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#21526
Il Divo

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It's a shame. Because there are things he does so right. The Third was one of them. And I especially like the world Naruto's based of (which makes me look forward to reading One Piece because I've heard its world building is one of its greatest strengths.)

 

I'd agree with that. I think one problem Naruto runs into is that alot of the themes it ends up wanting to deal with don't synch up too well with some of the light-hearted, shonen components of the manga/show. This is a world where ninjas are trained to be weapons to be used against each other to harm and kill, but that doesn't really seem fitting given the easy-going Ninja school life the kids deal with. It's written to be your normal grade school, but with super powers.   <_<



#21527
Fidite Nemini

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I'd agree with that. I think one problem Naruto runs into is that alot of the themes it ends up wanting to deal with don't synch up too well with some of the light-hearted, shonen components of the manga/show. This is a world where ninjas are trained to be weapons to be used against each other to harm and kill, but that doesn't really seem fitting given the easy-going Ninja school life the kids deal with. It's written to be your normal grade school, but with super powers.  :(

 

 

Like I said, the Zabuza/Haku arc is the best for the entire manga/anime. It's got the atmosphere, the setting and the action down perfect. Everything that comes thereafter pales in comparision or is outright bad.


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#21528
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It certainly is a fair point, but this is why I used 'ignorance is bliss' Tsunade would have been far less reluctant if Oro wouldn't have said anything. Sure she would have known he was up to know good, but the mere fact that she is otherwise ignorant on the specifics could have been enough for her to shrug off any doubts she might have had and "hoped for the best." If she was on the verge of doing it anyway, imagine if he hadn't said anything.

 

This can be forgiven though. Miscalculation, an oversight etc... (though his IMMA BREAK DA CASTLE" entrance isn't. You're villains aren't scary because they can break walls. Everybody in Naruto can f*cking break walls.)

 

Still, it's more of his "well, I can do this without you" thing that bothers me. It's an ass-pull and unless Plan B is the most troublesome, costly and freaking laborious thing there is for Oro to do this whole thing with Tsunade was absolutely pointless.



#21529
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Like I said, the Zabuza/Haku arc is the best for the entire manga/anime. It's got the atmosphere, the setting and the action down perfect. Everything that comes thereafter pales in comparision or is outright bad.

 

Personally, I thought it had none of those things. (Strictly imo), the dialogue was amateurish, the action was extremely bland/mind-boggling (Zabuza holding a dagger in his teeth killing mafia goons), and it started us down the whole road of the Ninja Academy and the concept of D rank missions composed of catching cats and mowing the lawn. It got Naruto off on the wrong start-up. 



#21530
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Okay.

 

Who has Geth-sama/satan on steam?

 

Is this like? His job?

 

YES GETH.

 

YOU'RE ACTUALLY TOGASHI IN DISGUISE!

Can't wait for Dragon Quest Heroes.



#21531
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Like I said, the Zabuza/Haku arc is the best for the entire manga/anime. It's got the atmosphere, the setting and the action down perfect. Everything that comes thereafter pales in comparision or is outright bad.

 

Perhaps in the manga, but the anime battle was atrociously paced and the most boring thing I've watched in any anime ever. Sure it was CLEVER, but just not meant for anime. It was just boring. Really boring. Especially when they put all the development into flashbacks that took the fight six episodes to complete.

 

Lee v Gaara

Naruto v Gaara

Hokage v Oro

Shikamaru v Temari

Sasuke v Gaara

Lee v Sound a-holes

Shikumaru's team v Sound a-holes

Naruto v Neji

Gai doing anything

 

(Christ garaa has tons)

 

Those were really cool fights.


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#21532
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Still, it's more of his "well, I can do this without you" thing that bothers me. It's an ass-pull and unless Plan B is the most troublesome, costly and freaking laborious thing there is for Oro to do this whole thing with Tsunade was absolutely pointless.

 

Well, it's not.  :P

 

Unless I'm forgetting something critical, his Plan B does turn out to be pretty easy to handle. 

 

The only down side that I recall is that his plan B technique has a very long cool down, preventing him from using it for his original purpose. I could go into more detail, but I'm not sure how much you're worried about spoilers. 



#21533
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Can't wait for Dragon Quest Heroes.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:



#21534
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Well, it's not.  :P

 

Unless I'm forgetting something critical, his Plan B does turn out to be pretty easy to handle. 

 

Well then. That s*cks and makes the whole Tsunade thing so freaking pointless. Unless it was foreshadowed. But it's not. See things like this need logic and reasons. There has to be a reason THIS happens and THAT instead of THIS because it not your story just goes all over the place.



#21535
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I can spare you much drama and say that you've already seen the very best the show has to offer. No arc surpasses the Zabuza/Haku Land of Waves one and after you've seen the fights in th Chuunin exam, you've seen the best fights this show had for a long, long time. Granted, some of the fights in Shippuuden aren't bad, but there's too much bedazzle around those to make it worthwhile dragging yourself to the plethora of asspulls that will come.

 

 

And if the Sasuke at that point you're watching right now is already bad in your opinion, then you'll positively groaning in pain when you get into Shippuuden.

 

Pretty much this. I actually agree that the Zabuza/Haku arc was overall one of the strongest in the series and the Chuunin exam was pretty interesting as well. The series never really reached the same heights for me after that. Not to say the rest doesn't have some good moments but it's not the same.

 

@Sim

 

I shouldn't say there's no strong female presence in the series after the eclipse, it's just noticeably less. There's 2 main female characters you still have to meet and I find them both interesting, they're just not strong the way Caska was. I'm interested to hear your opinions on the 2nd set of characters you meet with the post eclipse.

 

I've been thinking a lot about this series today so I'm going to dump some thought's on you here.

 

Even though the eclipse was the most memorable moment in the series and one of the most important you still have so much greatness ahead of you that I can't help but get a bit excited just waiting for you to get to certain parts. The world of Berserk begins to change significantly which will become more and more apparent with many aspects of the story as you go on.

 

Spoiler

 

P.S. excuse my bad grammar. You should be use to it by now :P



#21536
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Personally, I thought it had none of those things. (Strictly imo), the dialogue was amateurish, the action was extremely bland/mind-boggling (Zabuza holding a dagger in his teeth killing mafia goons), and it started us down the whole road of the Ninja Academy and the concept of D rank missions composed of catching cats and mowing the lawn. It got Naruto off on the wrong start-up. 

 

Haku having been raised as a living weapon and Sakura nearly having a nervous breakdown after explaining the ninja teachings about surpressing all kinds of emotions pretty much is the kicker for the whole "ninjas are tools for war" theme the manga had going at that point.

 

After that arc, it pretty much degenerated into "powerful ninjas making trouble" and a lot more focus on fights.



#21537
Il Divo

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Haku having been raised as a living weapon and Sakura nearly having a nervous breakdown after explaining the ninja teachings about surpressing all kinds of emotions pretty much is the kicker for the whole "ninjas are tools for war" theme the manga had going at that point.

 

After that arc, it pretty much degenerated into "powerful ninjas making trouble" and a lot more focus on fights.

 

But it also started with kids in grade school receiving grades for their transformations complete with laughs, and household chores. 

 

Shippuden was really the point on  a large scale where the series starts picking up on just what the hell is wrong with the Ninja World. Issues like Jiraiya wanting to prevent the Cycle of Hatred, the spiraling Uchiha-Senju conflicts, Pain's entire back story, especially the origin of Kakashi's Sharingan, etc. Just the concept of every village constantly wanting revenge for all their lost family members sold that point home pretty well. I thought these all handled it much better than Haku and Zabuza, which quite often devolved into melodrama.  

 

I considered Naruto to be at its strongest once the whole "grade school" atmosphere was abandoned. 



#21538
Isichar

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Haku having been raised as a living weapon and Sakura nearly having a nervous breakdown after explaining the ninja teachings about surpressing all kinds of emotions pretty much is the kicker for the whole "ninjas are tools for war" theme the manga had going at that point.

 

After that arc, it pretty much degenerated into "powerful ninjas making trouble" and a lot more focus on fights.

 

Truth



#21539
Clover Rider

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The Zabuza and Haku stuff was a good start to the series that shows a lot of promise.

 

The Chūnin Exam arc is the best arc tho. Everything after is meh to god-awful.



#21540
Isichar

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Not everything Nef. There was also episode 101 after all.



#21541
Clover Rider

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Talking manga here.

 

Also it's Pitou plz.



#21542
Isichar

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My main issue with Naruto is that I don't have the same tasted I did when I was 14 and this series was starting out. Why can't writers just think out a meaningful story? Naruto has long since lost any ability to leave any kind of meaningful impact on me even though it use to be like my favorite series ever. There's no reason for it to have gone on for so long, no theme that needed this amount of time to be expanded on, it was just throwing epic fights and events at you for the sake of making the story feel epic. I remember nearly crying on some parts because of how much I liked the characters and now I just roll my eyes because I know more often then not the story is going to do some asspull to keep characters alive or just drag the plot out even more.



#21543
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Talking manga here. Get on my level.


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#21544
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My main issue with Naruto is that I don't have the same tasted I did when I was 14 and this series was starting out. Why can't writers just think out a meaningful story? Naruto has long since lost any ability to leave any kind of meaningful impact on me even though it use to be like my favorite series ever. There's no reason for it to have gone on for so long, no theme that needed this amount of time to be expanded on, it was just throwing epic fights and events at you for the sake of making the story feel epic. I remember nearly crying on some parts because of how much I liked the characters and now I just roll my eyes because I know more often then not the story is going to do some asspull to keep characters alive or just drag the plot out even more.

I never could get into Naruto, but the reason it is likely still going on is because it is a guaranteed paycheck. What I mean is, it's popular and people are guaranteed to buy the merchandise for it. If they wrapped it up, they would have to make something else and that something else might not end up becoming anywhere near as popular as Naruto and thus they would be making less money from it than they would have if they had just kept Naruto going (even if its quality continued to drop, because Nostalgia is a powerful thing). 



#21545
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I never could get into Naruto, but the reason it is likely still going on is because it is a guaranteed paycheck. What I mean is, it's popular and people are guaranteed to buy the merchandise for it. If they wrapped it up, they would have to make something else and that something else might not end up becoming anywhere near as popular as Naruto and thus they would be making less money from it than they would have if they had just kept Naruto going (even if its quality continued to drop, because Nostalgia is a powerful thing). 

 

Honestly, I'm half-expecting another time skip as a "plot twist" just to keep the manga going even further. 



#21546
Clover Rider

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Sure kids and kids that never grow up will still like it. But for me it's not about my age or taste or whatever. It just got bad. Part of it is because Kishimoto stopped caring at certain points and another part of it is he was never that good to begin with. I say the Chūnin Exam arc is the best arc but HxH did it better with its first arc. lol So yeah the series was never going to be the next Dragon Ball/Shonen Jump king and he was never going to be the next Toriyama.



#21547
Isichar

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I never could get into Naruto, but the reason it is likely still going on is because it is a guaranteed paycheck. What I mean is, it's popular and people are guaranteed to buy the merchandise for it. If they wrapped it up, they would have to make something else and that something else might not end up becoming anywhere near as popular as Naruto and thus they would be making less money from it than they would have if they had just kept Naruto going (even if its quality continued to drop, because Nostalgia is a powerful thing). 

 

Exactly. It's an easy sell because people are already invested enough in it. Why care about whether your story is good or not when people will watch it regardless?

 

It's pretty much like the author is just flat out saying he couldn't care less. I mean I'm sure he still does to some extent but obviously getting that paycheque was more important then giving the series a decent conclusion that isn't strung along for god knows how long and full of ass pulls.



#21548
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Long before this point he could have stopped whenever and lived off of all the money Naruto and Naruto merchandise gets him. Togashi did the same thing with YuYu Hakusho he just ended it because f**k you.

 

Sure he did a manga later, Something x Something but I think he used to like making manga and he was younger back then.

 

Oh well Naruto is almost done anyways I hope. After that Kishimoto will just do one-shots I bet.



#21549
Isichar

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I'm a bit curious what others consider to be the longest series that is still able to retain some kind of message that makes it worthwhile to actually sit through compared to some of the shorter 12-26 episode animes? I have yet to see an anime above 100 episodes that I consider to be worth the investment in terms of delivering a meaningful theme. There's a couple like Rurouni kenshin which I can enjoy but I would struggle to spend even half as much time discussing the themes in that as I would with PMMM or SSY. From what I can gather LoGH or w.e sounds like a solid watch for a longer one but that seems like the rare exception and even that is not half as long as many of these other ones that are still ongoing.

 

When I start a longer series I can't but think "I could have watched half a dozen other animes in the time it took to finish this" and I have to question whether the value of that one anime actually outweighed what all those animes I could have watched offered? At least with a shorter one if things go downhill you didn't invest as much time with it as probably won't care so much. With something like Naruto I can't help but laugh at how much time I've wasted on a series that can't have anymore meaningful impact on me, and it's even worse in Bleachs case.

 

So what's your guy's take on this?



#21550
Clover Rider

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Are we just talking anime?

 

Or can we get on my manga level?