748 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Blue: Yeah we're going in circles. When ME3 comes out I'll continue my discussion about why Legion could be trusted and why Cerberus couldn't.

Oh no, I'm sure Legion is, in fact, telling the truth.  But what evidence does he have to support him?

[TheCreeper]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@Blue: Yeah we're going in circles. When ME3 comes out I'll continue my discussion about why Legion could be trusted and why Cerberus couldn't.

Oh no, I'm sure Legion is, in fact, telling the truth.  But what evidence does he have to support him?

The fact that Legion and the Truth geth barely understand organic life and emotions.

[AlexXIV]

TheCreeper wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@Blue: Yeah we're going in circles. When ME3 comes out I'll continue my discussion about why Legion could be trusted and why Cerberus couldn't.

Oh no, I'm sure Legion is, in fact, telling the truth.  But what evidence does he have to support him?

The fact that Legion and the Truth geth barely understand organic life and emotions.

Well but he probably understand the tactic of spreading wrong information to fool enemy intelligence.

[AgitatedLemon]

Luc0s wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

You say "Just because most Cerberus troops are indoctrinated doesn't mean TIM and the rest are". I used Saren as an example to show you how stupid you sound.

And how exactly does your Saren example prove your point? I still don't see your point. I still don't see how you link Saren to TIM and the indoctrinated Cerberus troops.

AgitatedLemon wrote...

If TIM isn't indoctrinated, then why did he tolerate Grayson and Leng (Both of which are known to have Reaper tech embedded in them), when the Reaper tech alone has been shown numerous times to be able to indoctrinate people?

What the hell are you talking about? Since when did TIM "tolerate" Grayson?

And since when does Leng have reaper tech in his body? He doesn't.

And the reason why TIM indoctrinates Grayson is to study the effects of indoctrination, to come up with a counter-measure. TIM was simply studying indoctrination.

How do you get from "studying indoctrination" to "TIM is indoctrinated"? TIM doesn't show any signs of indoctrination at all.


Gosh, have you actually paid ANY attention at all when reading the Mass Effect novels? I get the feeling you never even read them in the first place.

Saren: is indoctrinated; says he isn't
TIM: is indoctrinated; thinks/says he isn't.

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Kai Leng Concept.

[Dead Shizno]

to me ive always found cerb to be evil,not just from what i saw in mass effect2 but also what i found in me1 but what makes me the most mad at them and the main reason why i hate cerb most is what they did to david in project overlord,if your fine in watching some one hooked up like that then go play hello kitty for a bit please.

[AlexXIV]

Luc0s wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Luc0s wrote...
How is TIM a terrorist exactly?


I hate it how everyone (including BioWare themselves) are so eager to stick the label "terrorist" on Cerberus and everything that has to do with Cerberus without knowing what it truly means to be a terrorist.


Cerberus is a black ops organisation. They are NOT terrorists. They are NOTHING LIKE terrorists AT ALL.

Cerberus "was" a black ops, until they broke away, you should go back and play ME1

BTW, TIM was never going to be best buddies with Shepard, the whole idea is TIM(cerberus) has no problem betraying even those close to them.

They still are black ops.

And I actually finished the ME1 Cerberus quest-line today so everything is fresh in my memory.

And Cerberus never answered the the Alliance in the first place. I don't get it. Why do people think Cerberus at some point in the past answered to the Alliance? They never did.

Because they went rogue. Going rogue means to my understanding that you split from your legal parent organisation and now work on your own without any legal base. Mind you black ops are probably never really legal but they are linked to one, even if only inofficial. So their legal status may not change when they 'go rogue' but the people that used to protect them may not do so anymore. That's how I understand it anyway.

[BlueMagitek]

TheCreeper wrote...

The fact that Legion and the Truth geth barely understand organic life and emotions.

That... isn't evidence at all.  Where is the evidence of True Geth vs. Heretic Geth?  If there is a split, where is the evidence that the belief was over Sovereign?  

[Ryzaki]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@Blue: Yeah we're going in circles. When ME3 comes out I'll continue my discussion about why Legion could be trusted and why Cerberus couldn't.

Oh no, I'm sure Legion is, in fact, telling the truth.  But what evidence does he have to support him?

I never argued that Shep had proof that Legion was telling the truth merely that unlike TIM Legion gave my Shep no reason not to believe him.

That's it.

Meanwhile TIM lies about things that don't need to be lied about.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 janvier 2012 - 02:35 .

[mango smoothie]

The best written enemies are not ones that are evil, but just go against our ideals or plans. Making Cerberus a more gray enemy who goes against our plans will make a far better antagonist, then an evil antagonist.

[Ryzaki]

mrsph wrote...

You see, I never get why people say that the heretic geth are the only geth that attack people that enter into their space. Especially since, to our knowledge the split is a fairly recent thing for the geth.

That and they never bothered to warn the galaxy at large about the genocidal faction that is running around the galaxy.

Oh yes that would've gone over well. "Yo these guys that look JUST LIKE US are plotting to kill you all and worship the Reapers." that's assuming said geth to send the message isn't destroyed on sight for being an illegal AI.

Not to mention what reason do the geth have to give a damn what the heretics and organics do to each other? The heretics were like family to them while the only experience they had with organics was them trying to exterminate them. They just wanted to be left the hell alone.

I freely admit that the only reason I see Legion going to Shep was because the heretics (and Reapers) starting threatening their existence as well and really I can find no fault in that. It's not nice but it's perfectly understandable.

As for attacking, I'm inclined to think it was a mixture that plus there was a good chance no one entering the veil in the first place had pleasant intentions. (I.E. True Geth attacked in defense, Heretics attacked in offense). Plus I give them a few years of a defensive posture because their first lesson was that the "other" was trying to destroy them. It would've taken time for that to wear off especially since they had no one around but themselves. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 janvier 2012 - 02:45 .

[TheCreeper]

BlueMagitek wrote...

TheCreeper wrote...

The fact that Legion and the Truth geth barely understand organic life and emotions.

That... isn't evidence at all.  Where is the evidence of True Geth vs. Heretic Geth?  If there is a split, where is the evidence that the belief was over Sovereign?  

I don't think you understand Legion's loyalty mission, at all.

[1136342t54_]

AlexXIV wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

That's because Paragon players try to turn TIM into something he isn't. They do it so they can justify their twisted and idealistic anti-Cerberus views.

The fact of the matter is, that "black ops organisation" is not to weak or a term to describe Cerberus. It's EXACTLY what Cerberus is.

I play Paragon at times and I really don't dislike Cerberus because I think they are terrorists. If they were, the amount of carnage they could have done to alien races would have screwed over the Alliance diplomatically.  No they just aren't as competent as they could be. Mostly due to idiot project leaders. The only time they get anything done is when TIM actually appoints someone not retarded or just plain evil. 

It just seems like lost potential. They would have done better if they had someone who doesn't believ his organization is the source of humanity and its power. TIM is pretty cool but sometimes his ego just gets massive.

Well or he wanted to cooperate with aliens but had to learn that they don't like to part with their secrets so he felt that he had no other choice than reckless experiments to catch up. Because I really think other species have their skeletons in the closet as well. For example Turians and Salarians. Not sure if the Asari research anything.

Oh I'm sure they do have skeletons in the closet and Cerberus ideals (at least Miranda's view of them) aren't bad at all something I support. Even some of their experiments actually make sense but like I said Cerberus failures and the cause of them is what annoys me. They end up hiring too many xenophobes and usually have some rather retards or psychopaths leading their operations. Most of the time their failures comes with their science projects attempting to create supersoldiers or powerful AI. The failures can be attributed to a lack of oversight and bad choice in personnel.

Cerberus excels in many other things such as Assassination, intelligence gathering and sometimes politics.  They are just hit and miss when it comes to technological development and SCIENCE! Which is their main focus it seems and can easily cause the most harm to the galaxy. 

Now in ME3 so far from what I am seeing I think I could possibly like them. Cerberus being the enemy this time around never bothered me. I would actually be interested in seeing how competent of an enemy they are in this one. If they succeed in actually being a smart enemy in this one (so far there experiments seems to be succeeding) then I won't be as neutral to them as before. Plus the recent comic is showing that Cerberus still have some intelligent commanders and shows what Cerberus can do with a competent person in command.

[AlexXIV]

Luc0s wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Luc0s wrote...
How is TIM a terrorist exactly?


I hate it how everyone (including BioWare themselves) are so eager to stick the label "terrorist" on Cerberus and everything that has to do with Cerberus without knowing what it truly means to be a terrorist.


Cerberus is a black ops organisation. They are NOT terrorists. They are NOTHING LIKE terrorists AT ALL.

Cerberus "was" a black ops, until they broke away, you should go back and play ME1

BTW, TIM was never going to be best buddies with Shepard, the whole idea is TIM(cerberus) has no problem betraying even those close to them.

They still are black ops.

And I actually finished the ME1 Cerberus quest-line today so everything is fresh in my memory.

And Cerberus never answered the the Alliance in the first place. I don't get it. Why do people think Cerberus at some point in the past answered to the Alliance? They never did.

Because they went rogue. Going rogue means to my understanding that you split from your legal parent organisation and now work on your own without any legal base. Mind you black ops are probably never really legal but they are linked to one, even if only inofficial. So their legal status may not change when they 'go rogue' but the people that used to protect them may not do so anymore. That's how I understand it anyway.

Going rogue can also mean that the operation went out of control. When an operation goes rogue, it means the operation is out of control.

That's how "rogue" should be understood in ME1 when Kahoku tells Shepard "they've gone completely rogue".

Well if an experiment goes out of control, yes. TIM is out of control. Out of control of the Alliance or anyone. That means that before he went rogue he was under control of someone. Or not? Thing with black ops is they are not official to begin with. Meaning they operate where they shouldn't be and do what they shouldn't do. They have backup from the government as long as they don't screw up. If things go wrong the government will deny any connection and they will be treated as terrorists or mercenaries or assassins or whatever.

However the way I understand it TIM at some point decided that Alliance restrictions ... restrict him too much so he decided to remove all connections between Alliance and Cerberus that existed before. Or not?

[Eshaye]

Habs25 wrote...

I know better than the developers of the game! I SWEAR!

\\

LMAO! Well played, well played. 

I still adhere to the theory that Cereberus was always supposed to be in opposition to Shepard, the Alliance, the Council and somehow allied with the Reapers. 

But we shall see. 

[What a Succulent Ass]

I'm not sure about "always." They didn't have enough of a presence in ME1; ExoGeni was far more memorable.

My first time through:

Jacob: We work for Cerberus.
Me: ...Who the hell is Cerberus?

They were too faintly written in the first instalment.

[ShadyKat]

LOL
Cerberus is evil. If you'd played through ME1 and most of 2, you would know this.