249 réponses à ce sujet

[omgodzilla]

I don't see why they couldn't have made a Reaper win scenario. It would be fun to watch I think.

[Ieldra]

Update 2011/01/22. More details from the article:

(16) Liara will join Shepard's team on Mars.

(17) Shepard will not command fleets or move around armies. (not sure if this also applies to the endgame)

(18) EVERYTHING Shepard does will affect the war. Story missions, sidequests and even exploration minigames.

(19) There will be a menu listing everyone's contributions to the war assets. Casey Hudson: "For example, there may be an entry for the quarian fleet, which is worth a crazy amount of points, and an entry for a single guy you've met in a bar and convinced to join the army, who is possibly worth a single point."

And about the krogan on board: I found the quote again, and Casey Hudson did indeed say there will be a krogan on board, as an example that there will always be a character around personally affected by Shepard's story decisions.

I have updated the OP to include this information.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 janvier 2012 - 09:37 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

omgodzilla wrote...

I don't see why they couldn't have made a Reaper win scenario. It would be fun to watch I think.

I was honestly hoping it could be like a Shepard dying scenario in ME2. 

Except here he leaves a message for later life and freezes himself in a tomb, like the Protheans in ME1.

[rhyddhau]

Regarding the "Reapers win" scenario: All that BioWare needs to do is include a 30 second video of the Reapers devastating various worlds/people being massacred, much like the bad ending of Arrival, and I think most people would be completely satisfied with that. Frankly, they set the expectation for its inclusion with Arrival, so they they can't really choose not to include something minor like this and then expect people to not be disappointed.

[Ieldra]

Since the lack of a "Reapers Win" scenario has resulted in so much debate, let me give you the full quote of what Casey Hudson said (translation by me):

"The problem with defeats is that they never feel right for the player. If you're defeated, you don't cheer and say 'Wow, this was a great game', but you re-load and try to get a better result. After all, you play to win."

I think Casey Hudson is dead wrong with the last statement. Games like Mass Effect we do not play primarily to win, we play to experience a story we can influence. Why else would so many players add a death or two to ME2's suicide mission voluntarily? And an ending where all Shepard can do is to warn the next cycle before the galaxy goes to hell would be absolutely awesome as a story. It wouldn't even be a total defeat, since there is still hope. For intelligent organic life in the galaxy, if not for humanity.

What I concede is that likely only a small minority of players would go for such an ending, and maybe that's enough reason not to spend resources on it, but it would be those players for whom Bioware writes all the incredible details no one else notices, those players who might appreciate the game as a work of art more than others. In the end, the lack of this "warn the next cycle" ending is not a great deal, but it is a lost opportunity that saddens me.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 janvier 2012 - 09:58 .

[Ieldra]

Updated entry (12) about the CB decision and its consequences:

Update - translated quote from the article "At the end of the game, everything can happen. Then even the big decision you had to make at the end of Mass Effect 2 will have an effect." The follow-up that it will have a big and meaningful consequence appears to be more speculation by the writer of the article than real information.

[Remus Artega]

So no join the reapers scenario (that is not fully reapers win scenario is it?)

[Ieldra]

Remus Artega wrote...
So no join the reapers scenario (that is not fully reapers win scenario is it?)

All Casey Hudson said is that there won't be a defeat scenario. Should you agree with the Reapers' goals (why they have them will be fully revealed) then joining the Reapers isn't a defeat. Having said that, even after having read the leaked script, I have no idea if any of the endings can be summarized as "joining the Reapers". I suspect that the statement in the article means that galactic civilization will survive in some form and the Reapers won't be a threat anymore, even though a large part of the galaxy may be laid to waste in the worse endings.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 janvier 2012 - 10:36 .

[CroGamer002]

^Joining the Reapers would mean waste of time in entire ME3 trilogy.

Whole point was to stop them at all costs.

[Pride Demon]

Mesina2 wrote...

^Joining the Reapers would mean waste of time in entire ME3 trilogy.

Whole point was to stop them at all costs.

Indeed...

Ieldra 2 wrote...
(5) Reaper-controlled territory will change as the story progresses, but
only main plot decisions trigger these changes. You'll have all the
time you need for sidequests.

So I guess it will work the same as the darkspawn invasion in DAO... A resonable compromise I believe...

Ieldra 2 wrote...
(19) There will be a menu listing everyone's contributions to the war
assets. Casey Hudson: "For example, there may be an entry for the
quarian fleet, which is worth a crazy amount of points, and an entry for
a single guy you've met in a bar and convinced to join the army, who is
possibly worth a single point."

Shepard: "Hey there, Zaeed! Fancy meeting you here! How 'bout I buy you a drink and you help me save the guddam galaxy?"

[Ieldra]

Mesina2 wrote...
^Joining the Reapers would mean waste of time in entire ME3 trilogy.

Whole point was to stop them at all costs.

There is a non-zero probability that after their full backstory is revealed, you will agree with their goals. Not very likely, admittedly, but possible.

@Pride Demon:
Zaeed joining might be the closest we get to defeat: The Reapers would be destroyed, but Zaeed would be the only man surviving.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 janvier 2012 - 10:50 .

[Remus Artega]

But you should admit the possibility of them persuading you that their cause can be legitimate and may provide something beyond our mortal understanding.

[TobyHasEyes]

 It would be a TINY minority of players who, if they reached an ending where the Reapers won, sat back and was satisfied as opposed to loading up an earlier section and trying to do something differently to help you win

[Nohvarr]

For the Reaper territory think, I'm imagining a Pac-Man style minigame in which you control the Normandy as Reapers drones track you down. However, if you manage to snage the prothean power up you can turn the tables on them...

[rhyddhau]

Also, as others have pointed out, the sheer knowledge that a Reaper victory exists in the game (regardless of the likelihood of this conclusion), and the fear of how unpleasant and horrifying that ending might be, would give the proceedings underlying Shepard's mission much more gravitas, urgency and sense of impending doom. That failure doesn't truly exist in a fully-fleshed state, even if 95% of players never saw said ending, automatically cripples any realism in the narrative (in-so-far as internal consistency within the game world is concerned) the developers have obviously be striving for.

It's a really wasted opportunity and, sadly, will likely diminish the gaming experience for many players.:/

Modifié par rhyddhau, 22 janvier 2012 - 11:17 .

[Ieldra]

Nohvarr wrote...
For the Reaper territory think, I'm imagining a Pac-Man style minigame in which you control the Normandy as Reapers drones track you down. However, if you manage to snage the prothean power up you can turn the tables on them...

Not something that formalized I would think. More like this:

Imagine the ME2 in-system travel screen. Now let some Reapers be distributed over the system. Every Reaper has a defined detection range indicated on your map. You must find a way to your target location without getting into detection range of any Reaper. And they are moving, too. If you get into detection range, you can attempt to flee and leave the system, or get into a fight which is resolved using the local Reaper's strength vs. Normany ship upgrades. Not sure about which kind of bad results they would want to implement though.

[Candidate 88766]

rhyddhau wrote...

Also, as others have pointed out, the sheer knowledge that a Reaper victory exists in the game (regardless of the likelihood of this conclusion), and the fear of how unpleasant and horrifying that ending might be, would give the proceedings underlying Shepard's mission much more gravitas, urgency and sense of impending doom. That failure doesn't truly exist in a fully-fleshed state, even if 95% of players never saw said ending, automatically cripples any realism in the narrative (in-so-far as internal consistency within the game world is concerned) the developers have obviously be striving for.

It's a really wasted opportunity and, sadly, will likely diminish the gaming experience for many players.:/

There was no way to fail in ME1. It was obvious from the start that Shepard would win. That didn't make the end run any less tense or exciting though.

[Ieldra]

rhyddhau wrote...
Also, as others have pointed out, the sheer knowledge that a Reaper victory exists in the game (regardless of the likelihood of this conclusion), and the fear of how unpleasant and horrifying that ending might be, would give the proceedings underlying Shepard's mission much more gravitas, urgency and sense of impending doom. That failure doesn't truly exist in a fully-fleshed state, even if 95% of players never saw said ending, automatically cripples any realism in the narrative (in-so-far as internal consistency within the game world is concerned) the developers have obviously be striving for.

It's a really wasted opportunity and, sadly, will likely diminish the gaming experience for many players.:/

I do not agree. Of course the possibility that the Reapers might win exists in-universe, and the probability of that happening is high. And there will, of course, be situations where you get a game over screen, indicating failure. Bioware just chose to not implement any special narrative for such an ending on the reasoning that as a rule, players do not want to see defeats. Which is a valid point, btw - do you really enjoy books, movies etc.. where the hero loses? As a rule, I'd say no. It could have been done in a meaningful way in this case (the warning-the-next-cycle scenario), and that's why this decision is indeed a wasted opportunity, but it hardly dimishes the experience of the whole game. Not for an overwhelming majority of players anyway.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 janvier 2012 - 11:29 .

[l shneier]

if a reaper victory would have existed i would go back to me1 and start a brand new play through where i pick only neutral options or obvious anti war prep options such as kill wrex kill rachni kill council don't work for nasseana us paragon glitch so i can spare lord Darius. then import into 2 and leave everyone not loyal for thane and samarea pick bad options in sm leave david to cerbus give up cb and so onn leaving it to be only 3 people left as well as joker and chakwas and no carry over squad outside of me1 survivors to me3 and then see what the worst possible ending could have been.

[Icinix]

Poor random dude worth only one point.

I'd feel bad convincing him to fight.

Also - devo we won't get some element of moving armies / fleet command. I was really hoping for even a small part of this involved at some stage - but ahh well - no biggie.

[TobyHasEyes]

Remus Artega wrote...

But you should admit the possibility of them persuading you that their cause can be legitimate and may provide something beyond our mortal understanding.

 Beyond our mortal understanding, but within their mortal understanding (as they are mortal too)

 Arguably if it is beyond your understanding, you shouldn't agree to it; supporting it would simply be a deference to supposed authority

Modifié par TobyHasEyes, 22 janvier 2012 - 11:38 .

[Remus Artega]

Well I did enjoy Witcher for example...and we how that ends...

[double02]

Thanks. Interesting..

[l shneier]

its not that i don't want only win outcomes but it would have been fun to see a reaper victory just once even if only over YouTube. just so i knew that i could fail, so i was motivated constantly to get the best possible outcome

[didymos1120]

Icinix wrote...

Poor random dude worth only one point.

I'd feel bad convincing him to fight.

This gives me an idea: I think if you screw up and fail to convince Conrad to stay the hell out of the way, it should deduct points.