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[Mystic dream]

A little late to the party, but seriously? Death note was a shonen manga ?
Also:

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Every time I see this:



I just want to bash that face in with a hammer.

Try to imagine the way he laughs in the manga with that picture: *gishishishishi*. You'll propably want something bigger than a hammer after that.

To me one piece got old REALLY fast. The humor got dry by the upteenth time one of the characters makes a point about something, and there's another character in the side with an exaggerated face with pointed teeth yelling at him/her for it. The only real reason I sometimes "read" one piece, is to check the new character designs that pop up, since the mangaka makes some unique character designs. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

HiroVoid wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...
Shounen's basically completely defined by the magazine that publishes it.  Hunter x Hunter and Shingeki No Kyojin that I put are manga that I could see a lot of people easily mistaking for Seinen.  Death Note, while dark, doesn't have any sexual or grusome enough scenes that would warrant it to have be Seinen.  Of course, all manga have to do well enough in a ratings score in the manga or in sales, so I could see why people wouldn't want to risk a dark manga in shounen as much.

Sex and violence = Seinen?

I always thought it's more about maturity of the characters and plot .. (neither which requires sex or vielonce) and who it is aimed at.

Well, like I said, it competely depends on the magazine its published in.  So you can have Seinen that are pretty much the equal to a blood, guts, and sex manga while you can have Shounen like Death Note and others that focus more on story and mature characterization.

I don't care which magazine it's published in. It means nothing as far as categorizing goes.

[HiroVoid]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...
Shounen's basically completely defined by the magazine that publishes it.  Hunter x Hunter and Shingeki No Kyojin that I put are manga that I could see a lot of people easily mistaking for Seinen.  Death Note, while dark, doesn't have any sexual or grusome enough scenes that would warrant it to have be Seinen.  Of course, all manga have to do well enough in a ratings score in the manga or in sales, so I could see why people wouldn't want to risk a dark manga in shounen as much.

Sex and violence = Seinen?

I always thought it's more about maturity of the characters and plot .. (neither which requires sex or vielonce) and who it is aimed at.

Well, like I said, it competely depends on the magazine its published in.  So you can have Seinen that are pretty much the equal to a blood, guts, and sex manga while you can have Shounen like Death Note and others that focus more on story and mature characterization.

I don't care which magazine it's published in. It means nothing as far as categorizing goes.

Shounen and Seinen are just names given to tell you what this manga focuses on demographic wise.    And since people who buy Shounen Jump mainly focuses on middle school/high school students, that's the audience the manga in it tries to focus on.  Therefore, manga like Death Note would still count as Shounen even though it's different from most other Shounen.  You can still have a Shounen that also has the category of tragedy and psychological thriller on it because it's still focusing on those readers in that demographic.

Another example to use: How many people watch Studio Ghibli movies such as Princess Mononoke?  Well, Studio Ghibli movies still focus on the younger demographic, and even though most people would probably consider Princess Mononoke a seinen type anime, it would actually fit more as a Shounen due to it focusing on a younder demographic.  It has nothing to do with how well told the story is.

Also, I still recommend Hunter x  Hunter and Shingeki No Kyojin since I feel like you'll would personally like those.

[eroeru]

Interesting that all anime discussion threads lead to lots of talk about shonen works. Is the reason why no-body talks seinen simply because it's less problematic?

Like, how about some Satoshi Kon appreciation, for a change. Or some talk about the remakes of Neon Genesis Evangelion?

...

Satoshi Kon did everything right, in my opinion, but his masterwork remains Paranoia Agent. The story, and in anime the music by Susumu Hirasawa (of Berserk fame) is all so engrossing, disturbing, and beautiful, in a twisted way.

The NGE remakes I of course thought to be a bit ridiculous and silly, though I was fully able to enjoy them for what they were, all the same. But I truly doubt I would have been interested in the least without my experience from Neon Genesis Evangelion, and the everlasting interest in it.

Modifié par eroeru, 25 janvier 2012 - 06:55 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Î don't categorize DN as Shonen. Period.



Also, NGE? Meh..It's a bucket full of crazy and it shows. And not in a good way.

[eroeru]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Î don't categorize DN as Shonen. Period.



Also, NGE? Meh..It's a bucket full of crazy and it shows. And not in a good way.

You simply haven't gotten it.

Maybe you'd want to be more specific, otherwise people can't get your opinion.

Modifié par eroeru, 25 janvier 2012 - 07:17 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Oh, the "you just don't get it" defense. Cute.

Oh, I get it allright. But it's crap (altough the first few episodes were funny). The writer was commited for heavens sake. the ending is a bunch of deep-sounding psycho-bs.

[eroeru]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Oh, the "you just don't get it" defense. Cute.

Oh, I get it allright. But it's crap (altough the first few episodes were funny). The writer was commited for heavens sake. the ending is a bunch of deep-sounding psycho-bs.

What's an author's problems got to do with the quality of the show/piece? You're clearly not very knowledgeable about the life of many artists, Van Gogh the most obvious example.

Stating that it's bs doesn't help you either. That's just giving it names.
And that's the thing about it - the dislikers tend to give names, not ask questions / pose problems. If you're not at least somewhat open, you're no person to discuss anything with.

[eroeru]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Oh, I get it allright.

People could use some more self-criticism.

Let me explain a bit. Are you aware of the postulates of existentialism? Are you aware of Sartre's or Kierkegaard's position? If not, you don't get half the show well enough.

Modifié par eroeru, 25 janvier 2012 - 09:42 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Pretentious BS.
Symbolism can go die in a fire for all I care. Sprinkling a show with it doesn't automagicly make it a master-piece.

[eroeru]

The symbolism was mostly far-fetched, that much I can give you. And it got worse with the re-makes.

But the heavy metaphorical stuff in character action/interaction is still there. Also the whole feel of it. Yes, it's insane. It's also fantastic.

Stating having content relating to philosophy (or history of philosophy in whole) to be pretentious is somewhat a matter of preference, certainly. But it's mostly an uneducated statement, still.

Does anybody have something about seinen? I for one am a bit tired of talks about shonen.

Modifié par eroeru, 25 janvier 2012 - 09:55 .

[T764]

I saw NGE ten years ago or so and i hated it, the fan service got up my nose and i could not relate to Shinji, although looking back that was likely because i had a similar personality (also why i hated Squall in FFVIII). Having read some of the Manga he was far less of a wuss but i just could not enjoy it. I have no doubt that if i was to watch it today my opinion would reverse.

I have recently been on a retro quest, updating my VHS collection and picking up those older shows i never had the opportunity to watch. Outside of Studio Ghibli and kids shows (my neice is turning into quite the otaku) i think the most recent one i have bought is PaniPoni Dash and that's about five years old.

I think first anime i ever saw was Moomin and i'm fairly certain i saw Porco Rosso on tv when i was a kid, unless there are other films with a pig flying a plane.

[eroeru]

So Moomin is considered an anime? Nice...

It was originally a Finnish kids-show/comic/book. It's really interesting that the Japanese took a liking for it.

As for myself, I've still got lots of Studio Ghibli viewings ahead of me. Porco Rosso for one... The thing is that I never was able to watch movies on my computer, other than very rare flick or two. The 24-minute format is ideal for me.

[Clover Rider]

Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
Has One Piece lost it's main themes? no. Has Naruto lost it's main themes? yes and if you think Sasuke is better than any of the One Piece main cast... My first point still stands stronger than ever now.

Naruto had a lot of humour at the start now you only get one joke for like 50 to 100 chapters and it's never funny(armadillo penis...).

I was talking about overall art but if you want to get into character art fine.

First off what looks so exaggerated about the main cast? they are not realistic sure but why should they? it's an art style and how is Naruto's cast not exaggerated as well?

And what about when Kishimoto messes up drawing the characters?

As for the Lee and Gaara's fight... your reasons why it's bad is because it had a powerful character going against a weak one? and you hate the weak one? that's why you think the fight is bad?

So what that it lost it's themes? It's a long series, the audience will get bored if it's the same thing again and again. I for one am glad for the change.And seriously?Sasuke?He's alrigh but he's no Pain.
On the point of humour, as I said before,humour was only a small part of Naruto and primarily used when he was young(due to his tricksterish nature)

The visual style of both world and characters just doesn't sit well with me(as with DBZ)
I mean look at this
<_<
The exaggerated features just make it worse(like Usopp's Pinnochio nose

As for theses errors you claim to be in Naruto, I can't recall seeing any if at all. You might have to be more specific.
No, I found that fight that fight rather funny because it was so predictable who would win and I was just waiting for Gaara to get serious with him. He is the most pathetic ninja in the anime(and the weirdest looking too:blink:) Not just Lee but Gai too, they're both equally bad.

But seriously stop comparing Naruto and One Piece, you stick to your show and I'll stick to mine. Whatever floats your boat as they say.

"So what that it lost it's theme?' That really how you want to start with me? well okay.

Naruto had great themes like of hard work and being different and being hated for it. Naruto himself was very weak at the start and was hated, we all wanted to see him grow but we didn't all we got was him becoming a "child of destiny" who will always win.

The Pain arc was the ending of Naruto, I mean Naruto got all that he wanted right?

I am sorry but I don't think any audience likes to see a story lose all it's themes(the reasons we got into it) and become a BS black and white story.

And Sasuke and Pain are some of the worst characters I have ever seen in Jump.

As for the humour why the Armadillo penis? Naruto is not a kid at that pont.

Yeah Usopp has a Pnnochio nose that's the joke.

Before I get into why the fight was so good I want to say this. Lee is the most hard working character in all of Naruto more than anyone since he can not use ninja magic, he has to work ten times harder than anyone else, the fact you don't care for Lee and the very big theme of hard work to the series says to me the start of Naruto(the only good part) is not for you.

Now the fight, the fight is really nothing like you say it is, the start of it has Lee going for the first attack but Gaara's hovering sand is protecting him from Lee's hits and Gaara was not serious with him beacuse he wants to see what Lee can do but then after he saw what he can do Gaara think he is weak and goes for the kill and misses beacuse Lee is stil faster than Gaara's sand attacks.

See this is good in battle manga since they both don't know how strong or weak they are, so they use small moves. We "think" Lee is weak(he is not) but Gaara has no clue until he saw Lee only doing normal punches and kicks.

Anyway next part of the fight Gai tells Lee to "take them off" and he happily takes his weights off, he is super fast now to the point he can get by Gaara's hovering sand and attack him! but Garra has a sand armor all over his body.

Thanks to Gaara's bro we get to know his sand armor has weak points like the fact it's not done automatically, it consumes a lot of "Chakra" and it's defense is inferior to the hovering sand.

So Lee gets it in his head to deal a great bit of damage from above the sand to take out the armor and win, he will use the Lotus to do this. After the use of the Lotus Gaara is down! did Lee win? No because what looks like Gaara's body is just a shell made of sand with him not in it, when did he get out? when Lee did the Lotus he briefly paused from the pain of the move and Gaara had the time to get away.

You see if Gaara did not get away he was going to lose there...

Now Gaara is in full on crazy mode and he is just playing with Lee by attacking him over and over and over again, he can't dodge anymore from the pain of the Lotus but he forces himself up to dodge, why? He has something important, that he must protect and prove to everyone, even if it means his own death.

And that something is, even if he can't use Ninja magic he wants to prove, that he can still become an excellent ninja, that's everything to him.

Next part of the fight Lee opens up the third gate of the Eight Gates(even if it kills him) and powers up to the point he is now so strong and fast he is now bashing Gaara all over the top of the battle room. Gaara's sand armor is cracking and is being penetrated, Lee's muscle have been ripped as he opens up the fifth gate to take Gaara out, Gaara's sand can't keep up with him and most of his armor has been peeled off.

As Lee hits him to the ground with his final move Gaara's gourd turns into sand to protect him at the last second. Lee now has no way to win he is out of power full stop and Gaara breaks Lee's arm and leg and has the win but Lee still gets up and he is not even awake anymore, Gai has to stop him before he gets himself killed.

This was a fight of pure offense vs pure defense with a lot of good thinking from both Lee and Gaara, not a one guy was strong and one guy was weak fight. It is the best fight from Naruto.

Yeah I should stop comparing Naruto and One Piece because One Piece is better.

Oh no I think I may have made this post far too long and wrose it's about Naruto... great my cool is all gone.

Modifié par Some Geth, 26 janvier 2012 - 01:29 .

[eroeru]

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

This thread doesn't die...you lock one another spawns lol.

[Andarthiel_Demigod]

Some Geth wrote...

Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
Has One Piece lost it's main themes? no. Has Naruto lost it's main themes? yes and if you think Sasuke is better than any of the One Piece main cast... My first point still stands stronger than ever now.

Naruto had a lot of humour at the start now you only get one joke for like 50 to 100 chapters and it's never funny(armadillo penis...).

I was talking about overall art but if you want to get into character art fine.

First off what looks so exaggerated about the main cast? they are not realistic sure but why should they? it's an art style and how is Naruto's cast not exaggerated as well?

And what about when Kishimoto messes up drawing the characters?

As for the Lee and Gaara's fight... your reasons why it's bad is because it had a powerful character going against a weak one? and you hate the weak one? that's why you think the fight is bad?

So what that it lost it's themes? It's a long series, the audience will get bored if it's the same thing again and again. I for one am glad for the change.And seriously?Sasuke?He's alrigh but he's no Pain.
On the point of humour, as I said before,humour was only a small part of Naruto and primarily used when he was young(due to his tricksterish nature)

The visual style of both world and characters just doesn't sit well with me(as with DBZ)
I mean look at this
<_<
The exaggerated features just make it worse(like Usopp's Pinnochio nose

As for theses errors you claim to be in Naruto, I can't recall seeing any if at all. You might have to be more specific.
No, I found that fight that fight rather funny because it was so predictable who would win and I was just waiting for Gaara to get serious with him. He is the most pathetic ninja in the anime(and the weirdest looking too:blink:) Not just Lee but Gai too, they're both equally bad.

But seriously stop comparing Naruto and One Piece, you stick to your show and I'll stick to mine. Whatever floats your boat as they say.

"So what that it lost it's theme?' That really how you want to start with me? well okay.

Naruto had great themes like of hard work and being different and being hated for it. Naruto himself was very weak at the start and was hated, we all wanted to see him grow but we didn't all we got was him becoming a "child of destiny" who will always win.

The Pain arc was the ending of Naruto, I mean Naruto got all that he wanted right?

I am sorry but I don't think any audience likes to see a story lose all it's themes(the reasons we got into it) and become a BS black and white story.

And Sasuke and Pain are some of the worst characters I have ever seen in Jump.

As for the humour why the Armadillo penis? Naruto is not a kid at that pont.

Yeah Usopp has a Pnnochio nose that's the joke.

Before I get into why the fight was so good I want to say this. Lee is the most hard working character in all of Naruto more than anyone since he can not use ninja magic, he has to work ten times harder than anyone else, the fact you don't care for Lee and the very big theme of hard work to the series says to me the start of Naruto(the only good part) is not for you.

Now the fight, the fight is really nothing like you say it is, the start of it has Lee going for the first attack but Gaara's hovering sand is protecting him from Lee's hits and Gaara was not serious with him beacuse he wants to see what Lee can do but then after he saw what he can do Gaara think he is weak and goes for the kill and misses beacuse Lee is stil faster than Gaara's sand attacks.

See this is good in battle manga since they both don't know how strong or weak they are, so they use small moves. We "think" Lee is weak(he is not) but Gaara has no clue until he saw Lee only doing normal punches and kicks.

Anyway next part of the fight Gai tells Lee to "take them off" and he happily takes his weights off, he is super fast now to the point he can get by Gaara's hovering sand and attack him! but Garra has a sand armor all over his body.

Thanks to Gaara's bro we get to know his sand armor has weak points like the fact it's not done automatically, it consumes a lot of "Chakra" and it's defense is inferior to the hovering sand.

So Lee gets it in his head to deal a great bit of damage from above the sand to take out the armor and win, he will use the Lotus to do this. After the use of the Lotus Gaara is down! did Lee win? No because what looks like Gaara's body is just a shell made of sand with him not in it, when did he get out? when Lee did the Lotus he briefly paused from the pain of the move and Gaara had the time to get away.

You see if Gaara did not get away he was going to lose there...

Now Gaara is in full on crazy mode and he is just playing with Lee by attacking him over and over and over again, he can't dodge anymore from the pain of the Lotus but he forces himself up to dodge, why? He has something important, that he must protect and prove to everyone, even if it means his own death.

And that something is, even if he can't use Ninja magic he wants to prove, that he can still become an excellent ninja, that's everything to him.

Next part of the fight Lee opens up the third gate of the Eight Gates(even if it kills him) and powers up to the point he is now so strong and fast he is now bashing Gaara all over the top of the battle room. Gaara's sand armor is cracking and is being penetrated, Lee's muscle have been ripped as he opens up the fifth gate to take Gaara out, Gaara's sand can't keep up with him and most of his armor has been peeled off.

As Lee hits him to the ground with his final move Gaara's gourd turns into sand to protect him at the last second. Lee now has no way to win he is out of power full stop and Gaara breaks Lee's arm and leg and has the win but Lee still gets up and he is not even awake anymore, Gai has to stop him before he gets himself killed.

This was a fight of pure offense vs pure defense with a lot of good thinking from both Lee and Gaara, not a one guy was strong and one guy was weak fight. It is the best fight from Naruto.

Yeah I should stop comparing Naruto and One Piece because One Piece is better.

Oh no I think I may have made this post far too long and wrose it's about Naruto... great my cool is all gone.

Not tru about the Pain Arc. Naruto still hasn't become Hokage, he's still only a Genin if you remember. If it's going to end anywhere then it should be with him as the Sixth Hokage.
If you know anything about Pain's backstory you wouldn't be saying that.
Now I haven't read or watched all the Naruto so far(a little behind) so I don't know the joke you're refferencing there.

I did like the start because of the series because there was a lot of potential and power in Naruto(and at least he can use Ninjutsu:P) even more so with the Nine Tails Fox.Whereas Lee is a boring and a somewhat absurd "ninja" who I have no empathy for whatsoever.

Oh and there is no worse or better when it comes to such things, it's just different.

@Lotion Soronnar
Totally agree with you. I think in terms of the anime series, they screwed up the story and some of the characters. Emo Shinji just gets really annoying by the end. It's one of those things that's better in Manga form than in Anime. I heard that the Manga is quite different and more clear with it's story(and Shinji punches his dad which pleases me). Also I heard some good things about these  reboot movies that are coming out(2.0 etc). So basically anything else is better than the original series:P

Modifié par Andarthiel_Demigod, 26 janvier 2012 - 02:48 .

[eroeru]

Ninjutsu is always kinda dumb in my opinion.

So, naturally, I'd vouch for Lee.

A character with sheer determination is a better selling point than a character who's simply more powerful as far as I'm concerned. Also, I've never gotten the hate for "indecisive" characters. 
And, one has gotta love childish, "pure-hearted" chars, having particularly Goku in mind...

Modifié par eroeru, 26 janvier 2012 - 02:47 .

[ErichHartmann]

Has anyone else watched Hell Girl? I just finished season 3. The story arc spanning from 1 to 3 is pretty amazing I think. Just started watching Kamichu!. It's light on story but really cute (deal with it) and funny.

[eroeru]

I tried the first season, and it seemed interesting, but not so compelling that I'd watch it through.

Maybe it's the premis, or I don't know, something just felt a little dull.

Will try it again in some time though.

Does it get better than the first few eps, any time?

[Clover Rider]

eroeru wrote...

Ninjutsu is always kinda dumb in my opinion.

So, naturally, I'd vouch for Lee.

A character with sheer determination is a better selling point than a character who's simply more powerful as far as I'm concerned. Also, I've never gotten the hate for "indecisive" characters. 
And, one has gotta love childish, "pure-hearted" chars, having particularly Goku in mind...

Lee is the most human character of Naruto in my view.

And yeah childish "pure-hearted" characters are always fun and most of the time they are jerks to characters I hate.

Modifié par Some Geth, 26 janvier 2012 - 02:57 .

[eroeru]

Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

Emo Shinji

If you'd try to deal with some of the stuff going on there yourself, you'd be in worse condition than Shinji, I'd bet.

I've never understood the perspective that a main character has to always be on top of the situation, and stronger than others. That's just so unrealistic and hurtfully absurd. Especially if from a phenomenological perspective (which is true for Evangelion)...

@ Some Geth

Yup, as much as I'd avoid saying it normally, I'm all for anime that has some childhood nostalgia to it. Grown-ups are all too often just biased and full of themselves... both in anime and in real life.

Modifié par eroeru, 26 janvier 2012 - 03:04 .

[Andarthiel_Demigod]

eroeru wrote...

Ninjutsu is always kinda dumb in my opinion.

So, naturally, I'd vouch for Lee.

A character with sheer determination is a better selling point than a character who's simply more powerful as far as I'm concerned. Also, I've never gotten the hate for "indecisive" characters. 
And, one has gotta love childish, "pure-hearted" chars, having particularly Goku in mind...

I find those type of characters naive and annoying for the most part,

[Clover Rider]

Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
Has One Piece lost it's main themes? no. Has Naruto lost it's main themes? yes and if you think Sasuke is better than any of the One Piece main cast... My first point still stands stronger than ever now.

Naruto had a lot of humour at the start now you only get one joke for like 50 to 100 chapters and it's never funny(armadillo penis...).

I was talking about overall art but if you want to get into character art fine.

First off what looks so exaggerated about the main cast? they are not realistic sure but why should they? it's an art style and how is Naruto's cast not exaggerated as well?

And what about when Kishimoto messes up drawing the characters?

As for the Lee and Gaara's fight... your reasons why it's bad is because it had a powerful character going against a weak one? and you hate the weak one? that's why you think the fight is bad?

So what that it lost it's themes? It's a long series, the audience will get bored if it's the same thing again and again. I for one am glad for the change.And seriously?Sasuke?He's alrigh but he's no Pain.
On the point of humour, as I said before,humour was only a small part of Naruto and primarily used when he was young(due to his tricksterish nature)

The visual style of both world and characters just doesn't sit well with me(as with DBZ)
I mean look at this
<_<
The exaggerated features just make it worse(like Usopp's Pinnochio nose

As for theses errors you claim to be in Naruto, I can't recall seeing any if at all. You might have to be more specific.
No, I found that fight that fight rather funny because it was so predictable who would win and I was just waiting for Gaara to get serious with him. He is the most pathetic ninja in the anime(and the weirdest looking too:blink:) Not just Lee but Gai too, they're both equally bad.

But seriously stop comparing Naruto and One Piece, you stick to your show and I'll stick to mine. Whatever floats your boat as they say.

"So what that it lost it's theme?' That really how you want to start with me? well okay.

Naruto had great themes like of hard work and being different and being hated for it. Naruto himself was very weak at the start and was hated, we all wanted to see him grow but we didn't all we got was him becoming a "child of destiny" who will always win.

The Pain arc was the ending of Naruto, I mean Naruto got all that he wanted right?

I am sorry but I don't think any audience likes to see a story lose all it's themes(the reasons we got into it) and become a BS black and white story.

And Sasuke and Pain are some of the worst characters I have ever seen in Jump.

As for the humour why the Armadillo penis? Naruto is not a kid at that pont.

Yeah Usopp has a Pnnochio nose that's the joke.

Before I get into why the fight was so good I want to say this. Lee is the most hard working character in all of Naruto more than anyone since he can not use ninja magic, he has to work ten times harder than anyone else, the fact you don't care for Lee and the very big theme of hard work to the series says to me the start of Naruto(the only good part) is not for you.

Now the fight, the fight is really nothing like you say it is, the start of it has Lee going for the first attack but Gaara's hovering sand is protecting him from Lee's hits and Gaara was not serious with him beacuse he wants to see what Lee can do but then after he saw what he can do Gaara think he is weak and goes for the kill and misses beacuse Lee is stil faster than Gaara's sand attacks.

See this is good in battle manga since they both don't know how strong or weak they are, so they use small moves. We "think" Lee is weak(he is not) but Gaara has no clue until he saw Lee only doing normal punches and kicks.

Anyway next part of the fight Gai tells Lee to "take them off" and he happily takes his weights off, he is super fast now to the point he can get by Gaara's hovering sand and attack him! but Garra has a sand armor all over his body.

Thanks to Gaara's bro we get to know his sand armor has weak points like the fact it's not done automatically, it consumes a lot of "Chakra" and it's defense is inferior to the hovering sand.

So Lee gets it in his head to deal a great bit of damage from above the sand to take out the armor and win, he will use the Lotus to do this. After the use of the Lotus Gaara is down! did Lee win? No because what looks like Gaara's body is just a shell made of sand with him not in it, when did he get out? when Lee did the Lotus he briefly paused from the pain of the move and Gaara had the time to get away.

You see if Gaara did not get away he was going to lose there...

Now Gaara is in full on crazy mode and he is just playing with Lee by attacking him over and over and over again, he can't dodge anymore from the pain of the Lotus but he forces himself up to dodge, why? He has something important, that he must protect and prove to everyone, even if it means his own death.

And that something is, even if he can't use Ninja magic he wants to prove, that he can still become an excellent ninja, that's everything to him.

Next part of the fight Lee opens up the third gate of the Eight Gates(even if it kills him) and powers up to the point he is now so strong and fast he is now bashing Gaara all over the top of the battle room. Gaara's sand armor is cracking and is being penetrated, Lee's muscle have been ripped as he opens up the fifth gate to take Gaara out, Gaara's sand can't keep up with him and most of his armor has been peeled off.

As Lee hits him to the ground with his final move Gaara's gourd turns into sand to protect him at the last second. Lee now has no way to win he is out of power full stop and Gaara breaks Lee's arm and leg and has the win but Lee still gets up and he is not even awake anymore, Gai has to stop him before he gets himself killed.

This was a fight of pure offense vs pure defense with a lot of good thinking from both Lee and Gaara, not a one guy was strong and one guy was weak fight. It is the best fight from Naruto.

Yeah I should stop comparing Naruto and One Piece because One Piece is better.

Oh no I think I may have made this post far too long and wrose it's about Naruto... great my cool is all gone.

Not tru about the Pain Arc. Naruto still hasn't become Hokage, he's still only a Genin if you remember. If it's going to end anywhere then it should be with him as the Sixth Hokage.
If you know anything about Pain's backstory you wouldn't be saying that.
Now I haven't read or watched all the Naruto so far(a little behind) so I don't know the joke you're refferencing there.

I did like the start because of the series because there was a lot of potential and power in Naruto(and at least he can use Ninjutsu:P) even more so with the Nine Tails Fox.Whereas Lee is a boring and a somewhat absurd "ninja" who I have no empathy for whatsoever.

Oh and there is no worse or better when it comes to such things, it's just different.

@Lotion Soronnar
Totally agree with you. I think in terms of the anime series, they screwed up the story and some of the characters. Emo Shinji just gets really annoying by the end. It's one of those things that's better in Manga form than in Anime. I heard that the Manga is quite different and more clear with it's story(and Shinji punches his dad which pleases me). Also I heard some good things about these  reboot movies that are coming out(2.0 etc). So basically anything else is better than the original series:P

Naruto is Hokage in everything but name and Danzo was the Sixth Hokage.

I know everything about Pain's backstory and his stupid dog named Tiny.

I can't link the joke I don't need a ban and I don't want to see it and I know you don't want to see it.

Lee is still better than the main cast.

And yeah there is worse or better when it comes to manga like this, no stories like this.

I mean look Bleach it is the worst manga in all of Jump and is one of the worst manga of all. If Sasuke is redeemed, Naruto is going in the unreadable zone.

@eroeru Part of why I keep up with stuff for kids is because when I have kids I want them to have good things to read, things like One Piece would have made me a happy kid.

Modifié par Some Geth, 26 janvier 2012 - 03:20 .

[eroeru]

Guys, cut it with the massive quote trees. Or else the line comes to an end...