that type throughout my life. Knowing it has been done well elsewhere does not invalidate my impression here. Less so when considering how often I have seen it done badly; *particularly* where lady characters are involved.

Additionally, this was supposed to be a gameplay trailer. *Gameplay*. Not a cutscene showcase that tells me very little I did not already know about this title several months ago. If the most Crystal Dynamics has to show is regurgitated snippets of neophyte Lara after this long, then it is no wonder this game has been delayed.

I'm questioning why you consider it torture porn here. I've been hearing that since the reveal last year and if this weren't a female character, particularly one with a rather... commonly sexualized image like Lara Croft, I don't think that notion would be as strong. CD isn't trying to get anyone's rocks off who may find a woman bleeding out and moaning in pain and fear as something arousing. Nor are they trying to appeal to those who enjoy movies like Saw.

Really the only part I see that can be considered torture porn is her having to burn the cloth she's suspended by and then getting stabbed by a small pike when falling to the ground afterward. But even that wasn't such a big deal seeing as she can still move around pretty well afterward. Otherwise she's just struggling with other characters and the environment.

I'm not saying it can't be done badly. If they do not handle her promised development with appropriate pacing (like keeping her fearful and insecure for 80% of the game and suddenly becoming brave and experienced) then they have failed, certainly. But one trailer isn't indicative of that in any way, as you seem to have acknoledged in your first post with the last sentence.

There was a decent amount of gameplay in there, to be fair, but they did go a bit overboard with cutscenes to give context to the gameplay they were showing. To the point it outweighed gameplay. Doesn't matter though as we'll be seeing actual gameplay at E3 in a few days, anyhow.

And the reason they're showing an inexperienced Lara through everything they've been showing is most likely because of the of the delay and not the other way around. They want to hold off on spoiling later parts because the game is a long way off. The game is alpha, which is content-complete and has been for a few months to my knowledge so that disproves the idea this is all they have to show.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 01 juin 2012 - 02:52 .

[Seagloom]

I do not consider it torture porn. That was a reference to a comment on YouTube. Someone there referred to it as torture porn, and I wrote that I'm almost inclined to agree. Key word here is almost. I was very put off by that trailer. Not enough to turn my back on the game in disgust; but sufficiently to feel disappointed in what I saw. What made it worse is they seem to be focusing on Lara's weakness to the exclusion of all else in their marketing. I'm hoping the end product will show the marketing is as relevant to the game as DAO's new s*** trailer was for that title. Still, reactions are reactions. My brain says wait and see what they have to offer; while my instincts push me away from it.

It's true, there was technically gameplay. Walking around and climbing obstacles mostly. None of it told me anything about how the game actually plays, though. I think we all expect that stuff going into a Lara Croft game. Plus it fed into the overall off putting theme of that video.

I'll see what people say about it when it drops, but my anticipation is seriously being tempered here.

Modifié par Seagloom, 01 juin 2012 - 02:49 .

[LPPrince]

"I hate tombs."-Lara Croft

I laughed hard at that.

[slimgrin]

Seagloom wrote...

Meh. Not feeling that trailer at all. They spent a long time focusing on Lara's suffering to the point it put me off. She is meek and inexperienced, we get it, Crystal Dynamics. No need to continually Joker Fish slap us to drive it home.

I know this is a prequel and Lara is not the action movie badass here she eventually becomes; but it doesn't change how iffy I felt watching that a few minutes in. One of the YouTube comments likened it to Hollywood torture porn. I'm almost inclined to agree. Hope the full game provides a more balanced view than that trailer.

I have to agree with this, they lay it on pretty thick. And she doesn't sound tough enough. They picked the wrong voice actress.

[Blacklash93]

Seagloom wrote...

What made it worse is they seem to be focusing on Lara's weakness to the exclusion of all else in their marketing. I'm hoping the end product will show the marketing is as relevant to the game as DAO's new s*** trailer was for that title. Still, reactions are reactions. My brain says wait and see what they have to offer; while my instincts push me away from it.

It's true, there was technically gameplay. Walking around and climbing obstacles mostly. None of it told me anything about how the game actually plays, though. I think we all expect that stuff going into a Lara Croft game. Plus it fed into the overall off putting theme of that video.

Her weakness pretty much defines her character in the beginning. It makes sense to market that because that's what people are going to see first when they pop in the game and also shows how this is different from previous installments in the series. Lara has only been characterized by her strength in the past, so her weakness in her younger days for this reboot is what's going to be her sole characterization here. No more mythological conspiracies involving her family either (yay!). The devs are excited for it, obviously. Maybe a bit too much, I'll give you seeing as this is their idea of an offical "gameplay" trailer.

But really, it's how she changes and matures that's going to matter and you can't show that without spoiling it. Whether this game succeeds or fails in terms of story is going to rely on that.

But we actually did get a glimpse at the 3rd-person shooting with the bow and melee combat with a climbing axe. I don't think that's been shown before. And plenty of climbing is par for the course in TR. I think we know how those things play 'cause it's not like CD is attempting anything innovative with the gameplay if we're being honest.

And she doesn't sound tough enough. They picked the wrong voice actress.

She's a 21-year-old rich girl. "Tough" isn't an adjective I'd associate with her currently. Though if they're going to go further with this new continuity it might be a good idea to go for a more mature voice in later installments.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 01 juin 2012 - 03:20 .

[android654]

People nitpick at the weirdest things. IT's been explicitly stated several times that Lara at this stage has been a very pampered and well cared for rich girl with no experience of the world outside of her comfortable parameters. This venture to Japan was her way of proving to herself that she could be as lively as her father. Since she's an only child and her mother is dead, living up to her father is her last real way of feeling connected with her family.

So what is a pampered kid supposed to look like when they;re stranded, left for dead and having to fend for themselves? What is she supposed to sound like? How is she supposed to react when mercenaries press a gun to her forehead and she feels like she's going to die?

The point is to rewrite the character from a point that we haven't seen before so she can become the fearless person that we know she later becomes. In order to build her into that, you've got to break her first. That's the point of this game.

[slimgrin]

android654 wrote...

People nitpick at the weirdest things. IT's been explicitly stated several times that Lara at this stage has been a very pampered and well cared for rich girl with no experience of the world outside of her comfortable parameters

I missed that part.

[android654]

^ The very first little Dev Diary they did about their trailer form last year, they explained that she's brand new to all of this and this is her first time on her own and out of her comfort zone.

[Deviija]

I just detest that women characters/protagonists have to be victimized, assaulted, battered, in horrifying circumstances of degradation in order to find 'strength' and the motivation to be 'strong' and fight back. Where is Nathan Drake's origin story, where he's screaming and crying in horrified pain and on the frantic run for his wounded life? Or the countless other iconic male hero leads. Doubtful you'd find any with that kind of set-up, as this is something disturbingly only reserved for women. Why couldn't Lara just be a pampered rich girl that rebels in her teen years, but has the money to back it all up with elite training and a reckless daredevil swagger? Nope, has to find her independence and strength through victimhood.

[android654]

Deviija wrote...

I just detest that women characters/protagonists have to be victimized, assaulted, battered, in horrifying circumstances of degradation in order to find 'strength' and the motivation to be 'strong' and fight back. Where is Nathan Drake's origin story, where he's screaming and crying in horrified pain and on the frantic run for his wounded life? Or the countless other iconic male hero leads. Doubtful you'd find any with that kind of set-up, as this is something disturbingly only reserved for women. Why couldn't Lara just be a pampered rich girl that rebels in her teen years, but has the money to back it all up with elite training and a reckless daredevil swagger? Nope, has to find her independence and strength through victimhood.

But we do have that for Nathan. He ran away and was homeless as a child. He got in over his head, was hunted donw and almost killed. His saving grace was having someone else come, save him, and teach him everything he knows. If there was no Sully Marlowe would've killed 14 year old Nathan.

Most heroes we see in fiction, we see them at the height of their prowess. But most heroes, the most memorable ones for me anyway, are the ones that are broken down and are forced to rebuild themselves to overcome thier circumstances.

Rebel against what? She's someone who's lived her whole life pampered with a father whom she loves and a comfortable home life. There's no need or reason for her to rebel and gain skills to traverse the wilderness at that point. She needs to be broken down in order to become a completely different person that she needs to be in order to survive. This isn't because she's a woman, but because she's someone ill equipped to survive in the situation she got herself into. The same would be needed if Batman was in this situation before he learned all of his skills

So yes, Lara should be broken because she's dropped in a land that is completely alien to her and she's forced to deal with situations and forces she doesn't have the skills to deal with.

[fchopin]

android654 wrote...

Deviija wrote...

I just detest that women characters/protagonists have to be victimized, assaulted, battered, in horrifying circumstances of degradation in order to find 'strength' and the motivation to be 'strong' and fight back. Where is Nathan Drake's origin story, where he's screaming and crying in horrified pain and on the frantic run for his wounded life? Or the countless other iconic male hero leads. Doubtful you'd find any with that kind of set-up, as this is something disturbingly only reserved for women. Why couldn't Lara just be a pampered rich girl that rebels in her teen years, but has the money to back it all up with elite training and a reckless daredevil swagger? Nope, has to find her independence and strength through victimhood.

But we do have that for Nathan. He ran away and was homeless as a child. He got in over his head, was hunted donw and almost killed. His saving grace was having someone else come, save him, and teach him everything he knows. If there was no Sully Marlowe would've killed 14 year old Nathan.

Most heroes we see in fiction, we see them at the height of their prowess. But most heroes, the most memorable ones for me anyway, are the ones that are broken down and are forced to rebuild themselves to overcome thier circumstances.

Rebel against what? She's someone who's lived her whole life pampered with a father whom she loves and a comfortable home life. There's no need or reason for her to rebel and gain skills to traverse the wilderness at that point. She needs to be broken down in order to become a completely different person that she needs to be in order to survive. This isn't because she's a woman, but because she's someone ill equipped to survive in the situation she got herself into. The same would be needed if Batman was in this situation before he learned all of his skills

So yes, Lara should be broken because she's dropped in a land that is completely alien to her and she's forced to deal with situations and forces she doesn't have the skills to deal with.

What you say sounds good but what do you mean by broken?