177 réponses à ce sujet

[Sidney]

RolandX9 wrote...
You do realize that no sane military would ever deliberately make life-or-death combat harder on its soldiers, right? Sure, there's no way that every grunt is going to have a million-credit Spectre X with Cryo Ammo and Frictionless Materials, but the idea that there isn't one military in the galaxy giving its ground troops ping guns is mind-numbingly stupid. So the argument that combat is more challenging is actually an argument against thermal clips in-universe.<_<

the only reason overheating is good is if you are a quartermaster. Those guys hate having to work and overheat lowers their work load. Real soldiers don't want their guns becoming inoperative because they had to change their fire discipline. I mean sure I could let the barrel of my M249 cool down but it is a lot better to swap the barrel out when it gets too hot and resume firing. I've had to fire weapons in combat and deal with overheating and ammo. I can tell you that what ME1 did was epically worse in terms of real world implications.

[someguy1231]

RolandX9 wrote...

You do realize that no sane military would ever deliberately make life-or-death combat harder on its soldiers, right? Sure, there's no way that every grunt is going to have a million-credit Spectre X with Cryo Ammo and Frictionless Materials, but the idea that there isn't one military in the galaxy giving its ground troops ping guns is mind-numbingly stupid. So the argument that combat is more challenging is actually an argument against thermal clips in-universe.<_<

Fun gameplay > in-universe lore that makes sense

I've said this before many times already. Thermal clips were added to make combat more challenging and less tedious. Yes, they could've handled the lore explanation better (I'd have preferred they simply pretend thermal clips were always in use and retcon the overheating away), but since Bioware was changing gameplay first and then changing the lore to fit it, some inconsistencies were inevitable.

[Xarathox]

someguy1231 wrote...

RolandX9 wrote...

You do realize that no sane military would ever deliberately make life-or-death combat harder on its soldiers, right? Sure, there's no way that every grunt is going to have a million-credit Spectre X with Cryo Ammo and Frictionless Materials, but the idea that there isn't one military in the galaxy giving its ground troops ping guns is mind-numbingly stupid. So the argument that combat is more challenging is actually an argument against thermal clips in-universe.<_<

Fun gameplay > in-universe lore that makes sense

I've said this before many times already. Thermal clips were added to make combat more challenging and less tedious. Yes, they could've handled the lore explanation better (I'd have preferred they simply pretend thermal clips were always in use and retcon the overheating away), but since Bioware was changing gameplay first and then changing the lore to fit it, some inconsistencies were inevitable.

The largest inconsistancy is the "explination" that thermal clips are universal, yet each weapon has a set amount of clips that it can use.

If my Revenant can fire a total of 527 rounds (with terminus armor equiped) then my shotgun/pistol/sniper rifle should be able to do the same. Except they can't, because universal clips aren't universal.

[tomorrowstation]

Xarathox wrote...

someguy1231 wrote...

RolandX9 wrote...

You do realize that no sane military would ever deliberately make life-or-death combat harder on its soldiers, right? Sure, there's no way that every grunt is going to have a million-credit Spectre X with Cryo Ammo and Frictionless Materials, but the idea that there isn't one military in the galaxy giving its ground troops ping guns is mind-numbingly stupid. So the argument that combat is more challenging is actually an argument against thermal clips in-universe.<_<

Fun gameplay > in-universe lore that makes sense

I've said this before many times already. Thermal clips were added to make combat more challenging and less tedious. Yes, they could've handled the lore explanation better (I'd have preferred they simply pretend thermal clips were always in use and retcon the overheating away), but since Bioware was changing gameplay first and then changing the lore to fit it, some inconsistencies were inevitable.

The largest inconsistancy is the "explination" that thermal clips are universal, yet each weapon has a set amount of clips that it can use.

If my Revenant can fire a total of 527 rounds (with terminus armor equiped) then my shotgun/pistol/sniper rifle should be able to do the same. Except they can't, because universal clips aren't universal.

I thought this was because different guns generate different amounts of waste heat. Shotguns generate a lot more than the Revenant. The clip absorbs a set amount of heat, but gun x uses up that capacity more than gun y,

[andy6915]

Xarathox wrote...
The largest inconsistancy is the "explination" that thermal clips are universal, yet each weapon has a set amount of clips that it can use.

If my Revenant can fire a total of 527 rounds (with terminus armor equiped) then my shotgun/pistol/sniper rifle should be able to do the same. Except they can't, because universal clips aren't universal.

I've heard a theory on that, one I've personally accepted as canon. Each weapon builds up heat faster or slower then other weapons, which in turn causes the heat sink to get too heated for use faster then it would in another weapon. Like for example, the Revenant doesn't have much heat build up, and so the heat sink can take a ton of shots before it needs to be ejected, while the Widow builds up a ridiculous amount of heat per shot, and so the heat sink can't take very much at all of that weapon.

The heat sink counter shows a different amount for each weapon because it's showing how many shots your heat sink count can take of that weapon. What's 400 bullets from one weapon, might only be worth 15 of another, because one fills up the heat sinks capacity much more per shot then the other. And do note, they are universal, picking of a heat sink fills the heat sink counter for ALL weapons.

Anyway, this theory is literally perfect for explaining this. Honestly, if Bioware is reading this, they should add it to the codex and make it official in ME3.

tomorrowstation wrote...
I thought this was because different guns generate different amounts of waste heat. Shotguns generate a lot more than the Revenant. The clip absorbs a set amount of heat, but
gun x uses up that capacity more than gun y,

Exactly.

Modifié par andy69156915, 21 janvier 2012 - 05:51 .

[Random citizen]

someguy1231 wrote...

RolandX9 wrote...

You do realize that no sane military would ever deliberately make life-or-death combat harder on its soldiers, right? Sure, there's no way that every grunt is going to have a million-credit Spectre X with Cryo Ammo and Frictionless Materials, but the idea that there isn't one military in the galaxy giving its ground troops ping guns is mind-numbingly stupid. So the argument that combat is more challenging is actually an argument against thermal clips in-universe.<_<

Fun gameplay > in-universe lore that makes sense

I've said this before many times already. Thermal clips were added to make combat more challenging and less tedious. Yes, they could've handled the lore explanation better (I'd have preferred they simply pretend thermal clips were always in use and retcon the overheating away), but since Bioware was changing gameplay first and then changing the lore to fit it, some inconsistencies were inevitable.

For many gameplay that does not make sense negates much of the possibility of fun gameplay as the "funnyness" is contextalised by the setting. For us its similar to saying Explotions>story. 
If one is mean, and one is sometimes, one can say that Bioware tried to fix something that did not make any sense (ME gamplay and combat mechanics ) with something else that does not make much sense either.

[Sidney]

Random citizen wrote...
For many gameplay that does not make sense negates much of the possibility of fun gameplay as the "funnyness" is contextalised by the setting. For us its similar to saying Explotions>story. 
If one is mean, and one is sometimes, one can say that Bioware tried to fix something that did not make any sense (ME gamplay and combat mechanics ) with something else that does not make much sense either.

It makes sense, well the change they made makes sense I don't think the idea of heat in either ME1 or ME2 and the way it is implemented makes a lick of sense. Clips are better logically in addition to whatever gameplay boost, they have.

[Xarathox]

andy69156915 wrote...

Xarathox wrote...
The largest inconsistancy is the "explination" that thermal clips are universal, yet each weapon has a set amount of clips that it can use.

If my Revenant can fire a total of 527 rounds (with terminus armor equiped) then my shotgun/pistol/sniper rifle should be able to do the same. Except they can't, because universal clips aren't universal.

I've heard a theory on that, one I've personally accepted as canon. Each weapon builds up heat faster or slower then other weapons, which in turn causes the heat sink to get too heated for use faster then it would in another weapon. Like for example, the Revenant doesn't have much heat build up, and so the heat sink can take a ton of shots before it needs to be ejected, while the Widow builds up a ridiculous amount of heat per shot, and so the heat sink can't take very much at all of that weapon.

The heat sink counter shows a different amount for each weapon because it's showing how many shots your heat sink count can take of that weapon. What's 400 bullets from one weapon, might only be worth 15 of another, because one fills up the heat sinks capacity much more per shot then the other. And do note, they are universal, picking of a heat sink fills the heat sink counter for ALL weapons.

Anyway, this theory is literally perfect for explaining this. Honestly, if Bioware is reading this, they should add it to the codex and make it official in ME3.

tomorrowstation wrote...
I thought this was because different guns generate different amounts of waste heat. Shotguns generate a lot more than the Revenant. The clip absorbs a set amount of heat, but
gun x uses up that capacity more than gun y,

Exactly.

That's a better explination than the in game codex, but one slight problem. If I run out of thermal clips for one weapon then it would affect all weapons clip reserves. That is, if they are in fact pooled together.

I also have a problem with the idea that a shotgun generates more heat than an AR/MG. In real life, it's the complete opposite.

Bleh, don't think i'm ever going to be able to fully wrap my mind around BW's ass backwards approach to weapons. So, I'll just stop.

[Sidney]

Xarathox wrote...

I also have a problem with the idea that a shotgun generates more heat than an AR/MG. In real life, it's the complete opposite.

That is based on friction ME's heat is based on...who knows what. Like I said earlier the "heat" idea stinks and doeesn't make any sense. In theory it is supposed to be based on the power of the round you are firing as opposed to friction on the barrel but shotguns don't have a lot of "power" behind them since they are a lower velocity weapon and I'm not sure that a sniper rifle round is 16x more powerful than a Mattock round for example to explain the massive heat difference.

[Random citizen]

Sidney wrote...

Random citizen wrote...
For many gameplay that does not make sense negates much of the possibility of fun gameplay as the "funnyness" is contextalised by the setting. For us its similar to saying Explotions>story. 
If one is mean, and one is sometimes, one can say that Bioware tried to fix something that did not make any sense (ME gamplay and combat mechanics ) with something else that does not make much sense either.

It makes sense, well the change they made makes sense I don't think the idea of heat in either ME1 or ME2 and the way it is implemented makes a lick of sense. Clips are better logically in addition to whatever gameplay boost, they have.

If you read my posts, you will probably get what I am referring to.

[Ghost Warrior]

Will we hear this sound every time we have to reload or just when we are completely out of clips?

[Arppis]

I wouldn't mind if some guns had the overheating. Why not make models that overheat for people who like it?

[Praetor Knight]

Xarathox wrote...

That's a better explination than the in game codex, but one slight problem. If I run out of thermal clips for one weapon then it would affect all weapons clip reserves. That is, if they are in fact pooled together.

I also have a problem with the idea that a shotgun generates more heat than an AR/MG. In real life, it's the complete opposite.

Bleh, don't think i'm ever going to be able to fully wrap my mind around BW's ass backwards approach to weapons. So, I'll just stop.

I figure the numbers are the individual capacities of each weapon, so the displayed numbers are whats carried inside each weapon.

But this theory has Thermal Clips working as universal speedloaders for smaller heatsinks stored inside the Clips. So what is not clear is if there might be an actual difference between detachable heat sinks and Thermal Clips, or if the terms are simply interchangeable.

So there is a possibility that multiple smaller Heat Sinks are stored in a single Thermal Clip and that being a Clip, only the heat sinks are transferred and stored in the ME2 style weapons. In other words, they could function like a speedloader, refilling weapons' capacity. Since one clip can top off several weapons, and pickups provide variable returns per clip pickup, it's a plausible theory that seems to fit available evidence.

For example, shotguns and SMG's get upgrades that increase their total number of shots.

From the Wiki: Shotgun Upgrades / Submachine Gun Upgrades

More efficient heat-sink materials improve the absorption and dissipation of heat. Allows for smaller, easier-to-carry heat sinks.

Also, these numbers below are some thoughts as to how many  Thermal Clips it could take to completely refill each ME2 weapon on the far right column. So one small heat sink for the Carnifex can take 6 shots then it needs to be ejected, for example, so maybe a total of four, if I'm thinking about them correctly.



I might as well say that there are three things that I don't like about the implementation of Thermal Clips regarding gameplay mechanics in ME2 gameplay.

The first is that if you reload with a few rounds left, say 7 left on the Revenant, those should disapear completely since there is a new heat sink loaded, not how it works in ME2 where 73 get deducted from the right side of the hud image. and added to the left side. The second is the low pickup rate for Sniper Rifles and Pistols and then the third is thevariation in their potential damage can affect different loadouts in ME2. For example a soldier running around with the Carnifex, mantis (or Incisor), Mattock or Vindicator and maybe the Katana or GPS would need to pickup more Thermal Clips then running around with a different loadout or another class.

[Someone With Mass]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Will we hear this sound every time we have to reload or just when we are completely out of clips?

From the sound of it, it'll go off when you have to reload.

[Ghost Warrior]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Will we hear this sound every time we have to reload or just when we are completely out of clips?

From the sound of it, it'll go off when you have to reload.

Sh*t,that'll be annoying. I guess I will just have to get used to it.

[Praetor Knight]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Will we hear this sound every time we have to reload or just when we are completely out of clips?

From the sound of it, it'll go off when you have to reload.

Sh*t,that'll be annoying. I guess I will just have to get used to it.

It should only sound, if you try to fire without a clip / heat sink loaded.

[Random citizen]

Luc0s wrote...

I don't understand why anyone wants the horrible-designed and totally broken overheating game-mechanics back. Overheating sucked. Overheating was bad game-design. Overheating is inferior to simple but effective ammo/reloading game-mechanics.

Both ME and ME2 has overheating. ME2 just uses a specific amoubt of fired roubds before overheating and allows for replacing the "full" heat sink.

[mauro2222]

I really didn't find thermal clips to be more challenging at all, not even on insanity 

Modifié par mauro2222, 21 janvier 2012 - 07:10 .

[Someone With Mass]

mauro2222 wrote...

I really didn't find thermal clips to be more challenging at all, not even on insanity 

Same here.

It's all about knowing how to use your powers.

[Nashiktal]

Someone With Mass wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

I really didn't find thermal clips to be more challenging at all, not even on insanity 

Same here.

It's all about knowing how to use your powers.

I played as a soldier specced mainly for ammo, and I still didn't have trouble with thermal clips. The only time I ever had trouble was because the game supports a "camping" strategy because shields are so weak and you are practically invincible in cover.

[Someone With Mass]

The only time I ran out of ammo completely was the first time I played Arrival and that was because I didn't know the structure of the map well enough to make a better strategy than sitting in the corner while taking potshots at the guards as they rush in.

Well, that and the one time I gave up all my ammo in LotSB because I was curious of how it would play out, but it made me facepalm so hard that I immediately reloaded a save and picked something else.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 21 janvier 2012 - 08:20 .

[Praetor Knight]

Arrival has the toughest sequence and there are only one or two areas in the rest of ME2 where it can be tougher to to keep all weapons topped off, if you try to everything yourself without the squad or doing normal clip pickup and/or power cells.

And once you know where those permanent Thermal Clips respawn at and where Power Cells are, it's easy to keep working with little help from your squad.

[Nashiktal]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The only time I ran out of ammo completely was the first time I played Arrival and that was because I didn't know the structure of the map well enough to make a better strategy than sitting in the corner while taking potshots at the guards as they rush in.

Well, that and the one time I gave up all my ammo in LotSB because I was curious of how it would play out, but it made me facepalm so hard that I immediately reloaded a save and picked something else.

Oh I never did that, what happens if you drop your weapon?