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[Some Geth]

I like cool things.

 

It's also cool that there is a rule of cool.

 

But most cool things don't play by the rules.

 

So I don't get it.

 

Mega Man is really cool tho I know that at least.

[Isichar]

@Fidite Nemini

 

Spoiler

The thing is the only witch that is claimed to be powerful enough to destroy the Earth is Madoka's Kriemhild Gretchen, and that witch only appears after energy has already been collected from Madoka's transformation, which alone is enough to meet the quota so it's sort of a special situation.

 

The point being: The Earth will only get destroyed in a situation that coincides QB meet his quota, so far as we know.

 

What are the lives of a few girls worth when put up against that of the rest of humanity?

What is the lives of all of humanity worth when put up against the lives of the rest of the galaxy?

 

"The rather obvious problem is however that if Kyubei, or They, don't care what happens to Earth and all existence on it because They met their quota is that is means there's no merit to that greater good."

 

Are you sure? Isn't the same true for the entire magical girl system though? You could say it has no merit because it destroys the lives of the girls in order to advance humanity. Isn't the whole point of the "greater good" mentality that you ignore morality to a certain extent to focus on the bigger picture?

 

This is QB's reasoning. Nothing it does is ever wrong (to it) because what it's trying to save is worth more then what is being sacrificed. it's not until the lives of it's own race are effected that it even considers that the system in place is "too dangerous" and ironically enough at that point it's too late. The other ironic truth is that if QB was patient it could have collected enough energy in time, but instead it got greedy and as a result lost everything.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Shooting a vulcan cannon attached to my arm that shouldn't even be possible with an android body is the definition of cool, and no one can convince me otherwise, or that its inclusion is a bad thing.

 

Technically, it is possible for a human to shoot a minigun. Hard as hell, and not advisable, but possible.

A vulcan is a 20mm version of the minigun..so no.

 

Now I personally don't think that "doing impossible things = COOL"

 

Cool is subjective as hell. Some people think dark glasses and raincoats are cool. Brooding is cool.

As a kid I considered a lot of things cool, that I now find incredibly stupid.

[Fidite Nemini]

Spoiler

 

Well greater good doesn't always include every little piece of everything. Humanity is welcome to the greater stage IF humanity manage to survive that long. [...]

 

Spoiler

How could They embrace humanity IF they survive long enough, when They were actively escalating the problem? Wasn't Kyubei hellbent on getting Madoka precisely because he knew she'd be strong and thus a good energy ressource? Didn't he also knew or at the very least simply accept the very likely propability that such a powerful magical girl would inevitably turn out to become a witch that would destroy the whole planet?

And then They aren't even sorry when the whole thing escalates. You'd expect someone who tries to argue on the merit of the greater good that they'd feel sorry for something like planet-scale extinctions, but when confronted it's "meh, don't care".

And before someone tries to argue the "alien feelings and such" line: They say they do this for the greater good. That means they can empathize with others, hence they very much understand the concept of emotions. Hell, they're understand emotions good enough to farm them for energy. "Don't care" is not the response of someone whose ultimate goal is to do good, even if circumstance would require them to do extreme things. And if their value system were so alien that stuff like planet-scale extinction isn't considered bad enough to care about it, then by all means, I can live without that kind of greater good.


I simply can't accept any argumentation about the greater good, when all indicators are showing a genocidal, manipulative bastard who's been lying/withholding crucial informations for their purpose and the ONLY thing that would support their case has to be taken at face value because They told you it's like that.


If an alien would come up to you and tell you he has to suck all the blood from every being on the planet because it helps the greater good, then continues to manipulate people into accepting the contract at every turn, would you believe him?

 

 

 

There is a Pantheon of Holy Animes you should only gush over or stay silent about it. Any criticisms about those will be met with a kawaii Nonon gif and be ignored.

 

Choosing to ignore opinions that don't coincide with your's is your prerogative. Don't hold me to the same values.

[Isichar]

I'm not going to lie Fidite Nemini, I think you're completely missing the whole point of the greater good argument.

 

I'll say it again: The whole point of the greater good argument is that you ignore morality to a certain extent to focus on the bigger picture. I'm not saying your wrong for disagreeing with it, but you need to understand the standards which it's judging the situation is completely different then your own.

[Fidite Nemini]

I'm not going to lie Fidite Nemini, I think you're completely missing the whole point of the greater good argument.

 

I'll say it again: The whole point of the greater good argument is that you ignore morality to a certain extent to focus on the bigger picture. I'm not saying your wrong for disagreeing with it, but you need to understand the standards which it's judging the situation is completely different then your own.

 

That is possibly true.

 

However I would also argue that if I'm stuck to my own value system as deep as to not see the merit in their greater good values to so thoroughly disapprove as I do, I wouldn't prosper in their system even if humanity would survive to join the galactic scale, so their greater good isn't really good at all for me.

Spoiler

And seeing how the universe is either not dying for trillions of years, or in case They are the only thing keeping it in a life supporting state, there is objectively no reason for me to care about it, because I wouldn't see anything of it, no matter how it turns out.

 

 

Well, agreeing on disagreeing it is I presume.

AT the very least it was a somewhat enjoyable watch and spawned a nice enough discussion. So in the end, the anime was worth it. Thanks again.

[Fidite Nemini]

But you're not QB.

 

I never took QB's philosophy as something you're supposed to personally accept as compelling, just something that you can understand how a creature devoid of empathy or emotions would find it so.

 

Like I said, a creatue that's claiming to do its thing for the benefit of everyone/everything by definition is capable of empathy.

[Dean_the_Young]

Martial art being the ultimate power kinda raises the question why anyone bother with anything else?

 

Why have guns or tanks or armies when a single hot-blooded youth can in a few years (often less) of training wipe the floor with all of them? Or when any Joe with training can blow up planets.

It's even worse when such bullet-dodging, super-speed, super-strength, super-durability feats are applied to SWORDSMEN or GUNMEN.

 

I really do think that one of the next epic deconstruction anime hits is going to be a deconstruction of the shounen hero. In the same way that Puella was a deconstruction of the benevolent magical girl concept by focusing on the dark side of wishes and idealism-fueled powers, you could get some good mileage if the typical shounen hero powers were as destructive on people as they were on the terrain. Your traditional heroic beat down of dozens or hundreds would come across more as mob massacres than as exciting but ultimately harmless fun.

 

It doesn't even have to be shounen, really. Imagine how bloody Pokemon would be if they showed a bit of blood and bone, and had 'humans' as 'prey' rather than the unquestioned dominant species.

[Fidite Nemini]

At the very least it's a very skewed empathy. Its idea of "benefit" isn't the same as yours.

 

Madoka and humanity should be happy to sacrifice themselves for the greater good, in its eyes. It tells Madoka this directly.

 

 

Noting this has gone to a very subjective acceptance question, I'd say that being supposed to feel happy about being driven to such emitional distress that it tearns your soul apart (that is how they farm the energy after all) is contradictory.

[xAmilli0n]

Spoiler

How could They embrace humanity IF they survive long enough, when They were actively escalating the problem? Wasn't Kyubei hellbent on getting Madoka precisely because he knew she'd be strong and thus a good energy ressource? Didn't he also knew or at the very least simply accept the very likely propability that such a powerful magical girl would inevitably turn out to become a witch that would destroy the whole planet?

And then They aren't even sorry when the whole thing escalates. You'd expect someone who tries to argue on the merit of the greater good that they'd feel sorry for something like planet-scale extinctions, but when confronted it's "meh, don't care".

And before someone tries to argue the "alien feelings and such" line: They say they do this for the greater good. That means they can empathize with others, hence they very much understand the concept of emotions. Hell, they're understand emotions good enough to farm them for energy. "Don't care" is not the response of someone whose ultimate goal is to do good, even if circumstance would require them to do extreme things. And if their value system were so alien that stuff like planet-scale extinction isn't considered bad enough to care about it, then by all means, I can live without that kind of greater good.


I simply can't accept any argumentation about the greater good, when all indicators are showing a genocidal, manipulative bastard who's been lying/withholding crucial informations for their purpose and the ONLY thing that would support their case has to be taken at face value because They told you it's like that.


If an alien would come up to you and tell you he has to suck all the blood from every being on the planet because it helps the greater good, then continues to manipulate people into accepting the contract at every turn, would you believe him?

 

I'll chime in I guess.

 

Spoiler

 

Kyubey wanted Madoka to become a magical girl because he new that her adolescent-magical-universe-stabilizing-energy-of-despair would be over 9000 when she turned into a witch.  Turning into a witch is what he wants (is Kyubey a he, I forget).  If it destroys the world, its all cool, it would have given enough energy to let them find another solution later.  He never intended for that, but its currently the best solution.

 

At the end it is for the greater good of the universe, humanity is just not included in the greater part.  Simple enough.

 

And Kyubey is a manipulative bastard.  And withholding information helps him out, and he isn't telling a lie.  Nothing wrong there.

 

As for the last part, yeah I'd believe him, nothing so far is telling me he is lying.  Of course, my reaction would be somewhat like Homura in the  "F U alien overload" kinda way.

 

 

Anyways, I just wanted to give my take on a few things you mentioned.

 

 

Choosing to ignore opinions that don't coincide with your's is your prerogative. Don't hold me to the same values.

 

You guys are all too serious.

 

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Serious at the level of Oberstein...

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Just watched Aldnoah episode 2. Interesting stuff- at this point it really does look like it's going to be a super robot vs. real robot sort of show, only with the bad guys having the super robots. Which has potential, but I do hope the Earthlings start putting up some sort of meaningful resistance soon, or else it won't make sense how they could have lasted the first war or how the second could work.

 

At this point, it looks like all the martian mechs have a superpower. If the show just becomes 'find the weakness and exploit with a clever gambit', I'd be a bit disappointed, but hopefully it won't just be that.

 

 

 

Also, Space Dandy actually went into creepy territory. But there was surfing, so it was okay.

[Dean_the_Young]

That sounds terrible. If that's the next hit I quit anime.

 

If it makes you feel better, it's already a fanfiction.

 

Spoiler: everyone you love dies and is mauled or eaten by monsters.

[CrazyRah]

But you're not QB.

 

I never took QB's philosophy as something you're supposed to personally accept as compelling, just something that you can understand how a creature devoid of empathy or emotions would find it so.

 

I'm of the same mind. Taking QB's way of thining as compelling is rather terrifying to me and something that i just can't possible do but that's also quite different from having an understanding of his views. They are rather scary 

 

Now with that said.. i'm done with being all serious for today. Time to remember that it's way more fun being a slight bit crazy and 2 times silly

 

[Some Geth]

James already got mauled and eaten by Pokemon in the normal show. It happened a lot.

[Mr.House]

Thread needs more happiness and less gloom.