Don't forget how everyone turns into OJ.
Anime and manga discussion thread
Débuté par
eroeru
, janv. 21 2012 04:01
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#7878
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 04:37
eroeru
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Well, can't a masterpiece have a gruesome ending? I for one can think of some great ones, Oedipus is one that obviously and immediately comes to mind.
As to EVA, it's certainly even more epic and mythic in scale of ideas.
[spoilers]
Shinji, as I say once again can be a reference to a Christian faith and an existentialist or phenomenological position in a framework of a Christian (cultural) mythos (the simplest reason for this - his name *does* mean faith in Japanese*). His plight is one of "completing" or "taking-to-end" of a bizarre** yet really fleshed out logical construction of a Christianity where the original sin seems to be one that takes humanity towards a god-like status, for which the divine (Angels) are adversaries. Both his position towards his mother (Rei) *and* Asuka explore many classic themes such as in Oedipus or Freud, or Jung. But in the end it seems Rei was "taking-to-end" a(n almost) Buddhist "ascending", which reminds of Herman Hesse or many other interpretations of the godlike (in philosophy and in literature), though it's in stark contrast with the christian thing Shinji's got going for him, with him getting to a blood-soaked proto-garden-of-eden as an Adam of sorts. His by-the-end significant other, Asuka trying to strangle him is as simplest a testimony of an angst between the sexes, but delivered also as a phenomenological perspective of the Other who at the same fulfils, makes into reality one's existence and makes it unbearable. The thing that keeps you alive and gives existence a teleological meaning is what kills fiercely. A beginning to (all) life, thru death... Beautiful stuff.
As to "it's rated horribly"... Only on the BSN and other anime-scarce communities. In MAL, for example, it's 8.35.
/pretentious ****** out
*other maybe less obvious resons to link Shinji to Christianity-inspired existentialism (see Unamuno and maybe Kierkegaard) include existentialist tenets or questions, for example the notion of existential angst portrayed perfectly in the the first episode even, with him not being able to "take the first step" into responsibility of piloting and "saving the world". The notion of existential angst is built upon an understanding of a "veil of perception" + "free will", and its - as-Sartre-calls-them "logical" - outcomes, where you know you can possibly or theoretically do everything and "save the world" so to say, but you also know you'll always produce results that're bad even, in contrast, and thus are at fault for the ills - as you cannot project responsibility upon anything else but self, as defined by the veil of perception. Shinji went through it explicitly. with almost the exact same rhetoric, in the aforementioned scene in ep one. These themes and hints don't end with only this tho. But I'd rather hold back in writing an essay in BSN's anime thread.
All in all 'tis powerful stuff to be animated into an interesting form with some new and bold ideas and connecting old ones in an original and interesting way!
** read: "not boring"
As to EVA, it's certainly even more epic and mythic in scale of ideas.
[spoilers]
Shinji, as I say once again can be a reference to a Christian faith and an existentialist or phenomenological position in a framework of a Christian (cultural) mythos (the simplest reason for this - his name *does* mean faith in Japanese*). His plight is one of "completing" or "taking-to-end" of a bizarre** yet really fleshed out logical construction of a Christianity where the original sin seems to be one that takes humanity towards a god-like status, for which the divine (Angels) are adversaries. Both his position towards his mother (Rei) *and* Asuka explore many classic themes such as in Oedipus or Freud, or Jung. But in the end it seems Rei was "taking-to-end" a(n almost) Buddhist "ascending", which reminds of Herman Hesse or many other interpretations of the godlike (in philosophy and in literature), though it's in stark contrast with the christian thing Shinji's got going for him, with him getting to a blood-soaked proto-garden-of-eden as an Adam of sorts. His by-the-end significant other, Asuka trying to strangle him is as simplest a testimony of an angst between the sexes, but delivered also as a phenomenological perspective of the Other who at the same fulfils, makes into reality one's existence and makes it unbearable. The thing that keeps you alive and gives existence a teleological meaning is what kills fiercely. A beginning to (all) life, thru death... Beautiful stuff.
As to "it's rated horribly"... Only on the BSN and other anime-scarce communities. In MAL, for example, it's 8.35.
/pretentious ****** out
*other maybe less obvious resons to link Shinji to Christianity-inspired existentialism (see Unamuno and maybe Kierkegaard) include existentialist tenets or questions, for example the notion of existential angst portrayed perfectly in the the first episode even, with him not being able to "take the first step" into responsibility of piloting and "saving the world". The notion of existential angst is built upon an understanding of a "veil of perception" + "free will", and its - as-Sartre-calls-them "logical" - outcomes, where you know you can possibly or theoretically do everything and "save the world" so to say, but you also know you'll always produce results that're bad even, in contrast, and thus are at fault for the ills - as you cannot project responsibility upon anything else but self, as defined by the veil of perception. Shinji went through it explicitly. with almost the exact same rhetoric, in the aforementioned scene in ep one. These themes and hints don't end with only this tho. But I'd rather hold back in writing an essay in BSN's anime thread.
All in all 'tis powerful stuff to be animated into an interesting form with some new and bold ideas and connecting old ones in an original and interesting way!
** read: "not boring"
Modifié par eroeru, 13 septembre 2013 - 06:37 .
#7879
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 05:04
The Hierophant
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
#7880
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 05:07
Kaiser Arian XVII
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eroeru wrote...
It's masterpiece-status honestly.
It's probably masturbate-states!
Dathighschoolanime#Notme#loljk#YODO
#7881
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 05:16
eroeru
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Yes, intellectual masturbation that is.
#7882
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 06:39
Blooddrunk1004
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I consider The end of EVA a masterpiece because of these reasons:
1. It delivers a message about how our world is cruel, sad, dark and scary place. You will never be able to make our world perfect and good no matter how hard you try. You will just have to deal with it and teach your children about this subject as well. This is what Shinji wanted to do but he didn't realize the whole meaning behind his decision and entire Earth got dissolved and screwed. When Shinji learns this hard lesson he regrets it and wants to revert the process but he can't.
2. It's one of the few endings where deus ex machina was handled properly, it fits well with the theme and it makes sense. It was done well it's also a reason why people are still discussing Evangelion nowadays.
It's funny how so many people are making fun or dislike Shinji because of that "one" scene in the hospital when he is standing over a comatose Asuka, yet he even himself says how ****ed up he is over what he just did.
1. It delivers a message about how our world is cruel, sad, dark and scary place. You will never be able to make our world perfect and good no matter how hard you try. You will just have to deal with it and teach your children about this subject as well. This is what Shinji wanted to do but he didn't realize the whole meaning behind his decision and entire Earth got dissolved and screwed. When Shinji learns this hard lesson he regrets it and wants to revert the process but he can't.
2. It's one of the few endings where deus ex machina was handled properly, it fits well with the theme and it makes sense. It was done well it's also a reason why people are still discussing Evangelion nowadays.
It's funny how so many people are making fun or dislike Shinji because of that "one" scene in the hospital when he is standing over a comatose Asuka, yet he even himself says how ****ed up he is over what he just did.
#7883
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 06:45
Lotion Soronarr
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Well, you certanly seem to masturbate all over it eroru.
A pity that most people don't share your high oppinion of EVA.
A pity that most people don't share your high oppinion of EVA.
#7885
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 07:36
bmwcrazy
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Blooddrunk1004 wrote...
It's funny how so many people are making fun or dislike Shinji because of that "one" scene in the hospital when he is standing over a comatose Asuka, yet he even himself says how ****ed up he is over what he just did.
They hate because they would do the same.
#7886
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 08:28
Guest_Puddi III_*
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Not sure why him feeling bad about it is supposed to make me more sympathetic of him masturbating over a coma patient. Or uh, strangling her at the end, because **** everything, right, Shinji has to choke a ****. I don't think these are supposed to be likeable moments.Blooddrunk1004 wrote...
It's funny how so many people are making fun or dislike Shinji because of that "one" scene in the hospital when he is standing over a comatose Asuka, yet he even himself says how ****ed up he is over what he just did.
But I liked the ova anyway, and the anime generally, for what my deranged ninth grade mind could understand watching such a mindscrew of a show. Masterpiece seems like a bit much, but w/e.
#7887
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 08:32
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NEW CHAPTER!? OMGOMGOMG! It's been weeks! Oh how I missed you!The Hierophant wrote...
Modifié par J. Reezy, 13 septembre 2013 - 08:32 .
#7888
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 09:20
eroeru
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Yeah, when I say "a masterpiece in anime" it isn't saying *that* much really.
And sorry for the horrible wall of blabber, tho I wanted to explain some of my thoughts, doing so at 6 in the morn with a horrible runny nose didn't produce the best of texts.
By the way, I just watched episode 95 of the Hunter X Hunter remake. And tho I've disliked v. 2011 throughout the parts that were done oh so very much better in the 1999 version, I found ep 95 to be really good! The music, for one thing, seems to have gotten somewhat better.
So, here's a question. From what episode onwards does the 2011 version show stuff that wasn't shown in the original anime? I bet it's the Greed Island part? So what ep is that?
edit: oh, and was it that Shinji [spoilers!] strangled Asuka? Was remembring it wrong... Doesn't invalidate my thoughts tho.
And sorry for the horrible wall of blabber, tho I wanted to explain some of my thoughts, doing so at 6 in the morn with a horrible runny nose didn't produce the best of texts.
By the way, I just watched episode 95 of the Hunter X Hunter remake. And tho I've disliked v. 2011 throughout the parts that were done oh so very much better in the 1999 version, I found ep 95 to be really good! The music, for one thing, seems to have gotten somewhat better.
So, here's a question. From what episode onwards does the 2011 version show stuff that wasn't shown in the original anime? I bet it's the Greed Island part? So what ep is that?
edit: oh, and was it that Shinji [spoilers!] strangled Asuka? Was remembring it wrong... Doesn't invalidate my thoughts tho.
Modifié par eroeru, 13 septembre 2013 - 09:26 .
#7889
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 09:27
Clover Rider
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Watch the whole thing, it is way better than the 1999 version!
And episode 57 for Greed Island.
And episode 57 for Greed Island.
Modifié par Some Geth, 13 septembre 2013 - 09:27 .
#7892
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 09:34
Clover Rider
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HxH's North Korea is still hilarious.
#7893
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 09:42
eroeru
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Yeah!
Started watching from episode one again. My memories of the 1999 version aren't as vivid now, so maybe I'll enjoy the 2011 a bit more this time round. Also, didn't see all episodes when I *did* try to watch it.
I remember seeing something about a movie. Between what episodes does it take place?
Modifié par eroeru, 13 septembre 2013 - 09:52 .
#7894
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 09:45
Clover Rider
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Yay!
And the movie is pretty meh.
I believe the story was Togashi's original idea for the York Shin arc, but it is in no way as good as that arc.
And the movie is pretty meh.
I believe the story was Togashi's original idea for the York Shin arc, but it is in no way as good as that arc.
Modifié par Some Geth, 13 septembre 2013 - 09:46 .
#7895
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 09:46
eroeru
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Ok, I'll skip that OVA. Cause I do remember starting it once yet quitting shortly after.
Modifié par eroeru, 13 septembre 2013 - 09:48 .
#7896
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 09:50
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You mean the Greed Island OVA episodes?
I was talking about the new movie that just came out.
I was talking about the new movie that just came out.
#7897
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 09:51
eroeru
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I was talking about that too.
Movie, original vid animation, I can't very well tell the difference.
Movie, original vid animation, I can't very well tell the difference.
#7898
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 09:53
Clover Rider
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#7900
Posté 13 septembre 2013 - 10:26
Lotion Soronarr
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bmwcrazy wrote...
Blooddrunk1004 wrote...
It's funny how so many people are making fun or dislike Shinji because of that "one" scene in the hospital when he is standing over a comatose Asuka, yet he even himself says how ****ed up he is over what he just did.
They hate because they would do the same.
That scene doesn't bother me...if anything, it just shows he uttelry human and frakked up he is.
Eva bothers me as a whole. And dat bloody ending.
