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[Isichar]

Kariya is the weakest and easily most uninteresting "master" in Fate/Zero for me. At the start I could see him getting interesting but as time flew by I even started to forget his existance and his name went missing almost as soon as he left the screen. He did face rather stiff competition from pretty much everyone else so that may have made me forget him faster than I'd otherwise would've

 

Kariya was my favorite

 

I'm pissed off how his story ended though. It was basically the biggest **** you I've ever seen to a character in anime. It's like the story, writer and everyone bent over backwards to give him the shittiest possible conclusion ever to the point were it felt like I was just watching Kireis unadulterated  wet dream. That last line with Sakura was just another slap in the face and has actively made me dislike her.

[Mr.House]

While I agree that it can be seen as his fault, that's kind of a narrow view of the whole thing. The family head was scum, and he didn't want to essentially do his bidding. In refusing, Sakura was the one made to suffer, but that wasn't his intention, and he literally gave his life in a pretty painful manner trying to free her from the hell he had unintentionally brought upon her.

Zoukan would have never adopted Sakura had Kariya not run from his duties.

[Mr.House]

Kariya was my favorite

 

I'm pissed off how his story ended though. It was basically the biggest **** you I've ever seen to a character in anime. It's like the story, writer and everyone bent over backwards to give him the shittiest possible conclusion ever to the point were it felt like I was just watching Kireis wet dream. That last like with Sakura was just another slap in the face.

Eh, even if Gen WANTED Kariya to win, that would be imposeable. That would have caused a massive plothole and contradict Sakuras whole plotline in Stay Night.
 

[Ghost Lightning]

Zoukan would have never adopted Sakura had Kariya not run from his duties.

 

I know. That's why I agree that Kariya can be found somewhat guilty due to circumstance. But it isn't directly his fault. If I refuse to take up my father's business and he goes out and buys child slaves in my stead, I'm not the one guilty of enslaving children. And that I would actively and intentionally suffer painful torture to emancipate said child slaves is something I'd personally consider pretty noble. 

[Zeroth Angel]

Seriously though, screw some of the three magi families! Especially Zouken and Jubstacheit!

[Isichar]

Eh, even if Gen WANTED Kariya to win, that would be imposeable. That would have caused a massive plothole and contradict Sakuras whole plotline in Stay Night.

 

I didn't expect him to win. I just don't like when a story bends over backwards to screw a character over in every possible way.

 

Right from start to finish he was just getting **** on for trying to do the right thing to the point where it turns into 2 of the major players in the war are just actively amused at watching him suffer for no other reason, which they get just fine.

[Isichar]

Zoukan would have never adopted Sakura had Kariya not run from his duties.

 

True though I doubt he knew that would happen.

 

If I was Kariya I might have done the same... I mean why would any decent person want anything to do with Zoukan? The guy is a complete psychopath who is bent on getting immortality and watching people suffer. If I was his son I probably would have hightailed it out of there too.

[Mr.House]

True though I doubt he knew that.

 

If I was Kariya I might have done the same... I mean why would any decent person want anything to do with Zoukan? The guy is a completel psychopath who is bent on getting immortality and watching people suffer. If I was his son I probably would have hightailed it out of there too.

Zoukan is almost 500 years old, he has been the head of the Matou family for that long and was known by even the other two big families to be willing to do whatever it took to restore the magical blood in his family. Kariya was his last hope, I refuse to believe that Kariya did not know how much Zoukan desired it and how far he would go if he refused. He had to know Zoukan would do whatever he needed, no one else was surprised he adopted Sakura so how can a Matou be surprised that would happen? Once you are picked by your family to start your studies as a mage, you must make sacrifices. Rin did it, Waver scared his image for it. Many of the best mages in the series did a personal sacrifice, yet Kariya refused and this led to 11 years of pure hell to an innocent girl.

[Chewin]

Eh, Tokiomi was just a third rate mage who got what he deserved by Kotomine. Rin should be embarrassed by her father really.

 

Sure, but don't see what this has to do with the narrative spectrum.

 

Personally, it does not help that I read the VN so I already know what Sakura went through in graphic detail, to learn that all of this could have been avoided had Kariya just accepted his duty as a Matou, so much stuff would have been avoided.

 

*grumble grumble*

 

Well that is quite a narrow outlook on it, considering the events that lead up to his actions. Sure it is all ultimately in vein on his part, but I found his viewpoint as a reactionary (and his stereotype) to be interesting to follow, and it was coherent to his character. Sure I can understand the frustration, but it isn't bad for it. 

[Liamv2]

But the one piece was friendship all along. The one peace.

[Mr.House]

Seriously though, screw some of the three magi families! Especially Zouken and Jubstacheit!

Rin, best magical head.

[Isichar]

Zoukan is almost 500 years old, he has been the head of the Matou family for that long and was known by even the other two big families to be willing to do whatever it took to restore the magical blood in his family. Kariya was his last hope, I refuse to believe that Kariya did not know how much Zoukan desired it and how far he would go if he refused. He had to know Zoukan would do whatever he needed, no one else was surprised he adopted Sakura so how can a Matou be surprised that would happen? Once you are picked by your family to start your studies as a mage, you must make sacrifices. Rin did it, Waver scared his image for it. Many of the best mages in the series did a personal sacrifice, yet Kariya refused and this led to 11 years of pure hell to an innocent girl.

 

I have to completely disagree 100% here. The others who weren't surprised were actively taking part in the grail war, he wanted nothing to do with it. As for the "he should have known Zoukan would do whatever it takes" seems like that's just throwing blame on him that wasn't his fault to begin with. What should he have done about that? Should he have just happily played the role of a puppet for Zoukans goals then?

 

Zoukan was a psychopath, blaming Kariya for his actions just seems silly to me.

[Zeroth Angel]

Rin, best magical head.

Totally! Zeltrech has some good taste in magical families.

[Chewin]

Zoukan is almost 500 years old, he has been the head of the Matou family for that long and was known by even the other two big families to be willing to do whatever it took to restore the magical blood in his family. Kariya was his last hope, I refuse to believe that Kariya did not know how much Zoukan desired it and how far he would go if he refused. He had to know Zoukan would do whatever he needed, no one else was surprised he adopted Sakura so how can a Matou be surprised that would happen? Once you are picked by your family to start your studies as a mage, you must make sacrifices. Rin did it, Waver scared his image for it. Many of the best mages in the series did a personal sacrifice, yet Kariya refused and this led to 11 years of pure hell to an innocent girl.

 

Why would he, he is a failed magus and wants nothing of that life, so naturally he doesn't want to involve Sakura. He is delusional in his fight, and wants nothing but to return into that time with Aoi, Rin and Sakura which he is obsessed with and which is featured heavily in Zero and what gradually leads to his demise. 

[Ghost Lightning]

I haven't watched the first season yet, but looking at this, I feel like I might wanna watch S1 and skip S2. That and the loss of that one guy who writes the things.

[Mr.House]

I have to completely disagree 100% here. The others who weren't surprised were actively taking part in the grail war, he wanted nothing to do with it. As for the "he should have known Zoukan would do whatever it takes" seems like that's just throwing blame on him that wasn't his fault to begin with. What is he do about that? Should he have just happily played the role of a puppet for his goals then?

All mages know they must make a personal sacrifice, if they don't then the head of said family will find another way. Kariya knows the magic, the training and dark secrets of his family, it's not like we are dealing with a magical family like say Emiya. The Matous and their magic is not only known to their members, but to the other two big family's and bulk oft he Mage association. Had Zoukan adopted someother child or did something else, you can bet your ass Kariya would have done nothing else, he is selfish. He only got involved because someone he personally knew and cared for was roped into something he knew was his own duty and had he made the sacrifice, someone he cared for would not have gone through hell. By the time Kariya even got there and decided to retake his place, it was already too late for Sakura. The damage was done and that is why Sakura is cold to him at the end and she had very good reasons to hate and be cold to him at the end.

[Liamv2]

I haven't watched the first season yet, but looking at this, I feel like I might wanna watch S1 and skip S2. That and the loss of that one guy who writes the things.

 

When I watch season 1 i'm gonna wait for opinions on season 2 to surface before watching. Switching writers in a second season rarely ends well.

[Mr.House]

What's wrong with Akane in Season 2? She's still the same Akane, just grown up and hardened after the events in season 1. She's not going to stay the same nor should she. If she stayed the same innocent naive woman she was in season 1, that would be horrible writing. Season 2 is fine so far.

[Liamv2]

What's wrong with Akane in Season 2? She's still the same Akane, just grown up and hardened after the events in season 1. She's not going to stay the same nor should she. If she stayed the same innocent naive woman she was in season 1, that would be horrible writing. Season 2 is fine so far.

 

Glad to hear it. I'm probably still gonna be patient on it though.

[Jstatham1227]

Testing. Good. it works. 

 

Sorry, new here. lel

[Isichar]

All mages know they must make a personal sacrifice, if they don't then the head of said family will find another way. Kariya knows the magic, the training and dark secrets of his family, it's not like we are dealing with a magical family like say Emiya. The Matous and their magic is not only known to their members, but to the other two big family's and bulk oft he Mage association. Had Zoukan adopted someother child or did something else, you can bet your ass Kariya would have done nothing else, he is selfish. He only got involved because someone he personally knew and cared for was roped into something he knew was his own duty and had he made the sacrifice, someone he cared for would not have gone through hell. By the time Kariya even got there and decided to retake his place, it was already too late for Sakura. The damage was done and that is why Sakura is cold to him at the end and she had very good reasons to hate and be cold to him at the end.

 

It seems like he's just getting all the blame for Zoukans actions because "he should have known"

 

As for him being selfish... who wasn't in this series? Like seriously. Many of the characters, including the main ones justified doing much, MUCH worse things in the name of their goals then he did.

 

What about Sakuras father? He knew exactly what would happen to her, and he didn't even seem remotely bothered by it.

[Isichar]

Testing. Good. it works. 

 

Sorry, new here. lel

 

Welcome friend to the insanity! MAhahhaAHHAHAHhahah

 

(A.K.A. The Sim zone)

 

Have a Sayaka gif!

[Liamv2]

Testing. Good. it works. 

 

Sorry, new here. lel

 

You chose to make your first post in a thread filled with heathenous eyeball lickers? An interesting move.

[CrazyRah]

Testing. Good. it works. 

 

Sorry, new here. lel

 

Isi, can I eat this one?