88264 réponses à ce sujet

[Inquisitor Recon]

Clicked on this thread by mistake. Saw last couple of posts.

 

Instant regret.

[TheClonesLegacy]

Clicked on this thread by mistake. Saw last couple of posts.

 

Instant regret.

Would you prefer discussions about Ponies Recon?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Why Japan, why?

[Gravisanimi]

Clicked on this thread by mistake. Saw last couple of posts.

 

Instant regret.

You clearly didn't look high up enough.

 

Did you see all the Yoko images?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Mind was too damaged by the other stuff to notice.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Golden Age Superman is actually pretty weak in comparison to other versions of the character, he couldn't even fly, just jump really high.

So I don't think the analogy works here.

 

Ups. I meant Silver Age.

 

[Lotion Soronarr]

I agree with you here. It's a common flaw for shounen and escalating power levels- almost as bad as the overly common 'I'll get another dozen second winds despite serious injuries because hot blooded.' I don't mind it so much because KLK is so over the top it never pretends to be serious, but I can definitely see where it can't not entertain people.

 

A personal dislike of mine is constantly escalating exponential power growth in shounen. The sort where the Great Big Bad of the arc is suddenly demoted to a lieutenant or mook power level once the hero surpasses them and faces the next challenger. Bleach is replete with this, and some of those other shounen cliches, to the point that after a point the entire series is just increasing the magnitude of power to pretend to have some sort of drama. (Except there really is none, because Ichigo will pull out some new power level and as many second winds as needed to win the fight.) Similar problems exist in Fairy Tale and One Piece- no matter how much the heroes get beaten down, they get more and more second winds as the plot demands.

 

 

One of these days, I'd like to see a shounen series with a power canceler character who can't be overcome with hot blooded passion. It'd probably be a deconstructive story, but can you imagine if passion-based powers and growth were suddenly nullified? Where one hot-blooded youth, rather than tearing through hundreds of soldiers and landscape, is instead made tired by sprinting up a hill and then overwhelmed in short order by numbers?

 

I think anime needs a 'End of the Shounen Era' story.

 

 

Nicely put.

 

I really don't like the who "infinite potential/growth" and the "idealization of youth".

Just how many shonen have kids beating up old, experienced masters who dedicated their entire lives to perfecting their martial art/swordsmanship/whatever, only for the kid to master THEIR technique just by watching it ONCE?

 

And yes, the "Second wind because of hot blood". Lords how I hate that. Characters recieve so many wounds they should be dead 100 times over, but they just keep standing up. Even if it's contary to the very lore of the series (I'm looking at you, Seiya)

 

Also, the "power of friendship" gig, where Friendship is a LITERAL power. Ya know, your friends are like a battery that gives you a power boost. Instead of it focusing on what friendship really is and how it should work. Like TEMAWORK. Where people don't just unite their powers into a massive blast (that the enemy never dodges), but rather work as a well oiled, coordinated team and actually use their numbers.

 

[Lotion Soronarr]

That and alot of other reasons make it rather degrading, especially in Yokos case, given the fact she's heavily marketed for her body, despite being a very strong character. I think that's what Gravy means

 

I though her being 14 and heavily marketed for her body would be a bigger problem.And this is one of the reasons I have a love-hate relationship with Japan and anime.

[Milan92]

Finnished Cowboy Bebop. Dat ending. Just beautiful 

 

"Bang..."

[Dean_the_Young]

 

 

@Dean Every shonen should be like JoJo where the only way to stop the godlike big bad is with an amazing deus ex machina.

 

Like sending them off to space.

 

So they stop thinking.

 

Forever. 

 

 

And I will add that Fairy Tail, Bleach and Naruto (after the Chunin arc) have awful fights and bad writing.

 

One Piece and its fights are okay tho, I give more of a pass to it for the same reason you have for KLK, it being more over the top and silly.

 

 

Have you ever read/watched Hunter x Hunter? Not exactly what you are looking for, but it is a bit of a deconstructive of shonen as well as playing it straight. You might find it interesting.

 

 

 

I've watched Hunter x Hunter. I wouldn't say it deconstructs shounen, per say (it subverts the initial art style of an optimistic, care-free setting far more), but there are a number of things that help Hunter x Hunter work that don't apply in other shounen. Two in particular, really.

 

The first is that the protagonists are almost always weaker than their opponents throughout the arc, even to its conclusions. Hunter x Hunter doesn't rely on Heroic Second Winds or rising above the enemy's power level to shrug off their attack in order to claim victory. Instead, victory comes in marginal forms with superior planning, exploiting rules and conditions, and a heck of a lot of compromise. Hunter x Hunter is a story of usually limited victories against much stronger opponents, even as Gon and Killua get stronger themselves.

 

The second is that Hunter x Hunter is primarily a psychological thriller. The shounen elements (such as the Nen superpowers) are the setting and context for what is basic in-depth psychological warfare and mind-screwery of hunting and counter-hunting. Even the straight-up fight sequences (Hisoka at Heavens Arena, the Mad Bomber fight, the Chimera Ant raid) are loaded with mental gambits of bluff, intuition, and deception on a variety of levels. Where a shounen like KLK, Gurren Lagann, One Piece, or Bleach will rely on overwhelming over-the-top power duels and consider a 'mastermind' to be an Aizen-like 'this is all according to my calculations,' HxH can make even a Dodge Ball game a matter of life and death with actual strategy and trickery against a much stronger opponent.

 

 

 

 

'Good' shounen depend on what you want out of them. Basic hot-blooded passion and over-the-top powers are totally The Thing of the genre, so hating anime that have them is kind of missing a point. It'd be like hating a romantic comedy for being a romantic comedy, rather than a romantic drama. But it definitely isn't for everyone, nor should someone be dismissed as a curmudgeon for not enjoying shounen.

 

Heck, I don't particularly care for shounen. Too often they go off the rails of what I found interesting, like Naruto: early on, the idea was that trickery and strategy was far more important than raw-power jutsus. Pretty much everyone was a one-trick pony, except elites who managed to gain another trick or two like summoning or an artificial enhancement, but even they could be tricked and affected by much less powerful. Post-time skip, though, the shounen exponential power levels and umpteen different versions of combat regeneration/immortality made everything a relative slugfest of power.

 

Ninja messiah figures with godlike powers is a lot less interesting than a story about a setting that uses child soldiers as cannon fodder and is institutionally dedicated to a perpetual and quite frankly horrific permanent war footing of small military dictatorships committed to war for their own survival and prosperity.

[Dean_the_Young]

Nicely put.

 

I really don't like the who "infinite potential/growth" and the "idealization of youth".

Just how many shonen have kids beating up old, experienced masters who dedicated their entire lives to perfecting their martial art/swordsmanship/whatever, only for the kid to master THEIR technique just by watching it ONCE?

 

And yes, the "Second wind because of hot blood". Lords how I hate that. Characters recieve so many wounds they should be dead 100 times over, but they just keep standing up. Even if it's contary to the very lore of the series (I'm looking at you, Seiya)

 

Also, the "power of friendship" gig, where Friendship is a LITERAL power. Ya know, your friends are like a battery that gives you a power boost. Instead of it focusing on what friendship really is and how it should work. Like TEMAWORK. Where people don't just unite their powers into a massive blast (that the enemy never dodges), but rather work as a well oiled, coordinated team and actually use their numbers.

 

Personally I can enjoy a setting in which emotions are an established form or means of power. I think they can make good contexts for stories to focus on characterization and character development of learning to understanding, discipline, and emotional maturity to get greater levels of power. It's the kind of story in which good intentions and passion may suffice for the start, but by the end the emotional power needed to save the world is the emotional maturity that you can say is deserving to save the world.

 

That's something I really enjoyed about the first seasons of digimon, and still respect to this day. In the first two seasons especially, power past the first levels was a matter of channeling an aspect of emotional maturity: courage, friendship, love, reliability, etc. What that meant, and how it was reached, was the crux of a number of arcs: the leader character's rashness and recklessness leads to disaster twice, the chosen child of reliability is one of the biggest and seemingly cowardly worrywarts of the cast, the bearer of friendship has the most clashes within the team... and yet by working through it and gaining maturity they gain more power.

 

Granted, it's more of a tier system, but it's one of the few times I've felt unequal power levels generally worked.

[Mr.House]

Give me a minute, I'm going to gush over Yoko's biggest asset

 

 

No no no, I talking about your rifle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*drools*

 

You would- nah, you would probably know how much NSFW I had to wade through to find these gifs.

 

Indeed, dat rifle.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Personally I can enjoy a setting in which emotions are an established form or means of power. I think they can make good contexts for stories to focus on characterization and character development of learning to understanding, discipline, and emotional maturity to get greater levels of power. It's the kind of story in which good intentions and passion may suffice for the start, but by the end the emotional power needed to save the world is the emotional maturity that you can say is deserving to save the world.

 

In short, something like this:

 

[Mr.House]

In short, something like this:

 

Stop spreading around your taste man, this is a anime thread. If you want to talk about Barbie go make a barbie thread.

[Mr.House]

Actually Yoko was 16 in part 1, but because how her village counted years, she was 14 for them(each village counted years differently), confirmed by Gainax.

[Susty Randusky]

She could be 42, she's still a babe xD

[Mr.House]

She could be 42, she's still a babe xD

[Mr.House]

Yesssssssssssssssss

[Milan92]

[Puzzlewell]

So my brain's a little too snoozy to write anything even vaguely in-depth but I finally finished KlK last night. Such an incredibly satisfying experience. :') Looking forward to that OVA whenever it's supposed to come out! It's definitely a series that will get a re-watch at some point and as expected, the soundtrack is going to be a staple of my listening time. :3

 

Now, because I don't currently have any GIFs saved, dear rescue squad, please feel free to gush visually for me!