748 réponses à ce sujet

[What a Succulent Ass]

Hilariously, TIM was responsible for Horizon.

[Homebound]

you do realize Bioware made Cerberus up right? If the guys who made the game says Cerberus is evil..Then maybe..Just maybe..They might be on to something.

[Giantdeathrobot]

As I see it, the problem is that Bioware simply doesn't seem to know what to do with Cerberus. In ME1 they are the generic evil group that inflicts evil Science! upon others, which while shallow allows you to add side-quests easily. in ME2 they are given characters, a charismatic (if nothing else) leader and generally went from ''lolol generic evilness'' to ''attempt at moral grayness''. But the attempt pretty much failed, as supporting Cerberus just meansyou deliver a Reaper super-weapon in the hands of an organisation that had an extremely poor streak while experimenting with such things, and is just plain incompetent in genral when Shepard isin't involved. And then ME3 rolls around and, lo and behold, they are back to geing generic evilness. The oddball seems to be ME2 here, another group should have been used to fill the ''Alliance except not'' void now that the Council hates Shepard for some reason.

To be clear, I don't like Bioware's treatment of Cerberus (trying to make them sympathetic was doomed from the start because of their history), but that doesn't mean I approve of Cerberus' agenda or methods. They can continue to kill and torture people (including their own goddamn autistic brothers, how sick in the head must one be?) playing with syringues pretending it's all for a nebulous and conveniently vague ''greater good'' and champion ''human dominance'', my Shepard will do the actually important stuff like, you know, actually opposing the murderous mecha-chtulus who come to turn us into grey goo for fun and profit.

[seirhart]

I disagree cereberus has alway been evil, in ME 2 T.I.M put people with shepard to make cereberus look good for shepard. Then T.I.M probably didn't tell you the truth in all of you're conversatitons with him including in his emails.

[Phaedon]

HiroVoid wrote...

 

I know that artstyle. 

It's everywhere in North Korea.

Modifié par Phaedon, 22 janvier 2012 - 10:24 .

[MAZ77]

Armass81 wrote...


*Spoilers*

Oh yeah about that nice Cerberus you see in ME2...

You come across the knowledge that TIM was using Shepard all along, no matter how renegade he was. Lazarus cell and the ship was a nice smokescreen set up just for Shepard so s/he would feel comfortable. She did see through it tough, at least the paragons did.

Are you sure? Because the spoiler leaks make it look like Shepard is rather surprised to find Cerberus turning on him and working for the Reapers.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Given the quality of the main plot, did you really epxect everything to hold water?Already there's plenty of things that make little sense - I wouldn't surprised if there were re-writes and changes an mis-communications with the comic writers and such.

TIM meeting Liara in person? He doesn't evne meet Shepard in person.
Frankly, you could proably file any inconsistency and WTF moment with Bioware not caring to check or writers not doing the research.

[MAZ77]

seirhart wrote...

I disagree cereberus has alway been evil, in ME 2 T.I.M put people with shepard to make cereberus look good for shepard. Then T.I.M probably didn't tell you the truth in all of you're conversatitons with him including in his emails.

We will never know whether or not TIM was purely evil all along, because...(Spoiler)...


SPOILER 


SPOILER 


SPOILER


SEVERE SPOILERS AHEAD!


Don't you understand? TIM is INDOCTRINATED, most of Cerberus defected when TIM got indoctrinated, now TIM has build himself an army of semi-Husks delivered to him by Miranda's father, who is abducting refugees and indoctrinating/huskifying them.

Since TIM is indoctrinated, we will never know if TIM was only pretending to Shepard or not.

Modifié par MAZ77, 22 janvier 2012 - 11:21 .

[Armass81]

MAZ77 wrote...

Armass81 wrote...


*Spoilers*

Oh yeah about that nice Cerberus you see in ME2...

You come across the knowledge that TIM was using Shepard all along, no matter how renegade he was. Lazarus cell and the ship was a nice smokescreen set up just for Shepard so s/he would feel comfortable. She did see through it tough, at least the paragons did.

Are you sure? Because the spoiler leaks make it look like Shepard is rather surprised to find Cerberus turning on him and working for the Reapers.

Anybody would be surprised to learn a human organization starts working with the reapers, i doubt even paragon shepard expected that even if they didnt trust Cerberus. He probably starts to think theyre indoctrinated.

He even says it during Sur'Kesh "theyre indoctrinated, theyre capable of anything."

What Im basing that untrust is the paragon dialogue in ME2 " Im not working for them, We have similar goals, so im working with them. I fully expect them to betray us at some point."

Modifié par Armass81, 22 janvier 2012 - 11:16 .

[Armass81]

MAZ77 wrote...

seirhart wrote...

I disagree cereberus has alway been evil, in ME 2 T.I.M put people with shepard to make cereberus look good for shepard. Then T.I.M probably didn't tell you the truth in all of you're conversatitons with him including in his emails.

We will never know whether or not TIM was purely evil all along, because...(Spoiler)...

Snip

Since TIM is indoctrinated, we will never know if TIM was only pretending to Shepard or not.

Put better spoiler tags on that. It's a pretty big one.

[MAZ77]

Armass81 wrote...

MAZ77 wrote...

seirhart wrote...

I disagree cereberus has alway been evil, in ME 2 T.I.M put people with shepard to make cereberus look good for shepard. Then T.I.M probably didn't tell you the truth in all of you're conversatitons with him including in his emails.

We will never know whether or not TIM was purely evil all along, because...(Spoiler)...

Snip

Since TIM is indoctrinated, we will never know if TIM was only pretending to Shepard or not.

Put better spoiler tags on that. It's a pretty big one.

How do you make it "highlightable"?

Please tell me.

Thanks.

[Armass81]

MAZ77 wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

MAZ77 wrote...

seirhart wrote...

I disagree cereberus has alway been evil, in ME 2 T.I.M put people with shepard to make cereberus look good for shepard. Then T.I.M probably didn't tell you the truth in all of you're conversatitons with him including in his emails.

We will never know whether or not TIM was purely evil all along, because...(Spoiler)...

Snip

Since TIM is indoctrinated, we will never know if TIM was only pretending to Shepard or not.

Put better spoiler tags on that. It's a pretty big one.

How do you make it "highlightable"?

Please tell me.

Thanks.

I dont know how to hide it either, sorry. I usually just put the spoilers in caps and leave plenty of room under it so people know to avoid the text. Deosnt always work tough.

Modifié par Armass81, 22 janvier 2012 - 11:17 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Ryzaki wrote...
I never argued that Shep had proof that Legion was telling the truth merely that unlike TIM Legion gave my Shep no reason not to believe him.

That's it.

Meanwhile TIM lies about things that don't need to be lied about.

According to whom?

What if I say it was prudent for him to not tell you everything? What then?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

As I see it, the problem is that Bioware simply doesn't seem to know what to do with Cerberus. In ME1 they are the generic evil group that inflicts evil Science! upon others, which while shallow allows you to add side-quests easily. in ME2 they are given characters, a charismatic (if nothing else) leader and generally went from ''lolol generic evilness'' to ''attempt at moral grayness''. But the attempt pretty much failed, as supporting Cerberus just meansyou deliver a Reaper super-weapon in the hands of an organisation that had an extremely poor streak while experimenting with such things, and is just plain incompetent in genral when Shepard isin't involved. And then ME3 rolls around and, lo and behold, they are back to geing generic evilness. The oddball seems to be ME2 here, another group should have been used to fill the ''Alliance except not'' void now that the Council hates Shepard for some reason.

To be clear, I don't like Bioware's treatment of Cerberus (trying to make them sympathetic was doomed from the start because of their history), but that doesn't mean I approve of Cerberus' agenda or methods. They can continue to kill and torture people (including their own goddamn autistic brothers, how sick in the head must one be?) playing with syringues pretending it's all for a nebulous and conveniently vague ''greater good'' and champion ''human dominance'', my Shepard will do the actually important stuff like, you know, actually opposing the murderous mecha-chtulus who come to turn us into grey goo for fun and profit.

I disagree wiht every single thing thar.

Except for the fact that Bioware doesn't seem to know what it wants or where it's going. And that TIM is charismatic.

[MAZ77]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Except for the fact that Bioware doesn't seem to know what it wants or where it's going.

Very true.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And that TIM is charismatic.

What makes turning TIM into a laughably cartoonish bad guy all the more lamentable.


Darth Vader was evil, too. But one hell of a villain.

Modifié par MAZ77, 22 janvier 2012 - 11:27 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

TankingTick wrote...

Cerberus has as much good intentions as any religious group. Indoctrination = creationism.

You trying to start a religious flame war again?
Seriously, what is your problem?

[Nohvarr]

Let's take a look at TIM's record. While under his control cerberus has been

planting Dragon's Teeth onto out-of-the-way colony worlds to observe the effects. They were sending out Rachnai into areas garrisoned with Alliance military personnel just to observe how the Rachnai fight. They planted fake distress beacons in the middle of Thresher nests just to gather data on them, at the expense of two entire companies of soldiers. They assassinated Admiral Kohaku and threw his body into a pen filled with husks just for the hell of it. They injected the acid venom of a Maw into a marine's blood "to see what would happen."

Then of course there is Jack and all the children that died to create her.

To be fair they toned down the rampent evil in ME 2 but that was likely for the commanders benefit. Now that the Collector crisis has passed, it's back to business as usual.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 22 janvier 2012 - 11:45 .

[legion999]

TankingTick wrote...

Cerberus has as much good intentions as any religious group. Indoctrination = creationism.

No.

[Nohvarr]

Just ignore the attempt at starting a flame war.

[LTiberious]

How does BW explain the fact that Cerberus is "evil" in ME3, and Why you couldnt find that out in ME2?

Because they manipulated you! Yeeeessss. For several billion credits they manipulated shep to save human lives (the bastards).

[LPPrince]

LTiberious wrote...

How does BW explain the fact that Cerberus is "evil" in ME3, and Why you couldnt find that out in ME2?

Because they manipulated you! Yeeeessss. For several billion credits they manipulated shep to save human lives (the bastards).

They never stopped being evil.

ME1- Working to defeat evil.
ME2- Working with evil to defeat the greater evil.
ME3- Working to defeat the ultimate evil.

[Nohvarr]

You were kind of busy in ME 2. Yes, you suspected Cerberus wasn't on the up and up, but the primary threat was that posed by the Collectors and their masters. Cerberus could wait until that problem was solved.

[LTiberious]

LPPrince wrote...

LTiberious wrote...

How does BW explain the fact that Cerberus is "evil" in ME3, and Why you couldnt find that out in ME2?

Because they manipulated you! Yeeeessss. For several billion credits they manipulated shep to save human lives (the bastards).

They never stopped being evil.

ME1- Working to defeat evil.
ME2- Working with evil to defeat the greater evil.
ME3- Working to defeat the ultimate evil.

Xenophobia isnt "evil". 

And how are they working with evil in Me2?