88264 réponses à ce sujet

[Isichar]

Alright! Coffee is now working on it's job of making me a bit less of a mental zombie so now it's crack the knuckles time and continue this wonderful conversation. I'll likewise chime in that getting to have these lengthy conversations with you about the series make my day as well. :3 And don't you worry, gushing about both Homura and Sayaka is something I do far too much for me to ever consider it a bad thing.

On a quick not spoily note, I have some good news! The original group that was working on translating the Madoka Portable game quit sometime last year if I remember correctly *but* another group picked it up and it looks like we might have a demo come this month!  That squealing sound you hear? Probably me.


Now, time to get back to the fun part.

Spoiler

Firstly, please don't ever feel you have to apologize when we ramble at each other. I know, it sounds silly considering I do the very same thing but I really do enjoy it and it's so nice to be able to have these lengthy conversations on a topic dear to our hearts. This might be all over the place cause well, feelings and getting to discuss them with you makes my brain roll around in happy places.

I do want to say that I'm thankful for you explaining the scene near the end where Homura acts like the embodiment of despair for each of the girls. My headache at the time was getting incredibly bad by that point so I initially had trouble wrapping my head around the wonderful little intricacy of the scene. I mean I registered the notion of at least Sayaka seeing and being forced to interact Kyosuke and Hitomi together but I hadn't yet pondered the idea that it was Homura pulling a bit of a power play to do the little things that would make each of the girls squirm. I love it, cause now it makes the slightly later scene where she breaks with Madoka that much better.

Back when I watched the series, I went on a few five million word speeches on my Tumblr regarding it and the main point I'll bring back up from those is despair. I mostly guided that topic in relation to Sayaka and how I felt that Gen absolutely nailed a wonderful representation of how it can truly wrap its way around one's heart and the decline that comes with it. I personally watched Unlimited Translation Works' version of the subs and I have to say that from a personal standpoint, I prefer their wording from what I've seen of the original series. See, when I watched it, I was hopping steadily along, getting little points here and there that came close to my personal viewpoints but it wasn't until I got to episode 7 that the mentions of the series being soul crushing hit me properly. The Elsa Maria fight is another I love because not only is it visual appealing but it's almost terrifying in that it shows the true beginning of Sayaka's own despair. Their wording for the end of the episode is what got me though: It's true! If I just detach myself... It doesn't hurt at all!

 

I'll incredibly vaguely note that there most definitely have been times in my life where I've been hurt to the point where I wonder if just detaching myself would save me from ever feeling that again. Episode 8 from their translation had the title of 'I Really Was an Idiot' which once again, hit that same point in my brain because those words have popped in multiple times when I found myself wrapped up in despair. Because of their word choice, Sayaka became one of the most important characters to me because I knew how she felt. If that made things weird, I apologize. It's a series that greatly affects me because of the ways I can relate to the girls. Another little nod to Sayaka and Kyouko that I forgot to mention last night was that during the rescue, at one point Oktavia is using Kyouko's spear and that just made me smile. :3 Overall I'm just very happy with what Rebellion did with Sayaka's character because she was one of the ones I connected with the strongest, and her original send off just didn't feel quite as good as it could have been. Whether or not her and Kyouko are actually something is of course up in the air, but it's clear at the very least that they've had a positive effect on each other. I do take a lot of amusement in that Kyouko initially was what my brain said 'Oh well, here's the spit fire for the group. Hrm.' That's not to say I don't enjoy those characters as Asuka is very dear to me from NGE but true to form, once her self centered outlook was explained, she wormed her way into my heart. That's exactly why first impressions should never be the be all, end all when it comes to people. We all have our own stories and reasonings behind things, even if the character flaws can take work to get around.

 

That's some misc rambling out of the way. Let's face it, the meat of our conversations tend to boil right down to Homura and I love that because she truly is one of the greatest characters I've ever witnessed.

 

Spoiler

I'd say run away now but it's probably safe to say we both can't. X3 Judging by some of the ramblings I've seen on Tumblr since finishing the series, a lot of folks wanted her to have some sort of quintessential typical fantasy ending. Whether or not it's getting the girl, who knows but I suppose they're upset because her shift turned dark. I'm not going to lie, that's another thing that continued the connection I feel with her character. When left in one's own thoughts long enough, especially when held down by the more negative outlooks and attempting to shoulder all of your burdens alone, it only feels natural that eventually one's mind could slip towards the darker outlooks. I'm wondering if I can find the image that originally spoiled Homucifer for me... It's really quite amusing. Okay, I did a quick search and it appears I can't but it was a mockup of the End of Evangelion cover with the characters swapped out and the text was pretty much 'Holy ****. Did she just become the devil?' I laughed for some time even after grumbling about that one.

 

Her shift to the darker mode of thinking just made sense to me. See, a friend and myself have had some extensive talks about the nature of love for quite some time. It can be truly one of the most chaotic and uncontrollable emotions possible. The points we mainly brought up were the fact that there are quiet loves, the sort that feel right, are calming and don't necessarily need to be shouted from the rooftops in order to acknowledge them. Likewise there are the 'insane' loves, the kind that feel all consuming. Now the latter is not necessarily a bad thing but they are the kind that lead to devastation if separation happens. Single-mindedness go hand in hand with the latter as well. If we ponder that this 'insane' love is the sort that Homura feels for Madoka, keeping it quiet for so long and as you've mentioned before, only finally getting the words out at a time when Madoka can't do anything about it because she's transcended those sorts of emotions, Homura's despair just makes sense. In that single-minded outlook, even the pain derived from her time with Madoka is something she cherishes because it counts as a reminder of her in a place where she'll be forever out of Homura's reach. The folks that get bothered by these things, I must admit that it makes me wonder if they've loved someone with a certain intensity and then had things go bad. The mind can lose all sense of being rational in these instances. Love more often than not doesn't make sense to anyone outside of the relationship and that's exactly why I'll copy the quote you used because it was just perfect: It's only natural that you don't understand. Yes... No one in the world could possibly understand. This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone.

 

The fire that burns inside Homura is for Madoka. No one needs to understand it because this is hers. There are times where the head and heart are at war with each other. One part rational, the other part illogical and ruled by desire. Actually, amusingly enough. After I found out about the Homucifer spoiler, I was doing my typical rewatch episodes 9, 10 and 11 and it got me thinking about how the lyrics to Magia very well could be a post series conversation between Madoka and Homura. Again this is with UTW's translation. The funny part comes when I think about the fact that Rebellion didn't change this idea one bit. I'll leave a little lettered note on who my brain interprets the lines to:

 

(M) One day the light of love burning in your eyes will transcend time,

and destroy one of this world's dreams

as it spirals towards apocalypse

What is it that you seek,

now that you're done hesitating?

Is there a glimpse of hope for tomorrow,

beyond this greedy admiration?

 

(H) I want to be armed with the power,

to shatter even the darkness in my hand,

just like the ancient magic in my childhood dreams,

the next time I see your innocent smile.

In my trembling hands I hold the courage of a plucked flower

My feelings are all I can rely on;

The prayer that awakens the light.

 

Of course the theme can also be taken to be about the end of the series and Madoka becoming a god but the glorious caught you scene makes the last two lines of it just feel right from Homura's perspective. The scene you brought up in episode 10 where Madoka saves Homura's life by using Sayaka's grief seed was one that hurt my heart in so many ways. Homura had completely given herself over to the idea of being a witch (another point people should remember about TRS's story ) as long as she could lay destruction with Madoka by her side. The other half lies to let Homura get her emotions out and into a more calmed outlook and then out comes the grief seed and again Madoka is sacrificing herself.

 

Duality is a point that makes me incredibly happy in basically all forms of media. It's why I love grey characters to death because you can look at their thoughts and emotions and question them on more than just the black and white scale. We're left wondering if Homura did the right thing by rebooting the world again. Yes it was for her own selfish gain but at the same time, she also threw off the next of the Incubator's' plans in the same way Madoka did at the end of the tv series. It's not at all crazy to me to ponder the idea of Homura's personal hell also being her perfect world. As I rambled before, love is a very complicated emotion and very often borders on the side of completely illogical. But when someone leaves an impact on your life, you can't help but love them even if you know you shouldn't. I've had dreams myself that get right down to this sort of thing and that's why so many of the points in the movie continued the fact that the series knows how to push my brain's buttons in a matter to which I relate.

 

I definitely didn't take the final scene to be suicide though. Most definitely not. I mean, there's really no reason for it to happen. Homura has her rebuilt world right now. This is only the beginning and we have yet to see what cards she's going to play later. I likened it to the chair scene since her manner of tilting off the cliff was the same as the way Madoka did off the chair. Sure, the field scene did end up a bit of unfortunate splatting but this is the girl that in the last episode of the series, leapt off of a building and landed just fine. Like you mentioned, it very well could be a symbolic nod that she's going off the deep-end so to speak.

 

I need to give my brain a little break to recharge cause so many words, but I look forward to continuing this and very well might add on to it if anything else pops back into my head while it's in its vaguely resting state. Thank you so much for this! :3

 

ETA: Sneaking back hours later to mention a point I keep forgetting to throw in.

Spoiler

Firstly, lol at a chunk of Tumblr's reaction to the movie. It's not that I can't handle people not sharing my outlook, it's just that their reasoning usually makes me just blink a lot. I got lucky in that Isi and I seem to see things the same way, but so many posts about Homura being OOC just makes me want to forward them our books and how wrong they really are. Now on to the rest of it.

 

On the topic of more duality with Homura, I kept meaning to bring up this scene but still my brain is jumping all over the place. I found it fascinating that when she finds out the fact that she's part of the Incubators' plan, she doesn't lose her cool until the idea of them attempting to control Madoka comes up. Now this could be viewed as amusing considering she splits Godoka later in the movie but still. There's the same mindset from the series that she doesn't care what happens to her, as long as Madoka is alright and around. Madoka is still both her trigger and her own breaking point. I really just can't wrap my head around how people can see the shift as OOC. Is it extreme? It might be, but sometimes people do extreme things when they feel they have no other option.

 

Sorry, it took me longer to respond then I would have liked, but trust me when I say I've had Madoka Magica on my mind all day >< You would think that typing up a response like the one the other day would get it out of my system, though it seems to have actually had the opposite effect heh. I can tell that you love and appreciate the series as much as I do, which makes me more then a little happy tbh.

 

Spoiler

 

Sayaka added a lot to the story, and the way her character is executed does a wonderful job of giving us an idea of how easily girls fell into QB's trap and just how little that bastard gave a **** about those girls. It really puts the nail in the feelings to see how easily the system discarded Sayaka's life. I agree her original sendoff was a little lackluster, and I'm also happy about how she was handled in Rebellion. Tbh its not until TRS that you really get to see how Sayaka grows as a person. I especially like how much she comes to be able to sympathize with Homura despite their initial friction in the TV series. It makes sense since Homura is the grey character, and much of Sayaka's arc follows her realizing that the world in not black and white. I kind of wish she had a few more scenes in TRS, but I absolutely loved what was there.

 

I could gush on a bit about Sayaka's character design. She had my favorite theme, favorite magical girl outfit, favorite witch, and one of my favorite labyrinths (there's 3 I really liked... probably not very tough to guess what the other 2 are  ). Everything about her character from her outfit, to her brash personality, to her OST (Hers and Octavia's) and finally to how her story progresses just all sort of fit together rather nicely, in particular alongside Kyoko's, to make her a fun and yet equally serious character. Sayaka also has a ton of interesting symbolic imagery (The Elsa Maria fight was amazing in that sense) throughout the series that does well to emphasize on her many individual characteristics (most the magic girls did... I just liked hers the most). Shes also probably the easiest character to relate to (for me at least). I understand why she was important character to you, I would say I felt the same.

 

One thing I don't really get is the hatred some of the Sayaka fans show Hitomi. I sort of get that she acted as the catalyst to the events that pushed Sayaka over the edge, but its not like she had any way of knowing the situation.

 

I also found that the different translations effected how I viewed the scenes. Scenes like when Sayaka transforms into a witch I've found certain versions just seem to fit a flow better.

 

Thats really cool about Octavia using Kyokos spear btw, I totally missed that 0_o

 

 

Spoiler

 

I like your points on love. As you stated love is not exactly a simple emotion and is not something that can be understood in the typical sense, which is why a creature like QB who is unable to be anything but rationale cannot comprehend it. I can't help but wonder how Homura's feeling for Madoka would have developed had there being no magical girl system since her suffering becomes such an important aspect of her feelings for Madoka. It also ties in rather nicely with the theme of duality since it is able to reflect the best and worse of Homura, to the point that it basically ends up defining her entire existence.

 

More to the point on duality what I like is that the series and movie manages to keep escalating (or descending depending on how you want to view it) both the hope and despair without ever having one completely triumph over the other, which is largely shown through Homura and Madoka trying to protect each other. I like how when you see Madoka protecting Homura in the original timeline we get to see Madoka grow up and show courage in the face of despair in order to protect Homura, who in turn seeks to become stronger and in a sense wishes to prevent Madoka from ever growing up to make the self sacrificing decision that she does. In a weird twisted way shes not necessarily wrong for doing so, because I do believe the price Madoka payed was completely unfair, although it certainly does largely ignore Madoka's wishes to trap her the way she does. It makes me a little sad to think of how far away Homura's feelings end up from Madoka's as a result, but as you mentioned they manage to show little cracks in both Homura (the cracks Madoka was able to bring out in Homura which were always some of Her most defining moments) and Madoka before the end of the movie. even after Homura becomes the "devil", which makes sense since Homura is not evil per se. I see her final transformation as just a representation of how she views herself.

 

I don't see what Homura does as being extreme or out of character from her PoV, from a typical normal persons PoV? sure, but not Homura's. Its like you said, just natural progression (just on a more epic scale)

 

You never really get a sense that things are ever truly over in the series as a result of how duality is handled, which personally I'm fine with. If the series is to continue from this point on I have no idea how they would be able to top what its built up to, but I imagine that like this last movie any sequel would just continue to screw with our expectations of how the story should progress. I wonder if it would be possible for Madoka to save Homura even if she did break free from her prison? since Homura is not strictly a witch anymore and Madoka really only has the ability to save witches (I think?).

 

(Its refreshing to talking to someone who has similar views on Homura, I spend a lot of time on other internet outlets arguing with people on how the third movie handled her)

 

 

Anyway's going to take a break from typing for now to recharge. There's so much discussion that can be had with this series its great and a little overwhelming as well. I like being able to delve into the philosophy and themes behind a well done series, and to me this series is a damned masterpiece like that. I will say this, if they do decide to continue on (and honestly, I hope they do) they better not screw it up, because so far its been perfect. I'm still planning on rewatching the trilogy at a friends house really soon, and I suspect I will have quite a few thoughts in my head after a fresh viewing of the entire series, so expect more gushing on the series from me in the very near future

 

Random question for you. What are your favorite visual moments in the series? There was a ton of symbolic imagery, which stood out and spoke the most to you?

 

P.S. Ugh now I want a PSP =/

[Isichar]

I watched the first episode of Akuma No Riddle, promising start. The plot is a bit strange, but mostly in a good way I think. So far I like the animation and OST too.

 

@Sim

 

I'm going to a convention in May. Its a bit bigger but nothing to major, usually has 4-5 thousand people showing up. Won't be surprised if I drop a few hundred on Merchandise and such myself. I'm really looking forward to it.

 

Glad you enjoyed the one you went to. (you should post the photos if possible)

[mhmbaSR1]

OMFG, NO!!!!

 

you guys knew my favorite person in pmmm was homura and you made me watch that?!?!? I mean I loved it, it was terrific/unbelievable/awesome, but aghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! my reactions to the movie, in order:      

 

I am going for a walk to clear my head, and then I will be back to write a book. excuse me while I go bust my eardrums trying to forget the last 2 hours of my life...

[Isichar]

OMFG, NO!!!!

 

you guys knew my favorite person in pmmm was homura and you made me watch that?!?!? I mean I loved it, it was terrific/unbelievable/awesome, but aghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! my reactions to the movie, in order:      

 

I am going for a walk to clear my head, and then I will be back to write a book. excuse me while I go bust my eardrums trying to forget the last 2 hours of my life...

 

Spoiler

Homura's hell is also her heaven, as someone who likes Homura you should like it since she gets exactly what she wanted haha

 

Kyubey finally gets what it deserves, all the girls are alive and we get to see them all happy, and plus Homura protects Modaka the way she's been working for the entire series. She rejects the typical happy ending in which she is saved because that was not what she was working towards (I loved it )

 

I was devastated after watching it. It's the kind of movie that leaves you a little shell shocked for a while afterwords. Its something that you need to take a little time to think about. After rewatching the series again, I think it was perfect.

 

Me and Animusandanima have been discussing Homura quite a bit, you should check that out!

[Puzzlewell]

Isi: Don't you worry. After we finished our initial back and forth yesterday, I kept my brain mostly in low mode for the rest of the day cause PMMM took it all out of me! I've been finally poking around the TVTropes page for Rebellion today as well since there's no longer spoilers to watch out for and they bring up a lot of fascinating points I hadn't yet thought of or looked into. I'll bring some of them up at some point in all this:

 

Spoiler

I really loved the character growth for Sayaka that we get in TRS. For all that despair, she still grew massively as a person and came out of it with one of the more important roles in guarding Madoka's memories til the time was right. She's no longer the vaguely clumsy girl we saw up until the beginning of her breakdown. Her battle skills, confidence and clearly self worth grew exponentially from when we last saw her. For a girl that was guilty of basing her own self worth off what other people thought of her in the series, she clearly grew to base it on her *own* opinions of herself and that can be an incredibly difficult thing to do (speaking from experience there since I used to and occasionally do struggle with that sort of thing)! Reading her witch card on the wiki also fascinated me because you said before, it clearly ties right back into the original fable of the Little Mermaid. I pretty much love all the witch cards though...

 

In mentioning TVTropes as well, they explained where the nuzzling gif that I kept seeing came from and why it didn't compute with what I've seen! I guess in the first two movies, there are fluffier versions of the field and chairs scene. Then Rebellion comes around and oops, shift to dark. So fitting and now I'm definitely going to look into the first two movies. I was planning on rewatching the series so that I'd have more to relate back to as our conversations go there but instead I might just watch all three movies. :3

 

I couldn't quite tell what the Clara dolls in Horuma's labyrinth were saying whenever they spoke but according to the site, they at one point say 'Gott ist tot' (god is dead). Well. They aren't exactly wrong with how the movie goes... I haven't sat down and really looked into the runes in the movie yet (using the wiki to translate) but apparently with even the first nightmare, the runes end up saying that Homulilly is its creator. I simply adore all the little details that go into this series. >_< It's seriously enough to keep me stupidly thralled for ridiculous amounts of time.  They also brought up an amazing detail I didn't notice and it made me grin once I double checked it. A little ways into the scene where Homura is questioning Bebe. While they're still in Mami's apartment, if you listen to what Bebe is saying instead of reading the subtitles at the point where Homura first drops her and then grabs her throat  and starts questioning a bit more firmly, Bebe's repeated response is 'Kyubey!' Really there's a *ton* of little details on the page and I must admit that I'm pleased to see that you and I have hit on so many of them in the course of this conversation. http://tvtropes.org/...eMovieRebellion If you want to come to the dark side with me and make more stupid squealy noises.

 

As far as the series visuals are concerned, the previously mentioned bits with Elsa Maria and Oktavia are personal favorite for sure but one of my absolute favorite images of the show doesn't immediately involve the witches per se, just an aftermath,

 

Spoiler

Most specifically it's the closeup shot of Homura in episode 10 as her and Kyubey are sitting in the wasteland left by Kriemhild Gretchen. It's kind of hard to explain why I love it so much but the desolated area mixed with her color scheme and the absolute look of almost cool apathy (for that timeline) on her face for reaching yet another failed state just really stuck with me.

 

I'm dying to see how they're going to follow this up. Gen knows how to write things into a direction that appeals to all different parts of my brain, so I trust that whatever comes next will follow in those footsteps. I mean, I was worried in the months waiting for TRS cause I had no idea how they could follow up something so amazing and yet they did, and it was perfect. *_* Sorry if this was a little jumpy and quick. I'll try and touch bases again in a moment but I wanted to reply to you before the linked page made my head buzz even more. X3

 

I do hope you enjoy the con when you go and glad to hear you had a good time at yours, Sim! Back when I lived up north I was on a few occasions supposed to attend Anime Boston but something usually always got in the way.

[Isichar]

Oh boy, I completely forgot about the "god is dead" thing. Yeah, thats incredibly creepy and awesome at the same time.

 

I did notice Bebe saying QB's name quite a bit even though it didn't show up in dialogue.

 

Spoiler

I'm actually a little surprised Homura didn't suspect that bastard sooner.

[Puzzlewell]

Spoiler

Same here! I mean it kept almost weirding me out that he was so quiet, all things considered. Of course it didn't help that they kept panning the camera over to rest on his eyes like they did in the series so it started to just become a matter of time til he made a move. Considering how that move worked out for him, I'm sure he's regretting it now.

 

This is why I have to properly rewatch the movie now that I don't have the headache dulling my senses. So many little things I'm looking forward to picking up on now that I already know the story and can pay more attention to background events and such.

[TheClonesLegacy]

*Snip*

Cons are really fun.

 

Also are we discussing Rebellion?

Because then I post things.

Spoiler

And proof as to why Mami-san is best girl... (Actual spoilers in this clip tho)

Spoiler

 

As far as the end goes, it didn't really bother me I felt it was pretty natural progression for

Spoiler

Homura

given all she's been through. You just snap sometimes; and hey, at least we can get another season

[mhmbaSR1]

@Isichar i obviously finished strawberry panic, it was good, and both of the couples that you mentioned were ones that i shipped, but they never ended up together. keep me updated on akuma no riddle too! i probably won't have time to watch it as it comes out, so any tidbits you can throw my way would be awesome!

and i love character driven story, so chihayafuru is definitely on my watch list for when i get done rewatching PMMM: TRS

 

on a side note, i finally watched garden or words too. not as good as 5 cm per second, but still nice.

Spoiler

i liked the relationship they had, but didn't like how it devolved into venting and sobbing at the end, as i feel this one was going for more of a happy ending, and less of an empty ending (like 5 cm/s) but just fell somewhere in between, and not really in a good way.

 still really enjoyed it though

 

@Isichar @AnimusandAnima

thanks so much for typing up all that stuff you guys have over the last couple pages, it took a while to read ( ) but was totally worth it. there was a lot in there so I am not going to quote them, but I tried to like as many as I could

 

the following are my abridged random thoughts. I will try to reread all of your posts so I can reply to the majority of what you said instead of just having this really short response that is below.

 

and i just wanted to get this out of the way, since i think you guys pretty much agree... there is no way pmmm isn't a shoujo ai!

 

Puella Magi Madoka Magica and The Rebellion Story

Spoiler

1. the movie (for me) was so much better than the series. I really considered the series predictable and a little cliché (still really liked it though), but the movie threw me for a loop several times, was incredibly engrossing, and was so much more in the way of story telling. pretty much because it examines all the gray areas, not just of morality, but of love. and this is huge, something i think everyone can relate to. I really loved this movie, definitely in my top ten.

 

2. I really would like to say that homura's character evolution was unbelievable and incongruous, but you guys brought up so many good points in the last couple of pages that I can't really argue with you. you actually ended up bringing me around, and hey, i was a little emotional after first watching TRS  i have fallen in love with homura so much more after watching that. i just... seriously, i wish i could be as coherent and eloquent as you guys, but i think i would just make a fool out of myself lol suffice it to say, i love her character dynamic, her love, her despair, trials, tribulations, etc. i think she really makes pmmm in more than one way. so much love for her character

 

that being said, if i were to argue your POVs it would be with this...

 

3. i really am wondering about the ending, just in general. the half moon, half world, no madoka scene at the end, implying that homura's world was now only half a world. it really made me think that homura had given up hope, that she had gone off the deep end, but had done so much more than that. through her actions she had alienated madoka, so much so to the point that during the ending homura was pretty much restraining/restricting madoka's personality for her own selfish gains. this 'devil' that she had become was really a manifestation of her pain and not her love for madoka. they weren't together, she wasn't happy, she had abandoned the person she loved in order to maintain her despair. i mean she admits that her pain is now integral to her love because she can no longer remember what pure love is like! not only has her love been corrupted, but she has also corrupted madoka, and it just seems out of place with the homura that was dedicated to madoka in the series (dedicated to madoka, not her love for madoka, this shown through her willingness to let madoka make her own decisions at the end, and then she regresses and tries to control madoka again in TRS) the gist here is that she may not have been committing suicide (i don't think she was) but she was already dead on the inside...

 

4. i absolutely loved kyouko-sayaka! shipped them hard ever since that scene where kyouko is with sayaka to the very end, and when kyouko is inside sayaka's witch (both in the series). TRS was a really awesome fulfillment of this for me. there was also a lot of madoka-homura fulfillment in TRS too, but it had me going back and forth there towards the end. regardless, it was nice to see a confession of love (there was one right?)

 

5. what is the "caught you" scene? sorry, its been a long night

 

i would love to say more and rant, but it is late here, and i am tired. i am really, really wanting to rewatch TRS. i will continue to post my thoughts and responses, and hopefully have more to say when i am able to rewatch. thanks so much guys!!

[mhmbaSR1]

agh what can I say, I actually got back up from bed to do this....

 

more pmmm: trs

Spoiler

thinking about what you guys said about the duality of love, specifically how AaA said that there are two kinds of love (selfless and selfish), I really think that homura and madoka represent a dichotomy of love in that way. madoka's love (for peace, and homura) is selfless, and led to this wonderful thing where she is able to save magical girls from pain and despair, but homura has this evolution from single minded love (yes I am bringing in a third type) to selfish love. she has become the antithesis of everything that madoka stood for, and I really think this is the break down for me. in the end its not selfish vs. selfless, its love vs. despair, and homura is on the wrong side of that coin

I mean its great to see homura's cracks in her armor and everything (and her story is totally believable), but at the end of the day she betrayed madoka, she betrayed her love for madoka, and I think this is shown in the "half-world" scene at the end of the movie, and the way that homura seems listless, lost, without purpose, and in despair. she is the embodiment of how love can turn into something that it was never meant to be 

 

more thoughts on the way, now maybe I can go to sleep...

[Puzzlewell]

I'm flitting towards the side of being super sleepy myself, SR1 so I'll reply to you proper once I've gotten some shuteye but I wanted to thank you for your thoughts as well! I'll definitely be tackling the points of love a bit more regarding TRS cause the bits you mentioned were things I've been meaning to go into more but thoughts all over the place. X3

[Isichar]

I'm flitting towards the side of being super sleepy myself, SR1 so I'll reply to you proper once I've gotten some shuteye but I wanted to thank you for your thoughts as well! I'll definitely be tackling the points of love a bit more regarding TRS cause the bits you mentioned were things I've been meaning to go into more but thoughts all over the place. X3

 

Yeah, Same here. I'll write up a response after I've had a bit of sleep.

 

Just a quick note MhmbaSR1 the "caught you" scene is when

Spoiler

Homura grabs Godoka  and says "I've finally caught you" and seperates the godlike part of her from the regular Madoka.

 

I'm not sure how others refer to that scene, that's just been what I've been calling it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Aquarion *shudders*

 

Escaflowne i can take or leave but that abomination needs to be tossed into the deepest pit of Anime Hell.

 

Right next to G Gundam and The Samurai Pizza Cats.

 

Aquarion is....meh.

But Escaflowne is brilliant.

 

And I will murder anyone who sez otherwise.

[Mr.House]

I'm right now watching Kill la Kill, this city is so coocoo I love it.

[Isichar]

@mhmbaSR1

 

Most of this is just going to be focused on Homura and the third point.

 

Spoiler

I see the post credits scene as being symbolic of how far Homura's heart is from Madoka, and how she more alone then she has ever being. I would like to make a couple differentiations as well as throw in some personal views into it though. For one I don't agree that shes dead inside, just really cut off from her emotions. And to be fair, shes mostly being that way for the entirety of the series. From that start of the series she is someone who has cracked under the pressure, I would argue she's being that way since the third timeline in episode 10 when she shot Madoka before creating a new timeline. Besides flashbacks and TRS the only times you ever see the true Homura is during brief moments with Madoka when she is emotionally caught off guard. I loved how the third movie shows how far shes come from the original timeline by showing her as she was when she was innocent, and then almost immediately after having her remember what shes gone through and what shes become. It's easy to forget that change actually occurred over the course of 100+ timelines.

 

Her anguish and suffering becomes a part of her love for Madoka, and its being that way for a very long period of time, it just we don't really understand the full extent of it until that moment at the end.

 

I can't say that I agree that she 'abandons' Madoka, but I do agree that she is not happy, together with Madoka and she did ignore Madoka's feelings as well as what was for the greater good, though these are all things she openly acknowledges and states she was not working towards even before the third movie. I don't think Homura would have lasted as long as she did had she being trying to achieve those things tbh.

 

I would like to point out that much of the dark tones of the ending is a reflection of how Homura views herself rather then whether her actions were actually despicable. Her outfit, the description of herself, and the imagery all mirror how she views herself. Though I think there's more grey area then it initially seems. For one QB is no longer a problem, and from what I can understand their is still a system for dealing with the despair that remained (Homura said she would still be dealing with wraiths) without the need for any new magical girls, also the effects of previous wishes made by magic girls seems to have remained. Despite how selfish her actions are, she is the one who is taking on most of the responsibility and consequences for her actions.

 

I would be lying if I said she was completely wrong for doing so. Right and wrong in this series come down to context and tend to be very warped. If I were to ask if sacrificing 1 life was worth saving 100? The obvious logical answer would be yes (which is the answer QB would give) but we are also ruled by emotion and that question may not be as simple as it appears. The magical girl system was designed to feed on that mentality, to continually sacrifice others for the greater good, but how much was lost to maintain that in the process? If the incubators had not created the system, then society would not have being able to form the way it did, does that justify the lives lost? Madoka tells QB that even if what it did was for the greater good, its still wrong for doing so and betraying those girls (even though its never told a lie).

 

(Btw the 1 life vs 100 thing is something Gen has touched upon in other stories too, mainly Fate/Zero)

 

Its why i think duality is such a strong theme in Madoka, the story likes to screw with what you feel should happen by giving you the exact opposite and showing you how it fits. Kind of like how Witches are creatures of despair that kill others, but are also shown to be the most tragic victims.

 

Regarding KxS

 

Spoiler

There is no direct love confession, you can take the scene where they hold hands as an implication though. I agree that they make a cute couple.

[Master Warder Z]

Aquarion is....meh.

But Escaflowne is brilliant.

 

And I will murder anyone who sez otherwise.

 

It's about like Stein's Gate.

 

VERY overrated, not a bad anime, but its not really anything special either.

[Isichar]

It's about like Stein's Gate.

 

VERY overrated, not a bad anime, but its not really anything special either.

 

I honestly don't understand how Steins;gate is as well reviewed as it is either.

 

Its maybe like a 6/10

[SlottsMachine]

Still watching Psycho-Pass, I have maybe 6-7 episodes left. Really enjoying it, who doesn't love a crumbling "utopia." 

[mhmbaSR1]

response to isichar, and i would like to apologize ahead of time, since i feel like i take a somewhat more confrontational approach to this post than what i usually do 

 

pmmm: trs

Spoiler

first off i regard the final "half-world" scene as purely symbolic, with no literal interpretation whatsoever aside from kyubey starving

 

i am not saying that what homura did was despicable, evil, or unforeseen. what i was trying to get across was that her love for madoka had changed, not herself personally. i think this is clear in my posts, but maybe not, i was half asleep after all

 

and i wasn't trying to define good and evil in the context of the series either, as i agree that was a rather grey area, i was trying to outline the changes and evolution that i felt homura experienced in her love for madoka. basically the two different types of love seen in the series, and i think the series is pretty obvious about which is the true love, since i am rewatching i am seeing a lot of imprisonment symbolism with homura, and selflessness with madoka. so feel free to draw your own conclusion

 

more direct response to your post:

so i think we can agree that throughout the series homura is driven by her love for madoka, that's all her emotions really are for the majority of the time we see her (though its not obvious until the end), her love is her... so to quote you directly: "...symbolic of how far Homura's heart is from Madoka" - " [Homura is]...really cut off from her emotions" and she does this willingly after having alienated madoka. so even though its an expression, it is apt in my opinion... she is dead on the inside.

 

though i can't point to a specific spot where homura ignores madoka's feelings in the original series, i am sure it happens. but in the original series it would have been for madoka's benefit. and what i was trying to get at was that homura came to the conclusion at the end of the original series that it was madoka's decision, and i think homura progresses as a person because of that... and then she did a 270, she wasn't ignoring madoka's feelings in TRS in order to help madoka live a peaceful life, she was ignoring madoka's feelings for her own satisfaction.

 

i would like to reiterate what i said before, that homura's feelings for madoka are not longer really love. in a relationship if a person's character evolves and they change over time (consciously or unconsciously) you either accept that or you move on. in what world is it ok to ensnare a segment of that person, the person you want them to be, not the person they want to be, and imprison them forever in your idea of an suitable world? its ludicrous, and while i love homura and i believe her character development, and i agree with you and AaA about that, the actions that homura took were not motivated by love, but by despair and obsession, projecting what she wanted onto an unwilling canvas. its terrible and heartbreaking

...ok, now maybe i did take a definitive stance on morality with this series there. but i was doing it in a way that applied only to homura's emotion motivated actions toward madoka, but i am open minded, and i agree with most of what you said isichar (and you as well AaA, and this paragraph is part rant, part rational thinking, all opinion, so hey  )

 

i agree what kyubey did was wrong, and how he tortured all those girls was also wrong, and i think what you are trying to say is that kyubey's race was saved because of the magical girl system, so from a purely mathematical stand point he was justified. that said, i think it was immoral (on different grounds that what you would say i.e. emotional attachment to that "1" person). i say it is immoral because the girls were not informed, because they were being held responsible for the mistakes of kyubey's race (unwillingly, because they weren't informed), and because they suffered at the hands of someone something that didn't regard them as equals. once again, just my opinion. and you can't say definitively that the consequences of your actions are wholly known at the time, but can you really in good conscience condemn 100 people, even people you don't know, just to save one person you love? at what point would the numbers begin to outweigh your love? how many mothers', fathers', lovers' blood would you have on your hands? would you feel no emotions at all after slaughtering those people? i hope anyone would at least pause before they made that decision 

 

*edit: having just remembered that kyubey was doing it because of entropy (omg, physics!! ) i will say that i disagree on a different basis: the fact that the solution was not the only possible one, especially since you have billions of years to decide a better approach, such as traveling to another universe in our multiverse.

 

and some random questions!!!

1. so did homura recreate her soul gem? are the memories of the madoka that she stole trapped inside her new soul gem?

2. i get kyubey was starved for human emotion there at the end, but why exactly? because wraiths stopped appearing? and if so, why did they stop appearing? *edit: and why was he starving? because wasn't the whole human emotion thing implemented to sustain the universe? or was i right about it being used to sustain his race?

3. homura alludes to the fact that she will one day fight madoka, but wouldn't she really be fighting the godoka counterpart of madoka? at what point would they fight?

4. does anyone else think that the homura trapped inside her own labyrinth is a somewhat different homura than the one who trapped madoka? homura inside her own labyrinth was willing to sacrifice herself, and then all of 30 seconds later betrays madoka??? (i think you guys debated this a little bit, with the idea that the two homuras had different simultaneous independent thought processes, but i find this kind of hard to believe really...)

5. are the summary movies 1 & 2 different in any way from the tv series?

 

and if some of my questions were actually answered in trs, i apologize, i want to rewatch it, but after i have finished rewatching the original series.

 

kyouko-sayaka:

Spoiler

when i said confession, i meant with homura-madoka (which i am still wondering if that happened? pretty sure it did...)

but as far as kyouko-sayaka, my opinion is obviously a little skewed because i am a yuri addict (thanks in no small part to you isichar ), but i think if you admitted to yourself during the original series that homura loved madoka (through imagery, dedication, and their relationship) then i think you have to admit that kyouko loved sayaka and vice versa after having watched TRS (and including the stuff from the original)(for the same reasons).

[Dean_the_Young]

So 'Silver Spoon' is a manga made by the same dude who did FMA:B. I'm wondering if it's any good since it won some rewards. It might be worth checking out, no?

 

The first two seasons are out as an anime. It's a farm school story.

 

No, really- it's about a guy who goes to an agricultural school to get away from his family and figure out what he wants to do with his life. There's nothing more violent than killing an animal, and the big problem of the first season's arc is about the main character coming to terms with killing a pig he's nurtured and raised.

 

 

It's peaceful, but pleasant- a real love letter to the farm life, in its difficulties and purpose. It's a coming of age story for the main character, who's trying to figure out what he wants from life, but past that it's very easy going. It doesn't even have the tension of, say, Spice and Wolf, which at least had the threat of death from time to time.

 

I enjoyed it well enough, but going into it with the comparison of FMA:B is going to be an extreme disappointment.