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[1136342t54_]

Luc0s wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Oh I'm sure they do have skeletons in the closet and Cerberus ideals (at least Miranda's view of them) aren't bad at all something I support. Even some of their experiments actually make sense but like I said Cerberus failures and the cause of them is what annoys me. They end up hiring too many xenophobes and usually have some rather retards or psychopaths leading their operations. Most of the time their failures comes with their science projects attempting to create supersoldiers or powerful AI. The failures can be attributed to a lack of oversight and bad choice in personnel.

Cerberus excels in many other things such as Assassination, intelligence gathering and sometimes politics.  They are just hit and miss when it comes to technological development and SCIENCE! Which is their main focus it seems and can easily cause the most harm to the galaxy. 

Now in ME3 so far from what I am seeing I think I could possibly like them. Cerberus being the enemy this time around never bothered me. I would actually be interested in seeing how competent of an enemy they are in this one. If they succeed in actually being a smart enemy in this one (so far there experiments seems to be succeeding) then I won't be as neutral to them as before. Plus the recent comic is showing that Cerberus still have some intelligent commanders and shows what Cerberus can do with a competent person in command.

Well said. I completely 100% agree with this.


Bravo sir. You deserve a star. 

I definitely do deserve one. Preferably TIM's room also. Seriously say what you will about him but damn he has an awesome office.

[AlexXIV]

Luc0s wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well if an experiment goes out of control, yes. TIM is out of control. Out of control of the Alliance or anyone. That means that before he went rogue he was under control of someone. Or not? Thing with black ops is they are not official to begin with. Meaning they operate where they shouldn't be and do what they shouldn't do. They have backup from the government as long as they don't screw up. If things go wrong the government will deny any connection and they will be treated as terrorists or mercenaries or assassins or whatever.

Black ops organisations are not always backed by their respective governments. I know that Cerberus was never backed up by the Alliance, well, not directly anyway. The Alliance is in fact funding Cerberus, but they don't know that. Cerberus' legal representitive is Hislop Aerospace Industries. Hislop Aerospace is a legal Alliance organisation. What the Alliance doesn't know is that Hislop belongs to - and is controlled by Cerberus.

Also, some Alliance officials (secretively) donate money to Cerberus (or Hislop Aerospace) to fund Cerberus. The Allance government does not back up Cerberus, but that doesn't mean all Alliance personnel is against Cerberus.

AlexXIV wrote...

However the way I understand it TIM at some point decided that Alliance restrictions ... restrict him too much so he decided to remove all connections between Alliance and Cerberus that existed before. Or not?

Nope. As I explained above, Cerberus still has connections with the Alliance through their personal donators and through Hislop Aerospace Industries.

So where does the 'they went rogue' part come from? If it is only about their experiments failing and causing trouble they would have worded it differently. It really sounds as if they once 'belonged' to the Alliance and then split. Dunno why Bioware word it like that then. It is quite misleading tbh.

[OmegaBlue0231]

1136342t54 wrote...
Plus the recent comic is showing that Cerberus still have some intelligent commanders and shows what Cerberus can do with a competent person in command.

You mean almost get taken out thanks to the leadership of someone better (Aria) and having to resort to threatening to blow up Omega?

[1136342t54_]

OmegaBlue0231 wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...
Plus the recent comic is showing that Cerberus still have some intelligent commanders and shows what Cerberus can do with a competent person in command.

You mean almost get taken out thanks to the leadership of someone better (Aria) and having to resort to threatening to blow up Omega?

Oh yeah because nearly being beaten by someone who has centuries of military and leadership experience is a sign of weakness. /sarcasm

From what I read from a summary of the novels it seems that Aria was the only reason why Omega didn't fall as quickly as it did. Even then the General had a large enough advantage that he was able to make a deal to not only get Omega but not kill any civilians unnecessarily. It seems like another Cerberus officer was acting like typical douche (like many Cerberus operatives it seems) and didn't give a **** about civillians or saving his own troops. 

I'm not saying the General is brilliant but he wasn't a pants on head retard or evil ****. That is basically the best you can ask from Cerberus.

[OmegaBlue0231]

1136342t54 wrote...

OmegaBlue0231 wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...
Plus the recent comic is showing that Cerberus still have some intelligent commanders and shows what Cerberus can do with a competent person in command.

You mean almost get taken out thanks to the leadership of someone better (Aria) and having to resort to threatening to blow up Omega?

Oh yeah because nearly being beaten by someone who has centuries of military and leadership experience is a sign of weakness. /sarcasm

From what I read from a summary of the novels it seems that Aria was the only reason why Omega didn't fall as quickly as it did. Even then the General had a large enough advantage that he was able to make a deal to not only get Omega but not kill any civilians unnecessarily. It seems like another Cerberus officer was acting like typical douche (like many Cerberus operatives it seems) and didn't give a **** about civillians or saving his own troops. 

I'm not saying the General is brilliant but he wasn't a pants on head retard or evil ****. That is basically the best you can ask from Cerberus.

I will agree with you that he was better than most of the morons you encounter in Cerberus.

[1136342t54_]

Luc0s wrote...

Yeah. In the books they say he build that office simply for the sake of impressing those who deal with him. 

You can say what you want, but I think that's friggin' awesome.  

Later, when I'm head of my own game-design industry (I'm a game-design student right now), I also want an office in front of the sun so I can impress those who have to deal with me. 

Plus it seems he can manipulate the color of the sun whenever he wants. Best office ever.

[didymos1120]

Luc0s wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Honestly, it feels like the books, games, and comics all inhabit a different universe.

I can understand why you feel that. That's because the books, games and comics are all written by different people.

Mass Effect 1 and the first 3 books are written by Drew Karpyshyn.

Mass Effect 2 and 3 are written by Mac Walters.

No, ME1 was not written by Drew Karpyshyn.  It was written by him and a bunch of other people.  Same for ME2 and ME3.  "Lead Writer" =/= "Author". 

[AlexXIV]

Luc0s wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Honestly, it feels like the books, games, and comics all inhabit a different universe.

I can understand why you feel that. That's because the books, games and comics are all written by different people.

Mass Effect 1 and the first 3 books are written by Drew Karpyshyn.

Mass Effect 2 and 3 are written by Mac Walters.

And the comics and a bunch of other stuff are all written by other people.



I do see everything from Mass Effect as part of one whole universe. But I can't help myself from scratching my head at some of the retcons and inconsistencies sometimes.

Well if you are going to make games you better impress us by making good ones or I will rage on your forum like on this one.

[BlueMagitek]

Ryzaki wrote...

I never argued that Shep had proof that Legion was telling the truth merely that unlike TIM Legion gave my Shep no reason not to believe him.

That's it.

Meanwhile TIM lies about things that don't need to be lied about.

Except the mountain of pre-existing evidence and not shooting Shepard when he had the chance. Which, really, doesn't make a person all that trustworthy.  I haven't hunted any humans, but that doesn't mean you should trust me off the bat.  Legion may not give you any reason to not believe him, but there is already existing evidence that points that there is no reason to believe him.

If you're referring to Liara, she technically was working with the Shadowbroker.  Or did you not do her mission? 

[HiroVoid]

He didn't tell me how he got my armor. That's how Legion was untrustworthy.

[AlexXIV]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I never argued that Shep had proof that Legion was telling the truth merely that unlike TIM Legion gave my Shep no reason not to believe him.

That's it.

Meanwhile TIM lies about things that don't need to be lied about.

Except the mountain of pre-existing evidence and not shooting Shepard when he had the chance. Which, really, doesn't make a person all that trustworthy.  I haven't hunted any humans, but that doesn't mean you should trust me off the bat.  Legion may not give you any reason to not believe him, but there is already existing evidence that points that there is no reason to believe him.

If you're referring to Liara, she technically was working with the Shadowbroker.  Or did you not do her mission? 

She's an LI. That's all you need to know really. In Bioware games LIs=reliable. Even Bastila was, in the end.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 22 janvier 2012 - 03:25 .

[BlueMagitek]

HiroVoid wrote...

He didn't tell me how he got my armor. That's how Legion was untrustworthy.

Eh, probably space-jello wrestled it away from Liara, who has the rest of it. 

[Ryzaki]

BlueMagitek wrote...
Except the mountain of pre-existing evidence and not shooting Shepard when he had the chance. Which, really, doesn't make a person all that trustworthy.  I haven't hunted any humans, but that doesn't mean you should trust me off the bat.  Legion may not give you any reason to not believe him, but there is already existing evidence that points that there is no reason to believe him.

If you're referring to Liara, she technically was working with the Shadowbroker.  Or did you not do her mission? 

What pre-existing evidence? If what he's saying about the heretics is true everything is explainable. Heretics obviously didn't come about until Reapers came into contact and thus no geth openly attacked organics (outside self defense and we have no idea what happened beyond the veil.) for 300 years until Sovie started revealing himself. Otherwise they just wanted to be left the hell alone (and them not bothering anyone for 300 years supports this). 

Trust you completely off the bat?  Nope but if you save my life (which Legion did. If Legion didn't let down that gate Shep would've been stuck there until the Reaper fell into the brown dwarf) and ask me for help yeah I'm gonna give you some trust. Like my Shep did for TIM. But unlike Legion TIM betrayed Shep's trust time and time again.

...Uh no no she wasn't at all. The Shadow Broker was SPYING on her. And yes I did do her mission. TIM's just an idiot. He should've known damn well Liara wasn't working with the Shadow Broker since you know...he was aware that she and the SB were fighting over Shep's body! (not face to face of course). He's either a liar or a moron.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 janvier 2012 - 03:33 .

[BlueMagitek]

AlexXIV wrote...

She's an LI. That's all you need to know really. In Bioware games LIs=reliable. Even Bastila was, in the end.

The only reason Morrigan is reliable is because my dog likes her.

And... I haven't tried it, but won't Leliana still fight you, even if romanced, at the Urn if you don't Bardify her?

But let's remember for a moment that Shepard is not a space Malkavian and isn't aware of the future nor is he Kreia and aware he's in a video game.

[BlueMagitek]

Ryzaki wrote...

What pre-existing evidence? If what he's saying about the heretics is true everything is explainable.

Trust you off the bat?  Nope but if you save my life (which Legion did) and ask me for help yeah I'm gonna give you some trust.

...Uh no no she wasn't at all. The Shadow Broker was SPYING on her. And yes I did do her mission.

The Geth kill everyone who enters their territory (and attempts to make contact with them or just get caught passing through), they've made no official contact with the outside world (aside from social experiments) for 300 years until they came out of nowhere and attacked Eden Prime, no ambassador, no official statements about wanting to be left alone, nothing.  Then, you find they've allied themselves with the Sovvy, Shepard, of all people, knows this.  Now a lone, talkative Geth appears, blames ME 1 and past atrocities on an apparently seperate faction of Geth, which you have no way of confirming or denying.  That these apparent True Geth have done nothing over the years is highly suspicious.

You've clearly never rolled a neutral evil character. 

She was working directly with an agent of the Shadow Broker, who had nothing but compliments for her. 

[AlexXIV]

BlueMagitek wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

She's an LI. That's all you need to know really. In Bioware games LIs=reliable. Even Bastila was, in the end.

The only reason Morrigan is reliable is because my dog likes her.

And... I haven't tried it, but won't Leliana still fight you, even if romanced, at the Urn if you don't Bardify her?

But let's remember for a moment that Shepard is not a space Malkavian and isn't aware of the future nor is he Kreia and aware he's in a video game.

Well even if Shep isn't aware, he's in love.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

What pre-existing evidence? If what he's saying about the heretics is true everything is explainable. Heretics obviously didn't come about until Reapers came into contact and thus no geth openly attacked organics (outside self defense and we have no idea what happened beyond the veil.) for 300 years until Sovie started revealing himself. Otherwise they just wanted to be left the hell alone (and them not bothering anyone for 300 years supports this). 

Everything is explainable only if you presume what he says is true. Why you should presume that, however, needs to surpass 'did not kill me at the time.'

Trust you completely off the bat?  Nope but if you save my life (which Legion did. If Legion didn't let down that gate Shep would've been stuck there until the Reaper fell into the brown dwarf) and ask me for help yeah I'm gonna give you some trust. Like my Shep did for TIM. But unlike Legion TIM betrayed Shep's trust time and time again.

This ignores that Legion could have ulterior motives for lowering the gate (Legion's own prospective escape), as well as the possibility of some other form of bypass. Legion got in, after all.

...Uh no no she wasn't at all. The Shadow Broker was SPYING on her. And yes I did do her mission. TIM's just an idiot. He should've known damn well Liara wasn't working with the Shadow Broker since you know...he was aware that she and the SB were fighting over Shep's body! (not face to face of course). He's either a liar or a moron.

False delimma, even false representation. He makes no position what he believes, only what others have told him.

[Ryzaki]

BlueMagitek wrote...
The Geth kill everyone who enters their territory (and attempts to make contact with them or just get caught passing through), they've made no official contact with the outside world (aside from social experiments) for 300 years until they came out of nowhere and attacked Eden Prime, no ambassador, no official statements about wanting to be left alone, nothing.  Then, you find they've allied themselves with the Sovvy, Shepard, of all people, knows this.  Now a lone, talkative Geth appears, blames ME 1 and past atrocities on an apparently seperate faction of Geth, which you have no way of confirming or denying.  That these apparent True Geth have done nothing over the years is highly suspicious.

And what makes you think that anyone who entered said territory was peaceful? 

Heretics attacked Eden Prime and frankly the fact that they attacked out of nowhere IS suspicious as hell and would make me think *something* had to change/set them off. The heretics make sense for my Shep. Maybe they don't for yours but it makes sense to mine. And this is going in circles. You think it's suspicious, I think it makes sense and until Legion gives me a reason to disbelieve him I'll believe him.

You've clearly never rolled a neutral evil character. 

She was working directly with an agent of the Shadow Broker, who had nothing but compliments for her. 

...I have actually. Cute though. I know my neutral evil characters didn't lie unless they had to and tended to keep their secrets very close to their chest.

You're really trying to say that TIM knew Liara's assistant was a SB operative but didn't know Liara was hunting down the SB? You're really going with that arguement? <_<

@Dean: Like I said. TIM has no reason to be saying Liara's working with the SB unless he's a liar or a woefully misinformed moron who doesn't bother thinking things through. And I already answered those bits about Legion.

And frankly I'm done on this subject. Too much agitation on something silly.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 janvier 2012 - 03:42 .

[AlexXIV]

Well we don't know if Legion lied to us. He still has benefit of doubt. TIM though lied to us before even if only for his trap to work. Anyway, I think Legion would also hold back information to protect his hub. Like he wanted to transmit data without asking Shepard first when Tali caught him.