36 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

While the Hero of Ferelden can disappear into the Eluvian with Morrigan at the Dragonborn Wastes, it seems as though The Warden resurfaced (possibly with Morrigan and his son) to Denerim at least seven years after the end of the Fifth Blight (if King Alistair and Bann Tegan were being honest about The Warden's presence in Denerim). What I wonder is, why would The Warden return?

Since The Warden is referenced being in Denerim, I'd imagine that the reason has to be "universal" for all The Wardens. The Warden could be the new Teyrn of Gwaren, the new Bann of the Alienage, the new Paragon of Orzammar, or he could have disappeared with Morrigan into the Eluvian, but what universal reason could have brought the former Warden-Commander of Ferelden back to Denerim? I doubt that, if The Warden romanced Morrigan and gave up everything to reunite with her, that he would abandon Morrigan and his son.

Since I'd imagine the Orlesian Warden would be stepping into the place of The Warden if the Ultimate Sacrifice was done, I'd imagine that the reason for the Grey Warden's presence in the capital of Ferelden might have something to do with Ferelden. Perhaps it might have to do with Morrigan's plans, either opposing it if The Warden opposed her during Witch Hunt, or supporting it if he romanced her and abandoned his authority and power as the Warden-Commander to pursue a life with her and his son?

[Asch Lavigne]

They make a few references to the Warden being here or there through out the game.

The scene with King Alistair would've happened before WH anyways. They mess up the timeline I think too I mean how else is Anders in Amaranthine and Kirkwall at the same time?

And no plot flags are carried from WH so no one's Warden went through the eluvian.

[JoeLaTurkey]

I've given up trying to understand the timeline

[Funkjoker]

LobselVith8 wrote...

While the Hero of Ferelden can disappear into the Eluvian with Morrigan at the Dragonborn Wastes, it seems as though The Warden resurfaced (possibly with Morrigan and his son) to Denerim at least seven years after the end of the Fifth Blight (if King Alistair and Bann Tegan were being honest about The Warden's presence in Denerim). What I wonder is, why would The Warden return?

Since The Warden is referenced being in Denerim, I'd imagine that the reason has to be "universal" for all The Wardens. The Warden could be the new Teyrn of Gwaren, the new Bann of the Alienage, the new Paragon of Orzammar, or he could have disappeared with Morrigan into the Eluvian, but what universal reason could have brought the former Warden-Commander of Ferelden back to Denerim? I doubt that, if The Warden romanced Morrigan and gave up everything to reunite with her, that he would abandon Morrigan and his son.

Since I'd imagine the Orlesian Warden would be stepping into the place of The Warden if the Ultimate Sacrifice was done, I'd imagine that the reason for the Grey Warden's presence in the capital of Ferelden might have something to do with Ferelden. Perhaps it might have to do with Morrigan's plans, either opposing it if The Warden opposed her during Witch Hunt, or supporting it if he romanced her and abandoned his authority and power as the Warden-Commander to pursue a life with her and his son?

The Warden is still the WC as of Dragon Age II and not "former".

And yeah, there could be problems arising or whatever. I myself wasn't very happy to hear those lines from Alistair, especially because they are so vague [which are many things in DAII] you can think anything about it. They drank some good ale, "uncle" Alistair gets to know the GB, etc etc..

It's very likely that we get to know more once company awesome releases either one story DLC for DAII (which should NOT deal with the Warden/Morrigan) or DA3. I hope for the latter.

The Warden needs to return as playable character. Reason: No solid end with Morrigan (for many players). New protagonists don't have the right so settle anything with Morrigan whatsoever unless the Warden's dead or doesn't care.

Edit: It's also possible that the supposed meeting never happens. Plans may change. The vagueness is horrible.

Modifié par Jean-Funk Van Damme, 20 janvier 2012 - 05:26 .

[LobselVith8]

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

The Warden is still the WC as of Dragon Age II and not "former".

I'd imagine a new Warden-Commander would be elected if The Warden disappeared for years (assuming that The Warden left with Morrigan into the Eluvian and didn't resurface for at least seven years). I inferred the ending of Witch Hunt to be that The Warden gave up everything to reunite with Morrigan (assuming that The Warden chooses to be with Morrigan, of course).

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

And yeah, there could be problems arising or whatever. I myself wasn't very happy to hear those lines from Alistair, especially because they are so vague [which are many things in DAII] you can think anything about it. They drank some good ale, "uncle" Alistair gets to know the GB, etc etc..

I can understand the frustration over the fact that the reference is vague. I'm trying to be optimistic and assume that there was a purpose to the reference made by King Alistair and Bann Tegan, besides referencing the protagonist of Origins.

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

It's very likely that we get to know more once company awesome releases either one story DLC for DAII (which should NOT deal with the Warden/Morrigan) or DA3. I hope for the latter.

The Warden needs to return as playable character. Reason: No solid end with Morrigan (for many players). New protagonists don't have the right so settle anything with Morrigan whatsoever unless the Warden's dead or doesn't care.

Edit: It's also possible that the supposed meeting never happens. Plans may change. The vagueness is horrible.

I would hope for some clarification in why The Warden was waiting to meet with the ruler of Ferelden, especially if he is with Morrigan and his child. And I wonder how the Chantry would respond, since Morrigan is an apostate and his child is possibly a mage (since it's made clear in Witch Hunt that the Chantry puts a bounty on her if The Warden isn't alive), not to mention that The Warden might be a mage as well.

[Funkjoker]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'd imagine a new Warden-Commander would be elected if The Warden disappeared for years (assuming that The Warden left with Morrigan into the Eluvian and didn't resurface for at least seven years). I inferred the ending of Witch Hunt to be that The Warden gave up everything to reunite with Morrigan (assuming that The Warden chooses to be with Morrigan, of course).

Yeah, well, nothing in DAII suggests that. See the codex entry about the hero of Ferelden or the first one dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex:_Notes_%28Dragon_Age_II%29 <- there.

We need to think about what a WC does: I do not think that he'll sit and wait for decisions to make. Like Duncan, he'll be out searching for recruits, cleaning the Deep Roads, making some more god babys (^^), etc. That means that the Grey Wardens are probably aware of the fact that some of them, even their commanders, may be out for longer periods of time to do whatever is necessary for the Order.

We also learn after Awakening that the Warden never returns to Vigil's Keep. This may have severeal reasons: There is no blight anymore in Ferelden and he might have far more important things to do (^) than staying in the Keep. (Love RS, Darkspawn, etc). Also he already has his commanders dealing with minor issues. He'll be around once major issues arise.

I can understand the frustration over the fact that the reference is vague. I'm trying to be optimistic and assume that there was a purpose to the reference made by King Alistair and Bann Tegan, besides referencing the protagonist of Origins.

Hmm, maybe it should have been left out; it doesn't serve any purpose (only a bit for the player) because Hawke never met the Warden, so he wouldn't care with whom Alistair met anyway.

I would hope for some clarification in why The Warden was waiting to meet with the ruler of Ferelden, especially if he is with Morrigan and his child. And I wonder how the Chantry would respond, since Morrigan is an apostate and his child is possibly a mage (since it's made clear in Witch Hunt that the Chantry puts a bounty on her if The Warden isn't alive), not to mention that The Warden might be a mage as well.

I do not think the Warden cares whether the Chantry knows about it or not; with the mage-templar fighting going all around the word, they have much bigger problems than that.

You are right: I also want more clarification. I'd like to see a full fledged expansion playing as The Warden again, and if BioWare wants to bury him (I'd like to play him more) he should at least get a satisfying adventure ending with Morrigan of course. There's a simple solution for non-warden players or new-protagonist-players: Morrigan does sth bad, player needs to stop her, you get the idea.

Modifié par Jean-Funk Van Damme, 20 janvier 2012 - 06:58 .

[Asch Lavigne]

They're not going to bring back the Warden as a playable character. Not everyone's Warden is alive, not everyone did the whole Morrigan thing, some people used Loghain or Alistair, and not everyone wants their Warden back.

And you don't need the Warden to bring back Morrigan's story. She just used the Warden to get the baby, we still don't know what she wants it for. It could totally have something to do with an event a new protagonist gets caught up in, doesn't have to be the Warden.

But I'm willing to bet that they're going to pull the "Morrigan has an OGB no matter what, if you didn't do the ritual she got it some other way" card

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 20 janvier 2012 - 07:17 .

[LobselVith8]

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

Yeah, well, nothing in DAII suggests that. See the codex entry about the hero of Ferelden or the first one dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex:_Notes_%28Dragon_Age_II%29 <- there.

We need to think about what a WC does: I do not think that he'll sit and wait for decisions to make. Like Duncan, he'll be out searching for recruits, cleaning the Deep Roads, making some more god babys (^^), etc. That means that the Grey Wardens are probably aware of the fact that some of them, even their commanders, may be out for longer periods of time to do whatever is necessary for the Order.

We also learn after Awakening that the Warden never returns to Vigil's Keep. This may have severeal reasons: There is no blight anymore in Ferelden and he might have far more important things to do (^) than staying in the Keep. (Love RS, Darkspawn, etc). Also he already has his commanders dealing with minor issues. He'll be around once major issues arise.

There's a difference between returning to Vigil's Keep, and being AWOL for half a decade. I'm only assuming that The Warden has been gone that long, so it's possible Morrigan and The Warden could have returned since then. If the Hero of Ferelden has been gone for so many years, I'd assume that it's possible that another person could be appointed to become the new Warden-Commander, and the letter from Avernus (that Hawke can read) doesn't specify who the Commander of the Grey is.
 
In Witch Hunt, The Warden can make it clear that he had people watching Flemeth's hut for activity, and that's why he knew someone had come to check things out. Not hearing one word from the Warden-Commander for half a decade might have someone take control of the reigns. It's only speculation, since we really have no idea how long the Commander of the Grey has been gone with Morrigan. I'm assuming, however, that Morrigan has bigger plans than being the Arlessa of Amaranthine.

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

Hmm, maybe it should have been left out; it doesn't serve any purpose (only a bit for the player) because Hawke never met the Warden, so he wouldn't care with whom Alistair met anyway.

If the comment in "King Alistair" ends up being meaningless, except to provide a wink and nod to The Warden, I'd agree.

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

I do not think the Warden cares whether the Chantry knows about it or not; with the mage-templar fighting going all around the word, they have much bigger problems than that.

I wasn't addressing the Grey Wardens as an organization, but the possible response from the Chantry and the Order of Templars. Morrigan may still be viewed as an apostate by the Chantry. Whether they would risk sending templars out to capture her and her son, if the two are in the company of the Hero of Ferelden, is another matter entirely. I'm assuming that The Warden used his influence to keep the templars from trying to hunt her down (during the events that transpired in Witch Hunt), since it's only for the Orlesian Warden that a bounty is placed on Morrigan because they "suspect" her of being a blood mage.

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

You are right: I also want more clarification. I'd like to see a full fledged expansion playing as The Warden again, and if BioWare wants to bury him (I'd like to play him more) he should at least get a satisfying adventure ending with Morrigan of course. There's a simple solution for non-warden players or new-protagonist-players: Morrigan does sth bad, player needs to stop her, you get the idea.

I don't imagine Bioware is going back to a silent protagonist, even though I prefer it to a voiced protagonist. I liked The Warden.

As for Morrigan, it would be a big mistake for the developers to reduce Morrigan to being a Big Bad for the player to kill.

[Funkjoker]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

They're not going to bring back the Warden as a playable character. Not everyone's Warden is alive, not everyone did the whole Morrigan thing, some people used Loghain or Alistair, and not everyone wants their Warden back.

And you don't need the Warden to bring back Morrigan's story. She just used the Warden to get the baby, we still don't know what she wants it for. It could totally have something to do with an event a new protagonist gets caught up in, doesn't have to be the Warden.

But I'm willing to bet that they're going to pull the "Morrigan has an OGB no matter what, if you didn't do the ritual she got it some other way" card

1) All I know is that there's a small chance to it. We'll see, but I won't be surprised if it doesn't happen. I adressed the other sentence several times; the thing is, for those Wardens whose story is not over, there is no proper conclusion. BioWare doesn't like proper endings nowadays: Revan, Hawke, Warden (sacrifice ending: import is possible, however you play as DEAD warden instead of importing choices and playing as Orlesian Warden) etc.

2) You need the Warden to settle things with Morrigan if he's in a relationship with her and made a baby with her. Otherwise, you can always use a new protagonist, however leaving the old one without a proper ending isn't doing him any justice. This applies to any story and not specifically to DA

3) Or they - for the first time - stick to player's choices and don't pull such cards.. we'll see.

[Funkjoker]

LobselVith8 wrote...

There's a difference between returning to Vigil's Keep, and being AWOL for half a decade. I'm only assuming that The Warden has been gone that long, so it's possible Morrigan and The Warden could have returned since then. If the Hero of Ferelden has been gone for so many years, I'd assume that it's possible that another person could be appointed to become the new Warden-Commander, and the letter from Avernus (that Hawke can read) doesn't specify who the Commander of the Grey is.
 
In Witch Hunt, The Warden can make it clear that he had people watching Flemeth's hut for activity, and that's why he knew someone had come to check things out. Not hearing one word from the Warden-Commander for half a decade might have someone take control of the reigns. It's only speculation, since we really have no idea how long the Commander of the Grey has been gone with Morrigan. I'm assuming, however, that Morrigan has bigger plans than being the Arlessa of Amaranthine.

One can assume anything; it's also possible that he sends one or two letters a month to his commanders seeing how things are going. No, I'm going with the games: As there is not the slightest indication of a new WC, we can safely say he's still the WC.

Yeah, you're right about the Arlessa ^.^. I do think that we need some good game about her plans!

I wasn't addressing the Grey Wardens as an organization, but the possible response from the Chantry and the Order of Templars. Morrigan may still be viewed as an apostate by the Chantry. Whether they would risk sending templars out to capture her and her son, if the two are in the company of the Hero of Ferelden, is another matter entirely. I'm assuming that The Warden used his influence to keep the templars from trying to hunt her down (during the events that transpired in Witch Hunt), since it's only for the Orlesian Warden that a bounty is placed on Morrigan because they "suspect" her of being a blood mage.

I'm not really aware of the Chantry actually knowing Morrigan to be out anywhere. There is the possibility (with a mod) to attack Morrigan after the tower of the Mages because you can expose her as being an apostate. However there's no indication in the game that the Chantry is aware of Morrigan.

As for Morrigan, it would be a big mistake for the developers to reduce Morrigan to being a Big Bad for the player to kill.

Definitely! There are some users here who'll be very pedantic about what happens to Morrigan and maybe the Warden.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

The timeline isn't that bad, depending on when Witch Hunt occurs in the timeline. From DA to the end of awakening is probably about 2 years. Witch Hunt is suggested to take place a few years later. Give or take, that would not put Witch Hunt that far off from year 7. It could be possible that Alistair might be on his way back to meet up with a Warden who is about to leave to go look for Morrigan.

[LobselVith8]

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

One can assume anything; it's also possible that he sends one or two letters a month to his commanders seeing how things are going. No, I'm going with the games: As there is not the slightest indication of a new WC, we can safely say he's still the WC.

Yeah, you're right about the Arlessa ^.^. I do think that we need some good game about her plans!

How would The Warden send letters through the Eluvian? We aren't certain how long Morrigan needs to spend on the other side of the Eluvian, and apparently their son is on the other side already. It could be a few days, a few months, or even a few years.

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

I'm not really aware of the Chantry actually knowing Morrigan to be out anywhere. There is the possibility (with a mod) to attack Morrigan after the tower of the Mages because you can expose her as being an apostate. However there's no indication in the game that the Chantry is aware of Morrigan.

Actually, there is. Anders makes reference to Morrigan in Dragon Age 2 as an apostate (when he refers to "two mages" saving the world from the Blight, and addresses that one of them was an apostate). In Witch Hunt, the Orlesian Warden can read about the fact that a bounty was placed on Morrigan because the templars "suspect" that Morrigan might be a blood mage.

[Funkjoker]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

The timeline isn't that bad, depending on when Witch Hunt occurs in the timeline. From DA to the end of awakening is probably about 2 years. Witch Hunt is suggested to take place a few years later. Give or take, that would not put Witch Hunt that far off from year 7. It could be possible that Alistair might be onhis way back to meet up with a Warden who is about to leave to go look for Morrigan.

Quote from wiki: "Nearly two and a half years have passed since the Archdemon's death, and
word has reached the Wardens that Morrigan has returned to Ferelden."

LobselVith8 wrote...
How would The Warden send letters through the Eluvian? We aren't certain how long Morrigan needs to spend on the other side of the Eluvian, and apparently their son is on the other side already. It could be a few days, a few months, or even a few years.

We can only assume. As a matter of fact, I'm not really sure about people being that excited to hear about Morrigan in the future compared to the time Witch Hunt was announced..

Actually, there is. Anders makes reference to Morrigan in Dragon Age 2 as an apostate (when he refers to "two mages" saving the world from the Blight, and addresses that one of them was an apostate). In Witch Hunt, the Orlesian Warden can read about the fact that a bounty was placed on Morrigan because the templars "suspect" that Morrigan might be a blood mage.

Nice! I didn't get that because I never played as OW.

Modifié par Jean-Funk Van Damme, 20 janvier 2012 - 08:55 .

[TEWR]

I figure Bann Teagan and Alistair just using a clever political maneuver to shield the fact that the Hero of Ferelden has disappeared -- assuming he went through the Eluvian -- because of the implications that might bring, like appearing even weaker than before since the HoF is pretty much a military genius and morale booster.

Or Bioware got sloppy.

The latter's probably more likely.

[Sir JK]

Actually Lobsel, the warden is references as "should be in Denerim" which says nothing about wether he she is. This could mean that Alistair/Teagan sent a letter for the warden that never reached it's destination but that they are unaware of the warden's fate and thus won't realise he/she is missing until they come back to Denerim.

Allthough I agree that by year six they ought to have noticed. There's at least a one and a half year gap between year six and Witchhunt. Though it's possible, given that letters travel no faster than foot or ship and warden-commanders are busy people (just like kings are).

[Melca36]

It was once said by one of the writers that epilogue dialogues should be taken as rumor only.

And I will never take Witchhunt's ending seriously.

[Gervaise]

Here's a suggestion - When the Warden went off looking for Morrigan he said to Alistair "This may take a while and I won't necessarily be able to contact you. If I haven't found her at the end of (say) 3 years, I'll come back to Denerim." Bear in mind that the Warden knows Morrigan doesn't want to be found and had an excellent teacher in Flemeth in how to avoid be tracked in the wilds. Originally at the end of DAO Morrigan was said to have been heading across the Frostbacks, so could have been literally anywhere. The sighting at Flemeth's hut might not necessarily turn out to be her.

So at the time Alistair is in Kirkwall, he has heard nothing from the Warden but is assuming that unless dead, the Warden will shortly be returning to Denerim. When he gets there, he finds the Warden has not returned and is then left with a mystery - did the Warden find Morrigan or not?

Even if the Warden didn't go into the Eluvian with Morrigan, bearing in mind that many did not romance her to the end or were female, they could still have disappeared after the events of Witch Hunt and no one knows why or even that it had nothing to do with Morrigan.

[Fast Jimmy]

JoeLaTurkey wrote...

I've given up trying to understand the timeline

Best suggestion on this thread.

[Ponendus]

Has someone actually done a timeline? I mean, posted one on the internet somewhere so we can see how all the events line up? Sounds like a challenge...

[Fallstar]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

JoeLaTurkey wrote...

I've given up trying to understand the timeline

Best suggestion on this thread.

Yes. I would honestly like one of the devs to just explain the inconsistencies, or just admit they wanted Anders in the game  from Act 1 even though he was gallivanting around Amaranthine at the time, and that they made that jump for the sake of DA:2.

[Patchwork]

Our warden could easily still be a commander in the grey wardens without being The Warden Commander of Ferelden. I highly doubt the hero of the blight is going to get a demotion. It's an empty title without something or someones to be the command of.

It's more likely imo that when the warden disappears/goes back to being queen or king/leaves for Antiva or whatever the Leliana variation is the First Warden quietly appoints some other commander to oversee Ferelden and the arldom. Leaving our warden alone to do whatever.

Modifié par Ser Bard, 21 janvier 2012 - 06:45 .

[Get Magna Carter]

I believe Alistair claimed that the Warden was expected to be returning to Denerim but there was no statement of the Warden actually arriving.
Alistair could have been lying as an excuse to leave before the explosions started or he could have been referring to false rumours.
...or it could have been before or simultaneous to Witch Hunt (I was never clear on the timeline)
..or....there could be a lot going on that we don't know about which may be referenced in future products

[Get Magna Carter]

I suspect Varric has been fiddling around with his account of the timeline for dramatic effect (It would explain why Fenris referred to Isabella's ship as non-existent after she acquired one)

[DPSSOC]

OP keep in mind that this game completely ignores that one of your companions should be dead. Both Justice and Anders can die in Awakening and DA2 just completely ignores it, you're giving the series far more credit with regards to continuity than it's due.

[WhiteKnyght]

DPSSOC wrote...

OP keep in mind that this game completely ignores that one of your companions should be dead. Both Justice and Anders can die in Awakening and DA2 just completely ignores it, you're giving the series far more credit with regards to continuity than it's due.

Except for the fact that Justice is a spirit. Killing the corpse he's squatting in doesn't kill him. And if he or Anders is killed, he can always move into Anders' body and resurrect him. Case in point, Wynne during Uldred's BS. And Evangeline in Asunder. If one spirit can do it, why not another?

Before you bring up Wynne's possible death in Origins. We don't know everything about spirit resurrection, so it's possible that as long as Wynne or Evangeline has the spirit inside them, they are immortal. Meaning Anders might well be alive in DA3 even if you shanked him in the kidney during The Last Straw.