155 réponses à ce sujet

[Shepard the Leper]

m14567 wrote...

It appears to me that Adept is going to be improved in ME 3. I'd be surprised if shockwave hasn't been significantly improved, that pull and throw will be better in game since no squadmates, or at least permanent ones, have those powers now, and you'll get access to better weapons from the start. I agree that stasis should have been adept only and that biotic grenade seems a bit uninspiring. Although not having played the game it is just speculation.

Those improvements are not really related to the Adept - they are general improvements. IMHO the Adept's value has decreased significantly: A grenade - whatever its effect - is a combat power, not fitting the Adept's area of expertise. Liara looks like someone who not only surpasses the Adept in biotics, but pretty much makes playing the Adept class redundant because the only "unique" thing - Singularity - can be cast by Liara too.

Every class has something going for them except the Adept. For some reason nobody at Bioware seems to give a sh-t about the Adept. The removal of their new and only unique power at such a late stage in development says a lot. The biotic specialist appears to be interesting to those who enjoy playing a game with a gimped and uninteresting character, for the challenge or something. In my opinion it's a waste of one of the most interesting classes of the series.

[Vapaa]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

adepts are going to be be like engineers in ME1.

nobody plays them.

ME1 Engineer+shotgun=kickass class

Mostly because the powers were all the same and all of them eated health

[JediHealerCosmin]

Frankly I would change the Biotic Grenade into something like Walking Bomb used in Dragon Age Origins.
You launch it to the target, it begins trembling and then it explodes hitting everyone within a certain radius without... i don't know, not killing the intended target.  However I don't think they would make something like this, mostly because it's sort of a safe version of Nova in a way. 

[Shepard the Leper]

Vapaä wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

adepts are going to be be like engineers in ME1.

nobody plays them.

ME1 Engineer+shotgun=kickass class

Mostly because the powers were all the same and all of them eated health

Seconded, but only because Engineers lacked defensive buffs to make them invincible. An ME1 AI Hacking Infiltrator is basically an Engineer who cannot die and wields a sniper rifle - powerful but far less exciting.

[The Spamming Troll]

easier difficulty engineers can through their tech mines around all willy nilly and just rely on the damage instead of the passives from the mine. higher difficulties needed moreeffort in ability usage tho.

but even tho you guys enjoy the engineer, doesnt mean it still wasnt the least played class, by far.

i can see the future becasue im an Xmen, and with that power im seeing the adept being just as lackluster as the engineer, in comparison to the other 5 classes.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 21 janvier 2012 - 07:07 .

[Abraham_uk]

JediHealerCosmin wrote...

Frankly I would change the Biotic Grenade into something like Walking Bomb used in Dragon Age Origins.
You launch it to the target, it begins trembling and then it explodes hitting everyone within a certain radius without... i don't know, not killing the intended target.  However I don't think they would make something like this, mostly because it's sort of a safe version of Nova in a way. 

First things first, Dragon Age Origins was a great game! (I love your blood dragon profile picture). Walking Bomb and it's evolved varient were both awesome abilities. It's also a great suggestion. No scrap that, it's an amazing suggestion.


About biotic grenade. I've read several pages whining and complaining from this thread. Personally I'm happy with it. I love the idea and don't see any problem with it. My only real issue with the adept is the simple fact that enemies having protections completly nerf biotics (not partially but completly). This is in much the same way that a rock is covered by paper, when the rock should be tearing that piece of paper apart.

A high damage grenade that is in limited supply and not affected by cooldowns sounds like a cool idea. Admittedly some of the suggestions such as the biotic shield (suggested on page 2 of this thread) and the biotic walking bomb ability are better, but until I see this ability in action I'll give the developers the benefit of the doubt.

Adept is still my favourite class, and I'm willing to get through a through hurdles (i.e. enemy protections) to see my biotics in action.

[JediHealerCosmin]

Abraham_uk wrote...

JediHealerCosmin wrote...

Frankly I would change the Biotic Grenade into something like Walking Bomb used in Dragon Age Origins.
You launch it to the target, it begins trembling and then it explodes hitting everyone within a certain radius without... i don't know, not killing the intended target.  However I don't think they would make something like this, mostly because it's sort of a safe version of Nova in a way. 

First things first, Dragon Age Origins was a great game! (I love your blood dragon profile picture). Walking Bomb and it's evolved varient were both awesome abilities. It's also a great suggestion. No scrap that, it's an amazing suggestion.


About biotic grenade. I've read several pages whining and complaining from this thread. Personally I'm happy with it. I love the idea and don't see any problem with it. My only real issue with the adept is the simple fact that enemies having protections completly nerf biotics (not partially but completly). This is in much the same way that a rock is covered by paper, when the rock should be tearing that piece of paper apart.

A high damage grenade that is in limited supply and not affected by cooldowns sounds like a cool idea. Admittedly some of the suggestions such as the biotic shield (suggested on page 2 of this thread) and the biotic walking bomb ability are better, but until I see this ability in action I'll give the developers the benefit of the doubt.

Adept is still my favourite class, and I'm willing to get through a through hurdles (i.e. enemy protections) to see my biotics in action.

Thanks very much  

I do admit that the Grenade would be an interesting change of pace and we can't really make any complaints until we finally see it in action. I just find it a little strange that they would choose this for a class (my favorite class) which is supposed to take out enemies without using any weapons.

I played the Suicide Mission on Insanity without firing a shot and it was damned fantastic, best fun I ever had.
It's a formula I hope will be supported in ME3.

Modifié par JediHealerCosmin, 21 janvier 2012 - 07:35 .

[Abraham_uk]

JediHealerCosmin wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

JediHealerCosmin wrote...

Frankly I would change the Biotic Grenade into something like Walking Bomb used in Dragon Age Origins.
You launch it to the target, it begins trembling and then it explodes hitting everyone within a certain radius without... i don't know, not killing the intended target.  However I don't think they would make something like this, mostly because it's sort of a safe version of Nova in a way. 

First things first, Dragon Age Origins was a great game! (I love your blood dragon profile picture). Walking Bomb and it's evolved varient were both awesome abilities. It's also a great suggestion. No scrap that, it's an amazing suggestion.


About biotic grenade. I've read several pages whining and complaining from this thread. Personally I'm happy with it. I love the idea and don't see any problem with it. My only real issue with the adept is the simple fact that enemies having protections completly nerf biotics (not partially but completly). This is in much the same way that a rock is covered by paper, when the rock should be tearing that piece of paper apart.

A high damage grenade that is in limited supply and not affected by cooldowns sounds like a cool idea. Admittedly some of the suggestions such as the biotic shield (suggested on page 2 of this thread) and the biotic walking bomb ability are better, but until I see this ability in action I'll give the developers the benefit of the doubt.

Adept is still my favourite class, and I'm willing to get through a through hurdles (i.e. enemy protections) to see my biotics in action.

Thanks very much  

I do admit that the Grenade would be an interesting change of pace and we can't really make any complaints until we finally see it in action. I just find it a little strange that they would choose this for a class (my favorite class) which is supposed to take out enemies without using any weapons.

I played the Suicide Mission on Insanity without firing a shot and it was damned fantastic, best fun I ever had.
It's a formula I hope will be supported in ME3.

I've played all classes except soldier and I have enjoyed all five of the ones I've tried. Adept and Vanguards come up on top, with engineer in third place, infiltrator in fourth and sentinel in fifth.

Well I used guns a lot as an adept, but I hardly ever ran out of ammo as an adept, but playing as vanguards and infiltrators meant that I was constantly running out of ammo. The reason, the ability to strip all protections with powers. Singularity to remove shields, warp to remove barriers, armour and to stop health regeneration, and then pull, throw and shockwave for ragdolling. Damned fantastic you say? Hell yeah.

If a game gives me telekinesis as an option I'm using it! That means Jedi in The Old Republic and Force Mage in Dragon Age 2.

The prospect of the adept being even more powerful than in Mass Effect 2 (hopefully protections not completly nerfing biotics) would be great. But personally, I don't mind using weapons too. Sure you can kill enemies without firing a single shot, but it makes the game so much slower. I like to mix things up you see.

About your walking bomb, you might want to watch this video at 2 minutes in.

[JediHealerCosmin]

Abraham_uk wrote...

About your walking bomb, you might want to watch this video at 2 minutes in.

Yea I remember that  
The first time I saw that trailer, I thought turning into a spider was gonna be better.
Boy was I wrong...

[Ahglock]

MJvasNormandy wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Dear God I'd love to have a spell check.  Even without my dislexia I'm a typo king.

Case in point, its spelled dyslexia.

Actually, ist dsylxeia. I should knwo, runs in the famliy.

The humour value of me typoing 
dsylxeia is not lost on me. When I was in 6th grade one of the teachers had a poster up that said Dyslexics of the world untie, I read it wrong or right depending on how you look at it.  

I wonder is it technically a typo if you know how to spell it but your fingers fly to a more phonetic spelling without thinking about it.  

[Shepard the Leper]

Abraham_uk wrote...

My only real issue with the adept is the simple fact that enemies having protections completly nerf biotics (not partially but completly).

Protection is the least of the Adept's concerns and it's something all classes have to deal with, plus you can toggle it off (for the most part) by playing on Veteran instead of Insanity.

Adept is still my favourite class, and I'm willing to get through a through hurdles (i.e. enemy protections) to see my biotics in action.

Well, that's the problem people like me have with the ME3 version of the Adept. You can do everything they can do playing any of the other five classes. I don't like that. Where is the Adept's equivalent of Charge, Sentries, Cloak, or ARush? - stuff you can only experience by playing one of the other five classes. Anyone can use Pull, Throw, Warp, Shockwave, Singularity and throw some grenades. They're business as usual - nothing special.

[Ahglock]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Well, that's the problem people like me have with the ME3 version of the Adept. You can do everything they can do playing any of the other five classes. I don't like that. Where is the Adept's equivalent of Charge, Sentries, Cloak, or ARush? - stuff you can only experience by playing one of the other five classes. Anyone can use Pull, Throw, Warp, Shockwave, Singularity and throw some grenades. They're business as usual - nothing special.

Yup nothing stands out in a way to make the adept seem like the biotic specialist of the classes.  What makes the adept the best biotic you can play?  If that question has the weak sauce answer the current power set up gives us, they screwed up.

[Abraham_uk]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

My only real issue with the adept is the simple fact that enemies having protections completly nerf biotics (not partially but completly).

Protection is the least of the Adept's concerns and it's something all classes have to deal with, plus you can toggle it off (for the most part) by playing on Veteran instead of Insanity.

Adept is still my favourite class, and I'm willing to get through a through hurdles (i.e. enemy protections) to see my biotics in action.

Well, that's the problem people like me have with the ME3 version of the Adept. You can do everything they can do playing any of the other five classes. I don't like that. Where is the Adept's equivalent of Charge, Sentries, Cloak, or ARush? - stuff you can only experience by playing one of the other five classes. Anyone can use Pull, Throw, Warp, Shockwave, Singularity and throw some grenades. They're business as usual - nothing special.

Correction: Vanguards can pull and shockwave, Sentinels can throw and warp.

Engineers powers are also used by other classes. Infiltrators can AI hack and incinerate, Sentinels can overload and freeze. So Engineers are business as usual - nothing special.

If you're refeering to bonus powers, such as reeve and slam, well energy drain and neural shock are also available to all classes. Only the adept can use singularity and only the engineer can use the turret.

Also all classes can use an assault rifle. So is the soldier also "business as usual"?

Yes there are overlaps, but Adept is its own separate identity. The six classes are completly different in playstyle and how you approach each situation. I'm sorry but I just don't buy this argument.

[Shepard the Leper]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Correction: Vanguards can pull and shockwave, Sentinels can throw and warp.

Engineers powers are also used by other classes. Infiltrators can AI hack and incinerate, Sentinels can overload and freeze. So Engineers are business as usual - nothing special.

If you're refeering to bonus powers, such as reeve and slam, well energy drain and neural shock are also available to all classes. Only the adept can use singularity and only the engineer can use the turret.

Also all classes can use an assault rifle. So is the soldier also "business as usual"?

Yes there are overlaps, but Adept is its own separate identity. The six classes are completly different in playstyle and how you approach each situation. I'm sorry but I just don't buy this argument.

You actually support my argument with this post

Every class has something unique except the Adept. That's my point. I don't think there are many people who play Vanguard to use Incendiary Ammo. Anyone can use it, either by themselves or through squadmates. People play Vanguard to enjoy head-butting goons all over the place and go berserk with a shotgun (at least everyone I know). The ME3 Adept doesn't have anything like that.

[mitthrawuodo]

Abraham_uk wrote...

If you're refeering to bonus powers, such as reeve and slam, well energy drain and neural shock are also available to all classes. Only the adept can use singularity and only the engineer can use the turret.

Also all classes can use an assault rifle. So is the soldier also "business as usual"?

Yes there are overlaps, but Adept is its own separate identity. The six classes are completly different in playstyle and how you approach each situation. I'm sorry but I just don't buy this argument.

The idea all classes an use all guns have one important snag. Guns=weight. Weight=more power rechargetime. So playing classes like adept with assault rifles could mean waiting ages for powers to recharge

[Shepard the Leper]

m14567 wrote...

It doesn't look like any other class is going to be able to leverage pull/throw combos but the Adept so that something at least.

I don't disagree about the grenade and Liara, I would have dropped stasis from her (maybe replacing it with dominate, late-developing Ardat-Yakshi FTW!)

I think Bioware is trying to improve the adept class but I imagine it is not easy and I'm sure you are the last person that wants ME 1 style biotics.

I definitely don't want ME1's biotic to make a return. I actually liked ME2's version and with all the new evolutions we're getting way more options to custumize powers to suit our needs. All great. But when I look at the other five classes and their abilities, I feel sorry for the Adept. If biotics are going to be awesome - not completely OP but very useful - it doesn't change anything about the argument.

[Jon Phoenix]

Further to my previous post let's use our imagination for a bit.

Imagine you know nothing about the new powers in ME3 but the team has come up with two new powers and are in the process of adding those powers to classes.

One power is "Nova" (does what we all know it does) and the other is a "Biotic Grenade". The Adept and the Vanguard both need one of those powers, which do you give to which?

The answer from most of you should be clear, the majority of people will give the Adept "Nova" and the Vanguard "Biotic Grenade" because those fit with their character archetype (we'll come back to gameplay archetypes later), pure biotic and combat biotic respectively best. Now if Overpower had never been on the cards I think that would be how everything shakes out.

Now unfortunately BW tied their hands a little by releasing the info early (voluntarily and involuntarily) meaning that a switch is now all but impossible. The end result the Vanguard has two of the most iconic powers in the game and the adept has none, being that Singularity is now no longer a unique power and biotic grenade seems somewhat lackluster (lore wise anyway).

For those arguing that Nova fits the Vanguard play style, I see where you are coming from, but to me it reeks of repetitive chaining of the same powers. It seems to me that the Vanguard will do the following over and over again. Charge, Nova, Shotgun, Charge (recharge shield), Nova, Shotgun...repeat ad nauseum. Do you really want that? I'm sure some of you do, but to me that is the definition of dull.

I think the better option for the Vanguard is to have Charge key off the Heavy Melee attack. The Vanguard (and to a lesser extent the infiltrator) are the only classes that can actively pursue using their Heavy Melee. For every other class it is really a last resort option at best when the enemy gets too close. The Vanguard automatically closes to H2H range using charge and the infiltrator could cloak and move in order to execute their heavy melee attack. So for the Vanguard the heavy melee and Nova provide a lot of overlap, sure I get that Nova affects more dudes, but they still overlap.

Because their is so much overlap between the Heavy Melee and Nova I think that shipping Nova to the Adept would the best idea, giving Biotic Grenade to the Vanguard gives them something they don't already have a mid ranged AOE (allowing for the addition of a different style of gameplay, rather than adding an extra layer to an already existing play style). For the Adept Nova really represents a short ranged non targeted warp blast (the animation might have needed to be changed but the general feeling of the power would still fit with the concept of the Adept).

I do feel that the Adept has been a bit hard done by in the unique department which a feel is a shame. Singularity is still an awesome power and Warp bombs are still awesome, but adding Biotic Grenades smacks of desperation for an idea when Overpower didn't work out. I didn't really like the concept of Overpower so not sad to see it go, but would have liked a more fitting replacement. I would have even been happy with Dominate as a class skill since I loved using that with my Adept.

[implodinggoat]

mitthrawuodo wrote...

The idea all classes an use all guns have one important snag. Guns=weight. Weight=more power rechargetime. So playing classes like adept with assault rifles could mean waiting ages for powers to recharge

I doubt it will be too bad if you just roll with one of the smaller assault rifles and a pistol or light SMG although packing a Revenant might not be in the cards.

I think an Avenger + scoped Phalanx  (All purpose Assault rifle + Accurate scoped pistol) combo or a Vindicator + Shuriken (Accurate Assault Rifle + light SMG)  may end up being go to loadouts for Adepts and Engineers.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 22 janvier 2012 - 03:51 .

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Personally, If I could create a new biotic power for the Adept, I'll add:
Overpower:
-Rank 1: +x% biotic damage, +x% newton to physics effect.
-Rank 2: -x% biotic cooldown, +x% biotic duration.
-Rank 3: longer Overpower.
-Rank 4: first biotic used explode on impact or first biotic used cause no cooldown.
-Rank 5: Overpower reset biotics cooldown or longer Overpower.
-Rank 6: Biotic powers ignore protections for physics effects or Biotics powers cause no global cooldown. (ME1 feeling again ^^)

Base duration would probably be about 10 seconds, cooldown would be about 60-90 seconds (should not be used more than once per battle), and of course it would have no global cooldown.

This idea can rightfully be used by Bioware.

Modifié par Kakita Tatsumaru, 22 janvier 2012 - 03:52 .

[Praetor Knight]

Hmm... would anyone else like plain old Lift to round out the base powers?

I'd love to have Lift and Pull to compliment Singularity, Warp and Throw.
And I wonder how Shockwave is gonna work? I just hope there's some really sweet improvements to it.

[implodinggoat]

I'm really amazed that anyone wants ME1 style biotics. I mean yeah they were powerful; but they were so powerful they broke the game. Soldier is my preferred class and I don't want to see the near invincibility of the Immunity power making a comeback because it also broke the game.

I agree that Biotics should give you more options against enemies with protection but if the game let you just yank any enemy into the air with Pull or Singularity then I think the charm of complete dominance would wear off real quick.

[implodinggoat]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Hmm... would anyone else like plain old Lift to round out the base powers?

I'd love to have Lift and Pull to compliment Singularity, Warp and Throw.
And I wonder how Shockwave is gonna work? I just hope there's some really sweet improvements to it.

Lift and Pull are pretty near identical, so I really don't see any point in having both of them.

PS:  One of the final evolutions of Shockwave is "Lift Shockwave" it casts lift on any unprotected enemy that gets hit with it and sets them up for a warp combo.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 22 janvier 2012 - 04:02 .

[Praetor Knight]

implodinggoat wrote...

I'm really amazed that anyone wants ME1 style biotics. I mean yeah they were powerful; but they were so powerful they broke the game. Soldier is my preferred class and I don't want to see the near invincibility of the Immunity power making a comeback because it also broke the game.

I agree that Biotics should give you more options against enemies with protection but if the game let you just yank any enemy into the air with Pull or Singularity then I think the charm of complete dominance would wear off real quick.

I agree, I definitely would not want to have powers in ME3 like ME1 talents.

As for the Lift idea I was mulling over, it should work exactly like Pull, except it would not draw the enemy towards Shepard like Pull does, just hovering some short distance above ground and then tweaked by the evolutions from there.

implodinggoat wrote...

Lift and Pull are pretty near identical, so I really don't see any point in having both of them.

PS:  One of the final evolutions of Shockwave is "Lift Shockwave" it casts lift on any unprotected enemy that gets hit with it and sets them up for a warp combo.

Ah, nevermind then with my thought. I didn't know about those details with Shockwave.
Sweet.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 22 janvier 2012 - 04:05 .