88264 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

So you decided to abandon us who haven't yet experienced what UBW has in store, and join the big guys beforehand?

 

FOR SHAME, REXY!!

 

Filthy peasant. Do not speak of that which you could never understand!

[Zeroth Angel]

So you decided to abandon us who haven't yet experienced what UBW has in store, and join the big guys beforehand?

 

FOR SHAME, REXY!!

 

 

Ok, this comment made me giggle.

 

Never change, Lotion.

 

Except for workable links. Improve on that.

 

 

Spoiler

Not to my recollection, no. He stated to Rin that he can do that as well aside from strengthening, so when he recreated Archer's swords was when he did it for the first time in the anime.

I believe that that was indeed the first time he had used it.

 

So I was right huh.

 

I've seen some people who think that

 

Spoiler

the scene where Shirou projects Archer's swords is an asspull because to them Shirou's abilities kind of came out of nowhere.

[Chewin]

Filthy peasant. Do not speak of that which you could never understand!

 

 

You dare raise your hand? You!? You who rushed to the feast and gorged everything before the event even began!? 

 

Despicable!

 

You don't even have the privilege of looking at me.

 

Pleib!

 

 

So I was right huh.

 

I've seen some people who think that

 

Spoiler

the scene where Shirou projects Archer's swords is an asspull because to them Shirou's abilities kind of came out of nowhere.

 

Well if one really wants to argue about that point--it is. 

 

The narrative of F/SN is kinda intangible in its approach; meaning the story utilizes avenues that gets introduced right then and there, seemingly out of nowhere which often leads to moments where the story tries to desperately  "one-up" itself with each consecutive event (especially with major revelations). Shirou getting the projection magic right then and there is one particular moment.

 

Of course, I'd argue that while such a statement is true, it is quite a disservice to F/SN's narrative, since it does quite a capable job in introducing elements subtlely enough for it not to fall into "plot convenience". Shirou did state that he could use projection magic, had been practicing it (although with poor success rates) and managed to get it right during that particular incident (be it due to willpower, adrenaline, or any other reason). I did enjoy that it had consequences that he was able to project it though. Gave the moment a stronger impact, and made it more believable.

[CrazyRah]

Having characters being able to do something for the first time when they REALLY need it to happen isn't an issue for me due to how "human" that actually is. People are capable of exceptional feats when pushed far enough and that one moment really is "far enough" to unlock what I could call emergency powers. The narrative had done sufficient groundwork to make it believeable to happen aswell

[Hellion Rex]

 

Of course, I'd argue that while such a statement is true, it is quite a disservice to F/SN's narrative, since it does quite a capable job in introducing elements subtlely enough for it not to fall into "plot convenience". Shirou did state that he could use projection magic, had been practicing it (although with poor success rates) and managed to get it right during that particular incident (be it due to willpower, adrenaline, or any other reason). I did enjoy that it had consequences that he was able to project it though. Gave the moment a stronger impact, and made it more believable.

Yeah, I mean, I can certainly understand where that argument is coming from. While Shirou did say he could do projection, no one could ever really expect him to pull off a projection of that magnitude. Swords that could not only block his sensei's fists and not break, but could also drive the other mage back.

[Hellion Rex]

Having characters being able to do something for the first time when they REALLY need it to happen isn't an issue for me due to how "human" that actually is. People are capable of exceptional feats when pushed far enough and that one moment really is "far enough" to unlock what I could call emergency powers. The narrative had done sufficient groundwork to make it believeable to happen aswell

That's also another good point. There's no greater motivator than the possibility of death. Unless he's under a serious amount of stress, I do not believe Shirou could pull off another projection like that on command.

[Chewin]

Having characters being able to do something for the first time when they REALLY need it to happen isn't an issue for me due to how "human" that actually is. People are capable of exceptional feats when pushed far enough and that one moment really is "far enough" to unlock what I could call emergency powers. The narrative had done sufficient groundwork to make it believeable to happen aswell

 

Yeah, pretty much. One need to only do a quick Google search to find out what people have managed to do when desperation has been a motivator. 

 

But as I said, if people want to argue about it then they are free to do so. I will however think that it is unnecessary barking up the wrong tree.

[Hellion Rex]

Damn, are you talking about Fate/Stay or Fate/Zero? All these discussions are fascinating, and now I'm kind of interested.

Fate/Stay UBW.

[Chewin]

Yeah, I mean, I can certainly understand where that argument is coming from. While Shirou did say he could do projection, no one could ever really expect him to pull off a projection of that magnitude. Swords that could not only block his sensei's fists and not break, but could also drive the other mage back.

 

True, though as I stated above; it having consequences gave the scene some weight by having Shirou open his magic circuits and damaging him, since he made such a reckless move. 

 

F/SN does a good job at incorporating aspects such as these into the narrative with several events, which I found is vital if one has a narrative format such as F/SN.

[Hellion Rex]

Yeah, pretty much. One need to only do a quick Google search to find out what people have managed to do when desperation has been a motivator. 

 

But as I said, if people want to argue about it then they are free to do so. I will however thing that it is unnecessary barking up the wrong tree.

The human is certainly capable of amazing things when they are scared or stressed.

 

Just the other day, I heard of a mother who literally lifted a truck off her child who had been hit by the car.

[CrazyRah]

The human is certainly capable of amazing things when they are scared or stressed.

 

Just the other day, I heard of a mother who literally lifted a truck off her child who had been hit by the car.

 

Yupp, heard a long time ago about a person lifting a helicopter because someone beloved was in mortal danger. The brain is on purpose holding us back but when unlocked the human body is kinda.. super!

[Hellion Rex]

True, though as I stated above; it having consequences gave the scene some weight by having Shirou open his magic circuits and damaging him, since he made such a reckless move. 

 

F/SN does a good job at incorporating aspects such as these into the narrative with several events, which I found is vital if one has a narrative format such as F/SN.

Quite. Having his circuits busted wide open like that was given credible weight by the amount of pain he experienced. Power like that does not come without consequences.

[Hellion Rex]

Yupp, heard a long time ago about a person lifting a helicopter because someone beloved was in mortal danger. The brain is on purpose holding us back but when unlocked the human body is kinda.. super!

Indeed. But the brain does put such blocks on us, because the repercussions of being in such a state for too long can be seriously dangerous.

[Zeroth Angel]

 

Well if one really wants to argue about that point--it is. 

 

The narrative of F/SN is kinda intangible in its approach; meaning the story utilizes avenues that gets introduced right then and there, seemingly out of nowhere which often leads to moments where the story tries to desperately  "one-up" itself with each consecutive event (especially with major revelations). Shirou getting the projection magic right then and there is one particular moment.

 

Of course, I'd argue that while such a statement is true, it is quite a disservice to F/SN's narrative, since it does quite a capable job in introducing elements subtlely enough for it not to fall into "plot convenience". Shirou did state that he could use projection magic, had been practicing it (although with poor success rates) and managed to get it right during that particular incident (be it due to willpower, adrenaline, or any other reason). I did enjoy that it had consequences that he was able to project it though. Gave the moment a stronger impact, and made it more believable.

 

Normaly it wouldn't really feel like something out of nowhere because we learn in the Fate route that Shirou can also use projection even before he uses it in battle.

 

That's why I hoped that Ufotable added a short scene somewhere Shirou projected something (not necessarily a weapon) and I simply forgot about it.

 

I don't have a problem with that scene myself but it's a complaint I have read here and there since this is supposed to be a sequel to FZ.

 

Having characters being able to do something for the first time when they REALLY need it to happen isn't an issue for me due to how "human" that actually is. People are capable of exceptional feats when pushed far enough and that one moment really is "far enough" to unlock what I could call emergency powers. The narrative had done sufficient groundwork to make it believeable to happen aswell

 

I agree with you Rah.

 

It's a good reason as to why it works in a stand alone UBW anime.

[Chewin]

The human is certainly capable of amazing things when they are scared or stressed.

 

Just the other day, I heard of a mother who literally lifted a truck off her child who had been hit by the car.

 

Hehe, mothers sure are a level on their own.

 

Quite. Having his circuits busted wide open like that was given credible weight by the amount of pain he experienced. Power like that does not come without consequences.

 

And as a particular anime thought us--it all comes down to equivalent exchange (hoho!).

[TheClonesLegacy]

Yupp, heard a long time ago about a person lifting a helicopter because someone beloved was in mortal danger. The brain is on purpose holding us back but when unlocked the human body is kinda.. super!

Adrenaline is a hell of a drug.

[Zeroth Angel]

Quite. Having his circuits busted wide open like that was given credible weight by the amount of pain he experienced. Power like that does not come without consequences.

 

Even Archer mentions how after his first projection he temporarily lost the use of one of his hands.

[Mr.House]

This discussion about FSN UBW reminds me about something.

 

UBW Anime spoilers

 

Spoiler

In episode 10 Shirou uses projection magic to recreate Archer's swords. My memory from the first two episodes isn't perfect but did Shirou use projection magic anywhere else in the anime? I mean before he made Archer's swords.

Fate route spoilers(CHewin can look, hell anyone can look if they want)

Spoiler

Alot of crap in the garage is in fact projection, Shirou never thought it was weird that it stayed in reality for so long, that was why in the fate route when Rin sees his workshop she wants to kill him for two reasons.

 

1:Shirous projection is not normal. No matter what a person projects it is hollow and disappears in a few hours. SHirous projections though can last days to years and are never hollow, this is even more powerful when it comes to swords as they are not only hollow and close to the real thing, he can even use their NP and by using their blades, he "downloads" their users skill so by using Caliburn he is fighting on Sabers level.

2:This is an extremely powe3rful and dangerous projection skill and Rin is pissed Shirou never really told her despite asking what he could do. (this also salighty comes up in UBW.

 

This is because unlike normal projection, Trace On follows 7 steps.

1. Judging the concept of creation
2. Hypothesizing the basic structure
3. Duplicating the composition material
4. Imitating the skill of its making
5. Sympathizing with the experience of its growth
6. Reproducing the accumulated years
7. Excelling every manufacturing process

This is why Shirous projection is so ****** powerful and why he can turn such a useless form of magic into something dangerous

Like I said anyone can read that as it's nothing that spoils the story, it's just details on Trace on Projection.

Currently rewatching UBW S1 in preparation for the holiness of next week.

Oh just wait till their rematch. Remember, Lancer was fighting at 50% of his strength(thanks to his masters command seal) in season 2 Lancer is now able to fight at full strength.

[Chewin]

Normaly it wouldn't really feel like something out of nowhere because we learn in the Fate route that Shirou can also use projection even before he uses it in battle.

 

That's why I hoped that Ufotable added a short scene somewhere Shirou projected something (not necessarily a weapon) and I simply forgot about it.

 

I don't have a problem with that scene myself but it's a complaint I have read here and there since this is supposed to be a sequel to FZ.

 

Well as I said in my post--Shirou did state he could do it and had been practicing.

 

The scene where he does it for the first time works just fine. Complaining about it is just arguing for the sake of arguing, imho.

[Chewin]

Fate route spoilers(CHewin can look, hell anyone can look if they want)

 

 

Haha! I like how Fate route has come to that

 

Oh just wait till their rematch. Remember, Lancer was fighting at 50% of his strength(thanks to his masters command seal) in season 2 Lancer is now able to fight at full strength.

 

Oh my...

 

Can't wait!

 

 

Lancer two fight scenes in UBW were stellar. I just love the choreography the Lancer class "invites" with Ufotable at the helm.

[Hellion Rex]

Oh just wait till their rematch. Remember, Lancer was fighting at 50% of his strength(thanks to his masters command seal) in season 2 Lancer is now able to fight at full strength.

[Zeroth Angel]

As a side note, I have finally bought the Fate Zero Blu Rays (both S1 and S2) after having a nightmare where I only managed to buy S1 but not S2.

[Chewin]

As a side note, I have finally bought the Fate Zero Blu Rays (both S1 and S2) after having a nightmare where I only managed to buy S1 but not S2.

 

Another owner of the Zero Blu Ray collection!

 

*high five*

[Mr.House]

 

You dare raise your hand? You!? You who rushed to the feast and gorged everything before the event even began!? 

 

Despicable!

 

You don't even have the privilege of looking at me.

 

Pleib!

 

 

 

Well if one really wants to argue about that point--it is. 

 

The narrative of F/SN is kinda intangible in its approach; meaning the story utilizes avenues that gets introduced right then and there, seemingly out of nowhere which often leads to moments where the story tries to desperately  "one-up" itself with each consecutive event (especially with major revelations). Shirou getting the projection magic right then and there is one particular moment.

 

Of course, I'd argue that while such a statement is true, it is quite a disservice to F/SN's narrative, since it does quite a capable job in introducing elements subtlely enough for it not to fall into "plot convenience". Shirou did state that he could use projection magic, had been practicing it (although with poor success rates) and managed to get it right during that particular incident (be it due to willpower, adrenaline, or any other reason). I did enjoy that it had consequences that he was able to project it though. Gave the moment a stronger impact, and made it more believable.

This is a Ufotable mistake as projection magic is mentioned very very very early in the vN, it is the first magic he succeed at . It never came out of nowhere in the VN and it's even further detailed on why Trace On is extremely powerful and why he even has it in the first place. If you want to know hwy since I doubt UBW will explain it. In the VN you know Shirous projection was not normal so when he uses it fort he first time to create an extremely powerful weapon in the Fate route, you go HOLY SHIIIIIT! It was heavily forshadowed that projection is something that would become Shirous main offensive and Udftoble did a poor job forshadowing it.

 

Spoiler

When Kiri put Avalon inside of him his origin and elemental mastery was changed to sword, this also gave birth to his reality marble which gave him two by product magic(projection and reinforcement)