1446 réponses à ce sujet

[Adhin]

Ehh Boarderlands didn't level weapons up from use. You got 'new' guns entirely every 10 minutes. Though I could see it being a proficiency like system based off use. That or everytime you level up you get a point to put towards a weapon type to upgrade it. So far they haven't been to big on 'use it to make it better'. And swapping stuff around a lot could be detrimental to that.

I kinda hope it's based off your char lvls getting weapon upgrade points.

[incinerator950]

daqs wrote...

Adhin wrote...

That all said I wasn't expecting 10 levels worth, that almost sounds as ridiculous as ME1 system of 12 lvls for most stuff. Though it makes me wonder how we upgrade them. Mods I get, we find/buy them and we can sell stuff so, selling off old mods when we get upgrades makes sense. But that wouldn't work for the whole category upgrades...

ME1 also had ten levels of upgrades for stuff, I-X.

I'm amazed Shepard didn't have level X pens.

[Adhin]

Hahaha no kidding, or some Spectre Pens XII. Swear everything in that game went up to level 12. That's kind of my point though yeah? I mean ME2 they where trying to get away from the useless flood in items they created in ME2 but... 10 levels? Least its not a flood of items its always just the 'Avenger' or the Vindicator. Just end up being able to upgrade it 10 times is all.

From what we know with upgrades doesn't look like we'll get 3-4 version of a damage mod, all of which had 12 versions... I mean really who needed 36-48 versions of something that boosts your dmg by %?

[crimzontearz]

incinerator950 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...
Alright, back on topic.....  Weapons.
I've been thinking about it and I think it would be neat if they introduced a few weapons that use the old overheat system from ME1 along side the thermal clip using weapons.

i would LOVE the iconic weapon of ME1 to return to my gameplay in ME3, the spectre pistol. i wouldnt need any options for modding either. just give me the plain ole overheat pistol, and ill agree that enemy protections are a wonderfull addition to ME.

now that marksman is back too, ill blow my underwear out if i ever got to play another game with that combination.

i would think the devs could easily get bored and nostalgic, and bring out a ME1 style overheat weapons pack for DLC. i see no reason why not after maybe 6 months of the game being out.

Then realize a second time ME's weapon system was even more boring?

whatever you want to label ME1s weapons, id still take that over illogical, unimersive, ununique, elementary ME2 style weapons.

my weapons in ME1 definately overheated, so my gameplay wasnt "ruined by choice."

...Logically increasing Firepower by taking the lore that was already established in the codex, upgrading it, and actually applying it to gameplay, is illogical? 

You don't imerse yourself in the ME 1 combat, you kill someone, you spray down until you over heat, and then spam defenses and medigel because you took a sniper or a rocket to the face.  

Mass Effect 2's weapons were actually designed to be different, not over a dozen of the same reskinned weapons that any kid  with a hex editor can change the color and up the stats by 20 to a hundred.  

alright

1: the codex NEVER specifies that the thermal clipsincreaese firepower but only (apparently) the rate of fire in the long run assuming you spam your gun till it overheats.

2: without that specific qualifier or any other similar ones the heatsink weapons make ZERO sense and feel shoehorned in to make the game feel more like GOW.

As I said many times before, my stepson is a US marine and a gamer (he actually just got back here in NC with the rest if 1/6 bravo)....I asked him which weapon would a soldier want (ME1 or ME2 style) and he said "**** NO" to the thermal clips weapons. They make no sense.

[Adhin]

Yeah that's only because you could make guns not overheat in ME1. Should try asking him again with guns that overheat and take 3-4 seconds to cooldown. You can reload an M4 from empty faster then that, and the thermal clips are smaller and lighter then an M4/16 mag. With how fast you just slap a new sync in as it pops out the old one? I don't know anyone in the military who would take the cooling system over a second of sync swap.

Only real exception I see to that would be the Sniper Rifles again that're single shot in ME2. But thats an awkward gameplay thing they tried to go for over actual convenience. I know they went to syncs for a gameplay reason, even after they tried a button-press force cool to try and get the same rhyme to combat.

If you compare a Spectre AR with proper mods that can't overheat? Sure there isn't a soldier in the world who wouldn't prefer that over ME2 system. But using your own argument over it being a gameplay thing - that's all it was. A broken gameplay issue. Lore wise the guns overheated all the damn time, constantly. Lore vs Lore the syncs make more sense from a military perspective.

If anything its crazier to think it took them this long to come up with a quick-swap sync system. Or that there isn't some kind of belt-pack that helps cool spent syncs so you always have a fresh supply with out having to pick ones up.

The idea of expendable syncs seems more like a waste in ME then anything. Some kind of quick-swap, re-useable sync that cools quicker outside of the gun via other means would seem like the most logical step. You'd be cutting down your 'cooling' point via the swap and allowing it to cool down elsewhere. You'd only really need 3-5 syncs really to cycle though.

[incinerator950]

crimzontearz wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...
Alright, back on topic.....  Weapons.
I've been thinking about it and I think it would be neat if they introduced a few weapons that use the old overheat system from ME1 along side the thermal clip using weapons.

i would LOVE the iconic weapon of ME1 to return to my gameplay in ME3, the spectre pistol. i wouldnt need any options for modding either. just give me the plain ole overheat pistol, and ill agree that enemy protections are a wonderfull addition to ME.

now that marksman is back too, ill blow my underwear out if i ever got to play another game with that combination.

i would think the devs could easily get bored and nostalgic, and bring out a ME1 style overheat weapons pack for DLC. i see no reason why not after maybe 6 months of the game being out.

Then realize a second time ME's weapon system was even more boring?

whatever you want to label ME1s weapons, id still take that over illogical, unimersive, ununique, elementary ME2 style weapons.

my weapons in ME1 definately overheated, so my gameplay wasnt "ruined by choice."

...Logically increasing Firepower by taking the lore that was already established in the codex, upgrading it, and actually applying it to gameplay, is illogical? 

You don't imerse yourself in the ME 1 combat, you kill someone, you spray down until you over heat, and then spam defenses and medigel because you took a sniper or a rocket to the face.  

Mass Effect 2's weapons were actually designed to be different, not over a dozen of the same reskinned weapons that any kid  with a hex editor can change the color and up the stats by 20 to a hundred.  

alright

1: the codex NEVER specifies that the thermal clipsincreaese firepower but only (apparently) the rate of fire in the long run assuming you spam your gun till it overheats.

2: without that specific qualifier or any other similar ones the heatsink weapons make ZERO sense and feel shoehorned in to make the game feel more like GOW.

As I said many times before, my stepson is a US marine and a gamer (he actually just got back here in NC with the rest if 1/6 bravo)....I asked him which weapon would a soldier want (ME1 or ME2 style) and he said "**** NO" to the thermal clips weapons. They make no sense.

I was in the US Navy, security.  I also have military experience.  Bother to read the ME 1 codex, and you'll find that the Council races actually used ammunition.  The Game and its lore was never synchronous.  

[Adhin]

Heh yeah there reasoning for unlimited in ME1 was you'd 'probably never fire enough rounds' to need to reload between missions. And you'd obviously been going into each mission freshly loaded. Still that overheating took for freaking ever. Anytime I overheated it felt like I was reloading a belt-fed.

[crimzontearz]

no duh...I informed him of cooldowns.....the answer was the same. and those ammo came in blocks worth several thousands shots.....much more than a few hundreds

[Someone With Mass]

Adhin wrote...

Ehh Boarderlands didn't level weapons up from use. You got 'new' guns entirely every 10 minutes. Though I could see it being a proficiency like system based off use. That or everytime you level up you get a point to put towards a weapon type to upgrade it. So far they haven't been to big on 'use it to make it better'. And swapping stuff around a lot could be detrimental to that.

I kinda hope it's based off your char lvls getting weapon upgrade points.

Actually, the weapon types were upgraded when you killed enemies with + X% damage, accuracy, reload speed and so on.

[Adhin]

I do not remember my weapon actually leveling up at all. I remember having a shotgun I loved that kept getting weaker and weaker as I got through the game since I disliked all the newer guns that kept showing up. but then its been awhile, a damn long while. So many things that bugged me about that game, most the stuff that bugs me about any game that tries to do the diablo thing... far to many items dropping far to often. D2 had a good pace to that.

That and the shooting felt... off. Often happens when you try to mix the RPG with the Shooting. Why ME2 and Deus Ex was so good, done a better job of that then most.

[incinerator950]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Adhin wrote...

Ehh Boarderlands didn't level weapons up from use. You got 'new' guns entirely every 10 minutes. Though I could see it being a proficiency like system based off use. That or everytime you level up you get a point to put towards a weapon type to upgrade it. So far they haven't been to big on 'use it to make it better'. And swapping stuff around a lot could be detrimental to that.

I kinda hope it's based off your char lvls getting weapon upgrade points.

Actually, the weapon types were upgraded when you killed enemies with + X% damage, accuracy, reload speed and so on.

He's reffering to the weapon skill your character had.  Level 69 Berserker, 50 on all weapons.  Good lord I feel like playing for five minutes, before nostalgia kicks out and I realize why I stopped playing.

[incinerator950]

crimzontearz wrote...

no duh...I informed him of cooldowns.....the answer was the same. and those ammo came in blocks worth several thousands shots.....much more than a few hundreds

Then you have the correct response from your original post.  The Thermal clip were made to increase fire rate, correcting me.  However, the ammunition has always been there.  Thermal Clips increase the fire rate, because of weapon improvements for disabling Barriers and shields. 

You could have several thousand rounds, I'd rather have several hundred that can reduce and penetrate defenses without resorting to special ammunition. 

[Adhin]

Ahh weapon skill yeah I was... thinking weapon it self. No yeah they had a skill/talent system in there and all that. That I remember, though not sure ME3 will use a 'increase as you go'. Certain classes could fall dangerously behind due to skill use. I feel like if they going to do that it'll be upgrade points via lvling or just mineral use like in ME2. Minerals are back, after all, we just get them via other methods now instead of the mineral scanning.... thank jebus.

[incinerator950]

Adhin wrote...

Ahh weapon skill yeah I was... thinking weapon it self. No yeah they had a skill/talent system in there and all that. That I remember, though not sure ME3 will use a 'increase as you go'. Certain classes could fall dangerously behind due to skill use. I feel like if they going to do that it'll be upgrade points via lvling or just mineral use like in ME2. Minerals are back, after all, we just get them via other methods now instead of the mineral scanning.... thank jebus.

I wouldn't mind Monster Hunter's upgrade weapon (for guns), and then have attachments for said guns.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

I don't think they would do increase as you go. Cause we have the ability to use almost any combination of guns we can think of. Like being a Sentinel who can hold three weapons has many ways we could organize the weapons we use. So if I were to change the weapons I am using I have to start leveling them up to? That'd be a tad unfair. Plus if your playing on Insanity and decide to change the weapons you use half way through the game,

[Adhin]

Yeah that's what I was thinking SpecialRyan. It could easily get out of hand. Though it's possible the upgrades don't effect damage much and only effect some other minor stuff. Such as Accuracy and Weight. Could even be ammo capacity but I'm not sure about that considering what I've seen in recent footage. I mean that basic pistol has 120 extra shots. Not sure what 9 levels of increasing ammo would do or make much of a difference hah.

Anyways maybe weapon levels don't up damage? Though increasing mod slots would make a huge difference to so.. .still balance stuff there. Ahh maybe we'll get lucky and a dev will show up and just throw it out there for us all detaily and less vague.

[incinerator950]

Could be upgrade as you go.

Upgrade any weapon to level 10. Looks like the achievement states the option to upgrade.

[The Spamming Troll]

Adhin wrote...

Yeah that's only because you could make guns not overheat in ME1. Should try asking him again with guns that overheat and take 3-4 seconds to cooldown. You can reload an M4 from empty faster then that, and the thermal clips are smaller and lighter then an M4/16 mag. With how fast you just slap a new sync in as it pops out the old one? I don't know anyone in the military who would take the cooling system over a second of sync swap.

Only real exception I see to that would be the Sniper Rifles again that're single shot in ME2. But thats an awkward gameplay thing they tried to go for over actual convenience. I know they went to syncs for a gameplay reason, even after they tried a button-press force cool to try and get the same rhyme to combat.

If you compare a Spectre AR with proper mods that can't overheat? Sure there isn't a soldier in the world who wouldn't prefer that over ME2 system. But using your own argument over it being a gameplay thing - that's all it was. A broken gameplay issue. Lore wise the guns overheated all the damn time, constantly. Lore vs Lore the syncs make more sense from a military perspective.

If anything its crazier to think it took them this long to come up with a quick-swap sync system. Or that there isn't some kind of belt-pack that helps cool spent syncs so you always have a fresh supply with out having to pick ones up.

The idea of expendable syncs seems more like a waste in ME then anything. Some kind of quick-swap, re-useable sync that cools quicker outside of the gun via other means would seem like the most logical step. You'd be cutting down your 'cooling' point via the swap and allowing it to cool down elsewhere. You'd only really need 3-5 syncs really to cycle though.

your forgetting theres pros and cons to modding. its not just modding your weapon to never overheat, and still cause high damage. the fire-forever weapons sacrificed damage, while high DPS modding made for more overheating. overheating only became a problem if your gun overheated. its almost the same problem youd get with your M4, because youd need to reload.

thermal clips and M4s ammo count must be refilled durring combat. overheat weapons never had to rely on such a restriction. i feel like your trying to compare needing to carry lots of extra ammo compared to one block for ever.

i wonder why bioware doesnt get rid of 'total ammo' anyways. its a rarity your running out of ammo anyways, and all running out of ammo means is i have to move five feet adn walk over some, or kill the last 2 enemies with my backup weapon. people just want to reload. i ont think the intensity comes from your total ammo count so much as how many shots are left in the barrel.

[SKiLLYWiLLY2]

I'm not sure if weapon proficiency (like in borderlands) is that good of an idea. Like someone just said, if you start out using an AR and decide to take up a shotgun later in the game (you find one that appeals to you, for example) you're going to, essentially, have an underpowered gun.

When playing borderlands, I never used other guns in the end because of this.

I guess it depends on what exactly gets upgraded in the weapons.

[Adhin]

Yeah, so curious...

@SpammyTroll: I kind of am because realistically speaking, the way games handle cover systems and how we play them is not how real world stuff works. So if we're going to compare how this crap would actually work in a real world scenario your going to have to take that into account. You don't sit up on the corner of a wall with your back to it, pop out at the 'right time' and throw a few rounds into a guys head down a corridor.

Positions aside, in an all out war it often comes down to suppressive fire and flanking. Or just putting down far more rounds then they are. The overheating issue in ME1 (if you didn't mod for it) would be a determiment to that concept. That's what LMG's are for, though, ultimately 100 rounds burst fired continueously can do some wonderful things for suppressing positions.

And your still limited by a thousand or so rounds in ME1, every soldier probably carrys an extra metal slap or 2 just incase. So yes, I was comparing weight limits as thats a huge factor for any soldier. Ammo weighs a lot, your gun weighs a good bit. It weighs more fully loaded then it does when you have a few shots left. You can carry only so much on you at any given moment.

Thermal Clips in ME2 ultimately would weigh waaaaay less, and there in a smaller package. You could carry a buttload of them on you with out heavily impacting your overall weight in comparison. Which would turn any 25-30 'round' assault rifle into a LMG as far as its ability to suppress an area. And a gun 'designed' for that, like the Revanant would be able to do even better in comparison - all with the same 'weight' in the thermal clip area.

If you could carry around a LMG of today with out the box mags they currently usually work off of? The weight difference that would provide for a soldier would be phenominal. A System where it overheats every 30 shots then you have to wait 4-5 seconds for it to cool down would ultimately be of great determiment. So in that situation one that never overheats (which would be an impossibility) would be amazing.

Keep in mind, overheating for stuff like that is still a real world issue atm. They'd often carry a second barrel to swap out due to it overheating and cycle through them if they where dug in a trench. Though that's less of an issue now and days then it was back more around WW2 and such.

Modifié par Adhin, 05 février 2012 - 08:51 .

[BlazeShepard]

Ignoring the long-running back-and-forth about ME1 vs ME2 weapon hint sinks/reloading...

From what I know there's sadly not a lot of fully automatic assault rifles. Sure there's the Avenger and the Valkyrie but the Avenger was by far the weakest AR in ME2 and the Valkyrie's DLC I might not even get because I refuse to preorder at Gamestop. Do we know if any of the other ARs are fully automatic?

I'm not including the Revenant among the "full auto AR" category in this question because even though it's under the AR slot it's classified as an LMG.

[Elecbender]

Well, there's another thread tainted.....

Looking at that leaked demo video's stats, the Mattock really hit the dirt. Only good thing going for it is accuracy. Hopefully those stats are misleading.

On the bright side the Infiltrator will have a nice time with the Raptor combined with the class' mastery, tactical cloak and the Marksman talent.

Modifié par Elecbender, 06 février 2012 - 04:03 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Adhin wrote...

@SpammyTroll: I kind of am because realistically speaking, the way games handle cover systems and how we play them is not how real world stuff works. So if we're going to compare how this crap would actually work in a real world scenario your going to have to take that into account. You don't sit up on the corner of a wall with your back to it, pop out at the 'right time' and throw a few rounds into a guys head down a corridor.

really, you want to discuss why shepard doesnt brush his teeth or go pee too? "lets consider the year 2012" shouldnt be part of your argument.

Adhin wrote...

Positions
aside, in an all out war it often comes down to suppressive fire and
flanking. Or just putting down far more rounds then they are. The
overheating issue in ME1 (if you didn't mod for it) would be a
determiment to that concept. That's what LMG's are for, though,
ultimately 100 rounds burst fired continueously can do some wonderful
things for suppressing positions.

if you exclude an important aspect of a weapons design(bolded), then yeah, it would be detrimental to its functionality. what do you do when your LMG runs out of those 100 bullets after you wasted a bunch of ammo on suppressing fire? youd be dead, while me and my overheat weapons would simply count to 4 and continue firing.

Adhin wrote...

Thermal
Clips in ME2 ultimately would weigh waaaaay less, and there in a
smaller package. You could carry a buttload of them on you with out
heavily impacting your overall weight in comparison. Which would turn
any 25-30 'round' assault rifle into a LMG as far as its ability to
suppress an area. And a gun 'designed' for that, like the Revanant would
be able to do even better in comparison - all with the same 'weight' in
the thermal clip area.

TCs weigh less then real world ammo, or overheat blocks? obviously in ME2 you need to pick up ammo frequently while in ME1 you never pick up ammo. so i dont follow how TCs > real world ammo > overheat blocks

[ScifiSpartan]

So is the final list? Or is this what we know of so far?