When i said 'who cares'?, i meant why would you care unless it had some impact on RPGs.Seagloom wrote...
I did several times. Then I decided there was no good reason to.bussinrounds wrote...
Obviously, because of the impact it had on RPGs. Otherwise, who cares ?
I do? The first two sentences in my previous post were misleading. Of course I understand the idea behind this thread. I just find it impressively selfish to presume my personal tastes should influence a genre beloved by millions. I do not care if anyone else wants to share their chosen game. It is their right to. Just as I felt it was my right to criticize the entire concept as indulgent. Then again this is the Off Topic forum. Everything here is indulgent.
"If you could eliminate one RPG from existance, which would it be?"
Débuté par
Volus Warlord
, janv. 21 2012 02:54
#51
Posté 21 janvier 2012 - 11:32
bussinrounds
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Retour en haut
#52
Posté 21 janvier 2012 - 11:34
lv12medic
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Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor.
As for the Video... A Lab View shirt? I can not take this person seriously ever again.
As for the Video... A Lab View shirt? I can not take this person seriously ever again.
#53
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 12:04
csfteeeer
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RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
PS:T. It was good, but it wasn't as good as people claim it was.
Bite your tongue.
Hard.
and make Sure it hurts.
#55
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 12:10
ObserverStatus
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too bad it has to be a whole franchise. wouldn't want to eliminate vanilla WoW, but I wouldn't mind eliminating all of its expansions.
#57
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 12:14
Da_Lion_Man
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Upsettingshorts wrote...
Can I ban one group of RPG fans from existence? That'd un-"split" the fanbase real quick!
Stupid question is stupid.
#58
Guest_simfamUP_*
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 01:10
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Nameless one7 wrote...
RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
PS:T. It was good, but it wasn't as good as people claim it was.
I'm going to put you in a spaceship and send you into the sun for saying that!
I didn't expect that type of critisism of PS:T...even in the BSN...
#59
Guest_simfamUP_*
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 01:17
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Addai67 wrote...
I don't make my dislike of a game personal to its fans, but the fact that you do just proves my point.Upsettingshorts wrote...
Can I ban one group of RPG fans from existence? That'd un-"split" the fanbase real quick!
Stupid question is stupid.
I think he's generalising. I do it too. I don't like the Elder Scrolls fans because personally I find them immature, childish and they troll far to often. But ofcourse, there are ALOT of Elder Scrolls fans who don't do the latter.
#60
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 01:48
Jozape
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I'd say World of Warcraft. So many people have wasted so much time and thought on that game, that getting rid of it would only be doing the world a favor. I could see the arguments for worse role-playing games, but people only play them 1/100th the amount of time they do World of Warcraft.
#61
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 01:56
Farbautisonn
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I think anyone who replies "PS:T" on this forum is trolling. Hard. I have yet to see PS:T be beaten... even if Witcher does try.
Back on topic:
I think that the easier question would be "which games to keep". Most of the CRPG's I've come across are crap. Bioware/Obsidian/Witcher series are usually great value for money. Bethesda shows signs of moving more from FPS Sandbox toward storytelling, but most games in my time have been a waste of time and Ive grown bored with them just from reading the hook on the packages.
Back on topic:
I think that the easier question would be "which games to keep". Most of the CRPG's I've come across are crap. Bioware/Obsidian/Witcher series are usually great value for money. Bethesda shows signs of moving more from FPS Sandbox toward storytelling, but most games in my time have been a waste of time and Ive grown bored with them just from reading the hook on the packages.
#62
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 02:11
Seagloom
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Disliking PST hardly constitutes trolling.
Planescape: Torment is not perfect. Despite being the best story driven RPG I played, it gets several important things wrong. Combat is terrible and rarely requires a shred of tactics or planning. class selection and advancement is simplistic. While there are multiple quest solutions they always boil down to brute force or picking the right dialogue option based on the Nameless One's stats.
In terms of actual role-playing freedom, Fallout and Arcanum drop kick Planescape: Torment through a tenth story window into a pit of barbed spikes. Not because they tell better stories or have tighter dialogue. That surely is not the case. Rather, because role-playing permeates those games. They offer ways to interact meaningfully with the world outside the constraints of dialogue.
I adore Planescape: Torment for doing a few things differently that no other developer has attempted since. However, I do not think those differences catipult it to the pinnacle of RPGs. To accomplish that it would require near perfection across the board. Other games have come closer to achieving that than Planescape: Torment in my opinion.
Planescape: Torment is not perfect. Despite being the best story driven RPG I played, it gets several important things wrong. Combat is terrible and rarely requires a shred of tactics or planning. class selection and advancement is simplistic. While there are multiple quest solutions they always boil down to brute force or picking the right dialogue option based on the Nameless One's stats.
In terms of actual role-playing freedom, Fallout and Arcanum drop kick Planescape: Torment through a tenth story window into a pit of barbed spikes. Not because they tell better stories or have tighter dialogue. That surely is not the case. Rather, because role-playing permeates those games. They offer ways to interact meaningfully with the world outside the constraints of dialogue.
I adore Planescape: Torment for doing a few things differently that no other developer has attempted since. However, I do not think those differences catipult it to the pinnacle of RPGs. To accomplish that it would require near perfection across the board. Other games have come closer to achieving that than Planescape: Torment in my opinion.
Modifié par Seagloom, 22 janvier 2012 - 02:18 .
#63
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 02:20
Get Magna Carter
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If retrospectively so the game never existed breath of fire 3 ... I wasted 20 hours as a kid who couldn't speak constantly running away from bad guys until I gave up out of boredom.
if not retrospective then none of them
if not retrospective then none of them
#64
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 02:21
Farbautisonn
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APOSTATE!!!
No, seriously. I dont see how any game comes close in interparty dialogue and character development, depth of lore and story, and primary character evolvement. Really. I dont. Plus I like a gamesetting that isnt your average steriotyped "good vs evil" but more in "Its gray, shades of gray, deal with it, and take the consequenses of your actions".
Sure FO is great (Never tried arcanum... didnt seem to appeal to me), but since Im more of a Lore and story hound than anything else, its not for me. If I can play an RPG without ever having to resort to violence once, thats grand by me. If I can play politics, even better. Its a legacy from my pen and paper days.
No, seriously. I dont see how any game comes close in interparty dialogue and character development, depth of lore and story, and primary character evolvement. Really. I dont. Plus I like a gamesetting that isnt your average steriotyped "good vs evil" but more in "Its gray, shades of gray, deal with it, and take the consequenses of your actions".
Sure FO is great (Never tried arcanum... didnt seem to appeal to me), but since Im more of a Lore and story hound than anything else, its not for me. If I can play an RPG without ever having to resort to violence once, thats grand by me. If I can play politics, even better. Its a legacy from my pen and paper days.
#65
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 02:37
Seagloom
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You are stating it is best based on your preferences. Except not everyone will share your preferences. I appreciate nonviolent solutions as much as anyone who is not psychotic, but to me combat and interaction with the landscape is important.
Take playing a thief in Arcanum, for example. You had to pay attention to lighting conditions to sneak. That could involve waiting until its night or quietly removing sources of light. Bodies needed hiding in the darkness to avoid making the authorities hostile. You could break into any store and steal from the same inventories you shop from. It was possible to plant evidence on people using pickpocket to get through quests, or bypass obstacles outright by sneaking. In other words, playing a thief was a very different experience from going guns a'blazing, slinging spells, or being diplomatic. Just as playing a technologist was differed from them all.
Contrast this with Planescape: Torment. Backstab, hide to prepare a backstab or scout, pick pockets and disarm traps. Whee. Lots of variation there from swinging an axe at a guy instead. You still had the same conversations and interacted with the world in the same way. The only meaningful variation came from stat distribution affecting dialogue. class selection was mostly pointless beyond a few brief dialogues and player preference.
Compared to Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, Deus Ex, or the previously mentioned two games, Planescape: Torment was very limited in ways. It sacrificed everything to the altar of storytelling. In my opinion, that is insufficient to make it the best RPG ever. It satisfactorily supports too few play styles for that; and handles combat, and mechanical character development poorly.
Not that any game has balanced multiple elements perfectly. Only that other games have done a better job of catering to different play styles than Planescape: Torment has.
Take playing a thief in Arcanum, for example. You had to pay attention to lighting conditions to sneak. That could involve waiting until its night or quietly removing sources of light. Bodies needed hiding in the darkness to avoid making the authorities hostile. You could break into any store and steal from the same inventories you shop from. It was possible to plant evidence on people using pickpocket to get through quests, or bypass obstacles outright by sneaking. In other words, playing a thief was a very different experience from going guns a'blazing, slinging spells, or being diplomatic. Just as playing a technologist was differed from them all.
Contrast this with Planescape: Torment. Backstab, hide to prepare a backstab or scout, pick pockets and disarm traps. Whee. Lots of variation there from swinging an axe at a guy instead. You still had the same conversations and interacted with the world in the same way. The only meaningful variation came from stat distribution affecting dialogue. class selection was mostly pointless beyond a few brief dialogues and player preference.
Compared to Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, Deus Ex, or the previously mentioned two games, Planescape: Torment was very limited in ways. It sacrificed everything to the altar of storytelling. In my opinion, that is insufficient to make it the best RPG ever. It satisfactorily supports too few play styles for that; and handles combat, and mechanical character development poorly.
Not that any game has balanced multiple elements perfectly. Only that other games have done a better job of catering to different play styles than Planescape: Torment has.
Modifié par Seagloom, 22 janvier 2012 - 02:43 .
#66
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 03:10
Farbautisonn
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Seagloom wrote...
What we have here is an exchange of subjective opinions. I too agree that a thief etc should "act" the part and that this was NOT done as it "should" have been in PS:T. But PS:T was created in a time where the game mechanics didnt really support that. They still don't really.
Most games, even the best ones, are a series of compromises that ends up with a certain focus. The focus of PS:T was storytelling. I like storytelling, so naturally that game appealed to me. Your focus seems to be more in the realm of "believeable actions" (IE the thief having to search for appropriate environments to be able to hide himself). I can undestand that. I support that. But for me, it seems more of an "FPS" thing, a "Hitman-47 esque" thing, where the focus isnt the story, but the character being able to interact with his environment.
Ideally the "best" RPG would be able to combine the "environment", storytelling, politics, strategic thinking, small unit tactics, economics, logic, etc into a RP sandbox simulation. However given the restraints by technology, economics involved, and manhours needed for such a game, I consider it highly unlikely we will see such a game, in my lifetime that is.
What we are left with are games that cater to our specific focus. PS:T focused on traditional RPG storytelling. I am a traditional pen and paper RPG lore hound. So, for me, that worked, and made PS:T the best game yet for me. For you, not so much. Thats it really.
#68
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 03:47
Nameless one7
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I believe most people love Planescape Torment because of the great story, if other video games had as good of stories as Planescape Torment I believe they would have the rabid fandom, as of now, I haven't played any video game with a story as good as planescape torment's.
#69
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 03:58
RinpocheSchnozberry
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If someone loves the actual story of PS:T, that's great. I won't argue against anyone's enjoyment of a particular good story. It was certainly a fun way to preset a story and a unique way to tell a great story.
The rest of PS:T, as a video game, was crap. Crap. I would love to blow it that game out of time. That way people would stop pointing to it as a great game. It was not.
The rest of PS:T, as a video game, was crap. Crap. I would love to blow it that game out of time. That way people would stop pointing to it as a great game. It was not.
#70
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 03:59
RinpocheSchnozberry
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Melrache wrote...
Skyrim.
I may disagree strongly with your post, but I will agree strongly with you avatar. <3<3<3
Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 22 janvier 2012 - 03:59 .
#72
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 04:06
Nameless one7
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RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
If someone loves the actual story of PS:T, that's great. I won't argue against anyone's enjoyment of a particular good story. It was certainly a fun way to preset a story and a unique way to tell a great story.
The rest of PS:T, as a video game, was crap. Crap. I would love to blow it that game out of time. That way people would stop pointing to it as a great game. It was not.
The gameplay was great for that period of time, and the gameplay is still good today with mods. And it is a Great Game, Chrono Trigger Trigger and Planescape Torment have stood the test of time better then most other games I've played.
#73
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 04:09
slimgrin
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Fortlowe wrote...
We have a winner.
Modifié par slimgrin, 22 janvier 2012 - 04:09 .
#74
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 04:14
RinpocheSchnozberry
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slimgrin wrote...
Fortlowe wrote...
We have a winner.
Agreed.
Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 22 janvier 2012 - 04:14 .
#75
Posté 22 janvier 2012 - 04:16
RinpocheSchnozberry
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Nameless one7 wrote...
The gameplay was great for that period of time, and the gameplay is still good today with mods. And it is a Great Game, Chrono Trigger Trigger and Planescape Torment have stood the test of time better then most other games I've played.
Sir, we shall have to disagree. Thus, I shall high five you, HIGH FIVE, and we shall part as bronies.
:)
