748 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

TheCreeper wrote...

We have a mountain of evidence against the HERETIC geth, against True Geth...or only source that isn't hundreds of years out of date is legion.

Outside of Legion, where is there any indication of a difference between Geth?

[AlexXIV]

TheCreeper wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

It actually would have been hilarious if Legion had actually been lying the entire time.

Wouldn't it? 

I would lol.

The thing is, we really aren't given any reason to trust him outside his word and one action as a sniper (which just indicates he doesn't want to kill Shepard).  On the other hand, we have a mountain of evidence against the Geth.

We have a mountain of evidence against the HERETIC geth, against True Geth...or only source that isn't hundreds of years out of date is legion.

I don't think if the question if they lie even matters when they can be rewritten so easily. I mean have you ever fought Geth with a team of engineers/infiltrators?

[didymos1120]

Luc0s wrote...

They are NOTHING LIKE terrorists AT ALL.

Well, both do tend to produce high body counts, so I wouldn't say "AT ALL".

[AgitatedLemon]

Luc0s wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

mrsph wrote...

And what of it?

Is it not a sin to want to romance The Illusive Man or Kai Leng?

(Okay, I'm done.)

Well, one is a terrorist and a compulsive liar.

The other is a psychopathic xenophobic murderer.

How is TIM a terrorist exactly?


I hate it how everyone (including BioWare themselves) are so eager to stick the label "terrorist" on Cerberus and everything that has to do with Cerberus without knowing what it truly means to be a terrorist.


Cerberus is a black ops organisation. They are NOT terrorists. They are NOTHING LIKE terrorists AT ALL.

You mean outside the whole "working for the Reapers" thing?

[1136342t54_]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well the Geth were sort of children. At least very unexperienced with anything that the Quarians didn't teach or upload on them. It is a bit unfair to treat them like they should know what they were doing when they had no information about morale or laws or whatever. After all their own parents wanted to murder them.

I kind of see them initially as similar to the Daleks from Doctor Who during the war. Any time before the war its likely ther were simply inquisitve children but presented with being threatened on a large level they responded in kind with the intention to "EXTERMINATE!!!!" the enemy using purely cold logic. Although from what Legion said in ME2, it seems that the Quarians had always attacked at any chance they got. Maybe there was a time when the Geth stopped attacking them but the Quarians wanted to get their machines back and continued the war?

We just don't know enough about the war, and the only info we can get about the war comes from the pissed off Quarians and Geth who may or may not be lying.

[AlexXIV]

Luc0s wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

mrsph wrote...

And what of it?

Is it not a sin to want to romance The Illusive Man or Kai Leng?

(Okay, I'm done.)

Well, one is a terrorist and a compulsive liar.

The other is a psychopathic xenophobic murderer.

How is TIM a terrorist exactly?


I hate it how everyone (including BioWare themselves) are so eager to stick the label "terrorist" on Cerberus and everything that has to do with Cerberus without knowing what it truly means to be a terrorist.


Cerberus is a black ops organisation. They are not terrorists. They are nothing like terrorists at all.

I think people call him so because paragon Shep does. It is just a flashy way to say bad person who does bad things. Criminal is too weak and so is rogue black ops.

That's because Paragon players try to turn TIM into something he isn't. They do it so they can justify their twisted and idealistic anti-Cerberus views.

The fact of the matter is, that "black ops organisation" is not to weak or a term to describe Cerberus. It's EXACTLY what Cerberus is.

rogue black ops

They don't work for the Alliance anymore. And that's pretty much the point. It's like a spy that doesn't work for any country. Just for himself. He will have no friends and many enemies.

[AgitatedLemon]

@Alex

They have never worked for the Alliance.

[TheCreeper]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

How is TIM a terrorist exactly?


I hate it how everyone (including BioWare themselves) are so eager to stick the label "terrorist" on Cerberus and everything that has to do with Cerberus without knowing what it truly means to be a terrorist.


Cerberus is a black ops organisation. They are not terrorists. They are nothing like terrorists at all.

As of ME3, they are.

Frankly from what I've seen of ME3 I would say they were more a paramilitary group trying to stage a coup.

[AlexXIV]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

@Alex

They have never worked for the Alliance.

I thought they were alliance black ops before they went rogue?

[AgitatedLemon]

Luc0s wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

mrsph wrote...

And what of it?

Is it not a sin to want to romance The Illusive Man or Kai Leng?

(Okay, I'm done.)

Well, one is a terrorist and a compulsive liar.

The other is a psychopathic xenophobic murderer.

How is TIM a terrorist exactly?


I hate it how everyone (including BioWare themselves) are so eager to stick the label "terrorist" on Cerberus and everything that has to do with Cerberus without knowing what it truly means to be a terrorist.


Cerberus is a black ops organisation. They are NOT terrorists. They are NOTHING LIKE terrorists AT ALL.

You mean outside the whole "working for the Reapers" thing?

Don't draw any conclusions yet. I first want to play ME3.

Cerberus might not be working with the reapers at all. And if they are indeed working with the reapers, they might actually want to keep it a secret (since secrecy is the key to every black operation). Maybe it's a secret that Cerberus works with the reapers, but Shepard finds out anyway?

Or maybe Cerberus is just being indoctrinated, which is why they do stuff they normally would never do, such as working with the Reapers in public.


Well, I could of course tell you why I think Cerberus works with the reapers based on the leaked script. But I doubt people would like it if I post spoilers from the leaked script here.


Anyway, Cerberus is NOT a terrorist organisation. Cerberus is a BLACK OPS organisation. 

Bioware has, multiple times, confirmed that Cerberus is indoctrinated. Ergo, working for the Reapers.

Was Saren really working for the Council?

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 22 janvier 2012 - 02:09 .

[AlexXIV]

TheCreeper wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

How is TIM a terrorist exactly?


I hate it how everyone (including BioWare themselves) are so eager to stick the label "terrorist" on Cerberus and everything that has to do with Cerberus without knowing what it truly means to be a terrorist.


Cerberus is a black ops organisation. They are not terrorists. They are nothing like terrorists at all.

As of ME3, they are.

Frankly from what I've seen of ME3 I would say they were more a paramilitary group trying to stage a coup.

If they are indoctrinated they are neither. Just victims. Because they have no free will if indoctrinated. Or at least not much of it left.

[1136342t54_]

Luc0s wrote...

That's because Paragon players try to turn TIM into something he isn't. They do it so they can justify their twisted and idealistic anti-Cerberus views.

The fact of the matter is, that "black ops organisation" is not to weak or a term to describe Cerberus. It's EXACTLY what Cerberus is.

I play Paragon at times and I really don't dislike Cerberus because I think they are terrorists. If they were, the amount of carnage they could have done to alien races would have screwed over the Alliance diplomatically.  No they just aren't as competent as they could be. Mostly due to idiot project leaders. The only time they get anything done is when TIM actually appoints someone not retarded or just plain evil. 

It just seems like lost potential. They would have done better if they had someone who doesn't believ his organization is the source of humanity and its power. TIM is pretty cool but sometimes his ego just gets massive.

[TheCreeper]

AlexXIV wrote...

TheCreeper wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

How is TIM a terrorist exactly?


I hate it how everyone (including BioWare themselves) are so eager to stick the label "terrorist" on Cerberus and everything that has to do with Cerberus without knowing what it truly means to be a terrorist.


Cerberus is a black ops organisation. They are not terrorists. They are nothing like terrorists at all.

As of ME3, they are.

Frankly from what I've seen of ME3 I would say they were more a paramilitary group trying to stage a coup.

If they are indoctrinated they are neither. Just victims. Because they have no free will if indoctrinated. Or at least not much of it left.

I don't believe they are personally.

[AgitatedLemon]

Luc0s wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Don't draw any conclusions yet. I first want to play ME3.

Cerberus might not be working with the reapers at all. And if they are indeed working with the reapers, they might actually want to keep it a secret (since secrecy is the key to every black operation). Maybe it's a secret that Cerberus works with the reapers, but Shepard finds out anyway?

Or maybe Cerberus is just being indoctrinated, which is why they do stuff they normally would never do, such as working with the Reapers in public.


Well, I could of course tell you why I think Cerberus works with the reapers based on the leaked script. But I doubt people would like it if I post spoilers from the leaked script here.


Anyway, Cerberus is NOT a terrorist organisation. Cerberus is a BLACK OPS organisation. 

Bioware has, multiple times, confirmed that Cerberus is indoctrinated. Ergo, working for the Reapers.

Just because most Cerberus agents are indoctrinated and thus the Reaper's puppets does not mean TIM is working for/with the Reapers (TIM = Cerberus, so).

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Was Saren really working for the Council?

No, Saren was working on his own from they very moment he discovered the Systems Alliance had discovered a mysterious and powerful A.I. artifact (Sovereign). Saren wanted the powerful artifact for himself (he believed he could use it as a weapon against humanity) and so he didn't inform the Council about it.

Are you intentionally missing the point, or are semantics your favorite counterpoints?

[AlexXIV]

1136342t54 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

That's because Paragon players try to turn TIM into something he isn't. They do it so they can justify their twisted and idealistic anti-Cerberus views.

The fact of the matter is, that "black ops organisation" is not to weak or a term to describe Cerberus. It's EXACTLY what Cerberus is.

I play Paragon at times and I really don't dislike Cerberus because I think they are terrorists. If they were, the amount of carnage they could have done to alien races would have screwed over the Alliance diplomatically.  No they just aren't as competent as they could be. Mostly due to idiot project leaders. The only time they get anything done is when TIM actually appoints someone not retarded or just plain evil. 

It just seems like lost potential. They would have done better if they had someone who doesn't believ his organization is the source of humanity and its power. TIM is pretty cool but sometimes his ego just gets massive.

Well or he wanted to cooperate with aliens but had to learn that they don't like to part with their secrets so he felt that he had no other choice than reckless experiments to catch up. Because I really think other species have their skeletons in the closet as well. For example Turians and Salarians. Not sure if the Asari research anything.

[Ryzaki]

@Blue: Yeah we're going in circles. When ME3 comes out I'll continue my discussion about why Legion could be trusted and why Cerberus couldn't.

[DJBare]

Luc0s wrote...
How is TIM a terrorist exactly?


I hate it how everyone (including BioWare themselves) are so eager to stick the label "terrorist" on Cerberus and everything that has to do with Cerberus without knowing what it truly means to be a terrorist.


Cerberus is a black ops organisation. They are NOT terrorists. They are NOTHING LIKE terrorists AT ALL.

Cerberus "was" a black ops, until they broke away, you should go back and play ME1

BTW, TIM was never going to be best buddies with Shepard, the whole idea is TIM(cerberus) has no problem betraying even those close to them.

[AlexXIV]

TheCreeper wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

TheCreeper wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

How is TIM a terrorist exactly?


I hate it how everyone (including BioWare themselves) are so eager to stick the label "terrorist" on Cerberus and everything that has to do with Cerberus without knowing what it truly means to be a terrorist.


Cerberus is a black ops organisation. They are not terrorists. They are nothing like terrorists at all.

As of ME3, they are.

Frankly from what I've seen of ME3 I would say they were more a paramilitary group trying to stage a coup.

If they are indoctrinated they are neither. Just victims. Because they have no free will if indoctrinated. Or at least not much of it left.

I don't believe they are personally.

Well I don't know either ...

[AgitatedLemon]

Luc0s wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Don't draw any conclusions yet. I first want to play ME3.

Cerberus might not be working with the reapers at all. And if they are indeed working with the reapers, they might actually want to keep it a secret (since secrecy is the key to every black operation). Maybe it's a secret that Cerberus works with the reapers, but Shepard finds out anyway?

Or maybe Cerberus is just being indoctrinated, which is why they do stuff they normally would never do, such as working with the Reapers in public.


Well, I could of course tell you why I think Cerberus works with the reapers based on the leaked script. But I doubt people would like it if I post spoilers from the leaked script here.


Anyway, Cerberus is NOT a terrorist organisation. Cerberus is a BLACK OPS organisation. 

Bioware has, multiple times, confirmed that Cerberus is indoctrinated. Ergo, working for the Reapers.

Just because most Cerberus agents are indoctrinated and thus the Reaper's puppets does not mean TIM is working for/with the Reapers (TIM = Cerberus, so).

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Was Saren really working for the Council?

No, Saren was working on his own from they very moment he discovered the Systems Alliance had discovered a mysterious and powerful A.I. artifact (Sovereign). Saren wanted the powerful artifact for himself (he believed he could use it as a weapon against humanity) and so he didn't inform the Council about it.

Are you intentionally missing the point, or are semantics your favorite counterpoints?

I guess I was missing the point, as I honestly have no idea why you brought Saren up in the first place.


What does Saren have to do with this discussion about Cerberus NOT being terrorists?

You say "Just because most Cerberus troops are indoctrinated doesn't mean TIM and the rest are". I used Saren as an example to show you how stupid you sound.

If TIM isn't indoctrinated, then why did he tolerate Grayson and Leng (Both of which are known to have Reaper tech embedded in them), when the Reaper tech alone has been shown numerous times to be able to indoctrinate people?